Cracking joints?

[pete073]

Hey guys,
I had very low testosterone/estrogen for approximately 2 years, during that time my joints started making clicking and cracking noises, like my ligaments were loose. When it first started it was bearable, but now several years later it has gotten soo bad it is debilitating. Everyday is a struggle for me, I am in pain and everything feels soo loose I feel like my body is going to drop to the floor, I thinks its that my ligaments are not holding like they should, my neck is the worst since most movement occurs there. I have no clue how I been like this for soo long, it is suffering. I am not into working out or big muscles so I am quite hesitant about taking higher doses of testosterone, I just want to be healthy and thriving. I notice that when I take higher dosages of testosterone my joint issues start to subside, but the dose has to be around 150mg-200mg per week, right now I am on 50mg twice per week and it does nothing for me, as soon as I increase to 200mg a week the joints get better, but I hate to be on the higher dose because I feel it's supraphysiological and may do harm. I am starting to think having low testosterone for soo long depleted reserves of some sort and now I require a lot to overcome the deficit. I am considering the higher dose for a few months then gradually taper down to a physiological dose and see if my joint issues do not return. Any suggestions? Thanks..

 

[THOR 70]

This is a tough one man. Seem like you have hyper mobility issues. I would focus on just joint health basics supplements. Bone broth and collagen + vitamin c are the building blocks for cartilage. Make sure your vitamin D is high. Even try 20,000ius for a few days, can't hurt. Sulfer/msm/glucosamine. Maybe get into an orthopedic or rheumatologists to rule out autoimmune conditions. Sorry I can't be more help. Never heard of this before

 

[Br1ck_Sh1thouse]

Maybe try some flexatril or genoflex?

 

[kisaj]

Did you have a DEXA scan before starting TRT? If you had low test and estrogen knowingly for that long, it may be good to do. This was part of my initial stages prior to getting on TRT and the test is cheap. This will test for any bone loss or weakening, which can be associated with bad joint health.

 

[pete073]

Did you have a DEXA scan before starting TRT? If you had low test and estrogen knowingly for that long, it may be good to do. This was part of my initial stages prior to getting on TRT and the test is cheap. This will test for any bone loss or weakening, which can be associated with bad joint health.

Yes, thanks for your response. I only had mild osteopenia of the hips, nothing significant. The test was done several years ago.

 

[pete073]

I have tried all types of joint supplements and nothing helped, I increased to 100mg twice per week, I will let you guys know how it goes. I did all types of arthritis and autoimmune tests all came back negative.

 

[The Matrix]

Look up EDS, getting a lot of these cases.
Again there are underlying factors altering a cluster of gene expressions. Current involved in a reseach study with these genes. Seeing a high correlation with Lyme and mold exposure.

 

[celc5]

Damn, Lyme's is the plague this yr. I have a friend who got bit by a tick, almost died. And infectious disease just shrugs their shoulders and says "random infection." Is this the type of Lyme's mutation u are looking at? I'm sure u could articulate better than how I posed my question.

 

[pete073]

Look up EDS, getting a lot of these cases.
Again there are underlying factors altering a cluster of gene expressions. Current involved in a reseach study with these genes. Seeing a high correlation with Lyme and mold exposure.

Thanks for your response. Yes, I have looked into EDS, my joints/skin is not overly flexible, for example I cannot pull back my thumb, nor overly flex my elbows. I am going to try a mineral supplement, since ignorantly I ate zero carbohydrates for 2 years, maybe I am mineral depleted.

 

[pete073]

Thanks guys for your help, it keeps me going.

 

[pete073]

As for lyme disease, I live in South Florida, I have never seen any type of bite/bulls eye or anything of that sort on anypart of my body.

 

[The Matrix]

Pete
I am well educated and extremely well as adverse in Lyme and coinfections. I can tell you personally 90% of cases do not get bullseye. It's a myth a any doctor who tells you do is uneducated in Lyme providing misinformation. I find few cases of Lyme and coinfections each week over looked by medical doctors. Lyme come from chiggers, flies, spider, fleas ticks, and humans. I am highly active in the Lyme community with many clinics and highly respected LLMDS world wide. I work people in Canada to help pass bills to help coverage for insurance. Lyme basically does not exist medically in Australia or Canada. Doctor i knew just lost his license in Australia trying to treat Lyme. When addressing Lyme, we focus on mold parasite if present then Lyme. Many times mold triggers the Lyme/coinfections. South Florida is mold central as several cases with mold reactions had to move out of the state because health issues. After moving they are finally improving. People need to take this more serious as I lost a few people to Lyme and also black mold. 15 and 17 years old commit suicide one year apart. They were born sons of a single mom. It was heart wrenching...

 

[pete073]

Pete
I am well educated and extremely well as adverse in Lyme and coinfections. I can tell you personally 90% of cases do not get bullseye. It's a myth a any doctor who tells you do is uneducated in Lyme providing misinformation. I find few cases of Lyme and coinfections each week over looked by medical doctors. Lyme come from chiggers, flies, spider, fleas ticks, and humans. I am highly active in the Lyme community with many clinics and highly respected LLMDS world wide. I work people in Canada to help pass bills to help coverage for insurance. Lyme basically does not exist medically in Australia or Canada. Doctor i knew just lost his license in Australia trying to treat Lyme. When addressing Lyme, we focus on mold parasite if present then Lyme. Many times mold triggers the Lyme/coinfections. South Florida is mold central as several cases with mold reactions had to move out of the state because health issues. After moving they are finally improving. People need to take this more serious as I lost a few people to Lyme and also black mold. 15 and 17 years old commit suicide one year apart. They were born sons of a single mom. It was heart wrenching...

Now that you mention no bulls eye, there is something on my forearm that originally I thought something bit me, even now a decade later it swells, feels like a bump in that area, but it may be nothing. How do I test for lyme?

 

[The Matrix]

Damn, Lyme's is the plague this yr. I have a friend who got bit by a tick, almost died. And infectious disease just shrugs their shoulders and says "random infection." Is this the type of Lyme's mutation u are looking at? I'm sure u could articulate better than how I posed my question.

Lyme triggers gene expressions
I have seen several hundred complex cases of Lyme. We often see the common "jeckly and Hyde" neurological conditions a lot. Some time I get cases of severe neurological behaviors where it may have even ended up people in the looney bin. Upon further evaluation we find its Lyme. When properly treated neurological symptoms reduce and they are able to be functional humans. Genetics load the guns and stress from Lyme pulls the trigger ..

 

[kenpoengineer]

Curious what your current estradiol level is? You mentioned that a heavy dose of testosterone gives joint relief. Could it be the correspondingly increase in estradiol that is the reason?

 

[pete073]

Curious what your current estradiol level is? You mentioned that a heavy dose of testosterone gives joint relief. Could it be the correspondingly increase in estradiol that is the reason?

Thanks for your response, The last time I checked a few months ago it was 28 and that was after taking HCG for a while. I upped the dose to 100 mg twice per week to see if that will help, I administered the first dose on Thursday, have not gotten any relief. Thinking of trying pregnenolone, someone in another forum mentioned it helped.

 

[jameschoi]

Stinging nettle root? A guy on amazon bought swanson stinging nettle root and had his bloods checked and saw a huge rise in his test. You can see his review on amazon and he shows his chest pics lol.

 

[pete073]

Stinging nettle root? A guy on amazon bought swanson stinging nettle root and had his bloods checked and saw a huge rise in his test. You can see his review on amazon and he shows his chest pics lol.

Hey, yes I saw the review, looks promising.

 

[The Matrix]

By increasing testosterone you increase free T which may be compensating for high SHBG if present
When working with lyme cases high SHBG is common in males and women. Some cases appear to be lyme, but addressing the hormones where able to help the symptom thought to be lyme. This prevented them from going down the road of antibiotics creating a whole other mess

 

[pete073]

By increasing testosterone you increase free T which may be compensating for high SHBG if present
When working with lyme cases high SHBG is common in males and women. Some cases appear to be lyme, but addressing the hormones where able to help the symptom thought to be lyme. This prevented them from going down the road of antibiotics creating a whole other mess

Which tests do you recommend for lyme detection?

 

[The Matrix]

Which tests do you recommend for lyme detection?

Secret to finding lyme is not directly, but indirectly.
I use MDL for western blot IGG/IGM or Armin labs for Eli spot for Lyme B, bartonella, or Babesia. I know I am talking greek
This is all second nature for me. LOL
Testing is not the issue, its the interpretation doctors are clueless on in 95% of the case missed.
If your symptoms are getting resolved then it a step in the right direction, but often we see since underlying pathology has not been identified benefits may be short lived

 

[pete073]

Secret to finding lyme is not directly, but indirectly.
I use MDL for western blot IGG/IGM or Armin labs for Eli spot for Lyme B, bartonella, or Babesia. I know I am talking greek
This is all second nature for me. LOL
Testing is not the issue, its the interpretation doctors are clueless on in 95% of the case missed.
If your symptoms are getting resolved then it a step in the right direction, but often we see since underlying pathology has not been identified benefits may be short lived

So how much are you saying it costs to detect lyme?

 

[pete073]

So how much are you saying it costs to detect lyme?

When you mention underlying pathology are you referring too other issues other than lyme?

 

[pete073]

I do not think my SHBG is high, my free test is high on a low dose of testosterone.

 

[The Matrix]

Then this is often associated low thyroid or insulin resistance which needs to be further evaluated. Very little information was mentioned as it would difficult to provide sensible feed back.
Lyme testing is usually dictate if history and symptoms are appropriate.

 

[benfica88]

Hey guys,
I had very low testosterone/estrogen for approximately 2 years, during that time my joints started making clicking and cracking noises, like my ligaments were loose. When it first started it was bearable, but now several years later it has gotten soo bad it is debilitating. Everyday is a struggle for me, I am in pain and everything feels soo loose I feel like my body is going to drop to the floor, I thinks its that my ligaments are not holding like they should, my neck is the worst since most movement occurs there. I have no clue how I been like this for soo long, it is suffering. I am not into working out or big muscles so I am quite hesitant about taking higher doses of testosterone, I just want to be healthy and thriving. I notice that when I take higher dosages of testosterone my joint issues start to subside, but the dose has to be around 150mg-200mg per week, right now I am on 50mg twice per week and it does nothing for me, as soon as I increase to 200mg a week the joints get better, but I hate to be on the higher dose because I feel it's supraphysiological and may do harm. I am starting to think having low testosterone for soo long depleted reserves of some sort and now I require a lot to overcome the deficit. I am considering the higher dose for a few months then gradually taper down to a physiological dose and see if my joint issues do not return. Any suggestions? Thanks..

I too have gone through this exact scenario...
Pain only goes away at 200mg/wk.

 

[celc5]

Matrix, u mentioned anti biotics causing another mess. Are u referring to something other than reducing intestinal bacteria?

 

[The Matrix]

Matrix, u mentioned anti biotics causing another mess. Are u referring to something other than reducing intestinal bacteria?

Correct, This would be commonly referred to as dysbiosis potentially resulting into hidden candida and yeast infection--> NAFLD

 

[celc5]

Matrix, thanks for answering so many questions bro! This is incredible learning!

If I may ask, what would your thoughts be on this case...

Man removes tick that was likely present for several days. No appetite, painful neuropathy of all limbs, swollen feet, almost dies. Lyme's negative and recovers with aggressive anti biotic.

Status post, patient consults infectious disease, rheumatology, hematology, and oncology. The ONLY abnormal labs are light chain proteins. Can this be lyme's? All physicians are pretty much saying "you're getting better, so oh well"

 

[The Matrix]

I get same nonsense "my infection disease, immunologists and laundry list of others medical professions say I do not have Lyme" blah blah
How long was treatment?
What antibiotics where used?
What methods did they identify that Lyme was gone? Normal blood testing is inaccurate
Was it just Lyme? Or did he have mycoplasma bartonella babesia or other viral load that may have been triggered.
Honestly my clinical experience with traditional medicine identify status of Lyme is extremely poor or incompetent.

FYI if you think magically 28 days of doxy is get rid of Lyme you are seriously mistaken. Wish ful thinking

 

[celc5]

You have confirmed my concern in this case. Thanks for the response.

In a totally seperate case of actually confirmed Lyme's disease, can there be a link to the Lyme's causing severe Tinnitus?

 

[THOR 70]

THEmatrix
With all your knowledge, if you had to recommend the best mainstream diet/way of eating for overall health and life extension, which would it be?

 

[The Matrix]

Tinnitus is a common red flag I hear with lyme, providing the history and symptoms correspond
Often lipo-flavonoids can used to help as well as addressing the infection directly. If lipo flavonoids are unsuccessful then probability of other increases

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2041438

 

[The Matrix]

THEmatrix
With all your knowledge, if you had to recommend the best mainstream diet/way of eating for overall health and life extension, which would it be?

intermitted fasting with Modified Paleo style (gluten, soy, dairy free with 100% organic and GMO foods), with high antioxidants, polyphenols, good balance of omega 6,3,9 with GLA, along with fish a few times a week