Ostarine’s effect on test level for trt folks?

[JoePaul39]

I just started my trt two weeks ago. Was thinking of adding Ostarine shortly. I know it is suppressive if you are not on trt, but if on trt could it still decrease doctor test readings from bloodwork even though the test is being provided from an outside source and not being produced by my body naturally? The reason I ask is because I don’t want to run it if it could interfere in the doctor being able to zero in on a correct test dose for me. I just think it couldn’t lower my test since it is coming from injections, is my assumption accurate?

 

[Pinggolfee96]

no. your trt is suppressive too. you're fine

 

[JoePaul39]

no. your trt is suppressive too. you're fine

Good to hear ! Now I don’t have to wait to on the cycle! If it were prohormones that would be a different story since it would spike my test and then the dr might lower my test.

 

[Pinggolfee96]

Good to hear ! Now I don’t have to wait to on the cycle! If it were prohormones that would be a different story since it would spike my test and then the dr might lower my test.

You’re technically already on a pro-hormone if you’re on trt. Andros are just a precursor to test.

 

[JoePaul39]

You’re technically already on a pro-hormone if you’re on trt. Andros are just a precursor to test.

No trt is not a prohormone because Testosterone is a steroid, but yes I agree andros are a precursor to test via a 2 step conversion.

 

[CatSnake]

I just started my trt two weeks ago. Was thinking of adding Ostarine shortly. I know it is suppressive if you are not on trt, but if on trt could it still decrease doctor test readings from bloodwork even though the test is being provided from an outside source and not being produced by my body naturally? The reason I ask is because I don’t want to run it if it could interfere in the doctor being able to zero in on a correct test dose for me. I just think it couldn’t lower my test since it is coming from injections, is my assumption accurate?

technically, it's possible that ostarine or any other androgen could increase total T levels, because they could bind to the androgen receptors, thereby freeing up testosterone into circulation.

I couldn't tell you how much it would affect total T levels, tho.

however, ostarine can also decrease SHBG, so that can also increase free T levels as well.


I would hold off on the ostarine until you get your TRT dialed in.

 

[JoePaul39]

technically, it's possible that ostarine or any other androgen could increase total T levels, because they could bind to the androgen receptors, thereby freeing up testosterone into circulation.

I couldn't tell you how much it would affect total T levels, tho.

however, ostarine can also decrease SHBG, so that can also increase free T levels as well.


I would hold off on the ostarine until you get your TRT dialed in.

I agree it could increase free t due to an impact on shgb. I know LGD does that at least. Like you said the potential for free t rising on theses compounds could account for estrogenic effects. That is why I started the thread about the Ai because I want to be prepared. I don’t see how it could increase my total t at all however and my doctor doesn’t test free t or shgb unless you request it so he would never know if those readings change due to taking Ostarine. Also doesn’t test lipids.

 

[CatSnake]

. I don’t see how it could increase my total t at all .

well, all androgens and SARMs bind to androgen receptors. ostarine would bind to the same receptor that testosterone would be, thereby potentially causing the testosterone to go back into circulation. this would cause your blood levels to rise.

this is also based off the premise that there are only so many androgen receptors being used at one time, too....

 

[Burnfire]

I agree it could increase free t due to an impact on shgb. I know LGD does that at least. Like you said the potential for free t rising on theses compounds could account for estrogenic effects. That is why I started the thread about the Ai because I want to be prepared. I don’t see how it could increase my total t at all however and my doctor doesn’t test free t or shgb unless you request it so he would never know if those readings change due to taking Ostarine. Also doesn’t test lipids.

That's how my doctor does my test. I've been trying to get everything dialed in before I added anything else in.

 

[JoePaul39]

well, all androgens and SARMs bind to androgen receptors. ostarine would bind to the same receptor that testosterone would be, thereby potentially causing the testosterone to go back into circulation. this would cause your blood levels to rise.

this is also based off the premise that there are only so many androgen receptors being used at one time, too....

I don’t understand., why does Ostarine suppress total T in a non trt person, but could potentially do the opposite for a trt person? Based upon what you said I will need to time my cycle so it ends 4 weeks before my next blood test. I would think this would be sufficient time for it to go back down should it get elevated. I plan on running an 8 week cycle so if I have 12 weeks between tests I will need to run it right after a test reading. I would hate for the Osta to raise my total t, then I get tested, and have my trt dosage lowered due to the osta elevating the test.

 

[CatSnake]

I don’t understand., why does Ostarine suppress total T in a non trt person, but could potentially do the opposite for a trt person? Based upon what you said I will need to time my cycle so it ends 4 weeks before my next blood test. I would think this would be sufficient time for it to go back down should it get elevated. I plan on running an 8 week cycle so if I have 12 weeks between tests I will need to run it right after a test reading. I would hate for the Osta to raise my total t, then I get tested, and have my trt dosage lowered due to the osta elevating the test.

I'm not talking about suppression.

I'm talking about the additive effect that a SARM has in adding in to your TRT. same thing with a different type of steroid/androgen...

 

[JoePaul39]

I'm not talking about suppression.

I'm talking about the additive effect that a SARM has in adding in to your TRT. same thing with a different type of steroid/androgen...

I could be wrong, but I highly doubt Ostarine would raise total T for someone on trt. I have never heard of this reported. I can see it raising free t by lowering shgb, but that is it. At any rate, that would be a good thing if it somehow did also raise my total t as long as it wasn’t time for bloodwork.

 

[CatSnake]

I could be wrong, but I highly doubt Ostarine would raise total T for someone on trt. I have never heard of this reported. I can see it raising free t by lowering shgb, but that is it. At any rate, that would be a good thing if it somehow did also raise my total t as long as it wasn’t time for bloodwork.

do you know how androgen receptors work?

 

[JoePaul39]

do you know how androgen receptors work?

Honestly? No I don’t know the science behind it.

I think on a prior post you asked about my trt. Got a shot today and enquirerd about the dose. It is 150 mg once a week.

 

[CatSnake]

Honestly? No I don’t know the science behind it.

I think on a prior post you asked about my trt. Got a shot today and enquirerd about the dose. It is 150 mg once a week.

K. not trying to be a jerk, just asking.

androgen receptors are where androgens (testosterone, SARMs, etc) bind. the more total androgens in your body, the more of these receptors are bound. therefore, a SARM could displace testosterone, which would normally bind to the AR, and cause it to go back into the circulating blood supply. this could make your total testosterone levels appear to be higher. make sense?

also, I'm not saying that this WILL significantly affect your total T, but it COULD possibly skew the results and is not a good idea to mess with while ironing out your base protocol...

 

[JoePaul39]

K. not trying to be a jerk, just asking.

androgen receptors are where androgens (testosterone, SARMs, etc) bind. the more total androgens in your body, the more of these receptors are bound. therefore, a SARM could displace testosterone, which would normally bind to the AR, and cause it to go back into the circulating blood supply. this could make your total testosterone levels appear to be higher. make sense?

also, I'm not saying that this WILL significantly affect your total T, but it COULD possibly skew the results and is not a good idea to mess with while ironing out your base protocol...

Thanks for the explanation and not jumping on me for my ignorance regarding the matter. How long would you suggest I wait jump on a sarm cycle after starting trt? Also, when I eventually do run a sarm cycle on trt how many weeks would you recommend discontinuing the cycle prior to bloodwork to enable test levels to stabilize
To precycle levels for the test? Wouldn’t want to get my trt dosage changed because of the Sarm.

 

[CatSnake]

Thanks for the explanation and not jumping on me for my ignorance regarding the matter. How long would you suggest I wait jump on a sarm cycle after starting trt? Also, when I eventually do run a sarm cycle on trt how many weeks would you recommend discontinuing the cycle prior to bloodwork to enable test levels to stabilize
To precycle levels for the test? Wouldn’t want to get my trt dosage changed because of the Sarm.

well, I've been on TRT around 8 months. based off my experience, I am only now getting to the point where my gains are slowing down and I really feel like adding something else in. I guess it depends on what your starting T levels were and how long they were low, but you could see some really good gains for several months just on that alone.... maybe wait until you hit a plateau?

Osatirine has a half-life of about a day, so I'd assume at least a couple weeks would be needed to where it wasn't affecting your system.

 

[JoePaul39]

well, I've been on TRT around 8 months. based off my experience, I am only now getting to the point where my gains are slowing down and I really feel like adding something else in. I guess it depends on what your starting T levels were and how long they were low, but you could see some really good gains for several months just on that alone.... maybe wait until you hit a plateau?

Osatirine has a half-life of about a day, so I'd assume at least a couple weeks would be needed to where it wasn't affecting your system.

Thanks for the info. My starting levels weren’t totally low (low 400s). Hoping getting that doubled by trt will help with gains. I think I will take your advice and just do the trt by itself until I stop having gains and get dialed into my proper dosage. I will save money on the supplement budget that way too! How long did it take for your doctor to get dialed in on an accurate
dosage? My doctor said he tests about a month after beginning the trt, then if levels are where he wants them about 3 months after that he tests again.

 

[Mountain Man]

No trt is not a prohormone because Testosterone is a steroid, but yes I agree andros are a precursor to test via a 2 step conversion.

Semantics here. If you need TRT and are hypogonadal, then testerome is not really a steroid, but is an exdogenous source of testosterone that gets you in optimal range. Prohormones are precursors to testosterone. Before I got on test my levels were 373 and now are 852, within “normal” range. I am on a TRT dose. If I were to raise my test levels to 1500 or so by increasing the dose, then I would be using it as a steroid.

One of the reasons I turned to TRT was because I tried prohormones and in the short run they were better. TRT can be sustained indefinitely if the dose is not at steroid like levels. Just depends if you are in it for the long haul or want to go as far as you can immediately.

Curious as to why you want to add ostarine. Why not see how far you can get with test alone?

 

[CatSnake]

Thanks for the info. My starting levels weren’t totally low (low 400s). Hoping getting that doubled by trt will help with gains. I think I will take your advice and just do the trt by itself until I stop having gains and get dialed into my proper dosage. I will save money on the supplement budget that way too! How long did it take for your doctor to get dialed in on an accurate
dosage? My doctor said he tests about a month after beginning the trt, then if levels are where he wants them about 3 months after that he tests again.

well. I went with Dr Henry and Entourage Medical, which is a board sponsor here. he got them dialed in right away.... pretty amazing feeling getting that fixed.

 

[JoePaul39]

Semantics here. If you need TRT and are hypogonadal, then testerome is not really a steroid, but is an exdogenous source of testosterone that gets you in optimal range. Prohormones are precursors to testosterone. Before I got on test my levels were 373 and now are 852, within “normal” range. I am on a TRT dose. If I were to raise my test levels to 1500 or so by increasing the dose, then I would be using it as a steroid.

One of the reasons I turned to TRT was because I tried prohormones and in the short run they were better. TRT can be sustained indefinitely if the dose is not at steroid like levels. Just depends if you are in it for the long haul or want to go as far as you can immediately.

Curious as to why you want to add ostarine. Why not see how far you can get with test alone?

I am going to wait till my trt dosage is dialed in to start Ostarine. Want to add it because I heard it is great for cutting and I am 21.5 percent body fat. I know there is no magic bullet and I have my diet and training in place. The Ostarine will work synergistically with the trt to get me results faster than the trt alone.

 

[JoePaul39]

well. I went with Dr Henry and Entourage Medical, which is a board sponsor here. he got them dialed in right away.... pretty amazing feeling getting that fixed.

Sounds cool. Heard good things about them and they are affordable too. What level he have you at?

 

[Outofbody]

Just an FYI but Ostarine will upregulate estrogen receptor sensitivity. Not sure how or why this happens, but it certainly does. Not really worth it imo....

 

[JoePaul39]

Just an FYI but Ostarine will upregulate estrogen receptor sensitivity. Not sure how or why this happens, but it certainly does. Not really worth it imo....

Does this pertain to both trt folks and folks not on trt?

 

[The Matrix]

When you increase androgen sensitivity with SARMS you also increase free estrogen as shbg will be LOWER. Guys with high shbg on TRT may benefit from low dosage SARMS as an alternative to proviron with many other benefits. I am not talking cycle dosages by lowest dosage required to get a therapeutic response. Like rad 140 may be 2.5 - 5 mgs daily vs 10 or 20 mgs a day

 

[The Matrix]

When you increase androgen sensitivity with SARMS you also increase free estrogen as shbg will be LOWER. Guys with high shbg on TRT may benefit from low dosage SARMS as an alternative to proviron with many other benefits. I am not talking cycle dosages but lowest dosage required to get a therapeutic response. Rad 140 may be 2.5 - 5 mgs daily vs 10 or 20 mgs a day

 

[JoePaul39]

When you increase androgen sensitivity with SARMS you also increase free estrogen as shbg will be LOWER. Guys with high shbg on TRT may benefit from low dosage SARMS as an alternative to proviron with many other benefits. I am not talking cycle dosages by lowest dosage required to get a therapeutic response. Like rad 140 may be 2.5 - 5 mgs daily vs 10 or 20 mgs a day

I am on 150 mg trt a week. Plan on taking Ostarine for 8 weeks at 25 mg a day. Will be taking Olympus Labs Arimicare for cycle support and estrogen control, but if I start experiencing any estrogen signs I will be sure to get an Ai from my trt doctor.

 

[Outofbody]

Does this pertain to both trt folks and folks not on trt?

Both I believe. Matrix just made an interesting post though. Looks like sarms could be useful on TRT. Personally, I prefer a bit of masteron to lower SHBG and it helps with estrogen a bit as well.

 

[The Matrix]

I am getting blood work in 10 mgs with rad 140 for 6 week with no changes in TRT looking at very in-depth markers in hormonals and metabolic pathways. I also plan on getting a Dutch urine test in next week or so. I do think the testosterone increasing will cause my cortisol to drop a bit as I can feel bottom of my feet getting sore more often. After I get results back i plan on detoxifying glyophosphate and heavy metals getting out which I have been researching on safe ways for several years.

 

[thu_hobbit]

I am on 150 mg trt a week. Plan on taking Ostarine for 8 weeks at 25 mg a day. Will be taking Olympus Labs Arimicare for cycle support and estrogen control, but if I start experiencing any estrogen signs I will be sure to get an Ai from my trt doctor.

Dude if you have never taken ostarine, i highly suggest between 15-20 mg / day. Anything higher will not do much for you but give you negative sides...especially estro related.

 

[JoePaul39]

Dude if you have never taken ostarine, i highly suggest between 15-20 mg / day. Anything higher will not do much for you but give you negative sides...especially estro related.

I have an AI on hand if that were to occur.

 

[NAO1255]

When you increase androgen sensitivity with SARMS you also increase free estrogen as shbg will be LOWER. Guys with high shbg on TRT may benefit from low dosage SARMS as an alternative to proviron with many other benefits. I am not talking cycle dosages but lowest dosage required to get a therapeutic response. Rad 140 may be 2.5 - 5 mgs daily vs 10 or 20 mgs a day

People seem astonishingly Perplexed when they find out that more "Free T" as a result of LOWER SHBG actually means More DHT + More Free Estradiol...what do 'folks think they are doing when they take Divanil extract and all that good stuff???

 

[The Matrix]

Never seen it lower shbg in multiple cases.
Actually my e2 dropped from 27 down 15 once I finally got my zinc levels up to functional levels after 10 years of being deficient despite zinc oral supplementation from every angle. I found out many moons ago SLC29A gene expression was zinc transporter that not allow oral supplement to be absorbed in GI tract, but transdermal it did. Once I cleared the mold on a few other males their androgen receptors kicked in reducing their estrogen issues. They had to use AI to stabilize levels. Now they are off them and doing great.

 

[NAO1255]

Never seen it lower shbg in multiple cases.
Actually my e2 dropped from 27 down 15 once I finally got my zinc levels up to functional levels after 10 years of being deficient despite zinc oral supplementation from every angle. I found out many moons ago SLC29A gene expression was zinc transporter that not allow oral supplement to be absorbed in GI tract, but transdermal it did. Once I cleared the mold on a few other males their androgen receptors kicked in reducing their estrogen issues. They had to use AI to stabilize levels. Now they are off them and doing great.

How did you "clear the mold"...Colloidal Silver or something more Specific?

 

[kl1234]

Good luck getting an answer. Matrix seems very knowledgeable... but must be trying to sell his services. He talks in circles and never will answer a direct question. Most guys on this forum will let ya know what they have found helpful... matrix will not.

 

[NAO1255]

Good luck getting an answer. Matrix seems very knowledgeable... but must be trying to sell his services. He talks in circles and never will answer a direct question. Most guys on this forum will let ya know what they have found helpful... matrix will not.

Actually he does give very good answers. I think like most of anyone, we miss parts and don't address all of Everything. But also, what you might not be considering, is if he holds a Title in the Medical Profession...then spouting various Remedies or giving specifics could potentially be a Stupid Idea.
Lastly, not all of everyone's Complex Questions have a Simple Answer...sometimes Matrix's replies are Perfect in that he is advising People to simply do THEIR OWN RESEARCH. The Right way to do things...being self-sufficient and a Free-Thinker...

 

[JoePaul39]

When you increase androgen sensitivity with SARMS you also increase free estrogen as shbg will be LOWER. Guys with high shbg on TRT may benefit from low dosage SARMS as an alternative to proviron with many other benefits. I am not talking cycle dosages but lowest dosage required to get a therapeutic response. Rad 140 may be 2.5 - 5 mgs daily vs 10 or 20 mgs a day

Are guys on trt more susceptible to high estrogen to sides from running Ostarine due to elevation in free t ? I would think fornon trt men they would be less at risk of estronsides because the Ostarine would suppress their test being produced unlike someone who is on trt who would still have high t sjnce they are getting injections and the free t would skyrocket increasing estrogen.

 

[HokiePride]

Subd’ most informative post I’ve read in a long time in regards to TRT and SARMS. This thread has answered many of my questions.

 

[CatSnake]

Are guys on trt more susceptible to high estrogen to sides from running Ostarine due to elevation in free t ? I would think fornon trt men they would be less at risk of estronsides because the Ostarine would suppress their test being produced unlike someone who is on trt who would still have high t sjnce they are getting injections and the free t would skyrocket increasing estrogen.

I don't quite get why so many people are having gyno, etc on SARMs. even with lowered SHBG, and therefore an increase in free T/E2, total E2 still goes down significantly on SARMs (at least on the SARMs that have been studied).

I agree with some folks here, in that I'm starting to believe that a lot of the SARMs out there are something else entirely....

 

[mase1]

Most sarms are not what they are suppose to be in my opinion. When they first came out they were great, but now that every company is trying to get a piece of the action they are selling junk.

 

[NAO1255]

Most sarms are not what they are suppose to be in my opinion. When they first came out they were great, but now that every company is trying to get a piece of the action they are selling junk.

Well some have poor Research and thus are Junk anyway!!!

 

[The Matrix]

Some times studies are not worth 2 sh$ts unless you put them to practice in real world situations

 

[NAO1255]

Some times studies are not worth 2 sh$ts unless you put them to practice in real world situations

Yup! On-Paper results don't always add up to the Real World!

 

[The Matrix]

How did you "clear the mold"...Colloidal Silver or something more Specific?

Mold is a bastard to clear
Argtyn 23 nasal spray only helps MARCONS does not help mold. Can take up to 3 months or more to remove. I got 3 mold machines running in my house and one in my office with dehumidifiers. I also run different binders on a rotation basis. I am fortunate to work with the well respected mold doctors in several different countries to have access to the proper tools to get rid of it. First is to identify the source which is the most challenge part. Client today been to multiple specialists no answers. Found she was sensitive to mold found on grains on numerous tests to confirm. Mold can triggers Lyme and other virus such as EBV HSV. I see it all the time when people fail antibiotic treatment

 

[NAO1255]

Mold is a bastard to clear
Argtyn 23 nasal spray only helps MARCONS does not help mold. Can take up to 3 months or more to remove. I got 3 mold machines running in my house and one in my office with dehumidifiers. I also run different binders on a rotation basis. I am fortunate to work with the well respected mold doctors in several different countries to have access to the proper tools to get rid of it. First is to identify the source which is the most challenge part. Client today been to multiple specialists no answers. Found she was sensitive to mold found on grains on numerous tests to confirm. Mold can triggers Lyme and other virus such as EBV HSV. I see it all the time when people fail antibiotic treatment

Yeah and internally is pretty bad too. Deadly ****. 'Lotta folks don't recognize Mold can cause Depression, Anxiety, OCD, Psychosis and Rage etc

 

[The Matrix]

I had several cases of suicide from it. It was just too late and happen to fast. It was truly sad
One was a single mother with 2 sons lost a year apart.
Doctors are totally obvious
When you clear it then you can actually reboot the HPTA to get pituitary firing again. I did it a few time where TRT was not needed. Happened in a 50 year old even...

 

[NAO1255]

I had several cases of suicide from it. It was just too late and happen to fast. It was truly sad
One was a single mother with 2 sons lost a year apart.
Doctors are totally obvious
When you clear it then you can actually reboot the HPTA to get pituitary firing again. I did it a few time where TRT was not needed. Happened in a 50 year old even...

...but Colloidal Silver internally seems to be the only option next to Garlic and a biome supplement.

 

[The Matrix]

Not true
Often times I may have the doctors use CSM compounded not the crap you get from the local pharmacy which is full of binders. Depending on situation may suggest IV PC as long as pathogens are in check it should flush out the mold with in the tissues then use CSM to bind. One may have to run phenylbutrate with IV PC. One can also do a poor man’s liver flush with nanonized PC. Each case is different as I don’t use Shoemakers protocol.

 

[The Matrix]

Good luck getting an answer. Matrix seems very knowledgeable... but must be trying to sell his services. He talks in circles and never will answer a direct question. Most guys on this forum will let ya know what they have found helpful... matrix will not.

I got doctors and clinics from different countries referring all I need. Answers are straight forward, science based providing information from a clinical application not just self experiment on just one person, but thousands of cases collecting data points looking at hidden relationship no one else is looking. If a doctor uses the word “patient” they are not selling service, but if I use “Client” I am accused of selling service. People should grateful not so spiteful...

 

[NAO1255]

If a doctor uses the word “patient” they are not selling service, but if I use “Client” I am accused of selling service. People should grateful not so spiteful...

Which is exactly what I Just explained to this dude, you can't afford to be seen as selling services even if it *seems* like your Identity is hidden. Even Dr.Jim on Meso who's last name or location is hidden - is relatively careful, sometimes Generic or Ambiguous when he talks so as to not spill too much information or Jeopardize his License!