Clomid as TRT + 5/3/1 Log

[ryox82]

Good morning all,

I have been doing alot of searching and haven't seen much about clomid as TRT with people that lift. Peak testosterone has some solid information about clomid as TRT but I can't be sure that what some of the guys report there are also working out as well. I figured if it might help I would start a little log here and talk about my gym progression.

My two test numbers for T were 269 and 288. Insurance is covering the clomid which is making a cheap solution even cheaper. Doc started me at 25mg eod. First dose was yesterday.

I am running Jim Wendlers 5/3/1 with the BBB template and am just wrapping up cycle 2. I have been making PR's even with the low T, which I attribute to the program and consistency. The one thing that has given me trouble is losing fat, so it will be nice to see if this makes a difference. I am currently in the gym 4 days a week for 5/3/1, and have a session with a trainer on Saturdays. Try to fill in with some stepper cardio in between.

Current estimated 1RM according to the program.
Squat 351
Bench 210
Deadlift 350 - Tested. Estimated is lower.
OHP 147

Height is 5 10, Weight 220, 34 years old.

Today's workout looked like this

Squat day

Warm up sets
145 x5
185 x5
210 x3

Main sets
245 x5
280 x3
310 x4 Weight and Rep PR

BBB Sets
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10

Leg Curls
60 x12
60 x12
60 x12

Leg Press
200 x12
200 x12
200 x12


Tomorrow is OHP and that will wrap up cycle #2. Next week is a deload, which might not be much fun BUT I will include it anyways.

 

[ryox82]

Today was a really simple day. Second clomid dose of 25mg. Don't feel any different yet.

OHP

Warm Ups
45 x5
60 x5
80 x3

Main Sets
90 x5
100 x3
115 x10 I clearly underestimated my 1RM when setting the program up because this is the second time I break past my estimated finishing 1RM by about 20 pounds.

BBB Sets
60 x10
60 x10
60 x10
60 x10
60 x10

Front Raise
20 x10
20 x10
20 x10

Lateral Raise
15 x10
15 x10
15 x10

 

[user567]

Give it 2 weeks. You will look more cut (water dropping) and your muscles will feel hard because of this. You will definitely see fat loss. Step up cardio as your T comes up

 

[ryox82]

Wife actually got me a Fitbit that I like to use to track the heart rate during workouts. I keep rest at 60 seconds, or at least try to. I started adding more cardio so I am on top of that. Might be in my head, but, I didn't get the lethargy I usually get late morning, early afternoon. Could have been the extra hour of sleep though.

 

[ryox82]

Today was an intense circuit workout with my coach. I follow my program during the week. He likes to do 21's and make me nearly throw up Saturday afternoons. Tomorrow is an off day but I may do some walking or do some low speed stepper work at the gym.

 

[ryox82]

Today begins deload. Not heavy by any stretch but plenty of reps.
Last clomid dose was yesterday. I also received a package from Amazon yesterday with my Vit D3, Grapeseed extract, and DIM. That is all I am taking besides creatine with my shake in addition to the clomid. Not sure with the later two should be one or the other, but we will see how they impact bloods if at all.

Deadlift

Warm UP
120 x5
150 x5
180 x3

Main Lift
120 x5
150 x5
180 x5

BBB
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10

Dumbell Row
37.5 x10
37.5 x10
37.5 x10

Row Machine
85 x12
85 x12
85 x12


Kept rest at 60 seconds and it honestly had me sweating more than I anticipated. This might have to do with our Peruvian pork brunch and the few beers I had yesterday than anything else. You could not even feel a buzz and the weights will remind you that you drank anyways. So dumb, but they were so delicious.

 

[ryox82]

Woke up at 4 AM and took my dose of clomid, 5000 ui of D3, 100 mg DIM, 200 mg grapeseed extract. Got some meal prep out of the way and hit up the gym by 4:45. Weight was down to 218.6 after a salty pork filled Sunday and a few beers so I was surprised by that. Diet is cleaned up for the rest of the week.

Bench Press Warm Up
75 x5
95 x5
115 x3

Main Sets
75 x5
95 x5
115 x5

BBB Sets
95 x10
95 x10
95 x10
95 x10
95 x10

Close Grip Bench
85 x10
85 x10
85 x10

Incline Bench
80 x10
80 x10
80 x10

Dumbell bench
40 x10
40 x10
40 x10

Feel silly basically just repeating the warm up for my power sets but it's only for a week. Right now my BBB sets are based off of 50% of my training max. Anybody have any input about uping that? I was thinking next week I would set it up to be 3 weeks at 60%, or maybe ramp up. Week 1 50%, week 2 60%, week 3 70%.

 

[ryox82]

Off day today. Still wake up at 4 AM to get the day started. Packed up some food, took care of the hygiene stuff and woke the wife. Sex felt better for sure and didn't require an almost heart attack to finish. Even she noticed a difference. So far this is doing it's job it seems. I know that there is a 2 week honeymoon period with clomid but I am hoping that this is a good sign. We shall see.

 

[ryox82]

Just another boring deload day. Wondering if I should move this to another section where I might get some more input.

Squats

Warm Up Sets
130 x5
165 x5
195 x3

Main Sets
130 x5
165 x5
195 x5

BBB Sets
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10

Leg Curls > Bumped these up 20 lbs because 60 was too light.
80 x12
80 x12
80 x12

Leg Press
200 x12
200 x12
200 x12

 

[ryox82]

I can see why people are tempted to skip deload weeks. So boring. Glad that this is a wrap and can look forward to 6 more weeks of progress.

Overhead Press

Warm Up Sets
50 x5
60 x5
75 x3

Main Sets
50 x5
60 x5
75 x5

BBB Sets
60 x10
60 x10
60 x10
60 x10
60 x10

Front Raise
20 x10
20 x10
20 x10

Lateral Raise
15 x10
15 x10
15 x10

I am going to raise my OHP training max by ten pounds the next two cycles to try and get myself in line instead of the usual 5. I'll probably drop it back down to 5 lb increments after that so I don't end up stalling.

 

[ryox82]

Had a little fun with some deadlift singles on Saturday with my coach. New PR of 370. The way things are going I will be over 400 before the end of the year.

 

[ryox82]

Today was deadlift day. I did not make any adjustments to my training max based off of Saturdays result.

Deadlift

Warm Up Sets
120 x5
155 x5
185 x3

Main Sets
200 x5
230 x5
260 x5. I could have gotten more on this and I should have. Completely forgot.

BBB Sets
155 x10
155 x10
155 x10
155 x10
155 x10

Dumbell Row
37.5 x10
37.5 x10
37.5 x10

T-Bar Row
85 x12
85 x12
85 x12

Got on the stepper for about 10 minutes and got out. We have a blizzard heading our way tomorrow and into Wednesday. Trying to figure out if I should try to do bench day after work in case I can't get into the gym the next two days. Any thoughts on that?

 

[ryox82]

Gym was closed Tuesday due to the non snowstorm so I went today.

Bench Press

Warm up sets

80 x5
100 x5
115 x3

Main Sets

125 x5
145 x5
165 x6

BBB Sets
100 x10
100 x10
100 x10
100 x10
100 x10

Close Grip Press
85 x10
85 x10
85 x10

Dumbbell Press
40 x10
40 x10
40 x10

Incline Bench Press

80 x10
80 x10
80 x10

 

[ryox82]

Squat day is the best day. Getting a funk burning on the outside of the right knee. I altered my stand and have my toes pointing more forward and having a bit more of a forward knee. That took the feeling away. Not sure if that's going to be acceptable or not.

Squat

Warm Up
135 x5
170 x5
200 x3

Main Set
220 x5
250 x5
285 x7

BBB Set
170 x10
170 x10
170 x10
170 x10
170 x10

Leg Curls
80 x12
80 x12
80 x12

Fun times otherwise.

 

[ryox82]

Friday I had to run in to the gym after work and crush shoulders in about 15 minutes since I had to be up at 3 AM to make it for a meeting in Connecticut.

OHP

Warm Ups
55 x5
65 x5
80 x3

Main Sets
85 x5
100 x5
110 x12

Boring But Big
65 x10
65 x10
65 x10
65 x10
65 x10

This morning I did deadlifts

Warm Up
120 x5
155 x5
185 x5

Main Sets
215 x3
245 x3
275 x5

Boring But Big Sets
170 x10
170 x10
170 x10
170 x10
170 x10

Dropped the assistance to the assistance exercises. Getting a little too beat up with that. Clomid may have done it's job already. Wife is prego but we are not announcing anything to people we know for 4 or 5 more weeks. Who needs sleep anyways?

 

[ryox82]

Bench day is Tuesday to avoid bro's waiting by the bench until I finish.

Warm ups
Bar x10
80 x5
100 x5
115 x3

Main Sets
135 x3
155 x3
175 x7

Boring But Big Sets
105 x10
105 x10
105 x10
105 x10
105 x10

I know I said I wasn't going to do assistance for the assistance work...but bench has always lagged, so I kept two.

Close Grip Bench
105 x10
105 x10
105 x10

Incline Bench
105 x10
105 x8
105 x10

Usually go alot lighter on those movements, wanted to try to get some improvement there. About 11 doses in to clomid and the initial high of it is gone. Interested what blood work will show when that happens. With my experience and understanding of it now, I am not sure why more people who continuously cycle don't just stay on clomid between cycles. If you can use it for TRT and stay on it for months or years, there shouldn't be any more harm in staying on it between cycles.

 

[sammpedd88]

I don't know if anyone that has stayed on clomid forever. It's normally used to jump start your natural production to try and prevent going on TRT.

 

[ryox82]

I don't personally either, but my TRT clinic has patients on clomid at low doses for multiple years. The Types of doses that people normally associate with PCT are way too high and a good way to get your E2 out of line. I didn't realize it was an option until I went to the clinic and mentioned I wanted to preserve fertility as long as possible. My clinic was willing to go the test cyp route right away but were open to trying clomid, then HCG if it doesn't work optimally, and then test. Peak testosterone has alot of info on this.

 

[sammpedd88]

I don't personally either, but my TRT clinic has patients on clomid at low doses for multiple years. The Types of doses that people normally associate with PCT are way too high and a good way to get your E2 out of line. I didn't realize it was an option until I went to the clinic and mentioned I wanted to preserve fertility as long as possible. My clinic was willing to go the test cyp route right away but were open to trying clomid, then HCG if it doesn't work optimally, and then test. Peak testosterone has alot of info on this.

Hey I'm for anyone trying every possible route before TRT. I've been on TRT for nearly 5 years and have an excellent dr for the last 3.5 years. The first year and a half I was stuck with uneducated Dr's who knew very little about TRT. Sometimes I wish I could go back and try something like clomid but it's too late now. Keep us posted if you decide to stay on low dose clomid.

 

[ryox82]

I have my 5/3/1 cycles planned out for the year, so I will keep this updated for sure.

 

[sammpedd88]

Awesome

 

[B5150]

I don't personally either, but my TRT clinic has patients on clomid at low doses for multiple years. The Types of doses that people normally associate with PCT are way too high and a good way to get your E2 out of line. I didn't realize it was an option until I went to the clinic and mentioned I wanted to preserve fertility as long as possible. My clinic was willing to go the test cyp route right away but were open to trying clomid, then HCG if it doesn't work optimally, and then test. Peak testosterone has alot of info on this.

People are of the believe that more SERM is better. Then of course they feel that an AI is need, and its true, because of the elevated estrogen from to high of a dose.

Many studies show that half the doses are needed but what good are studies for.

I'm also on TRT but I'd be interested in seeing your free testosterone next bloodwork as that is the true measure of available testosterone.

 

[ryox82]

Yeah I hear you and I will post those blood work results when that happens. I am also taking DIM, Grapeseed extract and Vit D3 with no AI yet, so I am curious to see if they have any effect on E2 levels at all. I thought the 25 EOD dose was on the high end since I thought we would start at 12.5 and re-asses, but until that appointment everything is speculation. I am not having any negative issues so far and that is a plus.

 

[Spurfy]

Yeah I hear you and I will post those blood work results when that happens. I am also taking DIM, Grapeseed extract and Vit D3 with no AI yet, so I am curious to see if they have any effect on E2 levels at all. I thought the 25 EOD dose was on the high end since I thought we would start at 12.5 and re-asses, but until that appointment everything is speculation. I am not having any negative issues so far and that is a plus.

I like to blast a SERM for the first few days and then taper dose down to E3D. I use toremifene, 15 mg E3D and keep my T over 850 -- and I've cycled numerous times. SERMs are very, very good drugs when dosed properly for those who are secondary.

 

[ryox82]

Squat day once again! My knees are feeling pretty ****ty for only squatting once a week. Last week I felt a slight burn on the outside of my right knee. I altered my feet to point a little more forward and I completely avoided that feeling in my right knee...to only have my left knee have a slight pain after squatting towards the bottom front. It's actually slightly tender to the touch while the right one I couldn't feel pain via touch. Hope I haven't ****ed anything up. Pain is very minor but I pay attention to EVERYTHING. No pain no gain is bull**** when it comes to your joints.

Warm up sets
Bar x10
135 x5
170 x5
200 x3

Main Sets
235 x3
270 x3
300 x6

Boring But Big
185 x10
185 x10
185 x10
185 x10
185 x10

30 pull ups. 60 lb assist cause I'm a fat bastard. Going to try to get 30 reps in the least amounts of sets possible at the end of every work out. They say the things you need to do are usually the things you are not doing, so why not.

Dead.

 

[ryox82]

I'll drop this here for anyone that is interested
[video=youtube;0ZyptAoqnJw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZyptAoqnJw[/video]

 

[ryox82]

Deadlift day is the best day.

Warm Ups
120 x5
155 x5
185 x3

Main Sets
230 x5
260 x3
290 x4

As I said before, my max pull is up to 370, so it's going to be a few months until I hit that in training. Looking forward to that.

Boring But Big Sets
185 x10
185 x10
185 x10
185 x10
185 x10

The ramping up of the BBB percentage really makes the 3rd week of the cycle feel like a challenge. Did 30 assisted pull ups after with what little grip I had left.

 

[ryox82]

Yesterday was bench day. Keep pushing it and maintaining weight. Can't lose weight for the life of me but as long as I am getting stronger without gaining more fat, that'll do for now.

Warm up Sets
80 x5
100 x5
115 x3
115 x3

Main sets
145 x5
165 x3
185 x6. Finally approaching that 2 plate 1RM. Going to stick to the program and build up to it slowly. I've sucked at bench for the longest.

Boring But Big Sets
115 x10
115 x10
115 x10
115 x10
115 x10

Close Grip Bench
115 x10
115 x10
115 x10

Incline Bench
115 x10
115 x10
115 x10

Incorporating lat pull downs or pull ups to end every workout. Goal is to get 30 reps no matter how many sets it takes. Progression will be for weight, then sets, then time.

Lat Pull Down
165 x10
165 x10
165 x10

Today is a rest day.

 

[ryox82]

OOooo also , got my knee sleeves in from Amazon for this Thursdays squat day. Hope it will help with my slight knee discomfort that I don't want getting worse. It was starting to cause compromises in form and hesitation. No bueno for a max effort week. Going to shoot for 320 x5 for my top set depending on how it feels. Fingers crossed. Everything since 285 has been uncharted territory so I am still getting used to the feeling of this on my back.

 

[ryox82]

Forgot to do Thursday and Friday's updates!

Last Thursday was squat day with my new sleeves! Felt awesome, no pain!

Squat Day
Warm Ups
135 x5
170 x5
200 x3
200 x3

Main Sets
250 x5
285 x3
320 x4 <--PR again

Boring But Big Sets
200 x10
200 x10
200 x10
200 x10
200 x10

Friday was OHP

Warm Ups
55 x5
65 x5
80 x3

Main Sets
100 x5
110 x3
125 x8 <---PR!

Boring But Big Sets
80 x10
80 x10
80 x10
80 x10
80 x10


Today was Deadlift day after a weekend in Atlantic City fueld by beer and cheeseburgers. I did NOT want to lift this morning, let alone get out of bed come 4 AM. Still, it was the start of Cycle 4, week 1

Deadlifts

Warm Ups
125 x5
160 x5
190 x3

Main Sets
205 x5
235 x5
270 x7

Boring But Big sets
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10

No missed reps despite feeling like ****. Focused on technique as much as possible, and I was glad I had got myself to the gym instead of sleeping in by the end of it.

 

[ryox82]

Just some fun the the coach on Saturday outside of regular programming. We usually do metabolic type workout circuits but sometimes we mix it up.
[video]https://www.instagram.com/p/BSowoeOAjkO/?taken-by=ryox82[/video]

 

[ryox82]

Took yesterday off since we did dead lifts on Saturday and I went to the Marc Anthony concert sunday night and wasn't getting up at 4 AM after getting home at midnight.

Cycle 4 Week #2
Dead lifts

Warm Ups
125 x5
160 x5
190 x3

Main Lifts
220 x3
255 x3
285 x6

Boring But Big
175 x10
175 x10
175 x10
175 x10
175 x10

Looking forward to next week already. Ramping up the percentages on the boring but big sets has really been making a difference as well.

 

[ryox82]

Bench press today and I always do ****ty here. I have been eating at maintenance or slightly below most days. Pretty sure I was over last night a little.

Warm ups
45 x5
80 x5
100 x5
120 x3

Main Sets
140 x3
160 x3
180 x4 Was supposed to hit 8 to beat the 1RM. Def wasn't happening today. Shoulders went flat/bad setup. That would have only been a one or two rep difference though. Dissapointing.

Boring But Big sets
110 x10
110 x10
110 x10
110 x10
110 x10

Lat Pull downs
126 x11
126 x11
126 x9

Not gonna over think it too much. Just going to keep plugging away and try not to over eat in the want to up the weight.

 

[ryox82]

I don't know what the hell I was thinking. I had another couple over last night for dinner and a few drinks. Still woke up and got to the gym for squat day on my heaviest week. Ugh. Still hit all sets and reps though. Let's call this practice for my short vacation at the end of the month. Contacted Cigar City CrossFit and I can do a few drop in's while I am in Tampa even though I don't crossfit.

Warm ups
45 x5
140 x5
170 x5
205 x3

Main Sets
260 x5
295 x3
325 x3

Boring But Big Sets
205 x10
205 x10
205 x10
205 x10
205 x10

Lat Pull Downs
126 x11
126 x11
126 x10

^Going to increase the weight on those next week.

I will say, I feel better at the office this morning than I would have if I skipped out today, but I did gas out rather quickly.

 

[nova6868]

Are you going to do any follow-up labs?

I'm in a similar situation, T is 280. Free is 6.5. 40 years old. Also train 531 BBB and OL. Trying to decide about therapy, don't want TRT yet.

 

[ryox82]

Are you going to do any follow-up labs?

I'm in a similar situation, T is 280. Free is 6.5. 40 years old. Also train 531 BBB and OL. Trying to decide about therapy, don't want TRT yet.

Yes I will be doing follow ups. Any decent TRT clinic would mandate it. Not sure how I feel about Clomid at this point. I am about to head to the gym. Will update when I get to the office.

 

[ryox82]

So, wife is pregnant and it's a boy. Yay. In contract on a dream house. I can say I am happy about those things but I don't FEEL happy, or any type of excitement. I am wondering if the clomid is ****ing with my head in some way. No real body comp changes toward the positive but diet has not been strict at all. Strength has still been climbing and I have been consistent with the gym. Just wrapped up cycle 5 week 2 today.

 

[Justlooking5]

Good morning all,

I have been doing alot of searching and haven't seen much about clomid as TRT with people that lift. Peak testosterone has some solid information about clomid as TRT but I can't be sure that what some of the guys report there are also working out as well. I figured if it might help I would start a little log here and talk about my gym progression.

My two test numbers for T were 269 and 288. Insurance is covering the clomid which is making a cheap solution even cheaper. Doc started me at 25mg eod. First dose was yesterday.

I am running Jim Wendlers 5/3/1 with the BBB template and am just wrapping up cycle 2. I have been making PR's even with the low T, which I attribute to the program and consistency. The one thing that has given me trouble is losing fat, so it will be nice to see if this makes a difference. I am currently in the gym 4 days a week for 5/3/1, and have a session with a trainer on Saturdays. Try to fill in with some stepper cardio in between.

Current estimated 1RM according to the program.
Squat 351
Bench 210
Deadlift 350 - Tested. Estimated is lower.
OHP 147

Height is 5 10, Weight 220, 34 years old.

Today's workout looked like this

Squat day

Warm up sets
145 x5
185 x5
210 x3

Main sets
245 x5
280 x3
310 x4 Weight and Rep PR

BBB Sets
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10
160 x10

Leg Curls
60 x12
60 x12
60 x12

Leg Press
200 x12
200 x12
200 x12


Tomorrow is OHP and that will wrap up cycle #2. Next week is a deload, which might not be much fun BUT I will include it anyways.

Thanks I am on clomid 25mg ED for hypogonadism as well. I'll be following this.

 

[ryox82]

Thanks I am on clomid 25mg ED for hypogonadism as well. I'll be following this.

Every day? I am every other day. Have any estro issues?

 

[bluestaffy09]

Hows your libido on this dose? Im thinking of doing 12.5 eod. Ive had lowish test for a few years hoping clomid may help

 

[Justlooking5]

Every day? I am every other day. Have any estro issues?

Every day for a few weeks and then I'm going to try switching to 25mg EOD.

I'm not having any estro issues although I had a few instances of feeling like crying lol.

However, I do feel like my libido is even lower relative to pre-clomid when I already felt it was kind of low. I have started taking Nettle to see if it helps with this (to free up more T if clomid is raising SHBG).

Energy is better, mood is better, anxiety is much better, ED seems somewhat better. However I don't quite feel what I would expect to feel if my testosterone was actually higher, though it's been a long time since I've been on gear so I don't have a recent way to compare how I should feel on high test levels.

I basically feel like clomid has helped with fatigue, anxiety, and depression, but I don't feel that testosterone aggression, sex drive, etc.

How about you ryox? How are you feeling on 25mg EOD?

 

[Justlooking5]

Hows your libido on this dose? Im thinking of doing 12.5 eod. Ive had lowish test for a few years hoping clomid may help

It should help at least somewhat if you're secondary hypo (testes function but hypothal/pituitary underproducing gonadotropins)

 

[ryox82]

Hows your libido on this dose? Im thinking of doing 12.5 eod. Ive had lowish test for a few years hoping clomid may help

That's a good starting dose and standard for alot of people.

EDIT: Libido wise, I am not where I used to be for sure.

 

[bluestaffy09]

Is clomid bad for libido? Read so many different posts some saying its bad and others saying not so bad. Also is an a.i needed?

 

[ryox82]

Is clomid bad for libido? Read so many different posts some saying its bad and others saying not so bad. Also is an a.i needed?

Depends on the person. They usually start you without and go off blood tests

 

[nova6868]

Are any of the supplement AIs worth a damn anymore?

Androst 3,5-dien-7,17-dione or Arimistane?
I hear arimidex just kills libido for many guys. Possibly too good at eliminating estrogen.

 

[ryox82]

Are any of the supplement AIs worth a damn anymore?

Androst 3,5-dien-7,17-dione or Arimistane?
I hear arimidex just kills libido for many guys. Possibly too good at eliminating estrogen.

DIM isn't worth a damn anymore I hear. My doc has me in rapeseed extract. No idea if it's doing anything though

 

[nova6868]

My doc has me in grapeseed extract.

I probably want to stay away from that, there is some evidence that it inhibits protein synthesis if taken before exercising.

 

[ryox82]

I probably want to stay away from that, there is some evidence that it inhibits protein synthesis if taken before exercising.

I haven't bought a new bottle of that. Wonder if you could just time it better.

 

[ryox82]

[video]https://www.instagram.com/p/BVK2tRigr5E/[/video]
Finally hit the 400 pound dead lift and I had a agreement with myself that when I did I would adopt a keto diet and get down to at least 15%. Numbers might stagnate for a bit but a lower body fat will only help me be more hormonal optimal. Despite my current size all of my health markers are really good going by my last blood test.