DHEA WARNING

Punkrocker

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All right guys so I recently found out my DHEA and pregnenolone levels were low this past summer. I am on trt and was unable to donate blood until October 2017. I avoided using HCG because it raises my hematocrit. Instead I supplemented with DHEA and pregnenolone seeing as my levels were low. I donated a pint of blood November 1st and one week later my levels of hemoglobin and hematocrit were 17 and 49%. I continued supplementing with DHEA and pregnenolone and I decided to go to the Red Cross and donate today. They pricked my finger and my hemoglobin was 19.3 holy crap! I have never been that high in my life and I didn't even feel weird or symptomatic, I felt totally fine. Anyways I donated a pint today which probably means my hemoglobin is down to around 17-18 seeing as whenever I donate it usually drops my hemoglobin down around 1.5 give or take. Moral of the story is pregnenolone and DHEA supplements will absolutely Jack the hell up your hematocrit and hemoglobin. Be careful out there guys!!!
 

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What doses are you using? How do you know it’s not the trt raising it?
 
Punkrocker

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What doses are you using? How do you know it’s not the trt raising it?
I been on trt for 4 years now. It's not the trt. I was taking 30mg pregnenolone every day and 25mg DHEA every other day. My hematocrit increases on trt slightly, but not like this. This new added supplementation jacked me the hell up. Careful if you are considering using these supplements
 
Godstrength

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I been on trt for 4 years now. It's not the trt. I was taking 30mg pregnenolone every day and 25mg DHEA every other day. My hematocrit increases on trt slightly, but not like this. This new added supplementation jacked me the hell up. Careful if you are considering using these supplements
Didn't you also do a thread where you had high hematocrit and blamed it on the hcg when someone suggested the test? And that you said you've had constant issues w high hematocrit?
 
Punkrocker

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Didn't you also do a thread where you had high hematocrit and blamed it on the hcg when someone suggested the test? And that you said you've had constant issues w high hematocrit?
Yes hcg raises my hematocrit very high which is why I tried using DHEA and pregnenolone in place if it which also seems to jack it up even worse. When I use just straight testosterone without HCG or any other supplements my hematocrit always stays within range. Every time I've ever had hematocrit problems I have been on HCG. Apparently DHEA and pregnenolone Are also causing problems. HCG causes of DHEA and pregnenolone to be produced in the body. I'm wondering if these specific hormones have something to do with red blood cell production
 

BlockBuilder

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There are many people who use DHEA while on TRT with no problematic increases in hematocrit. May just be an isolated individual reaction unfortunately
 
Punkrocker

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There are many people who use DHEA while on TRT with no problematic increases in hematocrit. May just be an isolated individual reaction unfortunately
Yeah this sucks. I wanted to start hcg again but with a 19.3 hemoglobin level, even after donating a pint I'm still probably on the higher end of normal. I already made an appointment for another donation exactly 8 weeks from today. No hcg and the dhea pregnenolone supplements are already in the trash lol
 
kenpoengineer

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There are many people who use DHEA while on TRT with no problematic increases in hematocrit. May just be an isolated individual reaction unfortunately
Agree, I’m one of them and experience no hematocrit increases. I dose 25 mg pregnenolone and 59 mg DHEA daily.
 
Punkrocker

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Agree, I’m one of them and experience no hematocrit increases. I dose 25 mg pregnenolone and 59 mg DHEA daily.
Damn bro. Well I dunno why this happens to me. My trt is 80mg every 3 days. More like 90mg actually because I pull the plunger just slight past the 80mg mark. My total test is 700 on my low day which means it's probably around 1100 on the high day. I used to be on a much higher dose of test. I never had any issues until I added HCG to the mix. Apparently DHEA and pregnenolone also suck for me. At this rate I'll never be able to do another cycle. I'll be donating every 2 months until July!
 
Godstrength

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Damn bro. Well I dunno why this happens to me. My trt is 80mg every 3 days. More like 90mg actually because I pull the plunger just slight past the 80mg mark. My total test is 700 on my low day which means it's probably around 1100 on the high day. I used to be on a much higher dose of test. I never had any issues until I added HCG to the mix. Apparently DHEA and pregnenolone also suck for me. At this rate I'll never be able to do another cycle. I'll be donating every 2 months until July!
It seems to me the test may be the culprit. I mean the common factor in both instances is the testosterone. Granted adding HCG or DHEA May exacerbate the problem but it seems the test is the underlying correlation. Also a common side but you already know that I'm sure.
 
Punkrocker

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It seems to me the test may be the culprit. I mean the common factor in both instances is the testosterone. Granted adding HCG or DHEA May exacerbate the problem but it seems the test is the underlying correlation.
You're right bro. I should just forget about the past 4 years I been on trt and all the blood work I've had over the years with and without HCG and other supplements. Me, my doctor and all the labwork showing trends of my hematocrit levels in relation to what I've been putting into my body must be all wrong eh? Guess it's just the test.
 
jameschoi

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What are the symptoms of low DHEA and pregnenolone
 
Punkrocker

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What are the symptoms of low DHEA and pregnenolone
Not exactly sure but my levels were low and I was feeling a bit low energy and libido. When I started supplementing with them I felt better but after this crazyness I won't be taking them ever again. HCG produces dhea and pregnenolone for you naturally anyway
 
Godstrength

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You're right bro. I should just forget about the past 4 years I been on trt and all the blood work I've had over the years with and without HCG and other supplements. Me, my doctor and all the labwork showing trends of my hematocrit levels in relation to what I've been putting into my body must be all wrong eh? Guess it's just the test.
So basically my issues have always been increased hematocrit but I currently have that in check with a crit of 49

^^^

You did write this in your last thread didn't you?

So you're saying basically been on trt you've always had issues with high hematocrit but it's the HCG and the DHEA not the test
 
Punkrocker

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So basically my issues have always been increased hematocrit but I currently have that in check with a crit of 49

^^^

You did write this in your last thread didn't you?

So you're saying basically been on trt you've always had issues with high hematocrit but it's the HCG and the DHEA not the test
Yeah I wasn't aware that my level would be flying up due to supplementing with DHEA/pregnenolone. Trt is something you learn as you go. It's definitely not a one size fits all therapy.
 
Punkrocker

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Andthe reasons the issues were increased hematocrit were due to the use of HCG. when the use of HCG was discontinued, my trending labwork showed no significant increase in hematocrit. Although what did end up happening is my DHEA and pregnenolone levels started to drop as I discontinued HCG. I started feeling a little bit low energy and my libido wasn't very good either. Instead of getting back on HCG I decided to supplement with DHEA and pregnenolone and my hematocrit soared once again. I have pretty much figured out why this happens to me and wanted to post this to inform others just in case they could have a similar reaction to this supplementation.
 
kenpoengineer

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Is it possible you have developed sleep apnea?

I’m also using HCG at 250 IU every 3.5 days with no increase in hematocrit either.

There is a FB group called Testosterone Replacement Therapy Discussion you should join and post this.
 
Punkrocker

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Is it possible you have developed sleep apnea?

I’m also using HCG at 250 IU every 3.5 days with no increase in hematocrit either.
I don't know. I could look into that but ever since I've used HCG from day one it would jack me up. I hope I don't have sleep apnea, that would suck
 
kenpoengineer

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I don't know. I could look into that but ever since I've used HCG from day one it would jack me up. I hope I don't have sleep apnea, that would suck
Agree it would suck. I’ve read posts from TRT users saying they developed sleep apnea after starting TRT.
 
Punkrocker

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Agree it would suck. I’ve read posts from TRT users saying they developed sleep apnea after starting TRT.
I'm gonna make an appointment to see my doc in the next couple weeks. Gonna have her check my DHEA pregnenolone levels and also see where I stand in the hematocrit range now. I bet I'm still high, but probably not about to die high. Can't believe I was 19.3! I totally felt fine. Weird.
 
kenpoengineer

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From a post I read:
“If your hematocrit is above 50 and you have not donated blood yet: Avoid iron supplements. B-12 may also increase the body's ability to produce red blood cells. Omega-3 fatty acids and a daily baby aspirin could be considered for blood thinning (but they do not replace the need for blood donation/ phlebotomy)”
 
Punkrocker

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From a post I read:
“If your hematocrit is above 50 and you have not donated blood yet: Avoid iron supplements. B-12 may also increase the body's ability to produce red blood cells. Omega-3 fatty acids and a daily baby aspirin could be considered for blood thinning (but they do not replace the need for blood donation/ phlebotomy)”
Yeah man. I'm gonna assume my crit is probably around 50-54% at this time since I've donated today. I'm just gonna stay hydrated and follow up with my doctor. I got another donation appointment in March. I think I'll survive. I made it to 19.3 feeling fine. I've also heard stories of guys who have been in the 20s and still didn't die lol. Anyways, I do 5 grams of fish oil daily and my cholesterol is very good. High hdl and low ldl. Blood pressure is normal too. Just gonna keep the fluid intake high, talk to the doc in a couple weeks, avoid HCG and DHEA pregnenolone like the plauge and possibly cut back on the red meat.....possibly...
 
kenpoengineer

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Sounds like a plan. Make sure your iron levels are tested. Frequent blood donation can crash ferritin and iron. It happened to me after donating 4 times when I thought I’d be proactive and keep hematocrit low (like an idiot).
 
Punkrocker

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Sounds like a plan. Make sure your iron levels are tested. Frequent blood donation can crash ferritin and iron. It happened to me after donating 4 times when I thought I’d be proactive and keep hematocrit low (like an idiot).
I actually remember you saying something about that a while ago. I remember like last year I had my ferritin checked and it was on the lower end but still in the normal range. Definitely something I should watch out for but back in 2012 I was stabbed during a fight and I lost two liters of blood that night. I was ****ed up for quite a while but eventually I made a full recovery. I'm going to assume my ferritin was probably pretty damn low at that time hahaha. I think in 2 months from now with a diet high in vegetables, hopefully I can keep my ferretin within the normal range or at least low-normal.
 
kenpoengineer

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RipdnTxs

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My new TRT specialist informed me that RBC and Hemo. ranges are way overblown. He stated its Platelets are the one to watch and worry about. People who live at extremely high altitudes have higher levels than your highest, with no problems. Something to think about !!!
 
Punkrocker

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My new TRT specialist informed me that RBC and Hemo. ranges are way overblown. He stated its Platelets are the one to watch and worry about. People who live at extremely high altitudes have higher levels than your highest, with no problems. Something to think about !!!
Interesting you say that. A nurse once explained to me about how the platelets can cause a clot due to increased hematocrit. My platelets are always in the 200 area which is in the middle normal range so I guess that's good
 
kenpoengineer

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Hey man, how often did you donate when your iron crashed?
Early in my TRT treatment I figured I’d proactively ward off high hematocrit by donating. Red Cross allows whole blood donation every 56 days. I donated 4 consecutive times and had a routine doctor visit. My doctor tested for iron/ferritin and found I was iron anemic. He panicked and was going to send me to an oncologist thinking I may have cancer. I explained about the blood donation and he ordered me to stop donating. After almost two years or iron supplements, my ferritin is just now a the low normal level.
 

RipdnTxs

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Early in my TRT treatment I figured I’d proactively ward off high hematocrit by donating. Red Cross allows whole blood donation every 56 days. I donated 4 consecutive times and had a routine doctor visit. My doctor tested for iron/ferritin and found I was iron anemic. He panicked and was going to send me to an oncologist thinking I may have cancer. I explained about the blood donation and he ordered me to stop donating. After almost two years or iron supplements, my ferritin is just now a the low normal level.
Thats exactly what happened to me, after giving blood every 8 weeks for almost a year. I went for a physical and y Dr. reacted the same way. My Ferritin was around 10 when we caught it , after 6 months its back to around 60. Interesting stuff !!!
 
kenpoengineer

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Thats exactly what happened to me, after giving blood every 8 weeks for almost a year. I went for a physical and y Dr. reacted the same way. My Ferritin was around 10 when we caught it , after 6 months its back to around 60. Interesting stuff !!!
It’s amazing how fast blood donation can crash iron levels. Here is MyBloodTracker app graph showing where I’m at:
 

RipdnTxs

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Interesting you say that. A nurse once explained to me about how the platelets can cause a clot due to increased hematocrit. My platelets are always in the 200 area which is in the middle normal range so I guess that's good
I believe the top range on platelets is 400. My platelets came back at 210 and my new Dr said that was a great reading and no worries...
 

RipdnTxs

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It’s amazing how fast blood donation can crash iron levels. Here is MyBloodTracker app graph showing where I’m at:
Its taking a little longer for U to get back into range, but it looks like ur heading in the right direction...
 
kenpoengineer

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Its taking a little longer for U to get back into range, but it looks like ur heading in the right direction...
Yes but driving me crazy! Workouts are not what they used to be as I’m still iron anemic. Been on iron supplements daily and ferritin is still low.
 
Punkrocker

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Crushed ferritin levels is definitely something that sounds pretty lousy. Although like I said before, years ago I was stabbed and lost two liters of blood in one night and I survived that and after only a couple months I was already back in the gym lifting weights again lightweight of course. I'm sure after losing 2 liters of blood I had like 0 ferritin at all so after being through something like that I don't seem too worried about dropping a pint of blood maybe every 2 to 3 months. Maybe I'll eat more spinach and lentils as dark leafy vegetables increase ferritin but do not jack up the hemoglobin like meat does according to stuff I read online. Just a thought
 
u_e_s_i

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All right guys so I recently found out my DHEA and pregnenolone levels were low this past summer. I am on trt and was unable to donate blood until October 2017. I avoided using HCG because it raises my hematocrit. Instead I supplemented with DHEA and pregnenolone seeing as my levels were low. I donated a pint of blood November 1st and one week later my levels of hemoglobin and hematocrit were 17 and 49%. I continued supplementing with DHEA and pregnenolone and I decided to go to the Red Cross and donate today. They pricked my finger and my hemoglobin was 19.3 holy crap! I have never been that high in my life and I didn't even feel weird or symptomatic, I felt totally fine. Anyways I donated a pint today which probably means my hemoglobin is down to around 17-18 seeing as whenever I donate it usually drops my hemoglobin down around 1.5 give or take. Moral of the story is pregnenolone and DHEA supplements will absolutely Jack the hell up your hematocrit and hemoglobin. Be careful out there guys!!!
What would be the side-effects of your hemoglobin being at 19.3? Is that outside the normal range?
Would you have too much oxygen? I've heard that can have ill effects
 

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What would be the side-effects of your hemoglobin being at 19.3? Is that outside the normal range?
Would you have too much oxygen? I've heard that can have ill effects
Is your Hb 19.3? I'm assuming that's why you are asking. That's a bit high. I wouldn't be concerned with hyperoxia nearly as much as I would worry about blood thickness. .17.5g/dL is the high limit for Hb. That Hb value translates to about 57.9% hct. I try to stay in the high 40s, as 54% is the high limit, and you are close to running into problems when you get there. I'd donate some blood.
 
u_e_s_i

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Is your Hb 19.3? I'm assuming that's why you are asking. That's a bit high. I wouldn't be concerned with hyperoxia nearly as much as I would worry about blood thickness. .17.5g/dL is the high limit for Hb. That Hb value translates to about 57.9% hct. I try to stay in the high 40s, as 54% is the high limit, and you are close to running into problems when you get there. I'd donate some blood.
OP said his was 19.3 and seemed concerned. Personally I don't know much about hb but I'm keen to learn more. Thanks for the summation
 
kenpoengineer

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OP said his was 19.3 and seemed concerned. Personally I don't know much about hb but I'm keen to learn more. Thanks for the summation
I’m a little confused by your reply. If your hemoglobin is that high (which translates into very high hematocrit) then you need to donate blood as soon as possible. High hematocrit CAN result in stroke or worse.
 
u_e_s_i

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I’m a little confused by your reply. If your hemoglobin is that high (which translates into very high hematocrit) then you need to donate blood as soon as possible. High hematocrit CAN result in stroke or worse.
Punkrocker
 
Punkrocker

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I was 19.3 at the red Cross. I have since donated one pint of blood. I have not been retested but I would assume that I am probably 17-18 now, and yes I'm talking about hemoglobin. My hematocrit was probably around 57% which now I am gonna guess is somewhere in the 50-54% range. Still kinda high, but definitely manageable now. Keep the water flowing and I'll donate again in March. Haven't checked my ferretin but I feel alright so I'm gonna assume it's not tanked.
 
Punkrocker

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Sounds like a plan. Make sure your iron levels are tested. Frequent blood donation can crash ferritin and iron. It happened to me after donating 4 times when I thought I’d be proactive and keep hematocrit low (like an idiot).
Hey bro I forgot to ask you. When you crashed your ferretin, did you feel messed up? Or did you feel totally fine and had no clue until the doctor just ran basic blood work and found it. Could you gimme some details please. Thanks
 
kenpoengineer

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Hey bro I forgot to ask you. When you crashed your ferretin, did you feel messed up? Or did you feel totally fine and had no clue until the doctor just ran basic blood work and found it. Could you gimme some details please. Thanks
I felt a distinct lack of energy and unwillingness to complete my lifting sessions. Tired by the afternoon.
 
Punkrocker

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I felt a distinct lack of energy and unwillingness to complete my lifting sessions. Tired by the afternoon.
Ok so basically you had some general fatigue and were kinda dragging your feet during your workouts. Did you feel like you had some serious problem or did you just think you needed to get more rest
 
kenpoengineer

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Ok so basically you had some general fatigue and were kinda dragging your feet during your workouts. Did you feel like you had some serious problem or did you just think you needed to get more rest
Simply felt tired even after sleeping 10 hours.
 
Punkrocker

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Simply felt tired even after sleeping 10 hours.
Ok. I'm scheduled for another donation in mid March which is exactly 8 weeks after my last donation. I don't wanna drain my ferretin so maybe I'll cancel and put it off one more month. I recently tested my hemoglobin and after I donated that pint my hemoglobin is 16.1 and hematocrit 48% which is surprising considering how high it was before I donated. Anyways, I'll probably donate again in April and in the meantime eat a hell of alot of spinach and steaks. Whaddaya think?
 
kenpoengineer

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Good plan. Experts say you can wait until hematocrit goes above 53. Take a look:
IMG_3499.jpg
 
Punkrocker

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Good plan. Experts say you can wait until hematocrit goes above 53. Take a look:
View attachment 159762
Yeah actually I printed that chart out lol I wanna get my crit nice and low because I plan on running a 20 week EQ cycle and we know that will bump up hematocrit so I wanna be prepared for it. I wanted to take more aggressive anabolics this year but I now get regular heart palpitations. I've had a Holter monitor, ekg, echocardiogram, cholesterol test etc... Everything checks out normal. Aparantly you can have heart palpitations and they can be totally benign. Anyways, they scare me anyways so instead of running dbol or Anadrol I'm gonna take it easy on my body and just run a mild dose of EQ and get the most out of it by utilizing the fork and knife and training consistently.
 

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Is it possible you have developed sleep apnea?

I’m also using HCG at 250 IU every 3.5 days with no increase in hematocrit either.

There is a FB group called Testosterone Replacement Therapy Discussion you should join and post this.
What does sleep apnea have to do with it? Just curious.
 
kenpoengineer

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What does sleep apnea have to do with it? Just curious.
One side effect with sleep apnea is, since apnea is literally starving the body for oxygen, the body responds by creating more red blood cells. The increase in RBCs show as increased hematocrit.
 

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