If you were me....

neothecat

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So, I've posted before about my symptoms (performance problems, anxiety, fatigue, etc), and I was hoping to get some feedback.

I have a urologist willing to let me try TRT. When I last tested a month ago total T was 620-650 (normal-ish), and my free T was low-normal 14.2 pg/mL (range 9.3-26.5). My SHBG is high-ish 43.4 (range 16.5-55.9 nmol/L CB) but E2 is normal 26.9 (range 6.9-42.6)

If you guys were at 14.2 pg/mL Free T, would you guys do TRT to lower SHBG and raise free T? If all else fails, I will probably end up trying it.


Somethings I'm trying first:

For the performance issues, I'm really taking a stab at quitting watching porn entirely (following yourbrainonporn's advice). And I ordered Avena Sativa Organic Extract 20:1 Green Oat Powder to see if I can increase free T that way by lowering SHBG.
 
LMuscle

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You're not a candidate for TRT even though your urologist agrees to it. Go see an endocrinologist and get more blood panels. Be sure to have your prolactin level checked, thyroid, adrenals etc. TRT is a last resort, your urologist sounds like a quack.
 

neothecat

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I recently had a full thyroid panel done at stop the thyroid madness. At this point, I don't know what else to do, I've been turned away by endocrinologists, MDs, urologists. I think I might have a pituitary issue, which would explain my symptoms (ACTH issue, GH deficiency, or maybe just a pituitary tumor). I ordered a 24 hr cortisol/DHEA test as well, and I'm just waiting on it to arrive.

My full labs:

Testosterone, Serum 620 348-1197 ng/dL CB
Free T 14.6 (ref range 8.9-26.9)
LH 3.6 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL CB
FSH 1.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL CB
Estradiol 26.9 7.6-42.6 pg/mL CB
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 43.4 16.5-55.9 nmol/L CB
Test Name Flag Result Ref Range Units Graph Info
T4,Free(Direct) 1.62 0.82-1.77 ng/dL
Test Name Flag Result Ref Range Units Graph Info
TSH 3.020 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL
Test Name Flag Result Ref Range Units Graph Info
Thyroglobulin, Antibody <1.0 0.0-0.9 IU/mL
Test Name Flag Result Ref Range Units Graph Info
Reverse T3 21.9 9.2-24.1 ng/dL
Test Name Flag Result Ref Range Units Graph Info
Thyroid Peroxidase 13 0-34 IU/mL
Test Name Flag Result Ref Range Units Graph Info
Triiodothyronine(T3),Free 3.6 2.0-4.4 pg/mL
Also my LDL (bad) cholesterol came back high.

The low FSH is still a big concern of mine. I guess I'm going to request an MRI eventually.
 
The Matrix

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You're not a candidate for TRT even though your urologist agrees to it. Go see an endocrinologist and get more blood panels. Be sure to have your prolactin level checked, thyroid, adrenals etc. TRT is a last resort, your urologist sounds like a quack.
Find out why SHBG is elevated could be environmental exposure


The MRI would be my first suggestion to get tested by your doctor.


Please use search function to looking into SHBG levels in reference to post I have made over past 3-4 years
 
LMuscle

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Definitely get an MRI if your prolactin comes back high, to rule out a prolactinoma. What do you mean you've been rejected by endocrinologists? Were you given a referral by a MD?
 

neothecat

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Meaning they told me I was fine. I listed all of my symptoms, they either told me it was "in my head", that I just have "anxiety", and they did not want to investigate further. My prolactin came back normal before; however, my FSH (a pituitary hormone), came back low, and since pituitary disorders can cause individual hormone deficiencies, it seems like I might need to pursue that possibility.

The Matrix

I (and I know a lot of other people), certainly appreciate your willingness to provide feedback and knowledge; however. I have done a lot of research already, including reading your past posts and using the search feature on the forums, and the answer still isn't clear to me.

I get a lot of differing information on SHBG from different people. Check this, no check that, this lowers SHBG, no it doesn't THIS does. What additional info can I provide to help you (and everyone else) give feedback? My thyroid panel included a liver panel, which came back as normal.
 

neothecat

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Also, I have had my prolactin tested a year ago, and it came back normal. low FSH and high SHBG/bad cholesterol are my only markers as to a potential problem currently. LDL cholesteral is 106 (ref range 0-99)
 
B5150

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Everything is normal invluding your SHGB. They all fluctuate throughout the day and you could draw blood everyb8 hours and have different values.

See a psychologist or therapies for you hypochondria and OCD.

BTW - you don't "just get an MRI" cause you want one and there is absolutely no reason why one would be prescribed.
 
thegodfather

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Definitely get an MRI if your prolactin comes back high, to rule out a prolactinoma. What do you mean you've been rejected by endocrinologists? Were you given a referral by a MD?
X2.
 
drewsicle3210

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Everything is normal invluding your SHGB. They all fluctuate throughout the day and you could draw blood everyb8 hours and have different values.

See a psychologist or therapies for you hypochondria and OCD.

BTW - you don't "just get an MRI" cause you want one and there is absolutely no reason why one would be prescribed.
I, as an Army Medic, have to deal with people coming in and 'demanding' an Xray, bone scan, or MRI because they 'think' or the internet told them they have an abnormality.
We see right through it. And MRI's are only indicated by specific rules, positive Xray findings and/or failure with conservative treatment, respectively. There are deviations, but generally, people that ask for it don't need it. They need to take it easy, stop googling, and see a therapist.

Just my educated response.

"Take Motrin and drink water"

- Drill Sergeants everywhere
 

neothecat

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I, as an Army Medic, have to deal with people coming in and 'demanding' an Xray, bone scan, or MRI because they 'think' or the internet told them they have an abnormality.
We see right through it. And MRI's are only indicated by specific rules, positive Xray findings and/or failure with conservative treatment, respectively. There are deviations, but generally, people that ask for it don't need it. They need to take it easy, stop googling, and see a therapist.

Just my educated response.

"Take Motrin and drink water"

- Drill Sergeants everywhere

A specific rule would include a deficiency in a hormone produced by the pituitary gland, and an MRI is one of the only ways to see if there is a hormone secreting tumor or another mass causing a deficiency. Endocrinology web-sites clearly list the symptoms of pituitary disorders and suggest MRIs if a pituitary hormone is deficient or high. Obviously, "Googling" and reading information on the internet is the best way to stay informed on the latest advances in testing, diagnosing, or treating physical/psychological issues. Pituitary issues can look like a lot of different issues and have a lot of different symptoms, including everything that I listed.
Being highly invested in my personal health and searching for an answer to my symptoms does not make me a hypochondriac. Also, by "seeing right through it" and dismissing patients no doubt left them feeling frustrated, hopeless, and did nothing for their symptoms.
 
B5150

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No. The internet is not the best place for anything. Especially Internet forums full of well meaning bros who get the same information from the same place- the internet.

Eat well, exercise well, sleep well and surround yourself with well people - and talk to a qualified professional in person about your emotional/psychological symptoms.

IMHO and IME the brain is a powerful tool for good health or ill health. You already believe your issue is hormonal regardless and you will find reinforcement of these negative thoughts with affirmation of them here and on the internet.

Good luck!

"Transform your spirit by the renewing of your mind".
 
drewsicle3210

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Get evaluated by a professional. They attend school for a reason. If everyone diagnosed and treated themselves via the internet, the pharmaceutical companies would be rich!! (Wait...what??!?!)

Good luck brother
 
LMuscle

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It's unreal how difficult it is to find an endo who specializes in hormone replacement. Mine specializes in diabetes, and hardly knows sh-t about modern TRT practices. He diagnosed me with primary hypogonadism, and I decided my TRT protocol. Better than nothing I guess. Glad I'm on injections though, Androgel and Testim make me super violent. Aggressive with violent/hateful thoughts running through my head constantly. And that's with the recommended dose!
 

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It's unreal how difficult it is to find an endo who specializes in hormone replacement. Mine specializes in diabetes, and hardly knows sh-t about modern TRT practices. He diagnosed me with primary hypogonadism, and I decided my TRT protocol. Better than nothing I guess. Glad I'm on injections though, Androgel and Testim make me super violent. Aggressive with violent/hateful thoughts running through my head constantly. And that's with the recommended dose!
Damn androgel and testim did that? I would have though injections would have more of this affect
 
B5150

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Damn androgel and testim did that? I would have though injections would have more of this affect
No they don't. Underlying and underlying issues manifest themselves where and when they can. Physiologic levels of testosterone do not cause this response in otherwise emotionally and psychological stable individuals. It actually elevates those symptoms and behaviors.
 
LMuscle

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No they don't. Underlying and underlying issues manifest themselves where and when they can. Physiologic levels of testosterone do not cause this response in otherwise emotionally and psychological stable individuals. It actually elevates those symptoms and behaviors.
One application to my shoulders and thighs raises my total test to around 1400+ and sends e2 through the roof pretty quickly. It also gives me a better libido from the DHT conversion. But the way it throws everything out of balance so quickly is what causes my aggressiveness and anger. I'm kind of an over-absorber compared to others. The injections are waaaay more stable for me.


I didn't get that emotionally unstable on 1000mg of test-e/week and an e2 level of 136!
 
thegodfather

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It's unreal how difficult it is to find an endo who specializes in hormone replacement. Mine specializes in diabetes, and hardly knows sh-t about modern TRT practices. He diagnosed me with primary hypogonadism, and I decided my TRT protocol. Better than nothing I guess. Glad I'm on injections though, Androgel and Testim make me super violent. Aggressive with violent/hateful thoughts running through my head constantly. And that's with the recommended dose!
Possibly from elevated DHT levels?? DHT is supposedly more responsible for aggressive type behaviors than testosterone is.
 
The Matrix

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Given benefit of the doubt...

Suggest ferritin and 4 point cortisol levels since your TSH is higher then normally see there may be lack of thyroid at the cellular levels.
I just had a case of this last week from a Doctor. TSH was around 3 thyroid was perfect. Adrenals where not. When addressing the adrenals TSH dropped and thyroid levels stayed the same which proved secondary hypothyroidism due to adrenal insufficiency. There was no TPO or TGAB present so hashimotios was ruled out.
Also a neuroadrenal basic profile from neuroscience would be my first suggestion to see just how much off kilter the brain chemistry is which may reflect symptoms. Again you still need to look at underlying cause which means looking at case history, and symptoms.
 

neothecat

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Given benefit of the doubt...

Suggest ferritin and 4 point cortisol levels since your TSH is higher then normally see there may be lack of thyroid at the cellular levels.
I just had a case of this last week from a Doctor. TSH was around 3 thyroid was perfect. Adrenals where not. When addressing the adrenals TSH dropped and thyroid levels stayed the same which proved secondary hypothyroidism due to adrenal insufficiency. There was no TPO or TGAB present so hashimotios was ruled out.
Also a neuroadrenal basic profile from neuroscience would be my first suggestion to see just how much off kilter the brain chemistry is which may reflect symptoms. Again you still need to look at underlying cause which means looking at case history, and symptoms.
Thank you very much for that info. I actually just received the cortisol saliva/DHEA test from STTM in the mail yesterday. I will submit it and post the results, and I will check into the neuroadrenal basic profile and ferritin test.
 

pacificmd

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i'd test FSH again. Lab tests are nowhere near perfect.
I'd also test prolactin, LH and GnRH

Also, I disagree with the above poster who said you're not a candidate for TRT.
After ruling out other more serious possible causes for your symptoms, I'd absolutely give TRT a try. Looking at your Total T, Free T and SHBG, I'm pretty sure your bioavailable T is low.
 
LMuscle

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Possibly from elevated DHT levels?? DHT is supposedly more responsible for aggressive type behaviors than testosterone is.
I'm taking Mestebol now to increase DHT, and so far it's made me very calm, laid back yet very assertive. None of the ridiculous out of the blue rage I had with Androgel. Hopefully I can get DHT labs again this month or next.
 
thegodfather

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I'm taking Mestebol now to increase DHT, and so far it's made me very calm, laid back yet very assertive. None of the ridiculous out of the blue rage I had with Androgel. Hopefully I can get DHT labs again this month or next.
That's cool. I go for labs In a couple weeks and will get a comprehensive hormone panel done to see where some of my levels are such as DHT and DHEA.
 

neothecat

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i'd test FSH again. Lab tests are nowhere near perfect.
I'd also test prolactin, LH and GnRH

Also, I disagree with the above poster who said you're not a candidate for TRT.
After ruling out other more serious possible causes for your symptoms, I'd absolutely give TRT a try. Looking at your Total T, Free T and SHBG, I'm pretty sure your bioavailable T is low.

My LH was 3.6 (range 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL). Is GnRH test something I have to get from an endo? I haven't seen any tests for GnRH on privatemdlabs,etc.
 

neothecat

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My latest labs (taken on Monday):

Total T looks ok, but free T is STILL low, FSH is low, estrogen is higher. I actually felt sensitivity/pain in my nipples on Monday, which is why I went and ran these tests, no morning wood, etc. If I can't find an answer soon, I'm seriously contemplating doing TRT to get my free T up or taking something to bring the estrogen down. I'm still waiting on the cortisol test.

Testosterone, Serum
Testosterone, Serum 692 348-1197 ng/dL CB
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 3.5 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL CB
1 of 2
FSH, Serum
FSH 1.4 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL CB
Prolactin
Prolactin 11.0 4.0-15.2 ng/mL CB
Estradiol
Estradiol 36.7 7.6-42.6 pg/mL CB
Roche ECLIA methodology
Testosterone, Free, Direct
Free Testosterone(Direct) 11.9 9.3-26.5 pg/mL BN
Iron and TIBC
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 275 250-450 ug/dL CB
UIBC 176 150-375 ug/dL CB
Iron, Serum 99 40-155 ug/dL CB
Iron Saturation 36 15-55 % CB
Ferritin, Serum
Ferritin, Serum 128 30-400 ng/mL CB
 

dhickey

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My latest labs (taken on Monday):

Total T looks ok, but free T is STILL low, FSH is low, estrogen is higher. I actually felt sensitivity/pain in my nipples on Monday, which is why I went and ran these tests, no morning wood, etc. If I can't find an answer soon, I'm seriously contemplating doing TRT to get my free T up or taking something to bring the estrogen down. I'm still waiting on the cortisol test.

Testosterone, Serum
Testosterone, Serum 692 348-1197 ng/dL CB
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 3.5 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL CB
1 of 2
FSH, Serum
FSH 1.4 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL CB
Prolactin
Prolactin 11.0 4.0-15.2 ng/mL CB
Estradiol
Estradiol 36.7 7.6-42.6 pg/mL CB
Roche ECLIA methodology
Testosterone, Free, Direct
Free Testosterone(Direct) 11.9 9.3-26.5 pg/mL BN
Jumping into TRT would be a huge mistake. Be smart and address the obvious issues. Reverse T3 and high SHBG are red flags. If you address those and bring E2 down a bit, your T levels will be just fine.

Have you tested for DHEA-S? If that's low, it should be easy to address and might provide a modest improvement.

You can try some "natural" things to bring E2 down a bit. Boron, DIM and Calcium d-Glucarate might be worth a shot. They all provide other benefits as well. Some report that bringing E2 down lowered SHBG as well. My SHBG has always been low, so I didn't really see that trend.
 

pacificmd

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My latest labs (taken on Monday):

Total T looks ok, but free T is STILL low, FSH is low, estrogen is higher. I actually felt sensitivity/pain in my nipples on Monday, which is why I went and ran these tests, no morning wood, etc. If I can't find an answer soon, I'm seriously contemplating doing TRT to get my free T up or taking something to bring the estrogen down. I'm still waiting on the cortisol test.

Testosterone, Serum
Testosterone, Serum 692 348-1197 ng/dL CB
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 3.5 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL CB
1 of 2
FSH, Serum
FSH 1.4 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL CB
Prolactin
Prolactin 11.0 4.0-15.2 ng/mL CB
Estradiol
Estradiol 36.7 7.6-42.6 pg/mL CB
Roche ECLIA methodology
Testosterone, Free, Direct
Free Testosterone(Direct) 11.9 9.3-26.5 pg/mL BN
Iron and TIBC
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 275 250-450 ug/dL CB
UIBC 176 150-375 ug/dL CB
Iron, Serum 99 40-155 ug/dL CB
Iron Saturation 36 15-55 % CB
Ferritin, Serum
Ferritin, Serum 128 30-400 ng/mL CB
Not sure why people think SHBG, reverse T3 or estradiol are the main issues here. Yes, lowering your estradiol may lower your SHBG. Of course that would help. Your reverse t3 is a little higher than normal, however the rest of your thyroid work up pushes that way down the priority list.

I'm most concerned about your low FSH and lowish LH. Like most cases of secondary hypogonadism, your case is not simple. Your total testosterone levels are fine. I would expect that number to be lower with your gonadotropin levels. As before stated, I would retest FSH and LH. I'd also test GnRH while I'm at it. GnRH stimulates the pituitary to release LH and FSH. An abnormal value may prove useful in solving your case.

If your LH, FSH come back low again. I'd feel more comfortable with the working diagnosis.

Who had the idea to screen you for hemochromatosis? I would continue to visit that doctor. Screening for that leads me to believe that doctor knows what he/she is doing.

I do know what management steps I'd take if you were my patient. However, that would be skating on thin ice.

Where do you live? I would see you if you live in my area.

Best,
pacificmd
 

neothecat

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Not sure why people think SHBG, reverse T3 or estradiol are the main issues here. Yes, lowering your estradiol may lower your SHBG. Of course that would help. Your reverse t3 is a little higher than normal, however the rest of your thyroid work up pushes that way down the priority list.

I'm most concerned about your low FSH and lowish LH. Like most cases of secondary hypogonadism, your case is not simple. Your total testosterone levels are fine. I would expect that number to be lower with your gonadotropin levels. As before stated, I would retest FSH and LH. I'd also test GnRH while I'm at it. GnRH stimulates the pituitary to release LH and FSH. An abnormal value may prove useful in solving your case.

If your LH, FSH come back low again. I'd feel more comfortable with the working diagnosis.

Who had the idea to screen you for hemochromatosis? I would continue to visit that doctor. Screening for that leads me to believe that doctor knows what he/she is doing.

I do know what management steps I'd take if you were my patient. However, that would be skating on thin ice.

Where do you live? I would see you if you live in my area.

Best,
pacificmd
pacificmd

A few questions:

"I'm most concerned about your low FSH and lowish LH. Like most cases of secondary hypogonadism, your case is not simple. Your total testosterone levels are fine. I would expect that number to be lower with your gonadotropin levels. As before stated, I would retest FSH and LH."

That entire list of labs (including FSH/LH) was just taken on Monday. I decided to get the ferritin/TIBC tests because they are sometimes linked to thyroid issues (its a suggested lab on STTM). TheMatrix also suggested it. My FSH has been low the last 2 times I tested it (first time 1.2, this last time 1.4). I was approaching this from the perspective that my LH is fine and it is isolated low FSH, but of course I could be wrong. I thought that LH would be "lower" if it felt that enough testosterone was being produced. You mentioned "hypogonadism", which kind of came as a shock to me as I wouldn't have thought that was a possibility given my total T levels. It seems to me that having decent serum T levels doesn't really do me much good if most of it is "bound" and not free.

I am in Columbus, OH.

"I do know what management steps I'd take if you were my patient. However, that would be skating on thin ice. "

Can you please explain what steps you would take?


Thanks,

Ben
 

Thunder13

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neo did you get anything addressed yet? My LH is the same number as yours (3.6) Mine was at Quest Labs. Is this still regarded as "LOW"? My FSH was decent at 7.0 =Range is 1.6-8.0
Pacific MD,

A few questions:

"I'm most concerned about your low FSH and lowish LH. Like most cases of secondary hypogonadism, your case is not simple. Your total testosterone levels are fine. I would expect that number to be lower with your gonadotropin levels. As before stated, I would retest FSH and LH."

That entire list of labs (including FSH/LH) was just taken on Monday. I decided to get the ferritin/TIBC tests because they are sometimes linked to thyroid issues (its a suggested lab on STTM). TheMatrix also suggested it. My FSH has been low the last 2 times I tested it (first time 1.2, this last time 1.4). I was approaching this from the perspective that my LH is fine and it is isolated low FSH, but of course I could be wrong. I thought that LH would be "lower" if it felt that enough testosterone was being produced. You mentioned "hypogonadism", which kind of came as a shock to me as I wouldn't have thought that was a possibility given my total T levels. It seems to me that having decent serum T levels doesn't really do me much good if most of it is "bound" and not free.

I am in Columbus, OH.

"I do know what management steps I'd take if you were my patient. However, that would be skating on thin ice. "

Can you please explain what steps you would take?


Thanks,

Ben
 

neothecat

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Thunder13

I have not gotten anything addressed yet. I just sent off my saliva cortisol/DHEA test, so I'm going to have to wait till it gets back. My free T is still low and my FSH is still off the scale low. Still rare morning wood, low energy, anxiety, low motivation, very low libido.
 

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Ok Neo Thanks.... I need to do that same saliva test myself... can You tell me where you ordered yours from or send me a link ? I hope you get some answers and on your way to positive results.
Thunder13

I have not gotten anything addressed yet. I just sent off my saliva cortisol/DHEA test, so I'm going to have to wait till it gets back. My free T is still low and my FSH is still off the scale low. Still rare morning wood, low energy, anxiety, low motivation, very low libido.
 

neothecat

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My cortisol/DHEAS levels:

Test Name Result Units Range
DHEAS (saliva) 13.1 ng/mL 2-23 (Age Dependent)
Cortisol (saliva) 6.9 ng/mL 3.7-9.5 (morning)
Cortisol (saliva) 1.7 ng/mL 1.2-3.0 (noon)
Cortisol (saliva) 1.2 ng/mL 0.6-1.9 (evening)
Cortisol (saliva) 0.8 ng/mL 0.4-1.0 (night)



Thoughts? At this point it appears my serum testosterone, DHEA, cortisol levels are normal, but I have higher SHBG and low-ish free T and low FSH.
 

dhickey

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It might be a good idea to raise dhea and see if that improves T.
 

neothecat

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So friends, after my numerous tests. It is basically down to 3 problem indicators for me:

FSH 1.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol 36.7 7.6-42.6 pg/mL CB
Free Testosterone(Direct) 11.9 9.3-26.5 pg/mL BN

My low free T, my higher estriadol, and my low FSH have been consistent throughout this mess. I'm going to try sublingual DHEA and pregnalone. For E2, how bad is 36.7 pg/mL? What should my target be? How hard will it be to find a doc to prescribe Arimidex?
 

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From my own experience and what I have researched, middle normal DHEA is too low. As far as e2, on that scale I sit at a 15.9 and feel great. 36 would have me a wreck.
 

neothecat

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From my own experience and what I have researched, middle normal DHEA is too low. As far as e2, on that scale I sit at a 15.9 and feel great. 36 would have me a wreck.
Do you use arimidex? How hard is to get it? Would normal urologists know about it or do I need to see an anti aging clinic?
 

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I do not use it. I was able to get my e2 into very manageable low-mid 20s by simply switching to a 60mg e3.5d protocol awhile back. I feel good at that level, but then wanted to shred up. I use Formeron and that immediately dropped my e2 numbers by about 10 points and cut me up. I love the stuff.
 
fame126

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what would be the best way to "self diagnose" possible high estrogen, other than getting bloods? i dont really want to get bloods because it's kind of a hassle. i would have to call drs office request a blood work, get an authorization, wait, then get bloods drawn. the only symptom i have are sensitive nipples that hurt when bumped accidently. any suggestions?
 
napalm

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what would be the best way to "self diagnose" possible high estrogen, other than getting bloods? i dont really want to get bloods because it's kind of a hassle. i would have to call drs office request a blood work, get an authorization, wait, then get bloods drawn. the only symptom i have are sensitive nipples that hurt when bumped accidently. any suggestions?
-no morning wood
-no libido
-Water retention
-sensitive nips
-mood swings
 

kisaj

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Not trying to be rude, but are you the one that was playing with his nipples? I have never heard of this, but it seems to be more common around here with guys thinking that they have e2 issues and start messing with their nips- causing an issue.

If that isn't you, nevermind. But, don't start doing it. LOL
 
fame126

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Not trying to be rude, but are you the one that was playing with his nipples? I have never heard of this, but it seems to be more common around here with guys thinking that they have e2 issues and start messing with their nips- causing an issue. If that isn't you, nevermind. But, don't start doing it. LOL
.

haha na man not me i know not to mess with sensitive nips. i just know cause at work ill accidentally bump them and daaammmnnn they hurt more than normal.
 

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kisaj what is a "60mg e3.5d protocol "? Also are you still using formeron? Any sides of formeron?
 

kisaj

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I inject 60mg or approx .3ml of test cyp every 3.5 days. Usually Monday and Thurs. Sometimes I miss Monday and make up on Tuesday, then push the Thur shot out to Fri.

I found that I have this so balanced that I don't even notice if I miss a couple days. Recently this happened because of some work trips and I couldn't inject until Wed and I didn't even notice. I attribute this to getting my pregnenolone and dhea in the upper levels.
 

neothecat

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kisaj I'm not on TRT. Given that my serum testosterone is in the high 600s, but I have low free T and higher estrogen. Do you think formeron would be a good option for me? Would I need to cycle it, or just take it every day? Also, would I need to worry about physically touching my gf, since its topical and lowers E2?
 

kisaj

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Ah, I thought you were on TRT. Well, I am not a doc, but I do know and many others do as well, how well Formeron works. I'd say that you have nothing to lose by trying. I would not worry about transmission because it dries extremely fast and you could do it somewhere that it would not happen. I choose my thigh, let it dry for about 30 sec and then throw my pants on. Crisis averted.
 

neothecat

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kisaj How long have you been on Formeron? Also, how long does one bottle last you
 

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