Age ranges used to determine normal testosterone levels?

NateDEEzy

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Hey everybody

I just went to the doctor again after getting tested for testosterone levels. Quick background, I have a pretty good understanding of TRT bc I researched it a lot a few years ago since I haven't been able to ever grow facial hair and have gynecomastia. Years ago I tested okay, 500-700, but recently I have no energy and am depressed and anxious and just miserable with no quality of life, so that's why I went back to get tested.

This time my level was in the 300's, which I know despite falling in the "normal range", is low. And so I talked with my doctor and I know more about it than she does, which is super frustrating, especially since she'sa brand new doctor and just got the most up to date education. Anyway, I know she doesn't know much about itbc she wasn't sure if estrogen turned into testosterone or the other way around. She thought it was the first and I had to tell her I thought it was the other, and then I asked if they prescribe ai with their protocol, which she looked confused and so I had to explain taking test raises estrogen bc of what i just mentioned and this can cancel out some of the benefits, yada yada, anyway, just pointing out that she doesn't know much about the subject. And so she also keeps telling me that the normal ranges for testosterone were determined by testing only younger men. Something like 18 to 30 year old men. Anyway, this doesn't sound right to me based on my past research, unfortunately I can't remember where to find the info that shows ranges and explains the age range of the men tested.

So I was hoping someone on here could point me to either a quest diagnostics or any other study that shows not only the chart with the normal ranges, but also shows the age range of the people tested. I only used quest as an example bc it's a common company used for these tests and having that to show her would right away dismiss what she's been telling me.
Thanks in advance for any help!

Frustrated Nate
 

NateDEEzy

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I forgot to mention I'm currently 28 years old. White male. 6'6" 200 lbs
 
kenpoengineer

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If you can, run from this doctor! Ask to be referred to an endocrinologist for further testing. I'm assuming you are NOT cycling PHs or AAS or SARMs. At your age your test should be much higher. Google testosterone vs age. Either way your doctor is not able to help.
 
scope75

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Have your GP refer you to a endo.
I'm 29 and have No T..
Went threw the same crap your going threw right now and after my second office visit I was fed up and asked to be referred to a specialist/endo and hope to be seen in January.
My GP gave me a Rx for Androgel snd its pending approval from my insurance company. Depending on price I may or may not pick it up because I want Test C so I don't have to mess around with gels.
If the price is right in the gel I'll pick it up and hold on to it for down the road and it's good for increasing DHT.
Here's what tanked T looks like.
 

NateDEEzy

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Thanks for the replies! And Yeah I know. She's actually really nice and is sending me to an endocrinologist. But I just have a feeling he's going to tell me the same thing bc another endo i saw in the past said they wouldn't treat if within the normal range too. And so that's why I wanted to come equipped with a study that shows that those normal ranges were determined not only by testing young men but also older men.
 

kisaj

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There are several ranges depending on who you use for the lab work. I personally have had labs use 250-1100, 250-850, 320-1250. All other tests will be in line with those ranges that are used for total test.

Lab ranges are generally 18-85, but my first endo did use a lab company that used 25-90 as the reference range.

There really isn't a consensus on this topic so that is why it is important to use labs to support symptoms and serve as an indicator of problems. That doctor of yours is not good and you need to find another if you have hopes for decent care.
 
scope75

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Thanks for the replies! And Yeah I know. She's actually really nice and is sending me to an endocrinologist. But I just have a feeling he's going to tell me the same thing bc another endo i saw in the past said they wouldn't treat if within the normal range too. And so that's why I wanted to come equipped with a study that shows that those normal ranges were determined not only by testing young men but also older men.
If that's the case tell your endo you have ugl test and will just start your own trt but you'd rather do it right and under a doctors supervision.

But first start off explaining your quality of life sucks and something will be done one way or another.
 

kisaj

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Yeah, that is definitely not what you want to do. You don't go to an endo and tell them you have illegally obtained testosterone and expect help.
 
scope75

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Yeah, that is definitely not what you want to do. You don't go to an endo and tell them you have illegally obtained testosterone and expect help.
Well I've read it works when your close to out of range and quality of life sucks.
I have the bloods to prove my situation so indidnt need to take that route but I would've if I needed too.
 

kisaj

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You've read that an option is to go to a specialist and essentially threaten to take ugl test if they don't help you? LOL.
 
scope75

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You've read that an option is to go to a specialist and essentially threaten to take ugl test if they don't help you? LOL.
Sure have....
And that's exactly what I would've done if I had too.
 

NateDEEzy

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I'm hoping the endo will be cool and understanding. And I know about the varying ranges and have a pretty good understanding of the subject as a whole, Im just looking for an actual study that shows the average testosterone ranges (to show my doctor they are similar to the numbers from commonly used labs) and then what I'm mostly looking for is actual language in the study that spells out that the group of men used in the study were from x age to x age so I can show my doctor that the average ranges these labs use aren't determined by only testing young men but actually men from all ages.

This way i can make the argument that since my number is near the bottom of the normal range, my number is actual more closely related to the older men that were tested, since we know testosterone drops with age.

So I'm basically just looking for a study that explains what the age range of the men used to gather the data was, and then what that data is.
 
scope75

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Or you could just stay up late for a few nights and drink some booze the night before your blood test to tank your T. Lol
I don't have to do any of that but it'll work.
 
T-Bone

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I don't know about lying and manipulating your doctor to get on TRT, especially when you are so young still. That might tend to end up biting you in the ass later on down the road. Why not see if you can work with your doctor or endo to see if you can get your natural levels going again?. "We" don't know your medical history, only the doctor does. So just maybe the doctor is making an informed decision based on your history. "We" only know your side of the story and "We" can't be expected to make any kind of medical decision for you.
 
scope75

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Yeah bloods need to be done and posted to help you out.
 

kisaj

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You don't need to bring any studies to the endo to make your point- that is their job and why you get the referral. You inform yourself and work with your endo to find the proper treatment and make sure you actually do need TRT. This is a process and takes time to dial in, so communication and patience are key.
 

NateDEEzy

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I know I only have about 4 posts on this site but I have over 2 years of personal research on the subject from when started researching this and first got tested years ago, so I know almost everything there is to know on the subject in terms of what you can find on the Internet, not trying to brag, but I'm just trying to emphasize that while I appreciate you guy taking the time to help, I only need to be pointed to a testosterone levels study that clearly states the age ranges of the men participating.
 

sammpedd88

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I know I only have about 4 posts on this site but I have over 2 years of personal research on the subject from when started researching this and first got tested years ago, so I know almost everything there is to know on the subject in terms of what you can find on the Internet, not trying to brag, but I'm just trying to emphasize that while I appreciate you guy taking the time to help, I only need to be pointed to a testosterone levels study that clearly states the age ranges of the men participating.
I myself have studied the piss out of TRT and been on it for nearly a year and a half. To my knowledge there is no study regarding age and levels. For example take two 40 year olds that aren't on TRT that are equal to health level and give them a complete blood work up. One may have T levels in the classic LabCorps range of 600, 1100 being max in the range. The other 40 year old may have levels of 450 in the same range, yet neither one display any signs of low T. What I'm getting at is don't get too caught up in your levels. Some guys on TRT feel better in the upper range of 800-1000 where others feel better in the 600-700 range. It's very individualized. Also don't get caught up in Total T levels. Your feee T is the most important. My dr doesn't even test my total T anymore. Only free T among other things. Arm yourself with the knowledge you have because knowledge is power. Also exhaust all other avenues before committing to TRT. Believe me I wouldn't give it up for nothing but let's face it, I'd much rather not stick a needle in my body twice a week and take an AI 2-3 times a week. Good luck to you and let us know how your endo visit goes. If your endo seems to be like your other Dr, then run like hell to another one. Don't give up on finding the right Dr!
 

NateDEEzy

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Thanks for the reply. All I'm looking for is just even a side note that says the age ranges of the men involved. I know what you're saying about the levels of each person being different, that's not what I'm looking for, I'm just looking to show my doctor that the normal ranges that labs use weren't determined from only gathering testosterone levels of young men, but rather from men of all ages. She says they were determined by testing only young men, like 18 to 30 or so and I don't think that's true. I don't want any other person going to her with this problem to have to face getting advice from incorrect information, if that's happens to be the case, I'm just trying to see if she was right or wrong.
 

kisaj

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If your goal is to educate the doctor, why not just have her contact the lab that she uses and ask them what the age range is that they use. She obviously has no business dealing with hormones and it is not your job to be a savior regardless of the knowledge you feel you have amassed.
 

made2last

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I worked for an Orthopedic surgeon for 4 years and hes a cool dude, he said he would order my blood work before i see an Endo, my question is what do i ask to be tested for, what i came up with from reading in here is this:
Test- free and total
estradiol
DHT
DHEA
PSA
Homocysteine
Lutenizing hormone
Sex hormone binding globulin.
Is this good? is it too much? will i scare the endo away with something like this? LOL
Im 35 constantly fatgued, anxious, and get pissed easily lately. when I take OTC test boosters i feel a nice boost in strength and other benefits so Im almost positive my levels are crap.
 

made2last

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I also stocked up on a few PHs because of the ban, does anyone know how much PHs raise your test levels, I dont want to risk my treatment but also want to benefit from the items I bought over the last few weeks.
 
scope75

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Test total/free/bio
LH
FSH
SHBG
Estrogen sensitive for males
Cortisol
Prolactin
LFT
DHT
CBC
CMP
GH/IGF
A1C
TSH
T3
T4
Vit D
B6
B12
Ferritin

PHs/DS just shut you down and lower your test levels.
 

made2last

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Will insurance pay for all of those tests? or will I have to pay for some or all of it?
 
scope75

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Will insurance pay for all of those tests? or will I have to pay for some or all of it?
Everyone's insurance is different but if they don't cover it and you have low t it'll be worth the cash.
I didnt even ask if it's covered because having low t sucks and money can be made back.
 

kisaj

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You want the referral because insurance will cover almost all hormone labs if it is requested by a specialist instead of your PCP. Some insurance will balk at covering anything other than total test from a PCP. The list that scope provided is pretty extensive and would be worked into in most cases as needed, but is a good one. The 3 endos I know would all start with a lifestyle eval, order a Dexa, possible MRI, and the following tests:

est total/free/bio
LH
FSH
SHBG
Estrogen sensitive for males
Cortisol
Prolactin
DHT
CBC
CMP
A1C
TSH
thyroid (T3, T4, free T4)
Pregnenolone
DHEA
 
Tagger

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Yeah, that is definitely not what you want to do. You don't go to an endo and tell them you have illegally obtained testosterone and expect help.
It does work.

It is just like when I knew I had ADD and I got some of my friends meds and they helped. Like night and day help.

Then I talked to someone and told them what happened and they got me on the meds.
 
scope75

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Most doctors just lie and manipulate there patients so either way someone is getting screwed.

They should be handing you Test just like they do with all there legal Herion and **** drugs that Fu<k people up every damn day.
 
T-Bone

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Most doctors just lie and manipulate there patients so either way someone is getting screwed.

They should be handing you Test just like they do with all there legal Herion and **** drugs that Fu<k people up every damn day.
You'd get a long good with Ched...forget his full nickname.
 

made2last

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Yea i got an appt next week, its sad I gotta hope my levels are low enough to get a measly absolute minimum amount of test.
 

kisaj

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If you can address symptoms without going on TRT, that is ideal. Work with your endo and don't just expect/demand to get on it.
 
scope75

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Lucky my appointment isn't until the 22 or 26 of this month.
I'll be going right for the injections and the upper limit/range. I've lived long enough with low t so now I want near the top levels.
 
scope75

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If you can address symptoms without going on TRT, that is ideal. Work with your endo and don't just expect/demand to get on it.

Yeah if you can get yourself jump started that would be much better.
I've been told there's not much hope for any of that with my levels and conditions.
 

made2last

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What does that involve? Clomid? A friend of mine goes to him and he got prescribed roll on testosterone and no AI, Im guessing ill be treated in a similar way, the major difference between me and my friend is I have had bad head injuries and used anabolics in the past with no pct (back then no one did) he hasn't had any of those things so he's being treated for sleep apnea.
 
scope75

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Not exactly sure but your appointment is soon enough. Just don't leave until your completly satisfied.
 

made2last

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My friend is 38, he told me this Endo told him of the bat "your 38, im not going to keep you on testosterone forever" should i be worried? lol
 

kisaj

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Yes, very. You need to go in informed and have a discussion with them.

How I would approach it is with an open discussion. Tell the endo the symptoms you are having and let him know you want to run full labs to determine if everything is normal as a first approach. If something comes back out of whack, then look to see if simple lifestyle improvements can make a difference- again, something to discuss. If he agrees and you are comfortable, then try that for X period of time and test again. If this isn't the route, then determine if a possible 'kick start' may be a possibility. Generally this is done with Clomid for a short period of time. The last resort is going on TRT. If that is the path, then discuss protocol and how/what you will be taking. If injections are decided upon, do not agree to anything less than 1x injection per week and start at the lowest dose- typically around 100mg a week.

I've been on TRT for almost 4 years and took a full year of lab work, endo visits, and trial error before deciding to go the TRT route.
 
scope75

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My friend is 38, he told me this Endo told him of the bat "your 38, im not going to keep you on testosterone forever" should i be worried? lol
Yes because TRT is for LIFE. LOL
You can come off but for what reason I have no idea.
 

made2last

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Awesome guys, thanks alot. I just took my son to the pediatrician because of his ear infection, and those fucxers run in and run out as soon as possible, granted i want to be in and out as well, but that was just blatant, I hope my endo visit goes better. Hey 1 quick question, I picked up a few bottles of Phs, and assuming my test levels are low enough to get a topical form of test (only going off of what he did for my friend) I was planning on using the topical test as a base for my PHs, would you guys do that or no?
 
scope75

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I wouldn't do that right away but when your doctor visits are spaced out every 6 months I would.
 

sammpedd88

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My friend is 38, he told me this Endo told him of the bat "your 38, im not going to keep you on testosterone forever" should i be worried? lol
Run like hell from that Dr and find another one. If you need to be on TRT then yes it is for life.
 

sammpedd88

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Awesome guys, thanks alot. I just took my son to the pediatrician because of his ear infection, and those fucxers run in and run out as soon as possible, granted i want to be in and out as well, but that was just blatant, I hope my endo visit goes better. Hey 1 quick question, I picked up a few bottles of Phs, and assuming my test levels are low enough to get a topical form of test (only going off of what he did for my friend) I was planning on using the topical test as a base for my PHs, would you guys do that or no?
I wouldn't use anything that has an affect on your test until all blood work is in. Also remember if you do get on TRT and add something else to it you run the risk of throwing everything out of whack. Especially your E2
 

made2last

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I went and picked up my bloodwork from 11/2012, I tried to post it here but I dont know how to resize a pic, anyhow my total test was 304 with a normal reference range of 241-827 according to Quest labs. Free test wasnt done. Then I go to Quest labs website and see they changed the normal range to 250-1100. My current test levels might be even higher now because I have been eating a ton of eggs, chicken, fish, beef, beef liver and supplementing with zinc, magnesium oil and liquid vit d3 5000 ius, I stopped all supplementing, but i still eat my eggs. Will an endo treat me even if I fall within normal ranges? my appointement with him will be next week, any reccomendations? Sorry for the long post, I dont wanna mess this up.
 

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