TRT recommendations

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by vkg1 View Post
    I'm on TRT and but still having libido problems, and pregnenolone and DHEA have not done anything for me. I see some mention of Andactrim above and am wondering if that might be a sensible option. It looks like it costs something like $170 a month though!?!?

    Am I right about that being the neighborhood of the cost of using Andactrim for libido help on TRT? Would it be the same but much cheaper to use Proviron instead?
    Do you have regular labs done? What's your E2 level and the last time it was checked?


  2. For some reason my doctor doesn't want to test my E2. I realize that's a problem. But I'm in a social medicine system in my country so what I think or realize doesn't really matter much. I may find a way of visiting a private doctor. But that would be tremendously expensive and difficult. I somewhat doubt E2 is the problem though, because I would not say I am having other E2 sides and my dosage is fairly low (Nebido injection once every 10 weeks).

    Is it indeed the case that Andactrim as an adjunct to TRT costs in the neighborhood of $150+ a month though? Do I really have that correct, or are people doing things in a different and more affordable way instead (e.g., Proviron or some kind of locally compounded cream alternative)?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by vkg1 View Post
    For some reason my doctor doesn't want to test my E2. I realize that's a problem. But I'm in a social medicine system in my country so what I think or realize doesn't really matter much. I may find a way of visiting a private doctor. But that would be tremendously expensive and difficult. I somewhat doubt E2 is the problem though, because I would not say I am having other E2 sides and my dosage is fairly low (Nebido injection once every 10 weeks).

    Is it indeed the case that Andactrim as an adjunct to TRT costs in the neighborhood of $150+ a month though? Do I really have that correct, or are people doing things in a different and more affordable way instead (e.g., Proviron or some kind of locally compounded cream alternative)?
    I don't know much about the Nebido injection but what I do know is, as exogenous test is processed in the body the levels begin to drop. That's why at minimum, TRT patients should inject once a week. Twice a week is preferred. You're probably hitting your lows fairly quickly and bottoming out. Some guys use online labs and order the female hormone panel which will give you the correct E2 test.

  4. Nebido is different from other forms of TRT. It is definitely designed for injections once every 3 months. I am doing it a little more frequently at once every 10 weeks. If you look at blood test results of men on Nebido the injection frequency they recommend is very sensible.

    It looks like Andactrim from All Saints Clinic is about $150 per month for registered users. Why would someone use Andactrim rather than Proviron at a small fraction of the cost? There must be a reason. I'm curious what it is.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by sammpedd88 View Post
    I don't know much about the Nebido injection but what I do know is, as exogenous test is processed in the body the levels begin to drop. That's why at minimum, TRT patients should inject once a week. Twice a week is preferred. You're probably hitting your lows fairly quickly and bottoming out. Some guys use online labs and order the female hormone panel which will give you the correct E2 test.
    Nebido is very different. It's undecanoate ester in caster oil, 250mg/mL x 4mL per injection. The ester, oil carrier and depot size give it about a 6 week half life. That's not a misprint. It's usually good for 10-13 weeks depending on the individual and added AI tends to extend the effective length. The US has a 3mL version that is good for 8-10 weeks.
    Lift heavy and eat lots of dead animals! Yes, that's me in my avatar.
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  6. So, I've been on 170/wk for 5 months now. Last week I went in and got a dose at 250, since I won't be in town this week. It's to get me they 2 weeks. This weekend, I wasn't as irritable or quick on the trigger. My girlfriend even noticed the difference. Depending on how this next week and a half go, I may plead my case for a large increase over my standard dose.

    Any thoughts on why the higher dose calmed me down? Isn't that the opposite of what most feel on a higher dose?

    Nothing else has changed.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by drewfuss View Post
    So, I've been on 170/wk for 5 months now. Last week I went in and got a dose at 250, since I won't be in town this week. It's to get me they 2 weeks. This weekend, I wasn't as irritable or quick on the trigger. My girlfriend even noticed the difference. Depending on how this next week and a half go, I may plead my case for a large increase over my standard dose.

    Any thoughts on why the higher dose calmed me down? Isn't that the opposite of what most feel on a higher dose?

    Nothing else has changed.
    My best explanation would be that maybe your weekly dose isn't enough and getting a larger dose put you at a level that works for you, BUT....getting a larger dose to get you through over a week is not a good protocol at all. It's very outdated. Or it could have been a placebo effect.

    Are you injecting test cyp? If so ask your Dr if you can split your weekly dose in half and inject every 3.5 days. For an example, I inject on Wednesday morning and Saturday late morning or afternoon. This will keep your test levels and E2 in check better than it would injecting weekly or every other week.

  8. My doc does the injections, so I'm not able to split the dose. They use test C. My E2 is at 30, only slightly lower than my pre-trt level. I don't take any AI, since my levels are OK on the tests.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by drewfuss View Post
    My doc does the injections, so I'm not able to split the dose. They use test C. My E2 is at 30, only slightly lower than my pre-trt level. I don't take any AI, since my levels are OK on the tests.
    Have you asked to do self injections? It is very common. I had no problem when I first started TRT with my urologist in getting him to allow me to self inject and he was an ass and used old protocols. Also with your E2, it's starting to creep up. "Ideal is 18-24" but of course some guys do ok slightly lower or slightly higher. Nothing is one size fits all in TRT. Search for an integrative medicine practice in your area. These places are better educated in TRT among other things. Don't be afraid to take your health care into your own hands and find another Dr. I turned away from a GP Dr who I was going to for 15 years and a urologist who is great in his field. Both lacked something and that was being on top of the changes dealing with TRT.

  10. I go to the Low T Center. The 2 docs there are very personable and like that I'm interacting with them and that I am researching trt, instead of just nodding my head and being a yes man. I'll ask about the self injecting. What's the worst they can say, no? If he says no, I'll search elsewhere. But wouldn't they turn me away of I'm already getting treatment? My test levels would be too high.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by drewfuss View Post
    I go to the Low T Center. The 2 docs there are very personable and like that I'm interacting with them and that I am researching trt, instead of just nodding my head and being a yes man. I'll ask about the self injecting. What's the worst they can say, no? If he says no, I'll search elsewhere. But wouldn't they turn me away of I'm already getting treatment? My test levels would be too high.
    They wouldn't turn you away as long as you tell them up front why you're leaving and what protocol you've been on. I would be shocked if a Low T center didn't allow you to self inject unless their marking money off you coming in for the injections.
  12. TRT recommendations


    They make the office visit fee from insurance and my $25 every week.

    I'm almost tempted to order T online and self inject. It's cheaper but not quite pharma grade. But I'd be able to pay for my testing with the money savings. I'll ask about the self injecting first.

  13. Sounds good man

  14. Dosage was increased to 180/wk. Next labs are on 1/12/17. Doc said we can discuss self injecting after labs come back. That's a plus in the right direction.

  15. Let us know the results of your labs when you get them done.
  16. TRT recommendations


    Definitely. Y'all have been very helpful so far. I've found lots of helpful information on this forum. Many thanks to everyone, even others threads.

  17. It's a good place for info man, but lately there have been some that are trying to push over priced supplements. Watch out for them!

  18. If I go the route of any supps, I'll be going to local places. Thanks for the heads up.



  19. Total Test 731
    Free Test 17.3
    PSA .38
    Estradiol less than 5


    Estradiol went way down, free T went down, and total T went up. This is strange to me, except fur the E2 decrease. I need to stop taking DIM. I haven't had any signs of low E, in my opinion.

    They increased my weekly shot to 190mg test cyp once per week. I ask about self injection, but they don't offer it.

  20. I'd talk to your doc about the estradiol because that is very odd to be below range and it isn't happening from the DIM. DIM only metabolizes bad estrogens, it doesn't work like an AI to prevent estrogens from building or actually lowering them. It can come across as lowering unless you test for all estrogens, but certainly would not drop you below range. It should be looked at as a "balancer" of estrogens.
  21. TRT recommendations


    Thanks Kisaj, I'll call and ask about it. Do you know of any reason it may have tanked?
  22. TRT recommendations


    SHBG almost quadrupled, from 8 to 29. Could that have caused it?

  23. Not sure, you need to run this by the doc. Definitely not coming from DIM, though.

    SHBG increasing would make sense to see the lower free test, but why did it quadruple? Also, you should get a sensitive estradiol lab as it is more accurate, but I definitely would question those results. I've been on Arimidex and Aromasin and never tested below 10-12, which was much too low and I was feeling it. If this is accurate, there is a reason and you would notice it because low e2 is almost worse feeling than high.

  24. It's been a while since my last update. I am now on 200mg/wk. I must say, I feel very good at this point. I started having knee pain, possibly from the low E2. I believe my free T is in a good spot at this dose. I'm going to ask for bloodwork this week, to see where I am. But so far, I'm feeling much better than when I was at 160mg/wk. There may still be room for improvement, but I would prefer labs to help with my next steps. I go in Thursday morning, so will update in a couple weeks if we draw labs.

  25. I've been on 200mg for 4 weeks and it's been a noticeable difference over the 190.
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