TRT advise needed 26yo

Stantheman85

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I have been feeling exhausted all the time, no amount of sleep was ever enough, noticing more fat gain in the mid-section, etc so I decided it was time to check my T levels.
I went to a TRT clinic because they were able to get me in next-day. I don’t have the full panel details yet, I will receive it next Wednesday, but my T levels came back at 282.....

My current stats are:
26 years old
6’3”
195lb
Fairly lean
I have done 3 prohormone cycles, with the last being about ~4 years ago. Yes, I am aware of the level of ignorance and stupidity.

26 is way too young to get on TRT. I have another blood test next Wednesday. I have increased my zinc, magnesium and a couple other supps to see if I can naturally boost it for now, even if that means I can delays TRT by 5-10 years. (I know it won’t spike over night, but even an improvement in a week will give me some hope)

At this point, I am just looking for advice and the best alternative ways to increase my natural test.

Thank you for reading.
 

Stantheman85

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Are you training? If so how much?
Alchohol?
Not like I was up until the end of April. I went oversees most of May and haven’t been able to get back on track. I think I’ve trained ~6 times this month. Bought a new PO to try to give me more energy in the gym.

No alcohol either, last time I drank was 2 beers on the 4th.
 

Ase_james

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The dr might try a reset of some sort, but not a try clinic, they will push try. If you want to try to avoid it see a dr too
 

Stantheman85

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Appreciate it sir.

That’s what I’ve been thinking. I am getting tested again on Wednesday so we will see where I’m at. In the meantime, I will try to find a trusted endo in the area and get a second opinion.
 
Ynn3kc1

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Always get a copy of your bloodwork. I went to my primary with low t symptoms at 32y/o and after some negotiating he tested my blood, full lipid and metabolic, but he will only test my tt, which at the time was 163 ng/dl. Which I'm guessing you've done some research about necessary bloodwork and tt, while I guess is a quick broad stroke test just to get some idea is no where near enough info to really set up a treatment plan, he was adamant about starting me on the daily but the absorption rate % is low and I live with three women and one of my two sisters has twins so I can't risk possible physical contact with the cream, after much back and forth he decided to just give me an injection of 200mgs cyp every four weeks! Needless to say after week 2, or sooner, I learned about the hormonal rollercoaster. After several months I was able to get him to give me 200mg every three weeks and inject it myself, which still sucked. He won't test anything but total t. no e2, free t, lh, fsh, etc. so he doesn't give me an ai, hmb, or even address anything else unless I bring it up then he tries to make me feel stupid for asking. 3 months ago I got a result of 620 or so. still not ample. still had symptoms he said to try injecting 100ng every other week, which I had already started doing. I looked up the half life which is 8 days so I now inject a third of the 200mg every week, which helped my symptoms and the rollercoaster effect. I got blood results this week. he came in and "Everything is great", no paperwork or anything. So afterwards I said ok I just want a copy of my paperwork, which he obviously didn't want to give me obviously, he even said, " you dont trust me " I said I just like to keep good records. he told the nurse to go ahead and he walked on to another patient, well I got the blood drawn the day before my weekly injection and my total t was 160, lower than ever. my triglycerides were high ldl high hdl low and a few other issues. I asked if he would check my free t, and he said, "it's the same thing". I wanted to tell him he doesn't know what the hell hes talking about. unfortunately I can't afford the trt clinic right now plus I know one of my prescriptions I've been one for a few years which I'm coming off hopefully in the next few months, he says that once I do the low t won't be a problem anymore, somehow I dont believe him. Anyway I'm just saying if you can afford it. Do your research and really find at least an endocrinologist or a highly reviewed trt specialist not just trying to sell you something. Good luck, I hope it works out well for you. And always get a copy of your paperwork. It's more than just making it within the ridiculously broad acceptable range, really pay attention to how you feel day to day. So it's easier to talk to which ever doc you choose.
 
jdwaca

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I have been feeling exhausted all the time, no amount of sleep was ever enough, noticing more fat gain in the mid-section, etc so I decided it was time to check my T levels.
I went to a TRT clinic because they were able to get me in next-day. I don’t have the full panel details yet, I will receive it next Wednesday, but my T levels came back at 282.....

My current stats are:
26 years old
6’3”
195lb
Fairly lean
I have done 3 prohormone cycles, with the last being about ~4 years ago. Yes, I am aware of the level of ignorance and stupidity.

26 is way too young to get on TRT. I have another blood test next Wednesday. I have increased my zinc, magnesium and a couple other supps to see if I can naturally boost it for now, even if that means I can delays TRT by 5-10 years. (I know it won’t spike over night, but even an improvement in a week will give me some hope)

At this point, I am just looking for advice and the best alternative ways to increase my natural test.

Thank you for reading.
I’d go to a specialist. Fertility doctor for example. They might be able to get you on an HCG/clomid regimen. I’ve had 2 friends go that route and it worked for them. They were in a similar situation and wanted to avoid TRT. Their levels more than doubled.
 

CatSnake

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I have been feeling exhausted all the time, no amount of sleep was ever enough, noticing more fat gain in the mid-section, etc so I decided it was time to check my T levels.
I went to a TRT clinic because they were able to get me in next-day. I don’t have the full panel details yet, I will receive it next Wednesday, but my T levels came back at 282.....

My current stats are:
26 years old
6’3”
195lb
Fairly lean
I have done 3 prohormone cycles, with the last being about ~4 years ago. Yes, I am aware of the level of ignorance and stupidity.

26 is way too young to get on TRT. I have another blood test next Wednesday. I have increased my zinc, magnesium and a couple other supps to see if I can naturally boost it for now, even if that means I can delays TRT by 5-10 years. (I know it won’t spike over night, but even an improvement in a week will give me some hope)

At this point, I am just looking for advice and the best alternative ways to increase my natural test.

Thank you for reading.
did you do a PCT after the prohormones?

I agree about looking into clomid, as well as full bloodwork. it's unlikely that your estrogen (E2) is very high, but you need to see where your LH and FSH are at to figure out a possible cause of the low T.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288103-info-serms.html

^here's some info on clomid/SERMs.


FWIW, I tried for years to restart my HPTA with ZMA, vit D and clomid. I was able to raise my levels while I was on clomid, but as soon as I came off they dropped back down. I'm on TRT now and am very happy with the results.



.
 
The Matrix

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Any changes in job career, relationship, family issues, lifestyle, location of where you live, work or play? Have you traveled out side to any 3rd world countries?

Can not build a mansion with out a strong foundation other wise it will crumble ..

With out proper history, symptoms and labs it just becomes a guessing game which is biggest issue in medicine. Doctors hear they do not often listen
 

Stantheman85

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Always get a copy of your bloodwork. I went to my primary with low t symptoms at 32y/o and after some negotiating he tested my blood, full lipid and metabolic, but he will only test my tt, which at the time was 163 ng/dl. Which I'm guessing you've done some research about necessary bloodwork and tt, while I guess is a quick broad stroke test just to get some idea is no where near enough info to really set up a treatment plan, he was adamant about starting me on the daily but the absorption rate % is low and I live with three women and one of my two sisters has twins so I can't risk possible physical contact with the cream, after much back and forth he decided to just give me an injection of 200mgs cyp every four weeks! Needless to say after week 2, or sooner, I learned about the hormonal rollercoaster. After several months I was able to get him to give me 200mg every three weeks and inject it myself, which still sucked. He won't test anything but total t. no e2, free t, lh, fsh, etc. so he doesn't give me an ai, hmb, or even address anything else unless I bring it up then he tries to make me feel stupid for asking. 3 months ago I got a result of 620 or so. still not ample. still had symptoms he said to try injecting 100ng every other week, which I had already started doing. I looked up the half life which is 8 days so I now inject a third of the 200mg every week, which helped my symptoms and the rollercoaster effect. I got blood results this week. he came in and "Everything is great", no paperwork or anything. So afterwards I said ok I just want a copy of my paperwork, which he obviously didn't want to give me obviously, he even said, " you dont trust me " I said I just like to keep good records. he told the nurse to go ahead and he walked on to another patient, well I got the blood drawn the day before my weekly injection and my total t was 160, lower than ever. my triglycerides were high ldl high hdl low and a few other issues. I asked if he would check my free t, and he said, "it's the same thing". I wanted to tell him he doesn't know what the hell hes talking about. unfortunately I can't afford the trt clinic right now plus I know one of my prescriptions I've been one for a few years which I'm coming off hopefully in the next few months, he says that once I do the low t won't be a problem anymore, somehow I dont believe him. Anyway I'm just saying if you can afford it. Do your research and really find at least an endocrinologist or a highly reviewed trt specialist not just trying to sell you something. Good luck, I hope it works out well for you. And always get a copy of your paperwork. It's more than just making it within the ridiculously broad acceptable range, really pay attention to how you feel day to day. So it's easier to talk to which ever doc you choose.
Thank you, I hope you’re situation gets better as well! I will make sure I get a copy of the paperwork.
 

Stantheman85

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I’d go to a specialist. Fertility doctor for example. They might be able to get you on an HCG/clomid regimen. I’ve had 2 friends go that route and it worked for them. They were in a similar situation and wanted to avoid TRT. Their levels more than doubled.
Will definitely look into this. Were your two friends a similar age when they did the regiment?
 

Stantheman85

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did you do a PCT after the prohormones?

I agree about looking into clomid, as well as full bloodwork. it's unlikely that your estrogen (E2) is very high, but you need to see where your LH and FSH are at to figure out a possible cause of the low T.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288103-info-serms.html

^here's some info on clomid/SERMs.


FWIW, I tried for years to restart my HPTA with ZMA, vit D and clomid. I was able to raise my levels while I was on clomid, but as soon as I came off they dropped back down. I'm on TRT now and am very happy with the results.



.
I did for the last two, but I bought the first one at a store in the area and was also sold an otc pct that I thought would work....

I’m really hoping I can get to the bottom of this and at least delay the TRT. How old were you when you started TRT?
 

Stantheman85

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Any changes in job career, relationship, family issues, lifestyle, location of where you live, work or play? Have you traveled out side to any 3rd world countries?

Can not build a mansion with out a strong foundation other wise it will crumble ..

With out proper history, symptoms and labs it just becomes a guessing game which is biggest issue in medicine. Doctors hear they do not often listen
I changed jobs at the beginning of May, but that was my doing. I’ve had some family/ relationship issues lately and a death in the family, I know that is definitely part of the problem, but I was feeling this way (not to the same degree) for a while now. The fam/relationship issues have gotten better, I’m trying to reduce stress in my life as well. Plus trying to eat more greens and reduce gluten.

I will post the labs when I receive them.
 

CatSnake

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I did for the last two, but I bought the first one at a store in the area and was also sold an otc pct that I thought would work....

I’m really hoping I can get to the bottom of this and at least delay the TRT. How old were you when you started TRT?
41.... no desire for kids either, so fertility is not an issue. however, I suspect I was low for maybe 10 years or so before finally getting on TRT.....
 
The Matrix

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I changed jobs at the beginning of May, but that was my doing. I’ve had some family/ relationship issues lately and a death in the family, I know that is definitely part of the problem, but I was feeling this way (not to the same degree) for a while now. The fam/relationship issues have gotten better, I’m trying to reduce stress in my life as well. Plus trying to eat more greens and reduce gluten.

I will post the labs when I receive them.
What is typically seen is one may have health issues, but one event was enough to push you over putting the icing on the cake despite things getting better. Psychiatrist evalutes how you are now, but not biologically if your glass had already tipped....
 

Stantheman85

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Got my labs today plus a second total test check.

Total test came back at 312 today.

Test results from my first visit:
TT 282
Free test: 6.16 ng/DL
Shbg: 23.4 (16.5-55.9)
Prolactin: 5.52 (4-15.2)
Psa: 0.38 (0-4)
Folate: 13.4
B12: 847 (211-946)
Ferritin: 99.8 (30-400)
VitD: 25.63 (30-100)
Tsh: 1.741 (.45-4.5)
Snse2: 18 (8-35)

Total cholesterol 169 (100-199)
Triglycerides 43 (0-149)
Hdl 76 (>39)
Vldl 9 (5-40)
LDL 84 (0-99)

Lh 6.9 (1.7-8.6)
Fsh 1.2 (1.5-12.4)

Hemoglobin 5.1 (4.8-5.6)

Not posting any other results unless necessary- I.e. wbc, rbc, calcium, protein, sodium, potassium, etc.

Forgot to mention, I have an appt with urologist this Friday- haven’t decided if I’m going to go or not. I have another appt on the 21st with a doctor in the area that will administer clomid, which is the route I want to go right now.
 

CatSnake

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Got my labs today plus a second total test check.

Total test came back at 312 today.

Test results from my first visit:
TT 282
Free test: 6.16 ng/DL
Shbg: 23.4 (16.5-55.9)
Prolactin: 5.52 (4-15.2)
Psa: 0.38 (0-4)
Folate: 13.4
B12: 847 (211-946)
Ferritin: 99.8 (30-400)
VitD: 25.63 (30-100)
Tsh: 1.741 (.45-4.5)
Snse2: 18 (8-35)

Total cholesterol 169 (100-199)
Triglycerides 43 (0-149)
Hdl 76 (>39)
Vldl 9 (5-40)
LDL 84 (0-99)

Lh 6.9 (1.7-8.6)
Fsh 1.2 (1.5-12.4)

Hemoglobin 5.1 (4.8-5.6)

Not posting any other results unless necessary- I.e. wbc, rbc, calcium, protein, sodium, potassium, etc.
vit D looks low, but that's a pretty easy fix.
 

Stantheman85

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Quick update:
Went to the urologist this afternoon. In short, he took a blood sample to check my test and estrogen levels. If my E levels come back low (which they did on my original labs, he didn’t know that SNSE2 was my E levels) then he would write me a script for Clomid. Great news, right? I was shocked when that sentence came out of his mouth. However, when I asked if this was a restart protocol, he said it could be or just a long-term solution. I was again shocked to hear him mentioning Clomid long term. We didn’t talk about dosing at all, I maybe had 10 minutes with him.

Can I get some input on long-term Clomid usage? My goal is to attempt the restart method first. I should hear from him on Monday about my results. Is long term Clomid safer than TRT? I still want more kids so maybe I stay on clomid until I am done having kids( let’s say 5-7 years).

Input is appreciated- thank you!
 

CatSnake

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Quick update:
Went to the urologist this afternoon. In short, he took a blood sample to check my test and estrogen levels. If my E levels come back low (which they did on my original labs, he didn’t know that SNSE2 was my E levels) then he would write me a script for Clomid. Great news, right? I was shocked when that sentence came out of his mouth. However, when I asked if this was a restart protocol, he said it could be or just a long-term solution. I was again shocked to hear him mentioning Clomid long term. We didn’t talk about dosing at all, I maybe had 10 minutes with him.

Can I get some input on long-term Clomid usage? My goal is to attempt the restart method first. I should hear from him on Monday about my results. Is long term Clomid safer than TRT? I still want more kids so maybe I stay on clomid until I am done having kids( let’s say 5-7 years).

Input is appreciated- thank you!
safer is subjective. classical TRT (testosterone e/cyp+HCG) is pretty safe as long as you maintain a "healthy range." clomid has been sudied extensively in men, though.

as far as fertility, I would think clomid or a HCG included TRT would be of your first priority...




http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288103-info-serms.html

^some reading on Cloimd, and long term studies.





.
 
stankyleg

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Also look for herbs or supplements that can elevate fsh. That'll help.
 

Stantheman85

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safer is subjective. classical TRT (testosterone e/cyp+HCG) is pretty safe as long as you maintain a "healthy range." clomid has been sudied extensively in men, though.

as far as fertility, I would think clomid or a HCG included TRT would be of your first priority...




http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288103-info-serms.html

^some reading on Cloimd, and long term studies.





.
Great article. Thanks for sharing, good information in there. Makes me optimistic considering my age. Should hear back from the urologist tomorrow and start clomid for the next 6 weeks until I get my levels tested again. I do have a question though...how long does it take for clomid to kick in?
 
The Matrix

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Just because vitamins or hormones are low one should not supplement with out further evaluation. Vitamin d Recommendations should not be made based on one test alone. It’s the biggest mistake I see in medicine. It’s called fill the case tank ..
 

CatSnake

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Great article. Thanks for sharing, good information in there. Makes me optimistic considering my age. Should hear back from the urologist tomorrow and start clomid for the next 6 weeks until I get my levels tested again. I do have a question though...how long does it take for clomid to kick in?
it can work pretty quick.... in a couple weeks, in many cases.

I would assume you might feel a lot better between that and raising your vit D levels.




.
 

Stantheman85

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Started my clomid treatment yesterday. 25mg ed. Will go back to urologist in 6-8 weeks to re-evaluate levels.

Feeling MUCH better since I took my first dose last night. However, I did have some insomnia last night, but used that time to my benefit. Still got 6.5 hours of sleep and feel great today.
 

jdm23

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I’m 26 as well and I just started injections. Im only on 100mg every 2 weeks. I split it to 50mg a week and it’s made a HUGE difference. I can’t remember the last time I felt so good. Just another perspective from someone young.
 

Stantheman85

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I’m 26 as well and I just started injections. Im only on 100mg every 2 weeks. I split it to 50mg a week and it’s made a HUGE difference. I can’t remember the last time I felt so good. Just another perspective from someone young.
Thanks for joining!

Couple of questions- do you have prior aas/ph usage? Did you look into the clomid route? What were your test levels like before starting trt?

I am optimistic I can bounce back from the clomid restart. If not, I’ll be forced to decide on clomid v trt for the time being. I still want more kids so right now I’m leaning more towards clomid, but trt sure sounds appealing. Having low t ****ing sucks, so the thought of raising test to ~1000 sounds amazing. The trt clinic I went to was going to start me around 150-175mg a week. What levels have you posted with 100mg/week?
 

jdm23

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Thanks for joining!

Couple of questions- do you have prior aas/ph usage? Did you look into the clomid route? What were your test levels like before starting trt?

I am optimistic I can bounce back from the clomid restart. If not, I’ll be forced to decide on clomid v trt for the time being. I still want more kids so right now I’m leaning more towards clomid, but trt sure sounds appealing. Having low t ****ing sucks, so the thought of raising test to ~1000 sounds amazing. The trt clinic I went to was going to start me around 150-175mg a week. What levels have you posted with 100mg/week?
I had low T before my ped use began my levels weren’t just terrible, (390) but I felt like crap. So I decided to the sarms route and I just became a new person. I ordered some clomid for my pct and continued it and for Me it didn’t help. But that has more to do with the boys not working right.

My wife and I still want kids too but we decided we’d rather be happy and Have to adopt than be miserable and have kids. I’m going back in 2 weeks to the dr for a follow up. I assume he’ll pull bloodwork then. I’m also going to ask about hcg to maintain fertility.
 

Stantheman85

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I had low T before my ped use began my levels weren’t just terrible, (390) but I felt like crap. So I decided to the sarms route and I just became a new person. I ordered some clomid for my pct and continued it and for Me it didn’t help. But that has more to do with the boys not working right.

My wife and I still want kids too but we decided we’d rather be happy and Have to adopt than be miserable and have kids. I’m going back in 2 weeks to the dr for a follow up. I assume he’ll pull bloodwork then. I’m also going to ask about hcg to maintain fertility.
Couldn’t agree more. The side effects of low t were ruining my life, I’m surprised I didn’t lose my job or wife during it all. Thankfully I jumped on it quickly. I think I was dealing with low t for a while now, but was able to supplement caffeine, kratom and other uppers to get by day to day.

I’ve read a lot of success stories with trt and fertility. I’m thinking with your age and starting hcg before you’re body completely shuts down, you won’t have an issue. You could always add clomid for a month or two to see if that increased fertility when the time is right. You’ll have to keep me updated on your journey. I will be in your boat sooner than later so it’s nice to hear it from someone who is going through it as well. My trt doctor told me that I needed to complain about my balls shrinking in order for insurance to pay for hcg. He also said it had to be 3 weeks from when I started test to start the hcg. Hopefully your doctor is comfortable prescribing hcg. Wishing you the best brother. The hard part is over! Hallelujah! Cheers.
 

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Updating those who are following, I hit the 4 week mark for clomid yesterday. My mood, energy and mindset has dramatically improved. I was experiencing what I would call “overly emotional” moments in the first two weeks of starting clomid. I ended up going to see another doctor in the area on the 21st, who was highly recommended. I had scheduled this appointment 4-5 weeks prior when I initially had my low test scare. He ended up prescribing me armidex .5mg 2x week. So I am about 2.5 weeks in on that and that was helped with my “overly emotional” thoughts I was having. I feel like I experienced what it’s like to be a women at times lmao. He also mentioned he preferred hcg over clomid. I stated that my first goal was the try a restart with clomid. If that doesn’t work, I would be willing to try his hcg route- he claims it is much cleaner, which I believe based on my first two weeks on clomid. My next blood work is early-mid October. He is going to run a “real” test that includes free test, all thyroid functions and etc. I’m very happy because this guy knows his stuff. I will updated again in a month or so when I get my blood work done, unless, something else comes up before then. Cheers!
 
The Matrix

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If you do not addesss other issues out side of hormones, the probability of a restart is reduce significantly. Seen this happen many times when further evaluation was required to rule out other factors and imbalances. When these issues where identified and addressed symptoms significantly resolved, testosterone levels increase and estrodial balanced. This is how medicine should be practice, but sadly it is not.
 
Ynn3kc1

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Updating those who are following, I hit the 4 week mark for clomid yesterday. My mood, energy and mindset has dramatically improved. I was experiencing what I would call “overly emotional” moments in the first two weeks of starting clomid. I ended up going to see another doctor in the area on the 21st, who was highly recommended. I had scheduled this appointment 4-5 weeks prior when I initially had my low test scare. He ended up prescribing me armidex .5mg 2x week. So I am about 2.5 weeks in on that and that was helped with my “overly emotional” thoughts I was having. I feel like I experienced what it’s like to be a women at times lmao. He also mentioned he preferred hcg over clomid. I stated that my first goal was the try a restart with clomid. If that doesn’t work, I would be willing to try his hcg route- he claims it is much cleaner, which I believe based on my first two weeks on clomid. My next blood work is early-mid October. He is going to run a “real” test that includes free test, all thyroid functions and etc. I’m very happy because this guy knows his stuff. I will updated again in a month or so when I get my blood work done, unless, something else comes up before then. Cheers!
Sounds like things are really looking up man, that's great. Hope everything keeps getting better for you. Please keep posting progress as I seem to be in a similar position from where you started. I hope when I get the chance to see a doctor who really listens and knows his stuff that my current doc hasn't made things worse. At least as far as low t symptoms go, things seem to have improved since I began taking a third of 200mg every week after researching and listening to recommendations from the people here on am. But I'm already 34 and hope to have kids one day so hopefully I can turn things around with the right doctor. But you and everyone in the thread have def given me some hope.
Much appreciated.
 

Stantheman85

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Quick update....

Got a call from my doc this weekend. Test came back at 850, estrogen was either 32-33 can’t remember and thyroids all looked good. Waiting for a call back today or tomorrow about my go-forward plan. I want to attempt a restart (stopping clomid) and see if my body will bounce back. If not, it’s between HCG mono therapy or continued clomid use. I am leaning towards HCG at this point to see how I respond to that. Plus I don’t want to be on clomid long-term.
 

sammpedd88

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Quick update....

Got a call from my doc this weekend. Test came back at 850, estrogen was either 32-33 can’t remember and thyroids all looked good. Waiting for a call back today or tomorrow about my go-forward plan. I want to attempt a restart (stopping clomid) and see if my body will bounce back. If not, it’s between HCG mono therapy or continued clomid use. I am leaning towards HCG at this point to see how I respond to that. Plus I don’t want to be on clomid long-term.
What have you been taking to get your levels to this point?
 
The Matrix

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2 months of 25mg clomid ED and 0.5mg arimidex every week (started about 3 weeks into my clomid script)
Usually after 2-3 months clomid may stop working same thing with hcg for many
With clomid common approach is often 12.5 -25 mgs few times a week seems to have the best approach with least side effects. My concern is long term Adex on brains and bones. Due to Adex half life, it often used lower dosage more frequently then once a week.
 

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