TRT + Serm for Perserving Testicular Function

drew16669

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Ok, so I know that HCG is commonly used with testosterone to preserve function. Due to HCG being an analog of LH the leydig cells will pick this up the same as LH produced from the pituitary. My question is why is it that people say SERMS like Clomid and Tamox won't essentially do the same thing? I understand the negative feedback loop- but if my understanding of Clomid is correct, it will bind and fill to the estrogen receptors in the brain that regulate the feedback loop- therefore not allowing the brain to sense enough estrogen- in since releasing GNRH telling the pituitary to produce more LH/FSH. If the brain never receives the estrogen why does it matter that we are injecting exogenous testosterone? What am I missing in this equation?
 
kenpoengineer

kenpoengineer

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Best write up I've seen:

I have seen misinformation on Clomid too often - Men on TRT taking Clomid thinking that it will keep their testes producing testosterone (T) while on TRT. WRONG. Let me try to clear up this mess.

T production is controlled by the hypothalamus-pituitary-testicular axis (HTPA). I like to analogize the HPTA regulation of androgens and estrogens to a room thermostat.

Thermostat clicks ON = When the hypothalamus (H) senses that estrogen (E) is too low, it releases Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH), which tells the pituitary (P) to release luteinizing hormone (LH), which in turn tells the balls to make T. Some of this T will be aromatized into E.

Thermostat clicks OFF = When E levels are adequate, the H stops releasing GnRH. This means that nothing is telling the P to release LH. That in turn, means nothing is telling the testes to make T.

How does Clomid raise T levels? It tricks the H such that it doesn’t see as much E as is there. So relative to my thermostat analogy, Clomid causes the thermostat to GET STUCK IN THE ON POSITION for longer than it would normally. Thus, more GnRH--->more LH--->more--->T production.

What happens when you take Clomid while on an APPROPRIATE AMOUNT of TRT? Well, I left something very important out in my thermostat analogy. You see, the H senses androgens as well as E. So when you are on TRT, the exogenous T shut the HTPA. So, properly-dosed TRT causes the thermostat to be stuck in the OFF position. Take all the Clomid you want, the HTPA will not respond b/c it is suppressed by the exogenous T. Sure Clomid will still blind the H to your Estrogen. However, in this case It won’t matter. The HTPA is shut.
Justin Saya Rand McClain Nelson Vergel Gene Devine
 

drew16669

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Ok so the androgens will in a sense override the lack of estrogen, that was the missing piece of the puzzle for me, thank you. Guess I need to change over to HCG, currently on a failing clomid restart. Will be going back to TRT on my next checkup- Dr. wants to give it 3 more weeks, however I feel like total ****, so unless something changes- which I doubt- ill be requesting HCG instead of the clomid(he offered to use Test + Clomid if the clomid mono fails as it is cheaper than HCG).
 

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