Starting TRT dose based on this blood work?

rocknroll

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47 years old...had T tested...supposed to find out starting dosage and wondering what I should expect.

I'm leery about being prescribed low amount of testosterone and if I'm paying for this I want it to be optimal and worthwhile. Yes...I know more isn't always better...just wondering what opinions are of starting T dose for me.

Here's what I THINK are the important ones based on the searches I've done on this forum. Thanks for any insight!

TT: 269
Free Test: 6.3

Estradiol: <5.0
SHBG: 42.5

Hemocrit: 43.2
Hemoglobin 15.3
PSA .5

Blood Pressure 68/125
eGFR-82
ALT 135 (says high)
AST 72 (says high)

Insulin Like Growth Factor -145
TSH 2.200

HDL 62
LDL 183

All kinds of other blood work listed (total of 3 pages) but not sure what else would be relevant.

I know what "normal" levels so that's not what I'm asking...

Rather I'm wondering basically in your opinion what amount of prescribed test I should be happy with and what I should question. In my mind I'm thinking I they'll start me at 100 but that's just a guess.

Thanks for any insights, observations, and experiences.
 
81dcs

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Sounds like a job for kenpoengineer. He's always led me n the right direction.
 

Destroying

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47 years old...had T tested...supposed to find out starting dosage and wondering what I should expect.

I'm leery about being prescribed low amount of testosterone and if I'm paying for this I want it to be optimal and worthwhile. Yes...I know more isn't always better...just wondering what opinions are of starting T dose for me.

Here's what I THINK are the important ones based on the searches I've done on this forum. Thanks for any insight!

TT: 269
Free Test: 6.3

Estradiol: <5.0
SHBG: 42.5

Hemocrit: 43.2
Hemoglobin 15.3
PSA .5

Blood Pressure 68/125
eGFR-82
ALT 135 (says high)
AST 72 (says high)

Insulin Like Growth Factor -145
TSH 2.200

HDL 62
LDL 183

All kinds of other blood work listed (total of 3 pages) but not sure what else would be relevant.

I know what "normal" levels so that's not what I'm asking...

Rather I'm wondering basically in your opinion what amount of prescribed test I should be happy with and what I should question. In my mind I'm thinking I they'll start me at 100 but that's just a guess.

Thanks for any insights, observations, and experiences.
Everything looks good except those live values are a little elevated. Go you drink? I’d do a follow up blood test and measure GGT more more insight. When my liver values went up like that my doc sent be for an ultrasound.
 

rocknroll

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No I haven't had a drink in 15 years...
 

Destroying

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No I haven't had a drink in 15 years...
Realistically it’s not super high, it can go out of range for many reasons, even Tylenol. AST and alt is not a marker for liver damage, it is a marker for stress on the liver. For peace of mind I’d follow up.
 

Destroying

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Usually guys who take oral AAS get elevated liver values
 

rocknroll

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Realistically it’s not super high, it can go out of range for many reasons, even Tylenol. AST and alt is not a marker for liver damage, it is a marker for stress on the liver. For peace of mind I’d follow up.
I did finish a RAD-140 cycle about a month ago...not sure if that'd have an effect at this point.
 
kenpoengineer

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This is what I’m seeing in your bloodwork:
1) Estradiol at less than 5 is extremely low.
ALT/AST are both very high and indicate liver stress. Are you on any antidepressant medications or OTC pain medications?

Have you or are you using any SARMS or AAS? Any testosterone boosters?

What is the RAD cycle you mentioned?
 

rocknroll

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Just RAD 140 which is a SARM. No antidepressants or OTC. I’m on keto diet, would that have effect? Stressful job/life...5 kids...etc.
 
christ83189

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Well RAD would have an effect on testosterone levels. Did you pct with a serm? Cause that stuff will crash your test production. Idk the effect it has on estradiol but it seems most likely it did cause thats insanely low from my understamding of things. I feel your pain with stressful life though ive got 3 kids with another on the way in the next month and tons of outside stress attacking me lately. Low t on top of that sucks. Thankfully i just got on trt to help with that aspect though
 

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Did small PCT with just OTC supps coming off RAD 140.
 
81dcs

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Just RAD 140 which is a SARM. No antidepressants or OTC. I’m on keto diet, would that have effect? Stressful job/life...5 kids...etc.
Ahh, I live on a keto diet for 7 months now and have never felt better. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.
 

rocknroll

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Ahh, I live on a keto diet for 7 months now and have never felt better. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.
81dcs...are you on TRT and do you make gains towards your goals?
 
kenpoengineer

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Did small PCT with just OTC supps coming off RAD 140.
Care to share what your PCT was and what OTC supplements you took? Something crashed your estradiol hard. You should be feeling awful with creaking/dry joints and no libido.
 

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Sorry, that was unclear...just asking if TRT has helped you in the weight room and/gain size, strength. i.e. help you get closer to your weightlifting/bodybuilding goals.
 

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Care to share what your PCT was and what OTC supplements you took? Something crashed your estradiol hard. You should be feeling awful with creaking/dry joints and no libido.
Weird...I didn’t know it’d make me feel that way with joints, etc. I have been achy but just figured it was part of getting old, honestly I think it’s gone on for so long that it’s just part of my life. Waking up in the morning for the last few years more often than not with an achy back and other joints has just become the norm.

Libido is down.

Yeah I DO feel awful but when that has been the norm for so long and you’re someone who by nature is an optimist and always tries RJ make the best of things and live in the “sunny side” you don’t realize how bad you feel. You just try to plug through and live happily. Honestly, I think I’m too dang busy to stop too long to think about feeling bad.

Pct was a product by InnivaPharm called Stage 1:

Trying to post a pic c of label and then will type ingredients best I can. See if it comes though here:
912B561D-4F98-4053-BF6D-BE958624DE7E.jpeg


Listed ingredients (some of these ingredients have alternate names in parentheses that would be a pain to type but here goes:

E-Xatane 36 mg (Androsta 3-5-diene , 17 dione)

30 mg zinc citrate…
60 mg vitamin B6…
1650 IU of vitamin D3…
Fadogia agrestis
D aspartic acid
tribulus terrestris
fenugreek extract
Tong hat ali
 
Last edited:
pyrobatt

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Weird...I didn’t know it’d make me feel that way with joints, etc. I have been achy but just figured it was part of getting old, honestly I think it’s gone on for so long that it’s just part of my life. Waking up in the morning for the last few years more often than not with an achy back and other joints has just become the norm.

Libido is down.

Pct was a product by InnivaPharm called Stage 1:

Trying to post a pic c of label and then will type ingredients best I can. See if it comes though here:
View attachment 163129

Listed ingredients (some of these ingredients have alternate names in parentheses that would be a pain to type but here goes:

E-Xatane 36 mg (Androsta 3-5-diene , 17 dione)

30 mg zinc citrate…
60 mg vitamin B6…
1650 IU of vitamin D3…
Fadogia agrestis
D aspartic acid
tribulus terrestris
fenugreek extract
Tong hat ali
It looks like...

1 they had real arimistane in there which tanked your estrogen. Were you taking an anti estrogen at any point in the past? Thats way too low for arimistane.

2 you didn't pct with a SERM. great news is you should be able to convince the doc you want to try clomid to restart. Just ask about it.

If he says no just buy clomid and try that for 8 weeks all the way up to 6 months. Perfectly safe. If it doesn't reset you, then trt here you come.


I've been telling people this for years BUT...SARMS NEED A REAL PCT. Especially underground ****.

Imo.
 

rocknroll

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No never taken an anti estrogen other than this product in the past. I'll ask doc about starting with Clomid. I believe they said I'd have arimadex (sp?)...would that be same benefit as clomid?

They are sending me my test and everything I need this week. Needles, etc....Made it sound like everything would arrive in one package...sort of a kit...and that I could/should come in and have them show me how to inject once package arrives.

I don't know how much test and/or if Arimadex is included. The nurse made it sound like I might not have the Arimadex included because my estrogen was so low that they wouldn't need it at least for this first month to 6 weeks.

They said the kit would have HCG as well...standard for them to use along with test.
 

Destroying

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No never taken an anti estrogen other than this product in the past. I'll ask doc about starting with Clomid. I believe they said I'd have arimadex (sp?)...would that be same benefit as clomid?

They are sending me my test and everything I need this week. Needles, etc....Made it sound like everything would arrive in one package...sort of a kit...and that I could/should come in and have them show me how to inject once package arrives.

I don't know how much test and/or if Arimadex is included. The nurse made it sound like I might not have the Arimadex included because my estrogen was so low that they wouldn't need it at least for this first month to 6 weeks.

They said the kit would have HCG as well...standard for them to use along with test.
All you need is clomid our don’t need any of that other stuff, not for Whoops, didn’t read through you’re entire thread. I’d get clomid and Nolva and Arimidex or Aromasin. Good to have plenty of ancillaries, just in case
 
stevencfitnes

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As others have said, liver values high. You should get that looked at before doing anything else.
 
stevencfitnes

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Well RAD would have an effect on testosterone levels. Did you pct with a serm? Cause that stuff will crash your test production. Idk the effect it has on estradiol but it seems most likely it did cause thats insanely low from my understamding of things. I feel your pain with stressful life though ive got 3 kids with another on the way in the next month and tons of outside stress attacking me lately. Low t on top of that sucks. Thankfully i just got on trt to help with that aspect though
A serm will crash test? Some guys have experiments with toremifene for test boosting vs test e/c... Didn't now it would crash test.
 
dillface02241

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At first doc prescribed 200mg/wk test cyp, which was too much for me. hermatocrit went to 53 so too high. my lifts went up a lot and so did vascularity. i gained 11 pds of muscle/water. It also made me kind of crazy and my test levels was over 2000. I looked like a steroid freak.

i dropped to 120 mg per week and hermatocrit went down to 46, i feel great and lost the weight and a little strength. way happier at 120/wk. Start low and work your way up.. you most likely won't notice a difference of test levels from 500 - 1000
 
stevencfitnes

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At first doc prescribed 200mg/wk test cyp, which was too much for me. hermatocrit went to 53 so too high. my lifts went up a lot and so did vascularity. i gained 11 pds of muscle/water. It also made me kind of crazy and my test levels was over 2000. I looked like a steroid freak.

i dropped to 120 mg per week and hermatocrit went down to 46, i feel great and lost the weight and a little strength. way happier at 120/wk. Start low and work your way up.. you most likely won't notice a difference of test levels from 500 - 1000
I disagree. You'll see a huge difference between 500 - 1000
 
dillface02241

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you won't feel much of a difference, and you won't see much of a difference, at least for me. Everyone's different. Some levels are at 600 at 200mg/week, some are at 2000. depends.
 
bad rad

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Working out can dramatically elevate the liver enzymes. I had blood work immediately after training and both enzyme levels were 4-6 x normal. AST/ALT are also in the muscle tissues.

Next time wait 4-5 days after training before blood work.
 

rocknroll

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Working out can dramatically elevate the liver enzymes. I had blood work immediately after training and both enzyme levels were 4-6 x normal. AST/ALT are also in the muscle tissues.

Next time wait 4-5 days after training before blood work.
WOW...this would TOTALLY explain my liver values....because I DO remember working out a few hours before blood draw and wondered at the time if it'd have an effect. I figured they would've told me not to workout for X number of hours or days prior to draw...

Thanks bad rad.
 
stevencfitnes

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WOW...this would TOTALLY explain my liver values....because I DO remember working out a few hours before blood draw and wondered at the time if it'd have an effect. I figured they would've told me not to workout for X number of hours or days prior to draw...

Thanks bad rad.
Well, it can explain some elevated results, but I'd your results should be under 40 (labcor where I test needs to be under 40) and I knees were over 55, that's a little high given workouts etc.
 
BloodManor

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It looks like...

1 they had real arimistane in there which tanked your estrogen. Were you taking an anti estrogen at any point in the past? Thats way too low for arimistane.

2 you didn't pct with a SERM. great news is you should be able to convince the doc you want to try clomid to restart. Just ask about it.

If he says no just buy clomid and try that for 8 weeks all the way up to 6 months. Perfectly safe. If it doesn't reset you, then trt here you come.


I've been telling people this for years BUT...SARMS NEED A REAL PCT. Especially underground ****.

Imo.

I agree 100%
Sarms will shut you down hard
 

rocknroll

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Yet SARMS are so often advertised or cited to not have much suppression, at least most of them. Many dudes have commented about LGD 4033 causing pretty severe suppression but most say RAD140 and some others don't.

I'm not saying I don't believe you at all, it's just sucky they're so misleading. I've taken 4-6 cycles of them over the last 2-3 years and have only ever used OTC PTC products.
 

Destroying

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Yet SARMS are so often advertised or cited to not have much suppression, at least most of them. Many dudes have commented about LGD 4033 causing pretty severe suppression but most say RAD140 and some others don't.

I'm not saying I don't believe you at all, it's just sucky they're so misleading. I've taken 4-6 cycles of them over the last 2-3 years and have only ever used OTC PTC products.
Yes and while it is cool that there is research going into these SARMS one still must think to oneself to err on the side of caution. Long Term effects have not yet had the time to be studied, hence, the SARMS are still awaiting FDA approval. There is nothing to say that SARMS are safe for your liver, only that they aren’t modified vis-à-vis the 17aa alteration.
 
kenpoengineer

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justhere4comm

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I prefer "Total Recall Therapy" where one recalls their youth with TESTOSTERONE... uhm therapy...
 
kenpoengineer

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I prefer "Total Recall Therapy" where one recalls their youth with TESTOSTERONE... uhm therapy...
Lol! Are you logging someplace on AM? I need to follow!
 
kenpoengineer

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Yet SARMS are so often advertised or cited to not have much suppression, at least most of them. Many dudes have commented about LGD 4033 causing pretty severe suppression but most say RAD140 and some others don't.

I'm not saying I don't believe you at all, it's just sucky they're so misleading. I've taken 4-6 cycles of them over the last 2-3 years and have only ever used OTC PTC products.
Have you seen this thread:
Crazy high ALT, AST from Ostarine
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301771
 

rocknroll

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Ok verdict in...I was prescribed 200mg/week of test C. Also 3500 HCG. No Arimadex yet since estroidal levels are so low. Hoping this is a sufficient/solid dose for me. A few folks I’ve contacted said it was a good dose. Thanks to the help on this thread and forum.
 
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