3 months of TRT a little perplexed

[Manny18]

First off, I'm 53 years old been working out consistently 4 times per week for 16 months with every workout starting with cardio >80% for 20 mins followed by 45 mins weights. Felt a little off 3 months ago and had bloodwork done everything great except TT at 155 E2-19. Well doc started me off at 100 mg cyp/wk, 500 units HCG 2x/wk and started feeling somewhat better but not the "new man" feeling I expected after 3 weeks. 3 months later had my follow up bloods and my TT is 253, E2-26. I'd thought my TT would atleast come up to 400. Doc today upped Cyp to 150mg/wk and doc dosed down my HCG to 250/2x wk and added .5mg of Arimidex 2 x/wk. Should I have not been surprised at the only slight increase in TT? Attached is recent pic (270lbs) which seems to me a little surprising I got to here with TT of 155-

253. I was 300lbs with 40%BF and a 44 inch waist 16 months ago.

 

[sammpedd88]

First off, I'm 53 years old been working out consistently 4 times per week for 16 months with every workout starting with cardio >80% for 20 mins followed by 45 mins weights. Felt a little off 3 months ago and had bloodwork done everything great except TT at 155 E2-19. Well doc started me off at 100 mg cyp/wk, 500 units HCG 2x/wk and started feeling somewhat better but not the "new man" feeling I expected after 3 weeks. 3 months later had my follow up bloods and my TT is 253, E2-26. I'd thought my TT would atleast come up to 400. Doc today upped Cyp to 150mg/wk and doc dosed down my HCG to 250/2x wk and added .5mg of Arimidex 2 x/wk. Should I have not been surprised at the only slight increase in TT? Attached is recent pic (270lbs) which seems to me a little surprising I got to here with TT of 155- <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108578"/> 253. I was 300lbs with 40%BF and a 44 inch waist 16 months ago.

First of all congrats on the body transformation. Be proud that you took your health in your own hands and made a positive change! Not as far as TRT....when you start on test your body's natural production will slow down and eventually stop. HCG is supposed to help keep the body's natural production going. It takes a while for the T to start to pick up and to get your protocol dialed in. As far as the arimidex, it is VERY powerful stuff. It can drop your E2 so fast you won't know what hit you and you will feel like the walking dead! Some usually start with .25 Mgs every third day and assess how they feel and get labs done to ensure you're in range. Also have your DHEA, pregnenolone and vitamin D3 checked. You could be low there also. HCG tends to drive E2 levels up and make it hard to stabilize them. Some , like myself, don't use HCG. Some even say don't take it unless you're wanting to have children.

 

[EasyEJL]

well, 100 a week is low, but what day (relative to injection day) did you get the blood drawn? if it was the day before injection, its not totally crazy.

 

[sammpedd88]

First off, I'm 53 years old been working out consistently 4 times per week for 16 months with every workout starting with cardio >80% for 20 mins followed by 45 mins weights. Felt a little off 3 months ago and had bloodwork done everything great except TT at 155 E2-19. Well doc started me off at 100 mg cyp/wk, 500 units HCG 2x/wk and started feeling somewhat better but not the "new man" feeling I expected after 3 weeks. 3 months later had my follow up bloods and my TT is 253, E2-26. I'd thought my TT would atleast come up to 400. Doc today upped Cyp to 150mg/wk and doc dosed down my HCG to 250/2x wk and added .5mg of Arimidex 2 x/wk. Should I have not been surprised at the only slight increase in TT? Attached is recent pic (270lbs) which seems to me a little surprising I got to here with TT of 155- <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108578"/> 253. I was 300lbs with 40%BF and a 44 inch waist 16 months ago.

First of all congrats on the body transformation. Be proud that you took your health in your own hands and made a positive change! Not as far as TRT....when you start on test your body's natural production will slow down and eventually stop. HCG is supposed to help keep the body's natural production going. It takes a while for the T to start to pick up and to get your protocol dialed in. As far as the arimidex, it is VERY powerful stuff. It can drop your E2 so fast you won't know what hit you and you will feel like the walking dead! Some usually start with .25 Mgs every third day and assess how they feel and get labs done to ensure you're in range. Also have your DHEA, pregnenolone and vitamin D3 checked. You could be low there also. HCG tends to drive E2 levels up and make it hard to stabilize them. Some , like myself, don't use HCG. Some even say don't take it unless you're wanting to have children.

 

[Manny18]

Thanks for the kind words and the great info Sammpedd88. Also had my bloods drawn right before my injection. I have a saliva Dhea/cortisol test that I've not used. I've heard there not extremely accurate. Is Arimidex easily split 4 ways? I will sure to try that as my E2 is not all that high but doc said it will go up higher now that I'm at 150 a week. I've used Dermacrine before and like that stuff for DHEA and Pregnalone. I do get a lot of sun, does that affect d3 like it does D?

 

[sammpedd88]

Thanks for the kind words and the great info Sammpedd88. Also had my bloods drawn right before my injection. I have a saliva Dhea/cortisol test that I've not used. I've heard there not extremely accurate. Is Arimidex easily split 4 ways? I will sure to try that as my E2 is not all that high but doc said it will go up higher now that I'm at 150 a week. I've used Dermacrine before and like that stuff for DHEA and Pregnalone. I do get a lot of sun, does that affect d3 like it does D?

I have a pill cutter I bought at the local drug store and it works perfectly. Do you self inject? If not talk to your dr about it and talk to him about splitting your weekly dose into two doses. I inject slightly over 100 mgs a week so I split the dose and inject every Wednesday and Saturday afternoon. That can help keep your E2 low. Sunlight won't help D3. Most supplement with 5000 iu's of D3 a day. I've heard the saliva test isn't accurate. I always have mine tested through blood. I go every two months for labs.

 

[Manny18]

I don't self inject the Test as I'm a little weird with that still even though I do the HcG as this is simple subcutaneous with a very small needle. Don't know if I can wrap my brain around doing the intramuscular shot. It makes sense though on splitting it up into two and may try to have the Tech aid me next week into doing myself. I will give the d3 a try as I'm a Supp junkie as you can see! Lol

 

[EasyEJL]

your e2 may also be better without the HCG at all. as was mentioned really the only reason to use HCG is if you believe you'll want to have children in the future, and failing that solely for visual purposes - to reduce any testicle shrinkage. also 500 2x a week is at the high end, you may very well do better at 250 2x a week.

You know what is probably the main reason he has you at 500 2x a week? a normal hcg vial is 10,000 units and has a 10 week shelf life once reconstituted - so 1000 a week.

 

[sammpedd88]

I don't self inject the Test as I'm a little weird with that still even though I do the HcG as this is simple subcutaneous with a very small needle. Don't know if I can wrap my brain around doing the intramuscular shot. It makes sense though on splitting it up into two and may try to have the Tech aid me next week into doing myself. I will give the d3 a try as I'm a Supp junkie as you can see! Lol <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108592"/>

The IM injections are nothing man! I had never injected anybody or myself until TRT and the nurse showed me how. There are some great YouTube videos on it as well. As far as the DHEA and preg, it's best using sublingual. In general the dr will probably start you off with 25mgs of DHEA and preg, possibly a little more on the preg depending on how low it is. It's also cheaper taking it sublingually. The dermacrine would be expensive because you would have to use several pumps to get the amount of DHEA and preg you need. Just a thought. If I run out of anything I'm calling you. You prob have it stored in the cabinet of yours!

 

[Manny18]

I'm going to have the nurse show me next week to see if I can get over it. I don't plan on having more children at 53 so I guess I'll have to ask the doc why I'm taking it other than shrinkage. When I was at 500 2 x a week i felt fatigue 24 hours after i injected. Now that I'm at 250 it's way better. Any ideas on a good sub dhea/preg?

 

[EasyEJL]

Now brand is decent, but any of them should be fine. can find them at most any natural food store. its not like either of those are something rare or expensive so they are produced about the same by everyone.

 

[Manny18]

Easy, headed to my favorite place now and may have to take over a second cabinet! Lol

 

[sammpedd88]

I'm going to have the nurse show me next week to see if I can get over it. I don't plan on having more children at 53 so I guess I'll have to ask the doc why I'm taking it other than shrinkage. When I was at 500 2 x a week i felt fatigue 24 hours after i injected. Now that I'm at 250 it's way better. Any ideas on a good sub dhea/preg?

I just purchased two bottles each of DHEA Swanson Brand and pregnenolone Source Naturals brand from Swanson's website. With shipping is was around $27. I've ordered from them a few times before.

 

[Manny18]

I just purchased two bottles each of DHEA Swanson Brand and pregnenolone Source Naturals brand from Swanson's website. With shipping is was around $27. I've ordered from them a few times before.

What dosage did you order for both DHEA and Pregnelone? I really should get my levels checked first as if I'm not deficient , too much is a bad thing with these 2 hormones

 

[sammpedd88]

What dosage did you order for both DHEA and Pregnelone? I really should get my levels checked first as if I'm not deficient , too much is a bad thing with these 2 hormones

Yeah you're better off getting your levels checked first. I'm "prescribed" pregnenolone 50 Mgs a day and DHEA 25 mgs a day. That could change when I go next week to go over my blood work.

 

[Manny18]

Wonder why this TRT doc on my initial bloods and 3 month follow up bloods didn't check for DHEA and Preg? Is both of these typical tests?

 

[Gutterpump]

Any ideas on a good sub dhea/preg?

I'm a big fan of BPS Dermacrine (transdermal)
Great price and great formula

 

[sammpedd88]

Wonder why this TRT doc on my initial bloods and 3 month follow up bloods didn't check for DHEA and Preg? Is both of these typical tests?

They are pretty standard tests due to the role they play in the hormone world.

 

[v4lu3s]

It took me 6 months at 100 mg a week to get stable levels.
Right now I am at 450-500 just before my shot and at 1100+ right after the shot.
TRT is not some sudden cure all though, it does take time for it to really make a difference.

btw i do subcutaneous OR IM depending on my mood that day. makes no difference in my levels.

 

[Manny18]

It took me 6 months at 100 mg a week to get stable levels.
Right now I am at 450-500 just before my shot and at 1100+ right
after the shot.
TRT is not some sudden cure all though, it does take time for it to really make a difference.

btw i do subcutaneous OR IM depending on my mood that day. makes no difference in my levels.

Great to know, I didn't know the levels changed so much pre and post shot. Are you still at 100 mg?

 

[kisaj]

Wonder why this TRT doc on my initial bloods and 3 month follow up bloods didn't check for DHEA and Preg? Is both of these typical tests?

No they are not typical, but they need to be. Many times they will only test upon request or if you are working with a good endo/doc.

 

[v4lu3s]

Great to know, I didn't know the levels changed so much pre and post shot. Are you still at 100 mg?

Yes, I am approaching the 3rd year anniversary of having started. I have never tested below 450 or over 1100. I can say the past 3 years have been a lot better than the prior 7 or 8 in terms of my self esteem, attitude, appearance and sleep. The only thing I plan on doing is slowly adding some low dose transdermal DHEA and pregnenolone (on my own) and assess how I feel. I started with a fairly old school endo and moved over to my PCP, so I am really having to take charge of things on my own. I would not be able to get the endo to test for more than he did (PSA, hematocrit, and free test) and my pcp just takes a look at total test and several red blood numbers as well as blood pressire and asks how i feel. So doing the backfill of DHEA and Preg..well I will see how it goes. I am going to see if my wife will try both as well, read a lot about that combo doing good things for libido! Would be great to get her as horny as I am!!

 

[kisaj]

Be careful with that and have her see a doc before just giving her hormones. I've known a few ladies that jacked themselves up for a while by messing with pregnenolone as it altered their progesterone.

 

[Manny18]

No libido still, not that I give a crap as that does nothing but making me at 53 start chasing Poon-don't need that! On the other hand it would tell me TRT is starting to work. Since Doc upped me to 150 a week my appetite is kicked up. Starting .5 adex 2 x week today, we'll see how much patience I have splitting those little bastards.