Low Test (lab results posted)

[kafahmy]

Why is my Test level always low no matter what i do ? What bothers me the most is my "free Test." Level

I'm a healthy 27 years male (220 lbs with Fat% around 20%) , i've been lifting regularly for almost 3 years. It has always be so hard to put on muscle mass and so easy to gain fat in the abdominal, love handles and thighs areas no mater how clean I eat or hard I exercise .

I ran many OTC test boosters in the past (only time i've seen real results in terms of leaning out and adding strength ) and 1 mild prohormone cycle ( over 18 month ago and i ran a proper PCT)

I got myself checked about a year ago and my test level was 380
I followed all the advices found online (workouts , nutrition and supplementation) but no significant improvement.

I've got my hands on some clomid and i was thinking to self administer 12.5 EOD for 6 month and see how it goes but i realized that my LH is not low at all so now i doubt the effectiveness of such treatment.

Any suggestions, tips or hints would be much appreciated, i'm sick of the low lipido,low energy and fat accumulations around my stomach and thighs everytime i eat a slice of pizza.

 

[booneman77]

Why is my Test level always low no matter what i do ? What bothers me the most is my "free Test." Level

I'm a healthy 27 years male (220 lbs with Fat% around 20%) , i've been lifting regularly for almost 3 years. It has always be so hard to put on muscle mass and so easy to gain fat in the abdominal, love handles and thighs areas no mater how clean I eat or hard I exercise .

I ran many OTC test boosters in the past (only time i've seen real results in terms of leaning out and adding strength ) and 1 mild prohormone cycle ( over 18 month ago and i ran a proper PCT)

I got myself checked about a year ago and my test level was 380
I followed all the advices found online (workouts , nutrition and supplementation) but no significant improvement.

I've got my hands on some clomid and i was thinking to self administer 12.5 EOD for 6 month and see how it goes but i realized that my LH is not low at all so now i doubt the effectiveness of such treatment.

Any suggestions, tips or hints would be much appreciated, i'm sick of the low lipido,low energy and fat accumulations around my stomach and thighs everytime i eat a slice of pizza.

When you got your levels checked, what did the doc say?

380 is def low, but not like cripplingly low. Depending on the doc, they may not truly see this as "treatment" level of low but if it's negatively impacting your life, you should be able to explain that to them and get support. If not, get a new doc

 

[kafahmy]

380 was a year ago
It's currently at 460 ( 348-1147)
Free test 9.3 ( 9.3- 26.5)
LH 7.6 (1.7 -8.6)
Fsh 4.4 (1.5-12.4)

My doctor only tested total test and it was at 470 few weeks ago and refused to run more tests because 470 is apparently normal for a healthy 27 years old !
I did all the tests on my own (discounted lab)
I'm not considering TRT that's for sure i just hope i can push it to the upper 600s

 

[booneman77]

380 was a year ago
It's currently at 460 ( 348-1147)
Free test 9.3 ( 9.3- 26.5)
LH 7.6 (1.7 -8.6)
Fsh 4.4 (1.5-12.4)

My doctor only tested total test and it was at 470 few weeks ago and refused to run more tests because 470 is apparently normal for a healthy 27 years old !
I did all the tests on my own (discounted lab)
I'm not considering TRT that's for sure i just hope i can push it to the upper 600s

Well, whatever you've done over the last year has raised it very significantly. 380 to 470 is a pretty good boost for not having taken anything hormonal. Really the only suggestion would be to work to lower bf a bit more, really perfect your diet, and focus on lifestyle improvements.

At 470 not many docs would really do anything like hrt/trt. You really shouldn't be having terrible issues with mass or fat loss/gain at that level so I think there could be some other factors involved like diet or sleep.

 

[kafahmy]

I very much appreciate ur input yet the question remains: even if 470 is ok to live with, why my free test is as the lowest normal range...it is literally at the border line

 

[kafahmy]

Bump any suggestions before I go ahead with the Clomid ?

 

[Br1ck_Sh1thouse]

Bump any suggestions before I go ahead with the Clomid ?

What's to hurt by trying it out and see what happens?

 

[Mr.TT]

I would add 3000iu's of D3 and test again in 3 months.
It would be nice to know your DHEAs (sulfate) and Pregnenolone.
What Meds (script or no-script) do you use? Alcohol?
It is good that the LH is up, the HP part of your HPTA is working.

 

[kafahmy]

-I've added 5000iu now and also will up my zinc intake although my Estradiol is in a good place.
-i'l can get DHEA and Pregnenolone tested as well if necessary , could they be an indication for something critical ?
-no medications at all and alcohol is very limited...i'd drink once or twice /month
-LH is high but total and free test low u think the clomid is worth trying ?

 

[kafahmy]

Clomid works by forcing ur body to produce more LH. Mine is not low to begin with so why messing with sonething working while ignoring the main problem...i might be wrong though that's why i'm seeking help from the more knowledgeable people on this form

 

[Mr.TT]

I would not use Clomid to push up my LH.
IMHO since your LH is high in range, your hypothalmus and pituitary glands are trying to raise your Test.
So, what is stopping your gonads from making more TEST??????
DHEA or DHEAs?? If those are low, it is easy to supplement.
Pregnenolone is the DHEA precursor, so if cost is not an issue, I would test that also.

Have you ever had a testicular injury?

 

[kafahmy]

I'm pretty sure i got tested for DHEA a year ago and it was within range but on the low side , I'd better get it checked again ..thx for pointing at that !
No Testicle injury, I was obese during my childhood all the way till my freshman year though, this might be a factor i guess.

 

[Mr.TT]

I have personally had inaccurate E2 blood test results on LabCorp's "estradiol sensitive" test.
Many people on here have had the same low E2 result on this test, and recommend the cheaper normal Estradiol test.


But, if your E2 was actually high, I would not expect your high LH.

 

[Todd Garner]

How are your stress levels and sleeping pattern. Both can greatly affect your test levels.

 

[kafahmy]

But, if your E2 was actually high, I would not expect your high LH.

I'd expect a much leaner physique with low Estradiol ,i may need to retake that one as u mentioned.
Anything else I should reconsider other than DHEA and regular Estradiol?

 

[kafahmy]

How are your stress levels and sleeping pattern. Both can greatly affect your test levels.

7-8 hours of sleep on weekdays and 9 hours on the weekends

Stress currently is normal ,i wanted to get cortisol tested as well but my wallet is starting to feel lighter already

 

[Mr.TT]

DHEAs (Sulfate) ----- My Dr. will always order the DHEA only test, which is not worth much. He doesn't know better.
Well, High SHBG will cause highish TT but low FT and frequently low E2.
Low SHBG will cause low TT, and unusual lab results on your other hormones .
TEST SHBG.

Have you ever taken DHT suppressors???? (anti-hair-loss meds)

R U buying these tests online? PRIVATEMDLABS?

 

[kafahmy]

DHEAs (Sulfate) ----- My Dr. will always order the DHEA only test, which is not worth much. He doesn't know better.
Well, High SHBG will cause highish TT but low FT and frequently low E2.
Low SHBG will cause low TT, and unusual lab results on your other hormones .
TEST SHBG.

Have you ever taken DHT suppressors???? (anti-hair-loss meds)

R U buying these tests online? PRIVATEMDLABS?

-Will get the SHBG and DHEA Sulfate tested
-i used discountedlab.com (they use lab corp facilities )
-i have a pretty good insurance but my doctor sucks..it's like she's paying for my blood work out of her pocket, so i just did what i need on my own
Thx for ur help man, really appreciated!

 

[CatSnake]

what's your cholesterol?

do you eat eggs very often?

if you're not doing so, that might be an easy way to provide some of the basic building blocks to increase your test....

FWIW, it's sucks to hear you're dealing with "low-ish" testosterone.... the range the medical community established is so broad that it really negatively affects younger guys who are struggling.

if you're not able to raise this through natural means, you might want to talk to an "anti-aging" clinic, and see what they can do for you.

 

[bad rad]

You could possibly have impaired testes function.

 

[kafahmy]

You could possibly have impaired testes function.

I Sincerely hope not !

 

[initialize]

You could possibly have impaired testes function.

I Sincerely hope not !

That's what my immediate thought was when I looked at your blood work. Take it with a grain of salt as I'm no doctor, but your LH and FSH levels look good, but somehow your testes aren't responding like they should.

I would recommend posting your labs on the T-nation forums in the TRT section. There's a member there, his username is KMan or KsMan if I remember correctly, that has a ton of knowledge on this stuff. He'll help you out for sure (there's a ton of other members there too that know their stuff)

 

[Todd Garner]

Get a test for Heavy Metal toxicity

 

[kafahmy]

That's what my immediate thought was when I looked at your blood work. Take it with a grain of salt as I'm no doctor, but your LH and FSH levels look good, but somehow your testes aren't responding like they should.

I would recommend posting your labs on the T-nation forums in the TRT section. There's a member there, his username is KMan or KsMan if I remember correctly, that has a ton of knowledge on this stuff. He'll help you out for sure (there's a ton of other members there too that know their stuff)

Great hint!
Thank you

 

[robaca]

Not sure if this has any bearing but my Dr. told me that checking your T in the afternoon will show lower than in the morning. I am awaiting my results in which bloods were taken around 2PM. He said if low then we can test again in the AM. FYI: I went there for urology exam and since he drew blood for prostate PSA check, I threw that T test in there as well. Waiting for results.

 

[kafahmy]

Not sure if this has any bearing but my Dr. told me that checking your T in the afternoon will show lower than in the morning. I am awaiting my results in which bloods were taken around 2PM. He said if low then we can test again in the AM. FYI: I went there for urology exam and since he drew blood for prostate PSA check, I threw that T test in there as well. Waiting for results.

You're right, I did mine at 9am

 

[robaca]

You're right, I did mine at 9am

Well then it should be accurate. I'd like to know too as I'm about the same weight and BF%. I did a SARMS cycle in which I feel it really suppressed me. 2 years ago my free T was 740. I'm waiting for my bloods to come in to see where I'm at now. I did a Clomid and Nolva 4 week PCT. Libido, erections, fat around mid section and mood went to **** around the end of cycle and PCT. Everything has come back though but find it really hard to shed the excess BF. I just started to incorporate HIIT training at the end of each workout. Let's see if that can jump start the fat burning.

And WTF! My Dr's. office was supposed to email me yesterday with lab results. Still waiting. Guess I've got to call, again.

 

[The Matrix]

You need to look at detailed history, symptoms and labs to get a better clinical picture. With dealing with few thousand cases underlying pathology comes down to a combination of pathogens, environmental exposures or poor lifestyle choices. Addressing hormone is fine, but doctors are often using it as a bandaid and not looking at why testosterone levels are low. After a while as many are seeing the bandaid falls off. If you are going to get a heavy metals test then you need a pre and post provocation test with DMPS OR DMSA through an IV to truly get an accurate reading . I had several cases of mold / fungal toxicity once resolved hormone pathways balanced back out with out supplementation. This has also occured with heavy metal chelation

 

[robaca]

Got my T test result back and it is at 779. That plus PSA was the only thing on the test. I will probably go for a more detailed test soon.

 

[The Matrix]

Total test is worthless unless there is SHBG and E2 present as well as other parameters to validate its functionality
The higher test goes so does SHBG as they go in lock step as this should be evaluated
SHBG is a binding protein that raises when there is an inflammatory response.

 

[robaca]

Hence the need for a full test. When I asked the urologist to get me a T test I thought the other stuff was a given. I'll just have to see my GP and ask for a full blood, soup to nuts.

 

[cstallion]

How are your stress levels and sleeping pattern. Both can greatly affect your test levels.

^^^This. Poor sleep hygiene can drastically manipulate your hormones. Same with stress too. And do you drink tons of energy drinks or other caffeinated beverages? Excessive caffeine consumption raises cortisol, which in turns hurts T levels to an extent.

 

[kafahmy]

You need to look at detailed history, symptoms and labs to get a better clinical picture. With dealing with few thousand cases underlying pathology comes down to a combination of pathogens, environmental exposures or poor lifestyle choices. Addressing hormone is fine, but doctors are often using it as a bandaid and not looking at why testosterone levels are low. After a while as many are seeing the bandaid falls off. If you are going to get a heavy metals test then you need a pre and post provocation test with DMPS OR DMSA through an IV to truly get an accurate reading . I had several cases of mold / fungal toxicity once resolved hormone pathways balanced back out with out supplementation. This has also occured with heavy metal chelation

This is getting out of control, doctors assume they know the best and won't do a test you ask for, how do I get a preand post provocarion test throuh IV on my own.
Also based on my results do you think administrating clomid 12.5 EOD for 6 month would be of any benifit ?
Thank you Matrix for taking the time to do so. I've been following all ur posts on here, you are such a knowledgeable person !

 

[kafahmy]

Got my T test result back and it is at 779. That plus PSA was the only thing on the test. I will probably go for a more detailed test soon.

U lucky bastard ?

 

[Mr.TT]

do you think administrating clomid 12.5 EOD for 6 month would be of any benifit ?

I'm not MATRIX... But, IMHO your LH is not the problem, so using CLOMID (or any SERM or even hCG) to boost your LH level, seems wrong.
Besides, you run the risk of desensitizing your,( already underfunctioning ), Leydig cells. From your labs, you do not appear to be SECONDARY HYPOGONADAL.

So, what causes PRIMARY HYPOGONADISM? Genetics, Injury, Alcohol and Drug use, Starvation, Infection, Stress (cortisol), Excess Exercise.

It is your FT to E2 ratio number that I look at most. And it is apparent that your HP portion of your HPTA is trying to increase your FT and E2 levels.
A lack of available DHEA could explain low TT production when your LH is highish. Stress could explain low DHEA levels.

OK, you get your FT, TT, SHBG, E2(not sensitive), DHEAs (sulfate), and LH, numbers and you may narrow this down.

 

[The Matrix]

Clomid will increase shbg which is not a good thing. Again shbg goes up in gut and liver inflammation not seen on blood work. With alk phosp low then is a huge indicator of endocrine system imbalance which commonly associated with low thyroid or adrenals. I would suggest getting a ZRT 4 point cortisol test done then look at lifestyle and other daily stresses. Just changing the source of water supply in many cases resolves the issue due to some areas have higher concentration of pharmaceutical or industry toxins in the client's area. I had a doctor fly who was training with us. We hosted them for a week in our house. 3 days there they felt a lot better. The water they were drink is 3.50 per gallon. It's more then a gallon of gasoline. We also have special air machines purifiers to remove mycotoxins or pathogens as well as showering with special shower filtering heads. Our house has been specifically modified to remove any environment toxin or exposure.

 

[kafahmy]

I'll go get tested on Friday and will post my results here when they come back. Thank u Mr.TT !

 

[kafahmy]

Clomid will increase shbg which is not a good thing. Again shbg goes up in gut and liver inflammation not seen on blood work. With alk phosp low then is a huge indicator of endocrine system imbalance which commonly associated with low thyroid or adrenals. I would suggest getting a ZRT 4 point cortisol test done then look at lifestyle and other daily stresses.

I tested Thyroid functions ,T3 and T4 they came back within range.

Other than the tests suggested by Mr.TT along with cortisol test ,would you suggest any other tests At the moment ?
Thank you sir

 

[The Matrix]

I tested Thyroid functions ,T3 and T4 they came back within range.

Other than the tests suggested by Mr.TT along with cortisol test ,would you suggest any other tests At the moment ?
Thank you sir

Normal means crap. Thyroid in blood measures 20% function does not measure other 80%.

 

[kafahmy]

Ok everyone i'll go get the recommended tests on Friday and will post my results here, this process seems much more complicated than what i anticipated and it sucks that most doctors are not aware of all of this coz apparently having a test level of a 60 years old when u're still in ur mid 20s is "normal"

I'll keep this post alive and will post all my results and trials until i get my damn problem fixed so hopfully this would serve as a reference for any other dude facing the same problem i'm facing

Thank you everyone for your help so far

 

[The Matrix]

Treat the symptoms and paper not the person is the most common problem we are seeing in medicine today..
Doctors with in the system are going to have to change their mind set as new breed of practitioners are coming up.

 

[619sss]

I don't recommend you try clomid even at doses less than 25mg daily, I tried it a try twice, the side effects overcame the benefits of the test boost. More over, after clomid usage you will have a crash for at least 2 months.

My current test 309

 

[619sss]

I am not sure if nolvadex will help on sensitizing your balls, but read on. Clomid desensitizes

 

[The Matrix]

The average dosage being used is 12.5 eod or every 3 day. The reason people crash is they are not addressing the underlying causes as well as providing the body the nutrients to make hormones. Hormoned imbalances are often witness to the crime. Doctors are specialists not generalist looking at the entire picture and history. You can not get a full history in less then 30 mins to be clinically significant. When doing the proper foundational work for 2/3 months with a doctors patient then starting them on clomid or incombination provides the best environment to maintain levels. It's only common sense, but only a few doctors actually put ego down and work to do to what is right for their patient

 

[619sss]

The average dosage being used is 12.5 eod or every 3 day. The reason people crash is they are not addressing the underlying causes as well as providing the body the nutrients to make hormones. Hormoned imbalances are often witness to the crime. Doctors are specialists not generalist looking at the entire picture and history. You can not get a full history in less then 30 mins to be clinically significant. When doing the proper foundational work for 2/3 months with a doctors patient then starting them on clomid or incombination provides the best environment to maintain levels. It's only common sense, but only a few doctors actually put ego down and work to do to what is right for their patient

Did you continue to maintain some of clomid test boost?

 

[The Matrix]

When you back file other enzyme pathways you have a greater ability to maintain levels and even can discontinue the clomid in some cases

 

[619sss]

Do you mean DHEA? I think it's also suppressive....

Before I started clomid, I did tongkat Ali Pysta 2000mg daily, after 10 days I got 400-730 test boost. I recommend you try tongkat Ali at 1000mg, but make sure you do the 5on/2off

 

[CatSnake]

I am not sure if nolvadex will help on sensitizing your balls, but read on. Clomid desensitizes

only at high doses.

the study comparing the 2 used nolva at 20 mg and clomid at 150 mg/day...

 

[drejb]

I am 27.

Same test levels as you. free test is a bit higher but barely. LH and FSH is in low normal range. Doctor just prescribed me 50mg of compounded test cream a day to try it for a month and see how I feel. My libido was pretty bad and anxiety / depression / fatigue was getting to be annoying. tried everything from diet to sleep to natty boosters (even some recommended on here) for months. Test levels didn't change.

Not sure how much it will do for me but hopefully it will make my quality of life better. The dose isn't outrageous and I'm not getting any side effects, nor should I.

It was prescribed to me without any debate

 

[kafahmy]

I might end up seeing a urologist...thanks for your input !!