tribulus for helping shutdown?

[Yolked]

Tribulus and DAA have shown to stimulate LH. Anyone try using in place of HCG during cycle to help shriveled nuts... With success? Lol. using a small dose of letrozole daily (3drops) for estrogen issue.

 

[ELROCK]

Tribulus and DAA have shown to stimulate LH. Anyone try using in place of HCG during cycle to help shriveled nuts... With success? Lol. using a small dose of letrozole daily (3drops) for estrogen issue.

Fodgia can prevent testicular shrinkage. I use products with fodgia in it along side my TRT and it keeps the boys nice and plump. It acts similar to hcg, but obviously not as well since it is only a herb. Some products that I have used with success are:

Tropinol xp
HCGenerate ES
HCGenerate
T-Force

 

[sammpedd88]

Fodgia can prevent testicular shrinkage. I use products with fodgia in it along side my TRT and it keeps the boys nice and plump. It acts similar to hcg, but obviously not as well since it is only a herb. Some products that I have used with success are: Tropinol xp HCGenerate ES HCGenerate T-Force

Has Fodgia affected your E2 levels at all?

 

[ELROCK]

Has Fodgia affected your E2 levels at all?

It does not increase estrogen.

 

[sammpedd88]

It does not increase estrogen.

I was just curious about that. Just wanted to make sure. I've never heard of it but am interested in using it.

 

[ELROCK]

I was just curious about that. Just wanted to make sure. I've never heard of it but am interested in using it.

Its definitely worth trying if you are currently on TRT. It can provide testicular plumpness, increase libido and an overall sense of wellbeing.

 

[Thunder13]

Hey ELrock... where can one obtain this "fodgia" ? I am somewhaty familiar with supplements, herbs etc.. But this one has escaped me. Thanks!

Its definitely worth trying if you are currently on TRT. It can provide testicular plumpness, increase libido and an overall sense of wellbeing.

 

[kisaj]

I believe elrock is talking about fadogia. It is a natural aphrodisiac and was shown to raise test levels in a study done years ago.

 

[ELROCK]

Hey ELrock... where can one obtain this "fodgia" ? I am somewhaty familiar with supplements, herbs etc.. But this one has escaped me. Thanks!

I ment fadogia, that is the herb. I listed the products that have it in it and I have used with success. I listed them in my first response in this thread.

 

[Thunder13]

ah yes Thank you,. isn't that the active ingredient in HCGenerate? But can you also direct me on how/where I can buy it ? I believe this could be beneficial to me.

I ment fadogia, that is the herb. I listed the products that have it in it and I have used with success. I listed them in my first response in this thread.

 

[ELROCK]

I believe elrock is talking about fadogia. It is a natural aphrodisiac and was shown to raise test levels in a study done years ago.

Thanks for the correct spelling of the herb. Its main benefits for those of us on TRT is its ability to prevent testicular shrinkage and add testicular fullness. I started using fadogia a few months after starting TRT and it has really worked well for me. I notice the fadogia benefit at the 500-1,200 mg ED mark. However, I do cycle on and off it like anything else. I run it for 16 weeks then 4 weeks off.

 

[kisaj]

That's good info because I've known about it for years and never really found any studies on it. There was so much conflicting information about extracts and standardization that I never felt comfortable with it.

 

[sammpedd88]

Thanks for the correct spelling of the herb. Its main benefits for those of us on TRT is its ability to prevent testicular shrinkage and add testicular fullness. I started using fadogia a few months after starting TRT and it has really worked well for me. I notice the fadogia benefit at the 500-1,200 mg ED mark. However, I do cycle on and off it like anything else. I run it for 16 weeks then 4 weeks off.

Does it affect your test levels? Some of the products it's found in is a test booster and I personally don't know if it's a good idea to take a test booster. But I am open to fact based suggestions of anybody can provide them.

 

[kisaj]

In the study I was referring to, they ran different amounts over 28 days and saw marked increases in all the participants other than the control.

 

[sammpedd88]

In the study I was referring to, they ran different amounts over 28 days and saw marked increases in all the participants other than the control.

Ok cool, thanks!

 

[jbryand101b]

Tribulus and DAA have shown to stimulate LH. Anyone try using in place of HCG during cycle to help shriveled nuts... With success? Lol. using a small dose of letrozole daily (3drops) for estrogen issue.

No, there is nothing you can use orally that is going to act as Lh to keep the testicles sensitive to its effects.

All those supps that boost Lh, will help though post cycle with use of hcg on cycle.

 

[jbryand101b]

Fodgia can prevent testicular shrinkage. I use products with fodgia in it along side my TRT and it keeps the boys nice and plump. It acts similar to hcg, but obviously not as well since it is only a herb. Some products that I have used with success are:

Tropinol xp
HCGenerate ES
HCGenerate
T-Force

If you have fuller testicles on cycle or while on trt, this is due to increased fsh, follicle stimulating hormone, and had nothing to do with Lh unfortunately.
None of those will help for on cycle.
Post cycle is another story.

 

[Yolked]

No, there is nothing you can use orally that is going to act as Lh to keep the testicles sensitive to its effects.

All those supps that boost Lh, will help though post cycle with use of hcg on cycle.

So these things stimulate LH when not using exogenous testosterone but won't when you are using testosterone? Doesn't make sense to me. It does seem to effect shrinkage from what I've noticed. There's definitely a libido boost. And there's proof of LH stimuli so why wouldn't it work? I know it's not going to produce quite like HCG but I say better than nothing..

 

[Yolked]

If you have fuller testicles on cycle or while on trt, this is due to increased fsh, follicle stimulating hormone, and had nothing to do with Lh unfortunately.
None of those will help for on cycle.
Post cycle is another story.

Isn't it LH that stimulates fsh...

 

[jbryand101b]

So these things stimulate LH when not using exogenous testosterone but won't when you are using testosterone? Doesn't make sense to me. It does seem to effect shrinkage from what I've noticed. There's definitely a libido boost. And there's proof of LH stimuli so why wouldn't it work? I know it's not going to produce quite like HCG but I say better than nothing..

Testicular size is from fsh, not Lh.
Testicular size isn't a determination of shut down ie, decreased Luteinizing hormone production.

What happens when androgens bind to certain androgens in the body, a signal is sent, and the body attempts to restore homeostasis by manipulating various hormones, Luteinizing hormone being one of them.

So even though you are taking a supplement that causes a slight increase in Luteinizing hormone, if still using supraphysiological dosages of androgenic hormones, the body is going to still, decrease production of Luteinizing hormone.

This last part, purely hypothetical, but it might also cause even less Luteinizing hormone to be produced in the long run, as the body will sense the imbalance, and try harder to fix it by producing even less Luteinizing hormone.
This is why you have to be careful with hcg dosage because it can increase shut down.

Hcg mimics the effects of Luteinizing hormone preventing the testicles from becoming desensitized to the effects of Luteinizing hormone.
The body continues to produce Luteinizing hormone while on cycle, just in severely diminished amounts.

Fsh aka follicle stimulating hormone is a completely different hormone.

 

[jbryand101b]

Isn't it LH that stimulates fsh...

No, it is gonadotropin releasing hormone that regulates Lh and fsh

 

[Yolked]

Testicular size is from fsh, not Lh.
Testicular size isn't a determination of shut down ie, decreased Luteinizing hormone production.

What happens when androgens bind to certain androgens in the body, a signal is sent, and the body attempts to restore homeostasis by manipulating various hormones, Luteinizing hormone being one of them.

So even though you are taking a supplement that causes a slight increase in Luteinizing hormone, if still using supraphysiological dosages of androgenic hormones, the body is going to still, decrease production of Luteinizing hormone.

This last part, purely hypothetical, but it might also cause even less Luteinizing hormone to be produced in the long run, as the body will sense the imbalance, and try harder to fix it by producing even less Luteinizing hormone.
This is why you have to be careful with hcg dosage because it can increase shut down.

Hcg mimics the effects of Luteinizing hormone preventing the testicles from becoming desensitized to the effects of Luteinizing hormone.
The body continues to produce Luteinizing hormone while on cycle, just in severely diminished amounts.

Fsh aka follicle stimulating hormone is a completely different hormone.

Yeah the shutdown part I knew about... supra-physiological... meaning more than normal. What about a true HRT dose? So the testes desensitization is from lowered levels?

 

[kisaj]

Yes, when your body detects exogenous test, it shuts down. Doesn't matter if it is 100mg or 500mg. It doesn't happen right away, but it does happen.

 

[Yolked]

Yes, when your body detects exogenous test, it shuts down. Doesn't matter if it is 100mg or 500mg.

I know that. I'm questioning the use of the supra-physiological term...

 

[kisaj]

You asked about a TRT dose and I answered that. You said you already understood the part about supra-physiological.

 

[jbryand101b]

Supraphysiological is greater than normally present in the body.

 

[Yolked]

Supraphysiological is greater than normally present in the body.

I know that. If it doesn't matter if it's a true TRT dose or supraphysiological why use the term? It would be ANY dose not a dose greater than normal levels

 

[jbryand101b]

I know that. If it doesn't matter if it's a true TRT dose or supraphysiological why use the term? It would be ANY dose not a dose greater than normal levels

Even with trt dosages you are going to be at supraphysiological dosages.
What is normal is relative to the individual.
You get on trt because your "normal" test levels are below the average. This will be putting you above normal (for you) and so in supraphysiological levels, but at a normal level for the general population.
Understand?

 

[sammpedd88]

Even with trt dosages you are going to be at supraphysiological dosages. What is normal is relative to the individual. You get on trt because your "normal" test levels are below the average. This will be putting you above normal (for you) and so in supraphysiological levels, but at a normal level for the general population. Understand?

Which contradicts your statement.

 

[kisaj]

Even with trt dosages you are going to be at supraphysiological dosages.
What is normal is relative to the individual.
You get on trt because your "normal" test levels are below the average. This will be putting you above normal (for you) and so in supraphysiological levels, but at a normal level for the general population.
Understand?

This is not an accurate statement. We are using normal lab ranges to discuss physiological ranges and TRT is not designed to take you outside of that. The word itself simply means what would normally be found in the body and that is why lab ranges are the determining factor.

 

[jbryand101b]

This is not an accurate statement. We are using normal lab ranges to discuss physiological ranges and TRT is not designed to take you outside of that. The word itself simply means what would normally be found in the body and that is why lab ranges are the determining factor.

What is normal for you physically can not be in the normal range for men your age, otherwise you wouldn't be on trt, you wouldn't need it.

Because your normal is less than what is considered normal for men of your age, your doctor has prescribed you trt to put you in that range.

That range is not what is normal for you physically, if it was, again, you wouldn't need trt, hence trt puts you in supraphysiological range as your normal test levels are lower than other men your age.

I know and understand what your saying, I'm just explaining why I used the word from my point of view.
I'm not on trt so my thoughts on that specific subject don't really matter as I'm not experiencing it.

Ultimately you aren't going to prevent desensitization of the effects Lh from using anything currently available otc, which is the topic of this thread.

 

[jbryand101b]

Which contradicts your statement.

Which statement is that, and how so?

 

[sammpedd88]

Even with trt dosages you are going to be at supraphysiological dosages. What is normal is relative to the individual. You get on trt because your "normal" test levels are below the average. This will be putting you above normal (for you) and so in supraphysiological levels, but at a normal level for the general population. Understand?

You staring that using TRT doses is putting a person "above normal for you". That's untrue and contradicts your use of the word supra physiological. Using TRT doses puts us in normal range period. Normal ranges of what the body is meant to be at. If the statement "above normal for you" we're true, that means that someone with low T can function just fine without TRT and has no negative effects of it. This is not true. Men that need TRT are below normal period and need a dose to put them in a normal range. This, therefore, contradicts your definition of supraphysiological.

 

[Yolked]

What is normal for you physically can not be in the normal range for men your age, otherwise you wouldn't be on trt, you wouldn't need it.

Because your normal is less than what is considered normal for men of your age, your doctor has prescribed you trt to put you in that range.

That range is not what is normal for you physically, if it was, again, you wouldn't need trt, hence trt puts you in supraphysiological range as your normal test levels are lower than other men your age.

I know and understand what your saying, I'm just explaining why I used the word from my point of view.
I'm not on trt so my thoughts on that specific subject don't really matter as I'm not experiencing it.

Ultimately you aren't going to prevent desensitization of the effects Lh from using anything currently available otc, which is the topic of this thread.

Low T isn't normal... and once your natural levels, albeit low, completely shut down you're only getting what you inject. If that dose makes you feel normal (not levels of a male 20 years younger) then you're not talking about a supra-physiological dose. True TRT should be EXACTLY that... replacement of what is missing.

 

[sammpedd88]

Which statement is that, and how so?

Are you on TRT?

 

[kisaj]

He mentioned that he isn't. I think it was just a mistake in wording.

 

[sammpedd88]

He mentioned that he isn't. I think it was just a mistake in wording.

I wonder why people that aren't on TRT get on a TRT forum? There's enough forums for gear out there.

 

[jbryand101b]

You staring that using TRT doses is putting a person "above normal for you". That's untrue and contradicts your use of the word supra physiological. Using TRT doses puts us in normal range period. Normal ranges of what the body is meant to be at. If the statement "above normal for you" we're true, that means that someone with low T can function just fine without TRT and has no negative effects of it. This is not true. Men that need TRT are below normal period and need a dose to put them in a normal range. This, therefore, contradicts your definition of supraphysiological.

People can function with low test.
They did so for thousands of years before hrt came along.
That's nature.

What is normal for a person's natural physiology is unique to them.
There is no one size fits all, everyone is unique.
The general population is a generalization of what is normal for most people.
Getting on trt makes you closer to what most other guys your age are at.

Trt is a luxury. It isn't necessary for living a healthy good life.

You get to tamper with what nature put you at because you have the money to afford to do so.

It is just another step in getting rid of natural selection.

 

[sammpedd88]

People can function with low test. They did so for thousands of years before hrt came along. That's nature. What is normal for a person's natural physiology is unique to them. There is no one size fits all, everyone is unique. The general population is a generalization of what is normal for most people. Getting on trt makes you closer to what most other guys your age are at. Trt is a luxury. It isn't necessary for living a healthy good life. You get to tamper with what nature put you at because you have the money to afford to do so. It is just another step in getting rid of natural selection.

You are totally off base. Yes you can function without TRT, but you suffer effects of it that keeps you from being what is considered as normal. Ultimately a person not receiving TRT treatment that needs it will suffer from health issues, most commonly cardiovascular disease which is the most common killer in men. People on TRT need the treatment just as a diabetic needs insulin, and I'm not referring to a type 2 diabetic that has engorged themselves with food all their life and are now obese. Being on TRT is not a luxury either. It's medication that someone needs to have psychological and physiological normal life. So you're not on TRT, so why are you even on this forum and why are you trying to comment and give advise to people that are on it? What experience do you have relating to TRT do you possess to be able to help anyone?

 

[jbryand101b]

Subject of this thread title is why I'm commenting.
The rest of this talk is just knit picking insignificant details

Like had been stated already, nothing otc is going to prevent desensitization of the effects of lh.

If you want to increase testicular size, that's a different hormone

 

[zcol94]

You are totally off base. Yes you can function without TRT, but you suffer effects of it that keeps you from being what is considered as normal. Ultimately a person not receiving TRT treatment that needs it will suffer from health issues, most commonly cardiovascular disease which is the most common killer in men. People on TRT need the treatment just as a diabetic needs insulin, and I'm not referring to a type 2 diabetic that has engorged themselves with food all their life and are now obese. Being on TRT is not a luxury either. It's medication that someone needs to have psychological and physiological normal life. So you're not on TRT, so why are you even on this forum and why are you trying to comment and give advise to people that are on it? What experience do you have relating to TRT do you possess to be able to help anyone?

notice he is saying that natural selection would be normal, we have basically eliminated that but everything you just mentioned would be a part of natural selection.

 

[sammpedd88]

Subject of this thread title is why I'm commenting. The rest of this talk is just knit picking insignificant details Like had been stated already, nothing otc is going to prevent desensitization of the effects of lh. If you want to increase testicular size, that's a different hormone

No it's not knit picking. It's educating you on TRT. TRT is not a luxury or a want, it's a need. There is nothing normal about having low T. Yes T levels decrease with age, but not below normal ranges. I appreciate your knowledge on the original topic, however when you bring up things about TRT being a luxury, you will rub people the wrong way that's on TRT. We don't want to be on TRT. I sure as hell don't want to inject myself twice a week but I do because I have to to be normal. My T levels without it are way below normal ranges because I'm secondary not primary. TRT puts me in normal ranges for my age. Not the range of a teenager. That's the point I'm trying to get across.

 

[sammpedd88]

notice he is saying that natural selection would be normal, we have basically eliminated that but everything you just mentioned would be a part of natural selection.

Can you explain just a little further. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[jbryand101b]

Can you explain just a little further. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Nvm, can't fix stupid.

Un subbed, answered ops question.

 

[sammpedd88]

notice he is saying that natural selection would be normal, we have basically eliminated that but everything you just mentioned would be a part of natural selection.

Can you explain just a little further. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[zcol94]

Can you explain just a little further. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I'm just looking at it from is side not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, but you were born to have low t from the standpoint of nature your supposed to have low t and that is what's "normal" for your body, and if it weren't for human innovation and the creation of synthetic test then you would have low t just like so many ppl before trt was available, that's why it's a luxury because so many ppl dealt with it before trt was available

 

[sammpedd88]

I'm just looking at it from is side not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, but you were born to have low t from the standpoint of nature your supposed to have low t and that is what's "normal" for your body, and if it weren't for human innovation and the creation of synthetic test then you would have low t just like so many ppl before trt was available, that's why it's a luxury because so many ppl dealt with it before trt was available

You do realize that not everyone on TRT are born with low T? Most people that are secondary have had something else cause the low T later in life. This could be from injuries, medical conditions and so forth. Normal to someone's body is not exactly a correct statement due to the fact they could have no problems with T until later in life due to a condition that causes it.

 

[zcol94]

You do realize that not everyone on TRT are born with low T? Most people that are secondary have had something else cause the low T later in life. This could be from injuries, medical conditions and so forth. Normal to someone's body is not exactly a correct statement due to the fact they could have no problems with T until later in life due to a condition that causes it.

but that condition is a part of natural selection, and that condition caused your body to find a new normal, even if you feel like crap or have other issues because of it, that is your body's new base line, whatever your levels are before you begin trt are the normals for your body, wether it is causing problems or not. "Normal" would be whatever your body is making on its own.

 

[sammpedd88]

but that condition is a part of natural selection, and that condition caused your body to find a new normal, even if you feel like crap or have other issues because of it, that is your body's new base line, whatever your levels are before you begin trt are the normals for your body, wether it is causing problems or not. "Normal" would be whatever your body is making on its own.

So someone that develops clogged arteries is normal? It's not normal nor is it part of a martial selection. A head injury can cause low T. So that's natural selection? Your points aren't making sense.

 

[zcol94]

So someone that develops clogged arteries is normal? It's not normal nor is it part of a martial selection. A head injury can cause low T. So that's natural selection? Your points aren't making sense.

natural selection is meant for the weak to die off, like I said at this point it's basically obsolete, but having clogged arteries although not "normal" nowadays would have been normal back when natural selection played any sort of role in humanity(pre modern medicine)
If you have to take meds of any form then that is taking you out of your normal, natural selection chose you to die of whatever ailment you have, but now we have medicine, and medicine is a luxury, if you understand yet then you don't understand natural selection (survival of the fittest) at all, I'm done here this is so beyond the point of this thread