TRT recommendations

[drewfuss]

I'm 36 and had a pre TRT test level of less than 23. After 6 weeks of TRT at 150/wk, I'm new at 574 test and 16.4 free T. This was drawn the morning before my injection.

What, if anything, should I be feeling with this increase and what are your recommendations for next steps?

 

[mbell4377]

Continue on the path..

 

[kenpoengineer]

On TRT for 2 years and I'm still tweaking my protocol. The hormone system is way more than just total and free testosterone. Stay the course, get proper bloodwork and check out Excelmale and PeakTestosterone dot com websites. Here is the chart so you can see where testosterone falls:

 

[kisaj]

I would not touch anything at this point. At 6 weeks, you are still adjusting and 600 levels the day of injection is quite good numbers wise. The question is how do you feel?

 

[drewfuss]

I don't feel any different. Still tire easily, maybe not as irritable, and more stamina in bed. But otherwise, not any different.

 

[mbell4377]

My endo has me taking 50mg of pregnenolone, seems to really help

 

[drewfuss]

Is pregnenolone a script or OTC? Do you take that ED or weekly? I'll mention it to him and see what he thinks.

 

[kisaj]

It is OTC and is a great addition, as well as DHEA, to your protocol. I've been taking it for years with TRT and it fills in all the holes that test on it's own cannot fill.

 

[kisaj]

It's OTC. Look at my post before this, I gave two examples.

LOLOLOL at the price on that.

OP, you can easily get benefits from sublingual supplementing for dirt cheap. Or you can also find other transdermals for 10x cheaper.

 

[drewfuss]

Thanks y'all. I'll look into these.

 

[The Matrix]

With testisterone that low it's a red flag for further evalaution of what factors may be the cause ..

 

[drewfuss]

Is there anything y'all would recommend to help with weight loss, besides the usual clean calorie deficit diet and exercise?

 

[DieselNY]

LOLOLOL at the price on that.

OP, you can easily get benefits from sublingual supplementing for dirt cheap. Or you can also find other transdermals for 10x cheaper.

Lol. Damn pricy is right.

 

[drewfuss]

TRT dose was just increased to 160/wk. He recommended waiting until my next retest before adding any other hormones or supplements into the mix. Next retest is in 5 weeks.

 

[drewfuss]

Dosage was again increased to 170/wk. I was feeling unusually tired, both physically and mentally, the last 2 days. Dr says it could be from the drastic increase of free T in my system. Original free T level was less than 1.

 

[sammpedd88]

Dosage was again increased to 170/wk. I was feeling unusually tired, both physically and mentally, the last 2 days. Dr says it could be from the drastic increase of free T in my system. Original free T level was less than 1.

Can you post your complete list of labs and levels he did? Just curious if your E2 is high or if some other levels are off as well.

 

[drewfuss]

I can post my pre TRT labs, but haven't had a complete second set ran. My retest will be in 3 weeks. I will post me pre TRT labs tonight when I get out of work and my retest labs when I get a copy.

 

[sammpedd88]

I can post my pre TRT labs, but haven't had a complete second set ran. My retest will be in 3 weeks. I will post me pre TRT labs tonight when I get out of work and my retest labs when I get a copy.

Great. That will help us help you figure things out. Sometimes Dr's are behind the curve on TRT and we can help guide you by experience and knowledge.

 

[drewfuss]

And that's the reason I'm here. Drs will start you down the right path. Many experienced minds with help fine tune your needs.

 

[drewfuss]

Pre TRT blood test

 

[drewfuss]

Ugh.....i can't post pictures or links yet

 

[The Matrix]

And that's the reason I'm here. Drs will start you down the right path. Many experienced minds with help fine tune your needs.

They often take the path of least resistance potentially making pre-existing conditions worse...SIGH

 

[drewfuss]

Sorry it's been so long. Just had my 90 day labs.

Lab. Result. Range
TT. 571. 280-1100
cFT. 20.3. 9.4-31
SHBG. 8. 10-50
E2. 32. <or= 39

I'm feeling pretty good. No longer get tired easily as the day goes on. Dose is at 170 per week. I asked about a hormone panel, but they said they only order those if there seems to be any underlying problems.

 

[drewfuss]

Sorry, those labs were drawn the morning before my injection.

 

[vkg1]

I'm on TRT and but still having libido problems, and pregnenolone and DHEA have not done anything for me. I see some mention of Andactrim above and am wondering if that might be a sensible option. It looks like it costs something like $170 a month though!?!?

Am I right about that being the neighborhood of the cost of using Andactrim for libido help on TRT? Would it be the same but much cheaper to use Proviron instead?

 

[sammpedd88]

I'm on TRT and but still having libido problems, and pregnenolone and DHEA have not done anything for me. I see some mention of Andactrim above and am wondering if that might be a sensible option. It looks like it costs something like $170 a month though!?!?

Am I right about that being the neighborhood of the cost of using Andactrim for libido help on TRT? Would it be the same but much cheaper to use Proviron instead?

Do you have regular labs done? What's your E2 level and the last time it was checked?

 

[vkg1]

For some reason my doctor doesn't want to test my E2. I realize that's a problem. But I'm in a social medicine system in my country so what I think or realize doesn't really matter much. I may find a way of visiting a private doctor. But that would be tremendously expensive and difficult. I somewhat doubt E2 is the problem though, because I would not say I am having other E2 sides and my dosage is fairly low (Nebido injection once every 10 weeks).

Is it indeed the case that Andactrim as an adjunct to TRT costs in the neighborhood of $150+ a month though? Do I really have that correct, or are people doing things in a different and more affordable way instead (e.g., Proviron or some kind of locally compounded cream alternative)?

 

[sammpedd88]

For some reason my doctor doesn't want to test my E2. I realize that's a problem. But I'm in a social medicine system in my country so what I think or realize doesn't really matter much. I may find a way of visiting a private doctor. But that would be tremendously expensive and difficult. I somewhat doubt E2 is the problem though, because I would not say I am having other E2 sides and my dosage is fairly low (Nebido injection once every 10 weeks).

Is it indeed the case that Andactrim as an adjunct to TRT costs in the neighborhood of $150+ a month though? Do I really have that correct, or are people doing things in a different and more affordable way instead (e.g., Proviron or some kind of locally compounded cream alternative)?

I don't know much about the Nebido injection but what I do know is, as exogenous test is processed in the body the levels begin to drop. That's why at minimum, TRT patients should inject once a week. Twice a week is preferred. You're probably hitting your lows fairly quickly and bottoming out. Some guys use online labs and order the female hormone panel which will give you the correct E2 test.

 

[vkg1]

Nebido is different from other forms of TRT. It is definitely designed for injections once every 3 months. I am doing it a little more frequently at once every 10 weeks. If you look at blood test results of men on Nebido the injection frequency they recommend is very sensible.

It looks like Andactrim from All Saints Clinic is about $150 per month for registered users. Why would someone use Andactrim rather than Proviron at a small fraction of the cost? There must be a reason. I'm curious what it is.

 

[bad rad]

I don't know much about the Nebido injection but what I do know is, as exogenous test is processed in the body the levels begin to drop. That's why at minimum, TRT patients should inject once a week. Twice a week is preferred. You're probably hitting your lows fairly quickly and bottoming out. Some guys use online labs and order the female hormone panel which will give you the correct E2 test.

Nebido is very different. It's undecanoate ester in caster oil, 250mg/mL x 4mL per injection. The ester, oil carrier and depot size give it about a 6 week half life. That's not a misprint. It's usually good for 10-13 weeks depending on the individual and added AI tends to extend the effective length. The US has a 3mL version that is good for 8-10 weeks.

 

[drewfuss]

So, I've been on 170/wk for 5 months now. Last week I went in and got a dose at 250, since I won't be in town this week. It's to get me they 2 weeks. This weekend, I wasn't as irritable or quick on the trigger. My girlfriend even noticed the difference. Depending on how this next week and a half go, I may plead my case for a large increase over my standard dose.

Any thoughts on why the higher dose calmed me down? Isn't that the opposite of what most feel on a higher dose?

Nothing else has changed.

 

[sammpedd88]

So, I've been on 170/wk for 5 months now. Last week I went in and got a dose at 250, since I won't be in town this week. It's to get me they 2 weeks. This weekend, I wasn't as irritable or quick on the trigger. My girlfriend even noticed the difference. Depending on how this next week and a half go, I may plead my case for a large increase over my standard dose.

Any thoughts on why the higher dose calmed me down? Isn't that the opposite of what most feel on a higher dose?

Nothing else has changed.

My best explanation would be that maybe your weekly dose isn't enough and getting a larger dose put you at a level that works for you, BUT....getting a larger dose to get you through over a week is not a good protocol at all. It's very outdated. Or it could have been a placebo effect.

Are you injecting test cyp? If so ask your Dr if you can split your weekly dose in half and inject every 3.5 days. For an example, I inject on Wednesday morning and Saturday late morning or afternoon. This will keep your test levels and E2 in check better than it would injecting weekly or every other week.

 

[drewfuss]

My doc does the injections, so I'm not able to split the dose. They use test C. My E2 is at 30, only slightly lower than my pre-trt level. I don't take any AI, since my levels are OK on the tests.

 

[sammpedd88]

My doc does the injections, so I'm not able to split the dose. They use test C. My E2 is at 30, only slightly lower than my pre-trt level. I don't take any AI, since my levels are OK on the tests.

Have you asked to do self injections? It is very common. I had no problem when I first started TRT with my urologist in getting him to allow me to self inject and he was an ass and used old protocols. Also with your E2, it's starting to creep up. "Ideal is 18-24" but of course some guys do ok slightly lower or slightly higher. Nothing is one size fits all in TRT. Search for an integrative medicine practice in your area. These places are better educated in TRT among other things. Don't be afraid to take your health care into your own hands and find another Dr. I turned away from a GP Dr who I was going to for 15 years and a urologist who is great in his field. Both lacked something and that was being on top of the changes dealing with TRT.

 

[drewfuss]

I go to the Low T Center. The 2 docs there are very personable and like that I'm interacting with them and that I am researching trt, instead of just nodding my head and being a yes man. I'll ask about the self injecting. What's the worst they can say, no? If he says no, I'll search elsewhere. But wouldn't they turn me away of I'm already getting treatment? My test levels would be too high.

 

[sammpedd88]

I go to the Low T Center. The 2 docs there are very personable and like that I'm interacting with them and that I am researching trt, instead of just nodding my head and being a yes man. I'll ask about the self injecting. What's the worst they can say, no? If he says no, I'll search elsewhere. But wouldn't they turn me away of I'm already getting treatment? My test levels would be too high.

They wouldn't turn you away as long as you tell them up front why you're leaving and what protocol you've been on. I would be shocked if a Low T center didn't allow you to self inject unless their marking money off you coming in for the injections.

 

[drewfuss]

They make the office visit fee from insurance and my $25 every week.

I'm almost tempted to order T online and self inject. It's cheaper but not quite pharma grade. But I'd be able to pay for my testing with the money savings. I'll ask about the self injecting first.

 

[sammpedd88]

Sounds good man

 

[drewfuss]

Dosage was increased to 180/wk. Next labs are on 1/12/17. Doc said we can discuss self injecting after labs come back. That's a plus in the right direction.

 

[sammpedd88]

Let us know the results of your labs when you get them done.

 

[drewfuss]

Definitely. Y'all have been very helpful so far. I've found lots of helpful information on this forum. Many thanks to everyone, even others threads.

 

[sammpedd88]

It's a good place for info man, but lately there have been some that are trying to push over priced supplements. Watch out for them!

 

[drewfuss]

If I go the route of any supps, I'll be going to local places. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[drewfuss]

Total Test 731
Free Test 17.3
PSA .38
Estradiol less than 5


Estradiol went way down, free T went down, and total T went up. This is strange to me, except fur the E2 decrease. I need to stop taking DIM. I haven't had any signs of low E, in my opinion.

They increased my weekly shot to 190mg test cyp once per week. I ask about self injection, but they don't offer it.

 

[kisaj]

I'd talk to your doc about the estradiol because that is very odd to be below range and it isn't happening from the DIM. DIM only metabolizes bad estrogens, it doesn't work like an AI to prevent estrogens from building or actually lowering them. It can come across as lowering unless you test for all estrogens, but certainly would not drop you below range. It should be looked at as a "balancer" of estrogens.

 

[drewfuss]

Thanks Kisaj, I'll call and ask about it. Do you know of any reason it may have tanked?

 

[drewfuss]

SHBG almost quadrupled, from 8 to 29. Could that have caused it?

 

[kisaj]

Not sure, you need to run this by the doc. Definitely not coming from DIM, though.

SHBG increasing would make sense to see the lower free test, but why did it quadruple? Also, you should get a sensitive estradiol lab as it is more accurate, but I definitely would question those results. I've been on Arimidex and Aromasin and never tested below 10-12, which was much too low and I was feeling it. If this is accurate, there is a reason and you would notice it because low e2 is almost worse feeling than high.

 

[drewfuss]

It's been a while since my last update. I am now on 200mg/wk. I must say, I feel very good at this point. I started having knee pain, possibly from the low E2. I believe my free T is in a good spot at this dose. I'm going to ask for bloodwork this week, to see where I am. But so far, I'm feeling much better than when I was at 160mg/wk. There may still be room for improvement, but I would prefer labs to help with my next steps. I go in Thursday morning, so will update in a couple weeks if we draw labs.

 

[drewfuss]

I've been on 200mg for 4 weeks and it's been a noticeable difference over the 190.