Worried about side effects of HRT (looking for guidance)

[thunder90]

Hello all,
Quick background. I am 34 years old and have low T. I in last few years I have lost about 140 pounds and currently weigh 190. I love going to the gym and nutrition.

For the last few years I have noticed my libido dropping as well as some ED. This is why I had my T levels checked. Turns out I have low T with a value of 20 Free (35-155 Expected) and 147 Total (250-1100 Expected). I also have low thyroid which I am on medication (Synthroid) for.

After much discussion and research on my part my family doctor wants to treat me with 125 mg testosterone Cypionate weekly. I told him my concerns about Gynecomastia (I'm VERY worried about this) and he told me that he only treats with Test and does not treat with any HCG or AI.

He does not even monitor E2 levels but after much convincing he agreed to at least monitor my E2 levels.

He agreed to refer me to an endocrinologist but felt it was unnecessary as he treats many male patients with HRT. I am making an app with the endo and my hopes are that the endocrinologist may be hopefully willing to treat with HCG and or AI. As gynecomastia may be permanent I'm worried this may be too late.

I'm very tired of have ZERO libido as well as some ED problems, however I'm worried that a treatment not involving some type of HCG or AI may lead to irreversible damage, but I'm very tried of feeling like crap with no libido and some ED problems, low energy, etc.

If the Endo does not want to treat with HCG or AI should I just go for the TRT Test C weekly and monitor my gyno and if I see it coming on self treat with Formeron and get my E2 levels checked? I have a script here filled for a months supply of Test C thinking about just start pinning but I keep going back and forth worrying about gyno and trying to conceive another child with the wife.

Any thoughts or advice?

 

[kisaj]

See the endo. You really want someone that is going to have a much better understanding as your doc obviously doesn't.

 

[thunder90]

See the endo. You really want someone that is going to have a much better understanding as your doc obviously doesn't.

The only problem is that there are ZERO endos in the area that specialize in TRT or anti-aging. I found one that does about 100 miles away and all the reviews online for him says his treatments are archaic and he is using very old school methods and is set in his ways (he is in his 80s).

The endo they want me to see specializes in Diabetes & Thyroid and the reviews online are not that great. I can not find one review that speaks of TRT. So after all my self education online (been researching TRT for months and have spent a lot of time on Dr. John Crisler site and reading his material) I think I might be better off just letting my family doc over see my numbers and just use some type of local AI "Formeron" if any gyno symptoms appear.

Thoughts?

 

[brundel]

If your going on TRT you dont want HCG.
Your dr is NOT the one you want treating you as he clearly has no idea whats going on as he wont prescribe an AI for TRT which is pretty much always done. Or if not should 100% always be available to you. If he doesnt know estrogen levels are important hes a moron and you should fire him straight away.
If this is not possible, use the 125mg and use Formeron for AI support while you look for another DR.

Im not a DR, my comments are for research purposes only.

 

[brundel]

Also use preventative measures. Dont wait till you have breasts growing to use an AI.
Use it from day 1.
start low. 1 pump ED. Bump it up higher if needed.

 

[thunder90]

Also use preventative measures. Dont wait till you have breasts growing to use an AI.
Use it from day 1.
start low. 1 pump ED. Bump it up higher if needed.

Thanks for the response,
I do have an app with an local Endo on Monday and look forward to what he tells me. I hope to remain on the 120mg of test C weekly and since the wife and I are trying to conceive I hope he does put me on Dr. Crisler's (allthingsmale) protocol of HCG 250IU two days before and 1 day before injection to help keep my sperm count up. Also to help combat the E2 levels I hope he allows Dr. Crisler's protocol of AI with Arimidex of .25-.5mg E3D. That is my hope and then I will be set!

I will use the Formeron if needed until that time. I did an E2 test and i'm waiting on see what my normal range is.

Only issue may be is I started a Halodrol cycle this week as well. Hopefully since I just got labs drawn they will wait for about 6-7 weeks until so the PH will not affect the numbers.

 

[brundel]

Thanks for the response,
I do have an app with an local Endo on Monday and look forward to what he tells me. I hope to remain on the 120mg of test C weekly and since the wife and I are trying to conceive I hope he does put me on Dr. Crisler's (allthingsmale) protocol of HCG 250IU two days before and 1 day before injection to help keep my sperm count up. Also to help combat the E2 levels I hope he allows Dr. Crisler's protocol of HCG with Arimidex of .25-.5mg E3D. That is my hope and then I will be set!

I will use the Formeron if needed until that time. I did an E2 test and i'm waiting on see what my normal range is.

Only issue may be is I started a Halodrol cycle this week as well. Hopefully since I just got labs drawn they will wait for about 6-7 weeks until so the PH will not affect the numbers.

HCG can be highly unhealthy long term. I would use it sparingly.

 

[thunder90]

HCG can be highly unhealthy long term. I would use it sparingly.

I did not realize that, I have not done a lot of research on HCG's. I would like to be able to drop it after we have another child, not really looking to take it long term.

It may be possible that I don't need the HCG which in turn will most likely not need an AI due to the low dose test C. From my reaserch at my dose of test C only need to worry about a large increase in E2 is when an HCG is introduced. However I will keep Formeron around and talk with the the endo about keeping some Arimidex on hand and just monitoring my E2 levels.

Might just try for awhile without the HCG and go from there, dunno yet.

 

[kisaj]

Most of us on TRT end up dropping HCG because it ends up causing more problems than anything. Read up in the Anti-aging thread or poke around a bit on other sites for additional experiences.

When you go to your endo, get a hormone check for DHEA, pregnenolone, and coritsol. Adding in Preg and DHEA (if needed to get to the upper normal level) can make all the difference in the world for memory, energy, and mood.

 

[brundel]

I did not realize that, I have not done a lot of research on HCG's. I would like to be able to drop it after we have another child, not really looking to take it long term.

It may be possible that I don't need the HCG which in turn will most likely not need an AI due to the low dose test C. From my reaserch at my dose of test C only need to worry about a large increase in E2 is when an HCG is introduced. However I will keep Formeron around and talk with the the endo about keeping some Arimidex on hand and just monitoring my E2 levels.

Might just try for awhile without the HCG and go from there, dunno yet.

125mg isnt a super high dose so you may be ok with no AI.
I would for sure have it on hand though.

With HCG youll want the AI for sure.

 

[thunder90]

Most of us on TRT end up dropping HCG because it ends up causing more problems than anything. Read up in the Anti-aging thread or poke around a bit on other sites for additional experiences.

When you go to your endo, get a hormone check for DHEA, pregnenolone, and coritsol. Adding in Preg and DHEA (if needed to get to the upper normal level) can make all the difference in the world for memory, energy, and mood.

Yes I have been doing a good bit of research on DHEA & pregnenolone lately and it is on my list to talk with the endo about. Dr. Crisler also recommends added these into a HRT protocol. The only downside to adding these is they see to raise E2 levels quite a bit which would require and AI (which I'm not against, I have a fear of gyno and MUCH rather be safe then sorry).

However, as I mentioned above i'm currently taking H-Drol for 6 weeks. I was hoping they would treat me with a base of 120mg of Test C for the next 6-7 weeks and then run labs after it has cleared my system. But I was thinking of running HCGenerate, Formeron, and Lean Xtreme after my H-drol cycle. These will most likely effect DHEA, pregnenolone, and coritsol so maybe I should just skip these since i'll be using TRT.

I have already purchased them and they seem to have great results for others so I was hoping to use them anyways. Sigh, maybe I should just wait to do anymore Test C injections until I have completed my Halodrol cycle and do a PCT (first ever cycle). Then begin on TRT.

125mg isnt a super high dose so you may be ok with no AI.
I would for sure have it on hand though.

With HCG youll want the AI for sure.

Thanks!

 

[brundel]

You should 100% continue the TRT no matter what. Here is why...
Testosterone is anabolic.
It plays a part in
libido
mood
sense of wellbeing
strength
anabolism
Erection
confidence
and alot more.
Under NO circumstance should you allow it to drop.

I know tons of guys run oral only cycles. This is a mistake.
Or look at it like this...aside from all those positives^^^ testosterone is THE primary steroid. Why would you take one steroid then let another one drop.
Its counter productive

Keep test in range or higher then proceed to run cycles or not by your own choice. Keep test levels up though.

 

[Blergs]

See the endo, and gyno shouldent be an issue if you are keeping eye on hormone levels.

 

[Blergs]

I LOVE hrt!

 

[FireRescue]

HCG can be highly unhealthy long term. I would use it sparingly.

I agree there seems to be a varied response to HCG for some HRT patients and while some seem to benefit from it while other do not With that said I would certainly not say it is an absolute for HRT. However, I'm am curious to hear your thoughts as to how it is unhealthy long term.

 

[thunder90]

You should 100% continue the TRT no matter what. Here is why...
Testosterone is anabolic.
It plays a part in
libido
mood
sense of wellbeing
strength
anabolism
Erection
confidence
and alot more.
Under NO circumstance should you allow it to drop.

I know tons of guys run oral only cycles. This is a mistake.
Or look at it like this...aside from all those positives^^^ testosterone is THE primary steroid. Why would you take one steroid then let another one drop.
Its counter productive

Keep test in range or higher then proceed to run cycles or not by your own choice. Keep test levels up though.

Thanks will do. With an overall test of 140 my test is almost non existent. Looking forward to see if a weekly injection of 120mg will get it to around 600-800 range that i'd like to see.

See the endo, and gyno shouldent be an issue if you are keeping eye on hormone levels.

I'm just worried about my ph (H-drol) messing up my lab values. I would rather not tell him on Monday that i'm currently on a PH, and I don't want the PH messing up with my labs. But ya, my family doc is totally willing to treat me with test just not going to help with E2 hence the need for the endo.

 

[brundel]

I agree there seems to be a varied response to HCG for some HRT patients and while some seem to benefit from it while other do not With that said I would certainly not say it is an absolute for HRT. However, I'm am curious to hear your thoughts as to how it is unhealthy long term.

Its unfortunate that people selling HCG have flooded the internet with BS trying to sell HCG diets and drops etc.
Lets just start with HCG is not native in males. It comes from women. UNless you have cancer of the balls.
It has been shown to cause more than 1 type of cancers in women. There have also been a number of reports in the medical literature describing the development of testicular cancer in young men taking hCG, and although a definite causative link has not been clearly established, there is legitimate cause for concern.

 

[sammpedd88]

Its unfortunate that people selling HCG have flooded the internet with BS trying to sell HCG diets and drops etc. Lets just start with HCG is not native in males. It comes from women. UNless you have cancer of the balls. It has been shown to cause more than 1 type of cancers in women. There have also been a number of reports in the medical literature describing the development of testicular cancer in young men taking hCG, and although a definite causative link has not been clearly established, there is legitimate cause for concern.[/QUOTE

I haven't heard about the link to cancer. I'm not doubting your comment one bit, but I think we can all agree that even though HCG works for some it's harder to control E2 levels. I haven't tried it and really don't have the desire to. I'm doing just fine with my T and AI.

 

[brundel]

Its unfortunate that people selling HCG have flooded the internet with BS trying to sell HCG diets and drops etc. Lets just start with HCG is not native in males. It comes from women. UNless you have cancer of the balls. It has been shown to cause more than 1 type of cancers in women. There have also been a number of reports in the medical literature describing the development of testicular cancer in young men taking hCG, and although a definite causative link has not been clearly established, there is legitimate cause for concern.[/QUOTE

I haven't heard about the link to cancer. I'm not doubting your comment one bit, but I think we can all agree that even though HCG works for some it's harder to control E2 levels. I haven't tried it and really don't have the desire to. I'm doing just fine with my T and AI.

I know of 2 guys who were given HCG and Clomid....Dr gave them Test...then every 4 months HCG and clomid. Weird. Makes no sense....anyways..
Both got pretty aggressive gyno during the clomid and HCG cycling.
These are guys at my old HRT DR. Fired him as soon as I heard he was doing this to people.

 

[sammpedd88]

Wow that's crazy man! Have you every included HCG in your protocol?

 

[brundel]

Wow that's crazy man! Have you every included HCG in your protocol?

I used hcg a bunch of times before i was on hrt.
Hcg can desensitize leydig cells so they become less responsive to luteinizing hormone which is bad.
Generally id use it with an ai while waiting for long estered aas to clear before starting pct.
So like 3 weeks leading into pct then stop amd sub clomid. Ultimatelt pct protocols stopped being effective and hrt was the only option.

 

[sammpedd88]

I used hcg a bunch of times before i was on hrt. Hcg can desensitize leydig cells so they become less responsive to luteinizing hormone which is bad. Generally id use it with an ai while waiting for long estered aas to clear before starting pct. So like 3 weeks leading into pct then stop amd sub clomid. Ultimatelt pct protocols stopped being effective and hrt was the only option.

Yeah the dr's office I go is an "integrative medicine" office. They only use HCG for weight loss. Not on TRT and they are very progressive in hormone replacement.

 

[thunder90]

The only reason I wanted to use HCG as an option is because it know it will keep my sperm count up while trying to have another child. I know that while on TRT it is possible to conceive but my chances are better on HCG. If you all feel that the risk is not worth it, I guess I should be thinking twice. It will be interested to see what the endo says.

Maybe just go with Test C and an AI. After a few months get a sperm count checked and then go from there. Oh, I just got in my HCgenerate I was planning on using during weeks 2-6 of my H-Drol cycle. While I can't afford the $60+ per month for that maybe it will help for a bit with shutdown while on TRT.

 

[sammpedd88]

The only reason I wanted to use HCG as an option is because it know it will keep my sperm count up while trying to have another child. I know that while on TRT it is possible to conceive but my chances are better on HCG. If you all feel that the risk is not worth it, I guess I should be thinking twice. It will be interested to see what the endo says. Maybe just go with Test C and an AI. After a few months get a sperm count checked and then go from there. Oh, I just got in my HCgenerate I was planning on using during weeks 2-6 of my H-Drol cycle. While I can't afford the $60+ per month for that maybe it will help for a bit with shutdown while on TRT.

Now trying to have another kid is a different story. If that were my case I would go on HCG to increase the odds but would probably discontinue after conception.

 

[kisaj]

Yes, no question. We weren't aware of that and you need to do anything in your power to help your chances.

 

[FireRescue]

HMG would be a better option than HCG. I think it would be challenging to find a doc to prescribe it though.