test cream?

[throneof]

Had a meeting with an anti aging group and they were really pushing for me to use a cream testosterone. I asked if it was androgel and he laughed and said androgel is 1% and that the cream they carried was 20%. Anyways, is this stuff any good? I know most guys prefer injectables. I just want to get up to 1200 TT. Had bloods drawn today as well, so will know by Friday what's up with that. Should I go with the cream? Doc Told me I would need arimidex with it, so it must be potent to warrant an AI

 

[kisaj]

Why do you want to get to 1200TT? First off, that may not be ideal for you and you really want to be more concerned with keeping all your numbers in balance, mainly looking at free test.

Are you looking to go on TRT? If so, there are no doctors that will support someone being on the fringe of going outside the high physiological range. No good doctors at least.

 

[throneof]

Why do you want to get to 1200TT? First off, that may not be ideal for you and you really want to be more concerned with keeping all your numbers in balance, mainly looking at free test. Are you looking to go on TRT? If so, there are no doctors that will support someone being on the fringe of going outside the high physiological range. No good doctors at least.

I want 1200 TT because it's the max high end of normal. I had TT and FT checked back in September and they came back 498 (300-1200) and 7 (12-40). This blood panel I had done today is far more comprehensive and will check everything, so I'm looking forward to getting the results back. But you're saying higher TT is not necessarily better? He also said the cream will not cause shutdown

 

[kisaj]

First off, any exogenous test is going to cause shutdown. Second, your goal is to take test levels to the level to address symptoms. Staying in the physiological range brings only minor improvement in any physical changes and relies on your diet, rest, and workouts just as though you were natural. In order to see large mass or strength gains, you need to push outside of the range. Don't get me wrong, you will definitely see improvements in body comp and fat reduction, but there will be minor difference from mid normal to high normal. However, you are inviting more sides as you push the number higher including e2 issues, hematocrit, RBC count, and elevated blood pressure. The pros do not outweigh the cons.

BTW- your TT is fine and if you tested again could be even higher. Your free test needs addressed and they should have also checked e2, SHBG, thyroid, LH, FSH, cortisol, and CBC.

 

[throneof]

First off, any exogenous test is going to cause shutdown. Second, your goal is to take test levels to the level to address symptoms. Staying in the physiological range brings only minor improvement in any physical changes and relies on your diet, rest, and workouts just as though you were natural. In order to see large mass or strength gains, you need to push outside of the range. Don't get me wrong, you will definitely see improvements in body comp and fat reduction, but there will be minor difference from mid normal to high normal. However, you are inviting more sides as you push the number higher including e2 issues, hematocrit, RBC count, and elevated blood pressure. The pros do not outweigh the cons. BTW- your TT is fine and if you tested again could be even higher. Your free test needs addressed and they should have also checked e2, SHBG, thyroid, LH, FSH, cortisol, and CBC.

This blood work is checking for everything you mentioned. When I get the results back I will post here.

 

[B5150]

However, you are inviting more sides as you push the number higher including e2 issues, hematocrit, RBC count, and elevated blood pressure. The pros do not outweigh the cons.

I concur with this statement. They go hand in hand from my experience and the negatives do manifest themselves in quite the unwell feeling.

 

[throneof]

I concur with this statement. They go hand in hand from my experience and the negatives do manifest themselves in quite the unwell feeling.

I remember doing DAA/arimistane a couple years back and getting great physiological results, but had the most bizarre sides: moodiness, dropped libido, worry, stressing over the dumbest stuff. That being said, I'm sure you're right about that unwell feeling. How do people get away with doing the standard 500 mg gym dose without the unwell feeling? I know AI's play a huge role

 

[kisaj]

DAA/arimistane did not increase your levels to anything that high in the range, so it was likely due to increased estrogen that DAA is well known to cause. I won't comment on arimistane because every time I do it ruffles someone's feathers. Short term cycle length runs of high test generally will make you feel very good, but that doesn't last. Even on that short term cycle, I know many people that suffer from the tiredness, anger, and anxiety.

 

[B5150]

I remember doing DAA/arimistane a couple years back and getting great physiological results, but had the most bizarre sides: moodiness, dropped libido, worry, stressing over the dumbest stuff. That being said, I'm sure you're right about that unwell feeling. How do people get away with doing the standard 500 mg gym dose without the unwell feeling? I know AI's play a huge role

I was referring to the elevated hematocrit, hemoglobin, RBC. They thicken blood. These cause serious health issues when left unchecked and/or unresolved.

 

[Yolked]

I concur with this statement. They go hand in hand from my experience and the negatives do manifest themselves in quite the unwell feeling.

Yup.

 

[throneof]

I was referring to the elevated hematocrit, hemoglobin, RBC. They thicken blood. These cause serious health issues when left unchecked and/or unresolved.

Is there a universal way to ensure these don't get out of control? Giving blood? Natural blood thinner like a full spectrum vitamin e? Or is it all just a game of Russian roulette?

 

[kisaj]

Giving blood is the best answer. Keeping test levels where they need to be to address symptoms and no higher is another. My endo likes me to take naringin and natto, which helps clotting and has lowered my hematocrit by 1.5pts on average. I run higher naturally being in high altitude.

 

[sammpedd88]

Giving blood is the best answer. Keeping test levels where they need to be to address symptoms and no higher is another. My endo likes me to take naringin and natto, which helps clotting and has lowered my hematocrit by 1.5pts on average. I run higher naturally being in high altitude.

Higher than average? Is that part of natural selection??. On a serious note....giving blood has kept my levels within the normal range. I also recommend not giving "doubles" because I had to wait too long to give again and my levels started nearing the high end of the range. Just give every 8 weeks or so and you will be fine.

 

[B5150]

Higher than average? Is that part of natural selection??. On a serious note....giving blood has kept my levels within the normal range.

Yup!

Dear Brian,

Thank you for giving blood with the American Red Cross on on 12/15/2014.
After first ensuring local needs were met, your double red cell donation was sent to Downey Regional Medical Center in Downey, CA to help a patient in need.
Your donation is on its way to change lives!

Every day, patients receive blood for a variety of conditions including life-threatening illnesses, blood disorders and traumas. Your blood donations are critical to helping save patients' lives.

On behalf of the hospitals and patients we serve, thank you for being a Red Cross blood donor.

Sincerely,


Richard Benjamin, M.D., Ph.D.
Chief Medical Officer
American Red Cross

I also recommend not giving "doubles" because I had to wait too long to give again and my levels started nearing the high end of the range. Just give every 8 weeks or so and you will be fine.

There are ways around that. Just sayin'

 

[keithgeiling]

Just chiming in to say Kisaj knows his sh)t. If I ever think about trt or something in the realm, he will be getting pm's from me?

 

[sammpedd88]

Yup! There are ways around that. Just sayin'

Get around doubles?

 

[kisaj]

Haha, thanks man. I'm just lucky to have a lot of resources and personal experience so I pass it along so others can hopefully save some time and frustration.

 

[sammpedd88]

Yup! There are ways around that. Just sayin'

Ways around doubles? Can I PM?

 

[throneof]

Haha, thanks man. I'm just lucky to have a lot of resources and personal experience so I pass it along so others can hopefully save some time and frustration.

results are back, guys

RBC: 5.72 (4.14-5.80)
Hemoglobin: 17.0 (12.6-17.7)
Hematocrit: 49.0 (37.5-51.0)
Glucose: 74 (65-99)
Total cholesterol: 150 (100-199)
Triglycerides: 73 (0-149)
HDL: 46 (>39)
LDL: 89 (0-99)
Total testosterone: 291 (348-1197)
LH: 1.8 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 7.8 (1.5-12.4)
DHEA: 227.9 (138.5-475.2)
IGF 1: 141 (88-246)
Total estrogens: 71 (40-115)
SHBG: 28.9 (16.5-55.9)

 

[sammpedd88]

results are back, guys RBC: 5.72 (4.14-5.80) Hemoglobin: 17.0 (12.6-17.7) Hematocrit: 49.0 (37.5-51.0) Glucose: 74 (65-99) Total cholesterol: 150 (100-199) Triglycerides: 73 (0-149) HDL: 46 (>39) LDL: 89 (0-99) Total testosterone: 291 (348-1197) LH: 1.8 (1.7-8.6) FSH: 7.8 (1.5-12.4) DHEA: 227.9 (138.5-475.2) IGF 1: 141 (88-246) Total estrogens: 71 (40-115) SHBG: 28.9 (16.5-55.9)

Here's my .02 and sure kisaj will give his input soon....give some blood. Your hematocrit, RBC and hemoglobin is elevated. Next time you go to the Dr for blood work, request a free T test, pregnenolone and an estradiol test for men. It the one where the levels max at 41. I can't remember the specific name of it. Your LH is in the low range and so is your DHEA. You also need your thyroid tested as well. That can give you some direction as far as taking something to stimulate your thyroid versus going on TRT.

 

[throneof]

Will discuss a prescribed protocol with them tomorrow via phone

But any thoughts on these numbers? I'm surprised at my TT. Back in sept it came back at 498. The last 2 weeks prior to this test though was rather stressful for me, and I'm sure that took a hit on my TT.

 

[kenpoengineer]

I scanned through your post history a bit. Are you sure you are not shut down from any of the supplements you mentioned you are taking?

 

[kisaj]

You blood work looks like you are living in a higher altitude except that I would expect your hematocrit to be higher. RBC are naturally on the high side in elevation. No big deal, you are in range. The only glaring thing is the test. It does look like you ran something and never came back from it.

 

[throneof]

I've never taken any AAS. I've considered it numerous times in the past, but never could pull the trigger. I'm not a big supp guy either. I've used arimistane before, as well as forskolin. As I said, my stress was bad 2 weeks prior to test every single day. But before that stressful period I felt fine and libido was through the roof. Refractory period was also quick ~ 20 minutes. I also had morning wood every day

 

[throneof]

I scanned through your post history a bit. Are you sure you are not shut down from any of the supplements you mentioned you are taking?

I'm not sure what sups I could have taken that could cause shutdown. Certainly not forskolin or arimistane. But that's about as potent as it got. What were you thinking?

 

[kenpoengineer]

I'm not sure what sups I could have taken that could cause shutdown. Certainly not forskolin or arimistane. But that's about as potent as it got. What were you thinking?

You mentioned taking benzodiazepine to sleep ( as an example). If you google that plus low testosterone there are quite a lot of evidence that it lowers testosterone. I'd google everything you are taking and see if there is a correlation.

 

[kisaj]

Benzos are notorious for killing testing levels.

 

[throneof]

Wow... Did not know that. But yes, I did take benzos 8 out of 13 days leading up to the test. I had a death in the family, so the benzos combined with the sheer sadness and stress I was going through probably tanked my test. I haven't taken a benzo in 9 days now. I've been taking Abyss, an extra gram of GABA, 1 mg melatonin, and ZMA all about 30 min prebed.