lowering hcg dose on trt help

[bswanny]

I've been putting this off and I shouldn't have as I wasn't sure what to ask. I'm on a trt dose of around 150mg a week and on 600iu of hcg twice a week. My doctor was familiar with hcg but after doing my own studying realized this dose is quite high. I've been running this dose of hcg for 6 months now. Was having estrogen problems and was to stupod to realize it was from the hcg. Question I have is if there is a way to safely step down the dose of hcg while keeping it's effectiveness. I know your testes can get de-sensitized from higher doses of hcg so I'm worried it's been too long at that dose to effectively step back the dosage while maintaining trt. I'm hoping I'm wrong. Is there a way to "cycle down" for lack of better words. Really appreciate any help. Thank you

 

[FireRescue]

NAC has been shown in studies to help with the possible desessitization of HCG.

I don't see any reason why you cannot just lower your dose, however I am not a doctor.

Many TRT patients with some docs were doing 500iu 2x/week so you are not that far off as some docs belive 1000iu/week is where the max benefit is. 250iu/300iu 2x/week seems pretty common with many docs these days.

Were you taking any type of AI? How high was your E2? Were you doing a single 150mg inject of T or was it split into two injects? Its possible your 150mg was also contributing to your higher E2 as well.

 

[kisaj]

It is common to lower hcg doses and a lot of people drop it entirely. Again, no doctor here, but there really is no reason that you could not just step down in dose.

 

[bswanny]

NAC has been shown in studies to help with the possible desessitization of HCG.

I don't see any reason why you cannot just lower your dose, however I am not a doctor.

Many TRT patients with some docs were doing 500iu 2x/week so you are not that far off as some docs belive 1000iu/week is where the max benefit is. 250iu/300iu 2x/week seems pretty common with many docs these days.

Were you taking any type of AI? How high was your E2? Were you doing a single 150mg inject of T or was it split into two injects? Its possible your 150mg was also contributing to your higher E2 as well.

Thank you. I'm on .5 arimidex daily. My estradiol came back around 15. I have slight gyno now though so I think I might have figured out what is happening is that I don't need .5 arimidex daily if I lower the hcg which I believe is what's elevating estrogen for just those two days and then once it clears my system my estrogen returns to that 15 estradiol range. I was just worried lowering the dose would prove ineffective at stimulating. I've been reading how everybody is doing 250iu twice a week so I thought 600iu was way high and might be what's contributing to my slight gyno problem as I have been on trt for over a year and never had gyno on it.

 

[kisaj]

15 is low. That is as low as I like to run or I start running into low e issues. Which test are you running ie range? There are two and one of them is skewed.

 

[bswanny]

15 is low. That is as low as I like to run or I start running into low e issues. Which test are you running ie range? There are two and one of them is skewed.

When you say which test, do you mean the ester? I'm running cyp. If you mean what are the levels at, I believe it was in the 1800 range. Yeah I don't want any lower estrogen but then I have slight gyno so clearly my levels are fluctuating at some point which is why I think it's the hcg. (not an expert but just trying to think out loud). So I am thinking about doing 500 iu injections next week and then the following week trying 400iu. Does that sound like too fast of a drop to maintain effectiveness or am I over thinking this? Thanks again for all the help.

 

[kisaj]

Sorry, I was referring to the e2 test. There is one that is 3-70 and one that tops out at mid 40s. For the life of me I can't recall the exact ranges.

 

[bswanny]

Sorry, I was referring to the e2 test. There is one that is 3-70 and one that tops out at mid 40s. For the life of me I can't recall the exact ranges.

Oh I know exactly what you are talking about. Yeah I don't know the difference either but it was using the 10-45 range. Not 100% but I believe that was the range. Also it was "estradiol" they tested not e2 which I believe has the different range. I think e2 is a little bit different and I don't have those numbers.

 

[FireRescue]

Personally I don't think the HCG has anything to do with your gyno, especially considering you are on .5 adex daily, which I think in general for someone on the same dosges/medications would be a fairly agressive dose. You E2 is not getting out of range enough to promote gyno in my opinion.

 

[bswanny]

Personally I don't think the HCG has anything to do with your gyno, especially considering you are on .5 adex daily, which I think in general for someone on the same dosges/medications would be a fairly agressive dose. You E2 is not getting out of range enough to promote gyno in my opinion.

I originally got some gyno when I went through Puberty and it recessed over the years prior to trt. Yeah I'm not sure on the exact culprit but I should also mention it's slight gyno and not as bad as some examples I've seen. I just have puffy nipples. Trying to figure out what's causing it.

 

[pmgamer18]

Hi bswanny,

Try doing your Test C shots 2x's / week at 75 mgs this lower dose more offten will help to keep E2 down and lower your HCG shot to 250 IU's and do this shot the day before your Test C shot 2x's / week. And one even better do the shot with a smaller needle subQ into your belly fat.

I've been putting this off and I shouldn't have as I wasn't sure what to ask. I'm on a trt dose of around 150mg a week and on 600iu of hcg twice a week. My doctor was familiar with hcg but after doing my own studying realized this dose is quite high. I've been running this dose of hcg for 6 months now. Was having estrogen problems and was to stupod to realize it was from the hcg. Question I have is if there is a way to safely step down the dose of hcg while keeping it's effectiveness. I know your testes can get de-sensitized from higher doses of hcg so I'm worried it's been too long at that dose to effectively step back the dosage while maintaining trt. I'm hoping I'm wrong. Is there a way to "cycle down" for lack of better words. Really appreciate any help. Thank you

 

[bswanny]

Hi bswanny,

Try doing your Test C shots 2x's / week at 75 mgs this lower dose more offten will help to keep E2 down and lower your HCG shot to 250 IU's and do this shot the day before your Test C shot 2x's / week. And one even better do the shot with a smaller needle subQ into your belly fat.

Well one, who says I have belly fat? I should have mentioned that I already am injecting Test 2x's a week but I do hcg 2 days in a row up to the day I do one of my test injections. Would the hcg be more beneficial to split the hcg before each test dose? I guess I've never given it much thought as the doc told me to do it two days in a row prior to one of the test injections

 

[kisaj]

Did he tell you why to take the HCG? This is one of the most annoying parts of the protocol that some docs just regurgitate. If they want you on it, then did they explain why and what the benefits and sides are? I doubt it because they usually don't know why they are prescribing it.

 

[pmgamer18]

You do the HCG shot at 250 IU's to keep your T levels up the day before your next shot that is if your testis work. Doing more HCG then your testis can handle will only go into Estradiol. Dr. Shippen and Dr. John C. have found doing Test C shots subQ into your belly fat works much better then IM. And shooting into belly fat helps to keep your T and E2 levels more even.

I have been doing this over a yr. now wish I started doing this 10 yrs ago when I read Dr. Shippen does this to his self.

Well one, who says I have belly fat? I should have mentioned that I already am injecting Test 2x's a week but I do hcg 2 days in a row up to the day I do one of my test injections. Would the hcg be more beneficial to split the hcg before each test dose? I guess I've never given it much thought as the doc told me to do it two days in a row prior to one of the test injections

 

[bswanny]

You do the HCG shot at 250 IU's to keep your T levels up the day before your next shot that is if your testis work. Doing more HCG then your testis can handle will only go into Estradiol. Dr. Shippen and Dr. John C. have found doing Test C shots subQ into your belly fat works much better then IM. And shooting into belly fat helps to keep your T and E2 levels more even.

I have been doing this over a yr. now wish I started doing this 10 yrs ago when I read Dr. Shippen does this to his self.

Interesting never read about sub q test shots. I'll have to research that. Although I do worry a little about injecting in my stomach as I don't have too much fat there. That's why I do my hcg on my hip.

 

[bswanny]

Did he tell you why to take the HCG? This is one of the most annoying parts of the protocol that some docs just regurgitate. If they want you on it, then did they explain why and what the benefits and sides are? I doubt it because they usually don't know why they are prescribing it.

She explained it slightly. My understanding it's more to maintain testicle size and lessen aches. Im sure there is much more but thats my basic understanding. It was my decision to go onto hcg. The only fault I have with my doc was that I went a year on trt and had low t still and it took me doing research on ai and quickly realized all my test was converting to estradiol. Thought that would have been an obvious one now knowing what I know, for a doc to pic up on. But I have a hard time on placing blame when I should of done more research.

 

[pmgamer18]

You can watch Dr. John do this to his self at this link.
http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?21497-Announcing-Release-of-the-Subcutaneous-Injection-Instruction-Video

Interesting never read about sub q test shots. I'll have to research that. Although I do worry a little about injecting in my stomach as I don't have too much fat there. That's why I do my hcg on my hip.