31 gauge?

[LMuscle]

Is it possible to inject test oil with a 31 gauge slin pin? I thought about drawing with a 21 gauge, removing the slin pin rubber stopper, injecting the oil into the syringe, replacing the stopper, and injecting that way. I know it would be nearly impossible to draw with a 31 gauge, but injecting should be ok right? For the past couple years I've been drawing with 21g and injecting with 25g IM. Thought I would try sub-q for a while.

 

[LMuscle]

Anyone use 31g?

 

[GeekPoop]

that's pretty tiny! I usually use 23g, but I guess it would work? depends how thick the oil is though.

 

[The Matrix]

29 gauge half inch works fine just takes a little longer
Shooting with a dull needle sucks some time..LOL

 

[LMuscle]

29 gauge half inch works fine just takes a little longer
Shooting with a dull needle sucks some time..LOL

My 31g are 5/8", that's fine for sub-q right? Couldn't I just pin anywhere with a needle that short?

Does my idea of taking the plunger out and filling the barrel, then replacing the plunger and injecting sound feasible? I seriously doubt I can draw with 31g. I originally bought the 31g .50iu syringes for b12 injections. Will injecting sub-q make much of a difference in how I absorb the test? I mean, is it going to be a noticeable difference in the way I feel? I'm only concerned if it might cause higher e2, which I'm VERY sensitive to in a bad way. Sometimes I wonder if I have some kind of serious underlying psychological issue because high e2 turns me into a bad person, it really brings out horribly negative/violent thoughts, and makes me super irritable/confrontational.

 

[CaptnCaveman]

Sometimes I wonder if I have some kind of serious underlying psychological issue because high e2 turns me into a bad person, it really brings out horribly negative/violent thoughts, and makes me super irritable/confrontational.

Completely normal sides of high e2. Just look at most women.. Lol

 

[LMuscle]

Haha

 

[LMuscle]

It worked! I removed the rubber plunger, dripped the oil into the slin pin barrel with another syringe, replaced the rubber plunger and injected sub-q! 31g no problem.

 

[Whacked]

Been doing it this was for years now

Only diff is I use a 29g

My 31g are 5/8", that's fine for sub-q right? Couldn't I just pin anywhere with a needle that short? Does my idea of taking the plunger out and filling the barrel, then replacing the plunger and injecting sound feasible?

 

[LMuscle]

Been doing it this was for years now

Only diff is I use a 29g

Awesome! Actually the needle is 5/16", like a bee stinger!

Is the absorption rate and conversion to e2 any different doing sub-q vs IM? I've heard there is a difference, but is it negligible?

 

[Whacked]

Im sure if you break it down very scientifically, there is a difference but a discernable one? I severely doubt it.

I switched my TRT from:
200 mg/week ONCE/week (I-M) to
100 mg/TWICE/week (I-M) to
about a year ago when I switched to SubQ (twice/week of 100 mg each)

I havent noticed a difference from ANY of these changes I-M to SubQ or even from Once to Twice/week

Awesome! Actually the needle is 5/16", like a bee stinger!

Is the absorption rate and conversion to e2 any different doing sub-q vs IM? I've heard there is a difference, but is it negligible?

 

[FireRescue]

FWIW - Chrisler and his colleagues believes shooting oil though a 31 will cause more tissue damage at the injeciton site that shooting subQ with slightly larger needles.

 

[LMuscle]

FWIW - Chrisler and his colleagues believes shooting oil though a 31 will cause more tissue damage at the injeciton site that shooting subQ with slightly larger needles.

I've gotta push HARD on the plunger to force the oil out, so I wouldn't doubt the pressurized oil streaming out could cause some degree of damage. No pain though, just a little lump that lasts a couple hours.

 

[pacificmd]

we use 31g exclusively

 

[pacificmd]

you can withdraw and inject with the same 31g syringe. It can take a minute or two, but as long as you are careful when pushing the needle through the rubber stopper, 100% painless

 

[LMuscle]

you can withdraw and inject with the same 31g syringe. It can take a minute or two, but as long as you are careful when pushing the needle through the rubber stopper, 100% painless

With the thickness of my Watson oil, I seriously don't think drawing with a 31g is possible. It's way thicker than my West-Ward oil, and it took a few minutes just to inject.

 

[pacificmd]

Ic. Not sure what those oils are. We use grape seed or cotton oil. No problem.

Dr Crisler's thought on tissue damage from smaller needles due to heightened velocity is one of the very few things I don't agree with.

Some theorize that there will be more aromatization subq due to aromatase activity in adipocytes. That will not happen. The testosterone is esterified to cyp or ent. Aromatase can't get to the testosterone until the ester is cleaved off; that happens in the blood stream. If anything, aromatization would possibly, ever so slightly, increase with IM administration due to faster absorption into the blood stream; leading to a higher t peak. Nothing to be even slightly concerned about.

2 subq injections per week at anti-aging doses should require very little if any AI in most cases.

 

[Whacked]

I disagree

Even Dr Crisler; an extremely well respected HRT MD - is an advocate of slin pins for Test subQ injects.

I have been doing this for years and love it

never use insulin needles to inject testosterone, thats for insulin or Human Growth Hormone, if any needs helps understanding email , I,m a nurse i specialize in hormones and take them myself, my dosage is 600 mg of test a week and 12 iu of growth per day, eli lilly and waston brand, my levels are around 1500 for test , feel great and all the other blood work is great , you need other stuff to get the results, remember guys 200 mg a week does nothing and levels in the 600 range are for like a mid 50 something man,

 

[LMuscle]

never use insulin needles to inject testosterone, thats for insulin or Human Growth Hormone, if any needs helps understanding email , I,m a nurse i specialize in hormones and take them myself, my dosage is 600 mg of test a week and 12 iu of growth per day, eli lilly and waston brand, my levels are around 1500 for test , feel great and all the other blood work is great , you need other stuff to get the results, remember guys 200 mg a week does nothing and levels in the 600 range are for like a mid 50 something man,

You're joking right? This is the anti aging forum, not the anabolics forum. If you're interested in posting cycle information, go to the anabolics forum and they'll be happy to assist you/dispose of your nonsense.

 

[FireRescue]

I disagree

Even Dr Crisler; an extremely well respected HRT MD - is an advocate of slin pins for Test subQ injects.

I have been doing this for years and love it

Actually, as mentioned earlier, Chrisler does not advocate using what most consider an insulin needle (29g/31g). He advocates a slightly larger needle as he says to minimize tissue damage caused by injecting an oil with such a small bore needle.

 

[Whacked]

You are correct

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98LOFQwUGA

Actually, as mentioned earlier, Chrisler does not advocate using what most consider an insulin needle (29g/31g). He advocates a slightly larger needle as he says to minimize tissue damage caused by injecting an oil with such a small bore needle.

 

[oldschoolbean]

Man iv been using a 21g. I need to try a smaller one if they will work?

 

[Whacked]

Dude. U have been using a 21 g to do sub Q injects? Screw that.

I use a 29 but as the link in my previous post relayed - a 25 to 26 g is what Dr Crisler uses/advises

Man iv been using a 21g. I need to try a smaller one if they will work?

 

[FireRescue]

Dude. U have been using a 21 g to do sub Q injects? Screw that.

I use a 29 but as the link in my previous post relayed - a 25 to 26 g is what Dr Crisler uses/advises

While I think Chrisler and his collegues are some of the leaders in the field of HRT, I will admit I also am not convinced if the idea tissue damage with a 29/31 is of that great of a concern.

I wonder if there is anything in addition to Dr. Chrisler's comments to support this? Or if it is anecedotal evidence from his practice?

 

[Whacked]

I tend to agree.

Been using 29s for a long time. Zero issues (well, at least that I am aware of. lol)

I will admit I also am not convinced if the idea tissue damage with a 29/31 is of that great of a concern. I wonder if there is anything in addition to Dr. Chrisler's comments to support this? Or if it is anecedotal evidence from his practice?

 

[LMuscle]

Might start sub-q injections with a 25g next week, too bad they're all 1". I'll just have to be careful and barely prick myself.

 

[BJE]

I have used 31g 5/16 insulin syringes to draw and inject for over a year now. I have had no problem whatsoever. To draw I just leave the vial and syringe upside down at about a 45 degree angle and come back in a few minutes and it is filled. I inject every other day. This frequent injection schedule has made Arimidex almost unnecessary. I used to take a lot of Arimidex when injecting once a week but now I take .25mg Arimidex maybe once every week or two if I start to notice any high E2 symptoms.

As far as 31g needles causing tissue trauma I will say prove it. It is complete nonsense. I have confronted Dr Crisler on the issue as well. His theory is that the small needle gives a high pressure nozzle effect. This couldn't be farther from the truth. If you don't believe me just draw some test cyp (I use Watson) into an insulin syringe with a 31g needle then shoot it into another syringe and see the high pressure effect. What you will see is the oil slowly drizzling out. You just can't force it through the needle at a high velocity. It will shoot out of a large gauge needle much faster than a small one. Some day I'm going to make a video of this to show my point and post it on allthingsmale. At any rate the tissue damage from poking in a 31g is less than a larger needle and I have had no problems from hundreds of HCG and test cyp injections.

 

[Whacked]

Great post man. Thanks for sharing

 

[LMuscle]

I have used 31g 5/16 insulin syringes to draw and inject for over a year now. I have had no problem whatsoever. To draw I just leave the vial and syringe upside down at about a 45 degree angle and come back in a few minutes and it is filled. I inject every other day. This frequent injection schedule has made Arimidex almost unnecessary. I used to take a lot of Arimidex when injecting once a week but now I take .25mg Arimidex maybe once every week or two if I start to notice any high E2 symptoms.

As far as 31g needles causing tissue trauma I will say prove it. It is complete nonsense. I have confronted Dr Crisler on the issue as well. His theory is that the small needle gives a high pressure nozzle effect. This couldn't be farther from the truth. If you don't believe me just draw some test cyp (I use Watson) into an insulin syringe with a 31g needle then shoot it into another syringe and see the high pressure effect. What you will see is the oil slowly drizzling out. You just can't force it through the needle at a high velocity. It will shoot out of a large gauge needle much faster than a small one. Some day I'm going to make a video of this to show my point and post it on allthingsmale. At any rate the tissue damage from poking in a 31g is less than a larger needle and I have had no problems from hundreds of HCG and test cyp injections.

How much do you inject EOD, and where do you inject? Sub-q? What do your labs look like by doing this?

 

[BJE]

How much do you inject EOD, and where do you inject? Sub-q? What do your labs look like by doing this?

I inject 150mg per week divided into EOD doses which works out to about .22ml per injection. I inject SQ into the butt fat which is totally painless most of the time. Labs done the morning of injection before injection resulted it total T of 897 and one done the morning after injection came in at 938. For me at least EOD injection gives a very stable testosterone level. A peak level tested while doing EOD at 200mg per week gave the result 1269 which is why we lowered my dose from 200 to 150 per week. I also inject 250IU HCG EOD.

Since on this forum discussion of steroid cycles is not forbidden I will add that I am currently ”supplementing” my TRT dose with extra test cyp that I have accumulated over the past year and a half. I'm on my third week and plan to do it for 10-12 weeks.

Since being on test cyp TRT the past year and a half I have gained twenty pounds while only increasing body fat slightly, maybe a percent or two.

 

[FireRescue]

I inject 150mg per week divided into EOD doses which works out to about .22ml per injection. I inject SQ into the butt fat which is totally painless most of the time. Labs done the morning of injection before injection resulted it total T of 897 and one done the morning after injection came in at 938. For me at least EOD injection gives a very stable testosterone level. A peak level tested while doing EOD at 200mg per week gave the result 1269 which is why we lowered my dose from 200 to 150 per week. I also inject 250IU HCG EOD.

Since on this forum discussion of steroid cycles is not forbidden I will add that I am currently ”supplementing” my TRT dose with extra test cyp that I have accumulated over the past year and a half. I'm on my third week and plan to do it for 10-12 weeks.

Since being on test cyp TRT the past year and a half I have gained twenty pounds while only increasing body fat slightly, maybe a percent or two.

Have you ever done HRT without HCG? On this forum HCG gets a pretty bad rap. I was just curious to hear your experiences with it?

 

[BJE]

Have you ever done HRT without HCG? On this forum HCG gets a pretty bad rap. I was just curious to hear your experiences with it?

I did about two years on testosterone cream which did basically nothing for me. Despite an ever increasing dose I ended up with a lower T level than I had naturally before I started and shrunken testicles. I then tried HCG mono therapy which got my balls back up to size, perhaps a bit larger than before and got my T to mid range, but I didn't feel well on it. I added back in the test cream and felt better but then switched to test cyp injections. I used HCG from the start of my injections. I've been a few months without it but I prefer to use it. Maybe it's just psychological. I would not say that HCG has had any detrimental effect. I do t know why it would get a bad rap. Perhaps guys aren't getting the real thing or something. The best move I made was to switch to injections then to every other day SQ. I used to have anxiety real bad at certain times of the week and now I rarely have anxiety.

 

[Whacked]

So did you cease the HCG?

 

[BJE]

So did you cease the HCG?

Sorry for the slow reply. I still use HCG. 250IU every other day.

 

[steam]

Sorry for the slow reply. I still use HCG. 250IU every other day.

What's the point of your EOD regimen? I know people split doses to say once every 3-4 days to have it twice a week but EOD seems neither here nor there.

 

[BJE]

What's the point of your EOD regimen? I know people split doses to say once every 3-4 days to have it twice a week but EOD seems neither here nor there.

HCG has a fairly short half life so a more frequent dosing schedule should provide a more consistent testosterone level. However, I inject testosterone every other day sub Q as well, so I just do my HCG on the same day. If I did my test every three or four days then I'd do the same with HCG for convenience in remembering when to inject.

 

[pacificmd]

Our protocol also has the t and hcg shot on the same day. Actually, we draw both t and hcg into the same 25 g syringe, then replace needle with 30g and then inject once. My patients do this twice/ week.
Admin Edit: Do not advertise

 

[BJE]

Our protocol also has the t and hcg shot on the same day. Actually, we draw both t and hcg into the same 25 g syringe, then replace needle with 30g and then inject once. My patients do this twice/ week.

How do you avoid cross contamination when drawing with the same syringe? It seems like you would inject a mixture of both when pushing air or overage back into the vial.

Also, as far as schedule goes I doubt there is much difference in EOD, E3D, or twice a week.

 

[pacificmd]

Swipe both bottles with alcohol before and after. I don't worry too much about getting a few micrograms of t into the hcg bottle. If you know of a reason I should change my protocol, I'd be happy to learn.

Agreed about the scheduling. I do believe 1/week is too infrequent though. Eod is fine, but most people prefer to keep the injections to a minimum. If my patient wants to dose every day, that's fine with me as well. If they insist on doing 1/week, no big deal IMO either. But no less than 1/week.

 

[googoots]

This is a great thread...I never once thought you could pin SQ with test. So basically any where on the body you have adipose tissue is fair game?

 

[BJE]

I inject into the butt fat.

 

[googoots]

Ok...Ill try that first...I was thinking abdomen since its directly in front of you.

 

[BJE]

For me the abdomen hurt more and bruised easily.

 

[Whacked]

I do not do the belly or flanks

I use the small muscle groups and "try" to push the needle into the skin as far as I can hoping I am hitting muscle. No clue if I am. Not sure it matters.

Bi's, Tri's, chest, delts, quads (especially outter)

I push the pin as far as it will go until the skin "dimples" then I inject

 

[BJE]

I doubt that hitting a muscle is an improvement over just injecting into fat.

 

[googoots]

I personally would be nervous doing it that way. Would hate to have the needle break off. I hear it's pretty painful digging them out lol

 

[googoots]

Just used a 30g slin pin in my abdomen and and ill be damned if I do IM ever again.

 

[Whacked]

Welcome to the slin-pin brotherhood manggg

 

[BJE]

Googoots, of course the reason for injecting sq is to make it easy to inject frequently. How often do you plan to inject?

 

[googoots]

Googoots, of course the reason for injecting sq is to make it easy to inject frequently. How often do you plan to inject?

Thursday evening and Monday morning so every 3.5