Andractim

[LMuscle]

Just received Andractim, any suggestions on use? It's all in various languages haha I read on a website to apply a 2" line of gel to thorax

 

[LMuscle]

Just applied some to my forearms, I'll keep you guys posted on the effects

 

[damage007]

Just applied some to my forearms, I'll keep you guys posted on the effects

Good to hear , there are some acute mental effects as well in regards to motivation and positive aggression - be careful not to drink too many PWOs with it.
I also recommend stacking it with a SERM to reduce/minimize suppression...

 

[LMuscle]

Good to hear , there are some acute mental effects as well in regards to motivation and positive aggression - be careful not to drink too many PWOs with it. I also recommend stacking it with a SERM to reduce/minimize suppression...

Right on I'll keep that in mind, haven't had a PWO in probably 6 months. I'm on TRT, so no worries about suppression. Only side effect so far is ringing in my ears, and I thought I started to feel a little more aggressive, but I think it was in my head lol. I'll continue the 5mg per day for a couple week.

 

[LMuscle]

I wonder how long it'll take to notice any effects?

 

[damage007]

I wonder how long it'll take to notice any effects?

What are you looking to gain...if you want masteron like effects ; like direct equivalent..you're gonna have to use four fingers full per day....although, since you are on TRT, you might be able to get away with two an d a half....
I took me about 2 weeks, strength was way up,., i felt the mental effects mostly on the 3rd day...but keep in mind, I was using profuse amounts of it....for the first week, then tapered down to a normal amount thereafter...on the third week I added in both winstrol and masteron.....that's where the euphoria was roughly 5x the first week ( sensibly ) - though andractim itself had some effects , to be sure!

 

[LMuscle]

What are you looking to gain...if you want masteron like effects ; like direct equivalent..you're gonna have to use four fingers full per day....although, since you are on TRT, you might be able to get away with two an d a half.... I took me about 2 weeks, strength was way up,., i felt the mental effects mostly on the 3rd day...but keep in mind, I was using profuse amounts of it....for the first week, then tapered down to a normal amount thereafter...on the third week I added in both winstrol and masteron.....that's where the euphoria was roughly 5x the first week ( sensibly ) - though andractim itself had some effects , to be sure!

The number one thing I'm looking for is increased sex drive. I want an extreme, animalistic sex drive. I'll try 20mg per day and see how that works. Is there anything in particular I should be aware of or be cautious of besides possible high PSA or hair loss? Thanks for your help

 

[damage007]

The number one thing I'm looking for is increased sex drive. I want an extreme, animalistic sex drive. I'll try 20mg per day and see how that works. Is there anything in particular I should be aware of or be cautious of besides possible high PSA or hair loss? Thanks for your help

Definitely you'll get some increased aggression - and if your serotonin levels are low..then this will be four-fold..so it's just about channeling it properly.
I didn't notice any real sides, although, as I said - with too many stims you'll be panicky and aggressive.......overreacting would be an understatement..if used with clen I would be very careful as it tends to amplify the CNS effects....other than that, not many side-effects....

 

[damage007]

You can probably use zinc and resveratrol to help avert hair loss....if you drop E2 too low - then obviously there will be even more adrenergic issues...and dopamine will go down....

 

[LMuscle]

Something else I've noticed, I normally stay comfortably warm in cold environments. I'm freezing my ass off today haha

 

[LMuscle]

I've also noticed my sex drive is a lot lower now. Maybe it's crashing my e2 levels? I'll keep the dose steady for another week and see if things level out.

 

[damage007]

Something else I've noticed, I normally stay comfortably warm in cold environments. I'm freezing my ass off today haha

DHT does inhibit thyroid hormone...which makes that one of the mechanisms it creates facial hair/body hair growth....hypermetabolism/hyperthyroid would inhibit follicle proliferation as the body would have no need to produce extra hair when heat is already so thermal that extra hair would only overheat the body....thus DHT can certainly be a modulator of overall metabolism.

 

[LMuscle]

DHT does inhibit thyroid hormone...which makes that one of the mechanisms it creates facial hair/body hair growth....hypermetabolism/hyperthyroid would inhibit follicle proliferation as the body would have no need to produce extra hair when heat is already so thermal that extra hair would only overheat the body....thus DHT can certainly be a modulator of overall metabolism.

Wow that freaks me out a little, I noticed my voice feels kinda scratchy/hoarse today as the day progresses. Still cold as f---, I'm gonna lay off the Andractim for a while until I figure things out a little better. How long should it take for my thyroid hormone to go back to normal if the higher DHT was causing it to go low?

 

[damage007]

Wow that freaks me out a little, I noticed my voice feels kinda scratchy/hoarse today as the day progresses. Still cold as f---, I'm gonna lay off the Andractim for a while until I figure things out a little better. How long should it take for my thyroid hormone to go back to normal if the higher DHT was causing it to go low?

You may have also pushed E2 too low, are you prone to that?
Are you taking an AI, of any sort?
DHT only mildly inhibits thyroid hormone, but this is more of an issue if you are already prone to hypothyroidism...
If you have a good lean mass/body fat ratio - I would think it wouldn't mean much...unless of course you are taking adex/letro as well.

With that being said, low E2 does create temperament changes and specifically, would cause you to be more sensitive to the cold...at least partly due to a minor or moderate drop in nitric oxide - which helps keep your periphery warm!

BUT,, that would ONLY happen if.

1.) You are already prone to hypothyroidism, or have a past and confirmed diagnosis of such..or extensive genetic history.
2.) You crashed your E2 levels or your N.O levels in general need to come up.

It might benefit you to take folic acid and pomegranate while you are on andractim...as these both improve Nitric oxide which is essential for circulation and body heat, as you know.

 

[LMuscle]

You may have also pushed E2 too low, are you prone to that? Are you taking an AI, of any sort? DHT only mildly inhibits thyroid hormone, but this is more of an issue if you are already prone to hypothyroidism... If you have a good lean mass/body fat ratio - I would think it wouldn't mean much...unless of course you are taking adex/letro as well. With that being said, low E2 does create temperament changes and specifically, would cause you to be more sensitive to the cold...at least partly due to a minor or moderate drop in nitric oxide - which helps keep your periphery warm! BUT,, that would ONLY happen if. 1.) You are already prone to hypothyroidism, or have a past and confirmed diagnosis of such..or extensive genetic history. 2.) You crashed your E2 levels or your N.O levels in general need to come up. It might benefit you to take folic acid and pomegranate while you are on andractim...as these both improve Nitric oxide which is essential for circulation and body heat, as you know.

Oh ok must be low e2 then, I'm about 8% bodyfat all year round, and my last blood panel showed properly functioning thyroid. I'm not on any AI's, but this definitely feels like e2 has become low. Not crashed type low, but low enough for sides to show up. I'll try some folic acid and pomegranate.

 

[Zer22]

You can probably use zinc and resveratrol to help avert hair loss....if you drop E2 too low - then obviously there will be even more adrenergic issues...and dopamine will go down....

don't mean to derail the thread but can you explain why dropping e2 too low will cause adrenergic issues and why dopamine will go down? I ask because I've noticed adderall is not nearly as effective while using an AI.

 

[damage007]

don't mean to derail the thread but can you explain why dropping e2 too low will cause adrenergic issues and why dopamine will go down? I ask because I've noticed adderall is not nearly as effective while using an AI.

When testosterone aromatizes into estradiol/estrogen ; it does a couple of things in regards to dopamine.
1.) Increases tyrosine hydroxylase; which is the enzyme by which your brain transforms L-tyrosine into L-Dopa; then to create dopamine....
2.) Increases dopamine receptor expression....generally D(2)

BUT...you only need a tiny* bit of E2 to do this, in the normal range, though.....not deficient obviously.....estrogen is basically like a super potent form of Vitamin D in it's neural mechanism of action....

As I said, it's theoretically possible to treat low E2's sexual side-effects with a combination platter of chems that are hard to get, but it's usually much easier to just lower your dose of anti-estrogen and / or augment testosterone therapy.

As far as adrenaline.....

When estrogen crashes into the undetectable range....and DHT rises sky high...

1.) Adrenaline goes up.
2.)Alpha-1-receptors increase.

The reason is because nitric oxide modulates adrenaline from a central and vascular level, including the effect on red blood cells and platelets.
With less nitric oxide; it can be said that adrenaline would be more "disinhibited"..

This is the reason when your estro goes REALLY low - you get less benefit from stimulants; because normally nitric oxide determines the EFFICACY and FUNCTIONALITY of stimulants and prevents high blood pressure from them.

If you're not gonna stop crashing your E2 ...then you should at least plan to take an alpha-1-blocker and extra Vitamin D as well as a dopaminergic to compensate....a whole lotta changes occur with low E2....

Everything becomes more complicated..but why waste your money on other sups when you can just lower the dose of an AI or w/e is crashing the levels?
You'd end up spending at least 60 bucks on a pharmaceutical alpha 1 blocker...another 70-90 bucks on a dopaminergic, or maybe 40-50 if you do research chem and they are reliable....and that doesn't even take care of the 5-HT1A serotonin receptor upregulation that occurs with low estrogen....and there are no compounds released, yet, to target that pathway.

 

[Zer22]

When testosterone aromatizes into estradiol/estrogen ; it does a couple of things in regards to dopamine. 1.) Increases tyrosine hydroxylase; which is the enzyme by which your brain transforms L-tyrosine into L-Dopa; then to create dopamine.... 2.) Increases dopamine receptor expression....generally D(2) BUT...you only need a tiny* bit of E2 to do this, in the normal range, though.....not deficient obviously.....estrogen is basically like a super potent form of Vitamin D in it's neural mechanism of action.... As I said, it's theoretically possible to treat low E2's sexual side-effects with a combination platter of chems that are hard to get, but it's usually much easier to just lower your dose of anti-estrogen and / or augment testosterone therapy. As far as adrenaline..... When estrogen crashes into the undetectable range....and DHT rises sky high... 1.) Adrenaline goes up. 2.)Alpha-1-receptors increase. The reason is because nitric oxide modulates adrenaline from a central and vascular level, including the effect on red blood cells and platelets. With less nitric oxide; it can be said that adrenaline would be more "disinhibited".. This is the reason when your estro goes REALLY low - you get less benefit from stimulants; because normally nitric oxide determines the EFFICACY and FUNCTIONALITY of stimulants and prevents high blood pressure from them. If you're not gonna stop crashing your E2 ...then you should at least plan to take an alpha-1-blocker and extra Vitamin D as well as a dopaminergic to compensate....a whole lotta changes occur with low E2.... Everything becomes more complicated..but why waste your money on other sups when you can just lower the dose of an AI or w/e is crashing the levels? You'd end up spending at least 60 bucks on a pharmaceutical alpha 1 blocker...another 70-90 bucks on a dopaminergic, or maybe 40-50 if you do research chem and they are reliable....and that doesn't even take care of the 5-HT1A serotonin receptor upregulation that occurs with low estrogen....and there are no compounds released, yet, to target that pathway.

Wow, thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed reply, I really appreciate it. I will have to copy this and save it for later. Ya i noticed when I had stopped dosing my AI, my adderall worked so much better. Then I just happened to be reading through this thread and saw you mention the adrenergic and dopamine issues with crashing your E2 and figured that had to be the reason I just didn't know why. I guess I will lower the AI dose in the future and save myself the expense of having to use an array of sups to combat the issues you explained. Again I appreciate you taking the time to give such a detailed explanation.