Another guy looking for help

Blue30

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Hi guys,

I'm looking for assistance getting to the root of my low t problems. I've been chasing a solution for several years, and I haven't had much luck. Usually my labs are in the 330-350 range, but fluctuate (well, once) as high as 580. I can't seem to determine what causes this fluctuation. I'm running out of tests/ideas, and I'm hoping y'all could give me some new ideas or point me in the right direction. I've tested CBC, liver enzymes, cortisol, leptin, thyroid, vitamin D, heavy metal, gut/food allergy, hair mineral analysis, etc. I've done the clomid challenge (resulted in levels of about 1100). I'd be more than happy to post any and all labs if you guys would let me know what would be helpful.

Thanks for any assistance you guys can give.

Also, is Matrix still a member? Does he still do consults? I tried to PM him, but as a new member, I believe I'm ineligible until I've completed enough posts.

Thanks again.
 
damage007

damage007

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Estrogen and prolactin tests would be helpful.
  • What's your Free T normally like?
  • How old are you?
  • What's your body fat percentage?
  • Are you a post-fina user?
  • Do you eat soy, take fenugreek or other phyto-estrogenic herbs normally thought to be beneficial?
  • What does your diet look like?
  • Do you take any medications? Anti-depressant use, past or present?
  • Amphetamine use in the past?
  • What is your hair copper level, do you take zinc and / or magnesium?
  • Do you have a history of allergies, and what is your pain tolerance like?
  • Have you ever taken D-ASPARTIC ACID, or other NMDA agonists (products like TestForce II), if so, how did you respond to them? Effects on cognition, libido and mental capacity are notable.
  • These are all questions someone with low testosterone and / or dopamine should be asked first and foremost.
PM ME if you want personal advice/coaching, But ANSWER all above questions first, either here or in PM.

~JAY~ (AREA-1255) Author of "DHT and the Brain".
 

Blue30

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Jay, thanks for the quick response. I'll try to answer the questions as best as I can. Please let me know if I miss anything.

Prolactin: 5.4 ng/mL (ref 2.0-18.0)

E2: 16.2 pg/mL (corresponding to TT of 364 ng/dL), but I used FomraStanzol occasionally to get my E2 to that level. In another lab while I was also using FormaStanzol about a 3 months ago, I pushed my E2 down to 13 ng/dL, elevating my TT to 588. In my initial labs (w/o FormaStanzol use) my E2 was 26.

My Free T is usually around 38 pg/mL (ref 35-155). However, in the lab discussed above from 3 months ago (when I raised my TT to 588), my free T went up to 108. This was an isolated instance, however.

I'm 31 years old.

I haven't had my body fat percentage measured in a while. I would guess somewhere in the 15% area, but I don't know for sure.

I've never used Finasteride. I was on an SSRI for about a month when I was 16 or 17, but that's it.

I am not currently taking any phytoestrogenic herbs. I generally try to avoid soy.

My diet is pretty clean. I try to ride the "paleo" wagon (lots of meat, veggies, and fruit) most of the time, maybe 80%, but I do include grains a couple times a week. I probably have two alcoholic drinks per week.

As for medications, I occasionally use a steroid cream for a psoriasis-like skin rash (parapsoriasis is the actual name). I may use the cream a couple times a week. Interestingly, the rash developed when my low T symptoms were most pronounced (which coincided with a particularly emotionally stressful period).

No amphetamine use.

I do take zinc and magnesium. My copper level is 1.1 (ref 0.9-3.9, I need to check on units). My zinc was 13 (ref 10-21). Magnesium 5.5 (ref 2.0-11.0).

When I was younger, some pollens and dogs seemed to bother me, but not so much as an adult. As for food allergies, there is nothing that overtly bothers me. A food allergy test indicated that I have "very low" antibody results to the following: lobster, crab, sardine, tuna, oat, alfalfa, garlic and mushrooms.

As for pain tolerance, this isn't something I've every really considered. I would not say that I have an abnormal tolerance one way or the other.

I tried D-aspartic acid for about 7-10 days without any noticeable effects, but I did not try it any longer. Would you recommend trying DAA again, but for a longer period of time?

Thanks again for your help.
 
damage007

damage007

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Jay, thanks for the quick response. I'll try to answer the questions as best as I can. Please let me know if I miss anything.

Prolactin: 5.4 ng/mL (ref 2.0-18.0)

E2: 16.2 pg/mL (corresponding to TT of 364 ng/dL), but I used FomraStanzol occasionally to get my E2 to that level. In another lab while I was also using FormaStanzol about a 3 months ago, I pushed my E2 down to 13 ng/dL, elevating my TT to 588. In my initial labs (w/o FormaStanzol use) my E2 was 26.

My Free T is usually around 38 pg/mL (ref 35-155). However, in the lab discussed above from 3 months ago (when I raised my TT to 588), my free T went up to 108. This was an isolated instance, however.

I'm 31 years old.

I haven't had my body fat percentage measured in a while. I would guess somewhere in the 15% area, but I don't know for sure.

I've never used Finasteride. I was on an SSRI for about a month when I was 16 or 17, but that's it.

I am not currently taking any phytoestrogenic herbs. I generally try to avoid soy.

My diet is pretty clean. I try to ride the "paleo" wagon (lots of meat, veggies, and fruit) most of the time, maybe 80%, but I do include grains a couple times a week. I probably have two alcoholic drinks per week.

As for medications, I occasionally use a steroid cream for a psoriasis-like skin rash (parapsoriasis is the actual name). I may use the cream a couple times a week. Interestingly, the rash developed when my low T symptoms were most pronounced (which coincided with a particularly emotionally stressful period).

No amphetamine use.

I do take zinc and magnesium. My copper level is 1.1 (ref 0.9-3.9, I need to check on units). My zinc was 13 (ref 10-21). Magnesium 5.5 (ref 2.0-11.0).

When I was younger, some pollens and dogs seemed to bother me, but not so much as an adult. As for food allergies, there is nothing that overtly bothers me. A food allergy test indicated that I have "very low" antibody results to the following: lobster, crab, sardine, tuna, oat, alfalfa, garlic and mushrooms.

As for pain tolerance, this isn't something I've every really considered. I would not say that I have an abnormal tolerance one way or the other.

I tried D-aspartic acid for about 7-10 days without any noticeable effects, but I did not try it any longer. Would you recommend trying DAA again, but for a longer period of time?

Thanks again for your help.


There's a very delicate balance between T:E, my main concern here would be your low-scale free T levels...
Assuming you have no genetic history of X chromosome (mother's side) mutations, or abnormal kereo types, that may lead to androgen insensitivity - I would say you need to get your Free T levels up.

DHT may be another valuable blood test, but...chances are it's OK if you have adequate chest hair, facial hair/pubic development / phallis development etc.

The paleo diet is good...which "steroid cream" are you using? If it's a corticosteroid, that can lower your testosterone levels as well.
There are usually better ways to reduce inflammation, I normally use herbal anti-inflammatory creams or things that have topical anti-histamine properties, usually a lot better and less side-effects.

You may want to consider switching creams or to natural ointments/solutions ....

No testicular injury or vericocele or anything like that?

Raising free T, continuing with a mild anti-estrogen, considering its helped bring up levels before...and switching creams if it's a corticosteroid may be the most valuable advice you can hear...seeing as people often overlook statements, and medical doctors often overlook the more subtle factors.
 
lboston

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Curious, why did you discontinue the clomid.
My stats are very similar to yours, only I'm 30.

Any kids, major life stressors, sleep problems?
 

Blue30

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Thanks guys. Jay, I have not checked my DHT levels, but I am pretty hairy. The steroid cream I use is a corticosteroid (Triamcinolone). Do you have some suggestions for other creams to try?

No testicular injury or vericocele. I did see a urologist to eliminate these factors.

What are the most productive ways to raise free T? Do you have any suggestions?

Iboston, I guess I was looking more for a "solution" or identification of the problem (if there is one) before resorting to clomid. I guess that's just me being hopeful. Sometimes I can tell when my levels are high and other times when there low, even when I'm not supplementing with anything. I suppose I'm trying to nail down what could cause the oscillation so I can work on eliminating/correcting that factor. That's my goal, anyway. However, I'm beginning to resign to the fact that it may not be possible. I'm running out of things to try or things to look for. If you have any more suggestions, I would really appreciate them.

As for the clomid, I never really tried it at a maintenance dose to see how I felt on it. My doctor only had me try the clomid for the "clomid challenge" to see if I would respond. During the challenge, I honestly couldn't "feel" much of a difference, but it's my understanding that is pretty typical response due to the huge elevation of estrogen accompanying the increase in T. My doctor offered to let me try it at a maintenance dose, but wanted me to cycle it on for a month or two and then off for a month or two. At the time (and I suppose still now) I was looking for more than a "50%" solution. If you don't mind me asking, do you use clomid? If so, has the experience been positive?

I do not have any kids. I did have some pretty stressful relationship issues a couple years ago (when I first really started to notice the low T issues), but I do not have any major stresses right now, and I haven't since then. I sleep well, and a lot. I usually get 8.5-9 hours a night, but even then it can sometimes be difficult to get moving in the morning.

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it.
 

Mr.TT

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I may have missed this in your posts, OPIATES?, where is your FSH and LH? TSH, FT3, FT4, TT3, TT4?

Have you considered hCG? (maybe sublingually) and watch your E2.
 

Blue30

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No sir, no illicit opiate use. I had a percocet prescription maybe 10 years ago when I had my tonsils removed (if that's relevant), but that is it.

Here are my thyroid labs:
TSH 1.98 mIU/L (ref 0.4-4.5)
TT4 6.0 mcg.dL (ref 4.5-12)
FT4 1.2 ng/dL (ref 0.8-1.8)
TT3 67* ng/dL (ref 76-181) ---> out of range
FT3 3.2 pg.mL (ref 2.3-4.2)
RT3 19.4 ng/dL (ref 9.2-24.1)

I've had several LH labs (below), but I don't think I've ever checked my FSH. At least not that I'm able to find in my records. If it's easier to see images of the labs, please let me know.

Test 1: LH 5.1 mIU/mL (ref 1.5-9.3), corresponding to TT of 333
Test 2: LH 3.3, corresponding to TT of 441
Test 3: LH 10.7*, corresponding to TT of 1140 ---> *clomid challenge
Test 4: LH 4.6, corresponding to TT of 385
Test 5: LH 6.3, TT 588 --> occasional use of FormaStanzol

Mr. TT, I have not really considered hCG. What are the benefits/downsides in comparison to clomid? Is hCG a long term commitment, similar to TRT?
 

Mr.TT

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DHEAs level? Pregnenolone ievel?

Maybe a mix would work, like a little hCG and a SMALL dose of Aromasin.

Do you know your SHBG or DHT( just curious)?

This not a medical term, but, it looks like you have lazy balls. They work, but the need
a lot motivation(LH).
 
damage007

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DHEAs? Pregnenolone ?

Maybe a mix would work, A little hCG and a SMALL dose of Aromasin.
This sounds like a decent idea, and also OP, try doing more resistance weight training, you could also try http://barlowesherbalelixirs.com/33-nettle-high-potency-extract.html


This is known to raise free T; I've used it on several occasions to augment other products.

In addition, try to eat more crab and seafood proteins if you are not allergic.
Add more eggs and stuff.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CREAMS : Something like this might help...http://www.iherb.com/Natralia-Eczema-Psoriasis-Cream-2-oz-56-g/9159?gclid=CIaf4ZSej8MCFdc7gQod7DgATQ

Look around and do some research, just try to find something that's not corticosteroid based.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Definitely agree with pregnenolone and DHEA, as well as hCG and aromasin.
Adding TestForce II not just DAA; would help along with pregnenolone and DHEA.

The logic behind this is pregnenolone and DHEA are POSITIVE MODULATORS OF NMDA-RECEPTORS; which DAA/SARCOSINE activates..this ensures full effect from DAA - most don't understand how this works...

Check out my article on this. http://area1255.blogspot.com/2015/01/how-to-upregulate-nmda-receptors-and.html
 

Blue30

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My DHEAs level is 270 mcg/dL (ref 106-464). I have not had my pregnenolone levels checked. I do have my progesterone levels, if that is helpful. So what types of things would help with the "lazy balls"? Vitamin E/tocopherols, or something else that helps with leydig cell sensitivity?

I do not know my SHBG or DHT levels.
 

Blue30

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I'll order some of the Nettle extract and the Testforce - thanks for the suggestion.

How are the seafood proteins particularly beneficial? The omega 3 content?
 
damage007

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I'll order some of the Nettle extract and the Testforce - thanks for the suggestion.

How are the seafood proteins particularly beneficial? The omega 3 content?
That, and the specific composition of amino acids...omega-3's help produce Prostaglandins, which play a role in testosterone production and nitric oxide synthesis.

Testforce has both DAA and sarcosine...that's the good point of it.
A co-activator and direct agonist of NMDA allows for a better test boost.

I've personally always noticed better mental focus, and strength gains as well as Test increases on that one...
 
damage007

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I'll order some of the Nettle extract and the Testforce - thanks for the suggestion.

How are the seafood proteins particularly beneficial? The omega 3 content?
Also if you can , use a little aromasin as suggested above and since it helped you before.
 
damage007

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My DHEAs level is 270 mcg/dL (ref 106-464). I have not had my pregnenolone levels checked. I do have my progesterone levels, if that is helpful. So what types of things would help with the "lazy balls"? Vitamin E/tocopherols, or something else that helps with leydig cell sensitivity?

I do not know my SHBG or DHT levels.
Knowing your progesterone would help as well...as it has a role in estrogen regulation.
 

Mr.TT

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OP, what were the ranges on those E2 blood test results?????
 

Blue30

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Thanks, I'll have my progesterone levels check. I'm going to try the testforce and nettle, and have my T checked also when I check the progesterone.
 

Blue30

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E2: 26 pg/mL (Ref: <56)
13 ng/dL, (Ref: <29)
16.2 pg/mL (Ref: 7.6-42.6)

On the last two labs, I was using FormaStanzol and calcium d-glucorate to reduce to E2 levels. See any issues here?
 
damage007

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E2: 26 pg/mL (Ref: <56)
13 ng/dL, (Ref: <29)
16.2 pg/mL (Ref: 7.6-42.6)

On the last two labs, I was using FormaStanzol and calcium d-glucorate to reduce to E2 levels. See any issues here?
I would continue and use a free T booster as well.
 

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