4 weeks of Clomid results

[lboston]

I was put on Clomid to help bring the boys back to life after being on TRT for 2 years. My wife and I are considering another baby (have 2 girls) and the fertility doc offered clomid or HCG mono therapy. I went with clomid due to the lower costs.

I've been on clomid once before as a standalone for TRT and it brought me to nearly 7-800ng/dl. This time, not so much luck.

After 4 weeks my total T was barely 200ng/ dl and free test was 4.8. Estradiol was 14.8.

A little bummed by the results. Was hoping for much better results...wondering if this means my boys are on a permanent vacation...

 

[kisaj]

Not necessarily as HCG and clomid work a little differently. You may want to try HCG.

 

[lboston]

Not necessarily as HCG and clomid work a little differently. You may want to try HCG.

I had assumed maybe it meant that since last time I did Clomid for a month my levels went to around 700ng/dl.

We decided to wait about 9-12 months before revisiting the idea of another baby, so for now I am back on injections. Maybe I'll go with the HCG next time around. It's just crazy because HCG was going to cost around 3-400 dollars per month and clomid is 45!

 

[The Matrix]

I had assumed maybe it meant that since last time I did Clomid for a month my levels went to around 700ng/dl.

We decided to wait about 9-12 months before revisiting the idea of another baby, so for now I am back on injections. Maybe I'll go with the HCG next time around. It's just crazy because HCG was going to cost around 3-400 dollars per month and clomid is 45!

$3-400 a month is not realistic. Compounding pharmacy around $ 60-100 per bottle which can last up 2 months.
How much clomid where you one? Too much clomid can down regulate LH receptors and back fire.
Are you addressing other issues to help support back filling other factors which effect hormone synthesis. How can you make something from nothing? It is biochemical impossible.

 

[chedapalooza]

Subbed for more info probably facing my second restart with clomid soon. First one lasted 1.5 years before a slow and steady decline has begun. I was up around 1100 for about a year. Now I'm sitting down in the 4-500 range and the difference is profound. I'm 26. No PH or gear use

 

[lboston]

$3-400 a month is not realistic. Compounding pharmacy around $ 60-100 per bottle which can last up 2 months. How much clomid where you one? Too much clomid can down regulate LH receptors and back fire. Are you addressing other issues to help support back filling other factors which effect hormone synthesis. How can you make something from nothing? It is biochemical impossible.

Do you have any recs for compounding pharmacies to look in to? I'd gladly explore other options. The pharmacy I was referred to by the doc was Freedom Pharmacy.

I was taking 25mg Clomid ED- that's the same dose I was on before when I had levels over 700ng/dl.

 

[j2048b]

Can u try hmg? Its usually used for male fertility,

Im not sure why people cant stay on trt while trying to conceive?

I never came off, i simply added clomid to my trt regimen which included:

Test 100 mlg every monday
Hcg 250 iu, 2 times per week

Added:
Clomid 50 mlg per day,

My child is now 1.5 yrs old....

What i did realize is that when the wife took clomid we had boys when i took clomid we had a girl.... Not sure if that matters?

Ive been told that using hcg along w clomid helps and for me it did...

 

[lboston]

Can u try hmg? Its usually used for male fertility, Im not sure why people cant stay on trt while trying to conceive? I never came off, i simply added clomid to my trt regimen which included: Test 100 mlg every monday Hcg 250 iu, 2 times per week Added: Clomid 50 mlg per day, My child is now 1.5 yrs old.... What i did realize is that when the wife took clomid we had boys when i took clomid we had a girl.... Not sure if that matters? Ive been told that using hcg along w clomid helps and for me it did...

Don't know much about hmg, but I'll check it out.

Did you doctor prescribe the HCG and clomid, or did you add that on your own?

I've also heard of other guys taking Clomid and swearing that they always had girls...

 

[The Matrix]

There is a compounding pharmacy who we deal with for ivs who is very accommodating. PM for details..

 

[j2048b]

Don't know much about hmg, but I'll check it out.

Did you doctor prescribe the HCG and clomid, or did you add that on your own?

I've also heard of other guys taking Clomid and swearing that they always had girls...

I sourced my own.....

 

[chedapalooza]

Got blood drawn today. Doc will do clomid+adex if levels come back low probably under 400 will be his cutoff. Last check in sept was 548

 

[DR.D]

It takes time. After 2 years of chronic suppression, it may take 6-9months before a SERM even works. hCG might restore volume a bit (or maybe not at this point), but it'll be counter productive in the long-run. hCG is best in the early phases, not this late. I'd just chill for awhile, then try it after a few more months. Your body keeps score, and the older you get the less you can force the issue. It once took me about 13 months to come back, nothing worked in the meantime, just had to wait.

 

[chedapalooza]

Thoughts oh shbg? I'm not happy with total test but my lowest was 240... So LH and FSH are pleasing along with the estradiol as I am typically in the 40s

 

[DR.D]

The SHBG will probably drop when your estrogen drops. If your estro is typically high, SHBG will likely remain high too without an AI. Looks like the pituitary is still responsive, just waiting for the testicles to catch up. Numbers are pretty alright actually.

Looks like you have a cat though, or some allergy maybe.

 

[j2048b]

View attachment 115465

Thoughts oh shbg? I'm not happy with total test but my lowest was 240... So LH and FSH are pleasing along with the estradiol as I am typically in the 40s

perhaps nettle root? ive heard it helps lower shbg? can anyone confirm? if anything, its cheap and might be worth it to at least try it out? ive never used it but have been told it helps lower shbg...

 

[DR.D]

Yes, it could help for sure, but I'd try to get the E levels down first.

 

[j2048b]

Yes, it could help for sure, but I'd try to get the E levels down first.

e is only at 34, hell i know plenty of people who function better when their e is at 40 and sometimes 50, rather than below 25....

understandably, IT WOULD BE BETTER TO LOWER E NOW AS WHEN THE SHBG RELEASES AND LOWERS U MAY HAVE AN INCREASE IN E AND IT WOULD THUS BE HARDER TO CONTROL, CORRECT?

dang keyboard with the caps sorry!!

 

[chedapalooza]

The SHBG will probably drop when your estrogen drops. If your estro is typically high, SHBG will likely remain high too without an AI. Looks like the pituitary is still responsive, just waiting for the testicles to catch up. Numbers are pretty alright actually. Looks like you have a cat though, or some allergy maybe.

Wow really?! We just got a dog about two weeks before the blood draw... I FELT allergy symptoms but they seem to have gone Away...... I'd never been allergic to dogs in the past tho. What values tipped u off??

 

[chedapalooza]

I just began using inhibit E... I'll try to get retested at the end of the run.... Not sure how frequently I can get draws

 

[kisaj]

Looks like you have a cat though, or some allergy maybe.

That is freaking awesome. hahah

 

[DR.D]

Right. It's probably counterproductive to lower SHBG if E2 is still high, then you just have more active estrogen without enough androgen to properly compensate. That means a more undesirable endocrine profile, and likely compounded suppression too. However, if 40 is naturally where you like to be anyway, then for sure work with your body's chemistry because at 34 you still have some wiggle room. The issue is, even in the low 30's that isn't doing you any favors right now in the recovery department, know what I mean? The real way to lower SHBG is to just raise androgen production but since that's coming back slowly right now, lowering E to maybe half what it currently is could help facilitate test production and bring out the finer benefits of nettle too.

That's what I would do. Have you discussed these results with your doc or endo yet? If the Clomid is gonna help, I'd think it already would have. Too long and metabolites can start building up that don't help with sex drive and start to stress the liver too.

 

[chedapalooza]

Right. It's probably counterproductive to lower SHBG if E2 is still high, then you just have more active estrogen without enough androgen to properly compensate. That means a more undesirable endocrine profile, and likely compounded suppression too. However, if 40 is naturally where you like to be anyway, then for sure work with your body's chemistry because at 34 you still have some wiggle room. The issue is, even in the low 30's that isn't doing you any favors right now in the recovery department, know what I mean? The real way to lower SHBG is to just raise androgen production but since that's coming back slowly right now, lowering E to maybe half what it currently is could help facilitate test production and bring out the finer benefits of nettle too. That's what I would do. Have you discussed these results with your doc or endo yet? If the Clomid is gonna help, I'd think it already would have. Too long and metabolites can start building up that don't help with sex drive and start to stress the liver too.

Yea doc said he likes where things are and wants to just leave it alone and with time hopefully the test numbers will increase... I've been hovering in the 500s for about a year now, so idk. Could be way worse!

 

[DR.D]

Wow really?! We just got a dog about two weeks before the blood draw... I FELT allergy symptoms but they seem to have gone Away...... I'd never been allergic to dogs in the past tho. What values tipped u off??

I'm a mind reader! no, j/k

Yeah, the elevated Eosinophils usually indicate a recent parasite challenge, T gondii from a cat for example, or something like that. If it's an inside dog you can even pick up little skin infections from them (like Tinea, ringworm) but not as bad as cats. The immune system usually overcomes them without help, no big deal.

But the Basophils are raised too, so makes me think maybe just an allergen since neither one of the values are all that high. The whole blood differential looks good, but those two values should general be zero or pretty close to it unless there's been a recent pathogenic challenge. At least in my experience.

About all you can do is just keep the dog clean and dewormed on a regular schedule, or keep it outside.

 

[chedapalooza]

I'm a mind reader! no, j/k Yeah, the elevated Eosinophils usually indicate a recent parasite challenge, T gondii from a cat for example, or something like that. If it's an inside dog you can even pick up little skin infections from them (like Tinea, ringworm) but not as bad as cats. The immune system usually overcomes them without help, no big deal. But the Basophils are raised too, so makes me think maybe just an allergen since neither one of the values are all that high. The whole blood differential looks good, but those two values should general be zero or pretty close to it unless there's been a recent pathogenic challenge. At least in my experience. About all you can do is just keep the dog clean and dewormed on a regular schedule, or keep it outside.

interesting stuff man. I guess something to keep an eye on.... Thank you

 

[DR.D]

Yea doc said he likes where things are and wants to just leave it alone and with time hopefully the test numbers will increase... I've been hovering in the 500s for about a year now, so idk. Could be way worse!

Yeah, I know it sux but I think he's prolly right. Might take a few more months, then you can try again ya know. But 500s ain't bad man, still high enough to handle basic manly stuff no problem. I've been shutdown for long periods of time before, once I thought the boys where never gonna come home. Then one day out of nowhere, over a year later and I'd already given up, boo-ya just like that! They bounce back eventually.

 

[chedapalooza]

Yeah, I know it sux but I think he's prolly right. Might take a few more months, then you can try again ya know. But 500s ain't bad man, still high enough to handle basic manly stuff no problem. I've been shutdown for long periods of time before, once I thought the boys where never gonna come home. Then one day out of nowhere, over a year later and I'd already given up, boo-ya just like that! They bounce back eventually.

lol yup my buddy was shut down then a year later ended up having a kid after years of HEAVY steroid use. I am mainly concerned with levels for aesthetic purposes and ease of losing bf and adding muscle... Energy and mood are no complaints. Could be better... But no sense in pushing it.. I am only 26 tho so it's not ideal!

 

[DR.D]

Oh yeah man, if you're only 26 I'm betting you'll bounce back fine. That really long shutdown I told you about, was in my teens! I was 700 before that, then crashed hard, then by my early 20's I was testing consistently at 800-850. So don't worry too much. It isn't till about 28-30'ish that you really have to start playing by the rules, that's when the body starts to become notably less forgiving of mistakes.

 

[The Matrix]

Your adrenals are tanked. Its obvious right in your blood work. You are trying to push a car down a hill and pop the clutch to get it moving. The only problem is you have not looked at the engine to make sure it keeps going. People are going to be going round and round until they address the root issues. Y'all chasing symptoms

 

[Thunder13]

Matrix..how can you determine his adrenals are tanked from his bloodwork? which tests/lab values reveal this? Mine is similar to his ..

 

[chedapalooza]

Matrix..how can you determine his adrenals are tanked from his bloodwork? which tests/lab values reveal this? Mine is similar to his ..

well my TSH is low. So I would think that... It's always in that range. I am a chronic heavy stim user for the last 9-10 years... Be it EC or stacking two thermos etc.

If I stopped stims would my test rise?

Would my TSH rise?

Obviously Id withdrawal ...hard... But if there's possibility of gaining total test back then I would give it a shot

 

[The Matrix]

When dealing with increase excitation for a while your dopamine receptors will down regulate almost to the point of being none responsive to stimulants. By reestablishing the D1-D5 pathways and receptors one can reboot the dopamine sensitivity. Excessive stimulating the adrenal for a long time you mask fact of weakens them
When you come off the stimulants you see just how much damage was done. This is why there is withdrawl. Just likr all the other scenarios here you need to identify and backfill as well as clear several enzymatic pathways before pulling the rug from out of under you. Its not very complex at all. Just takes a common logic and doing close to 1000 cases over the years

 

[chedapalooza]

When dealing with increase excitation for a while your dopamine receptors will down regulate almost to the point of being none responsive to stimulants. By reestablishing the D1-D5 pathways and receptors one can reboot the dopamine sensitivity. Excessive stimulating the adrenal for a long time you mask fact of weakens them When you come off the stimulants you see just how much damage was done. This is why there is withdrawl. Not a very complex at all. Just takes a common logic and doing close to 1000 cases over the years

I take 1000mg tyrosine daily , if that has any effect and usually 12 weeks of l dopa followed by 4 off

 

[The Matrix]

You be increasing dopamine but will not do dick when there is receptor down regulation. I have clients jack up on all narcotic and psychs meds. Their doctors are jacking up the drugs. By addressing receptors they start to OD on them. The doctors are blaming it on the suggestions. No sherlock, they are over dosing on the drugs because its actually working due to receptors sites are resensitize. Again giving tyrosine may be.making situation worse because you need to work on the inhibitorory first. I do 20 cases of these a week its all second nature and all new to you guys I understand. Unless you know what you are doing with neuros I would not suggested as it can be very dangerous. I see this alot and do not want people to get hurt..

 

[LMuscle]

You be increasing dopamine but will not do dick when there is receptor down regulation. I have clients jack up on all narcotic and psychs meds. Their doctors are jacking up the drugs. By addressing receptors they start to OD on them. The doctors are blaming it on the suggestions. No sherlock, they are over dosing on the drugs because its actually working due to receptors sites are resensitize. Again giving tyrosine may be.making situation worse because you need to work on the inhibitorory first. I do 20 cases of these a week its all second nature and all new to you guys I understand. Unless you know what you are doing with neuros I would not suggested as it can be very dangerous. I see this alot and do not want people to get hurt..

what's the best way to address these receptors? I too have tried the l tyrosine/p5p/vit-c combo approach to increase dopamine, hasn't done jack for me. Testosterone levels and e2 levels are perfect, but my sex drive is non-existent 90% of the time. No libido.. All I want is my libido back, been chasing this for 3+ years now. Still on test cyp injections 50mg/twice per week. I've tried lowering dose, raising dose, Androgel, dht gel, Dermacrine, nothing has worked. I've been horny a few times, but it's rare now. I pop cialis and fake a sex drive most of the time so I don't lose my edge with the ladies, f-ckin sad

 

[chedapalooza]

what's the best way to address these receptors? I too have tried the l tyrosine/p5p/vit-c combo approach to increase dopamine, hasn't done jack for me. Testosterone levels and e2 levels are perfect, but my sex drive is non-existent 90% of the time. No libido.. All I want is my libido back, been chasing this for 3+ years now. Still on test cyp injections 50mg/twice per week. I've tried lowering dose, raising dose, Androgel, dht gel, Dermacrine, nothing has worked. I've been horny a few times, but it's rare now. I pop cialis and fake a sex drive most of the time so I don't lose my edge with the ladies, f-ckin sad

heard that.....

Not sure what a sex drive actually feels like tbh

 

[The Matrix]

There are multiple mechanism between the neuroendocrine system just have to find what is the missing key. With out detailed history, symptoms and other information it would be impossible to know where to start. Just like everyone else people are throwing darts against the board and seeing where it lands each time. Had a older female in late 50's barely having sex with her husband for several years. Now they are doing it twice a week. Amazing when you combine a little science with logic.