On the wagon
- 11-08-2013, 09:04 PM
On the wagon
Ok my dudes.
I finally got tired of trying to use everything but T to get me right. Tried Clomid, HCG, arimidex in a lot of different combinations. Got fed up and asked doc to prescribe me 200 mg/week T Cyp and HCG at 500 IUs EOD.
He wanted to teach me how to inject so he bring in what looked like a harpoon and a bottle of T Enan (that's all he had on hand). The needle ended up being a 21 g 1.5".
Took it in the quad. Took 200 mg. All went well. Felt like I was sedated by Lortabs a couple hours later, was talkative, felt confident. Placebo maybe.
Next two days have been kinda rough haven't felt right. Depressed, and anxious.
Will be taking my HCG tonight. I was prescribed 500 IUs EOD but I think I will drop it to 250 2x week
I also got a hold of some 29 gauge .5 inch needles, some 25 g 1 inch, and some 31 g .5 inch.
Starting on Sunday I am seriously considering starting sub q with the 29g, as well as starting at 75 mg per shot and working my way up or down accordingly.
I'm thinking I don't need 200 mg a week to reach healthy levels (have been measured at 240, 244, and 250 ng/dl in the 5 months pre TRT) I don't want to overshoot and deal with high E and gyno.
Also I think the big 200 mg dose had me on a slight 3 day roller coaster hormonally.
So this is what I'm thinking for my initial protocol:
SUN PM- 75 mg T Cyp
TU PM- 250 IUs HCG
TH AM- 75 mg T Cyp
SAT AM- 250 IUs HCG
What say you fine gentlemen? Advice?
- 11-08-2013, 09:30 PM
If a person has messed up adrenals (70% of americans have some degree of) TRT may back fire making a person worse. You need to look at the underlying pathology of what caused it in the first place. A lot of guys who ventured on TRT felt good at first then over the months to years found them self right back at square on because they did not address other issues. TRT is a good thing provided all of the other system are working in harmony which I rarely see happening from a clinical side of things..I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
- 11-08-2013, 09:38 PM
11-10-2013, 08:25 AM
Absolutely agree with Matrix and this is something he mentioned years ago and I took it to heart. Now I see it happening the more that people post on here.
Secondly, 200mg a week for TRT is going to wreck you bad. Your e2 is going to be through the roof and it is going to be a bad trip. I went through this the hard way and it took almost a year to get everything right because you are constantly chasing and adjusting. I do 50mg e3.5d with no hcg or needed AI. I do enjoy transdermal formestane (Formeron) though, simply because it absolutely shreds me.
11-10-2013, 08:34 AM
If people on listened...lol
11-10-2013, 10:52 PM
Thanks for the insight guys.
Yea 200 mg seems pretty high and the doc initially wanted to start me on 150 but I said c'mon doc I'm a big guy I might need more. Not that I would take it all but I like to have the extra stash. He was cool about it. He says he's been reducing guys lately because at 200 mg/week most of his guys have been overshooting. I assumed he meant they're measuring higher than physiological norms.
So, I'm going to start with 75 mg 2X per week and adjust.
Oh and for now HCG is a must cause me and the wife are worried about kids.
One thing I noticed after my HCG shot a few days ago was a tremendous sense of well being.
This is a welcome feeling cause I'm probe to depression and haven't had a sense like that in years.
My question for Matrix:
This is my theory why the HCG made me feel so good and the huge T shot I started off with didn't.
Since I've been secondary hypo for so long and my LH levels were so low I was deficient in pregnelone. Throw an LH analog in there and all of a sudden it's brought up making me feel good along with the T being up.
I guess that the T alone (200 mg shot) before the HCG a few days later probably was such a shock to my system and I've been operating with overworked adrenals that it dropped my cortisol and made me feel drowsy, confused and anxious.
Matrix, does that make sense or are my assumptions off?
Also I had high DHEA prior to trt, is this a sign of adrenals being overworked?
Last question, is the adrenal/sex hormone axis a egg and chicken thing. Like will one cause the other. Can your body compensate for low T by raising adrenal function? Can your body drop T production for insufficient adrenal function?
My real question is how do these 2 work together and how are they related.
Positive note 1: one week in and in appears both my low libido and ED have been greatly improved. Painful erections that don't go away until orgasm. I mean I was having problems maintaining with sildenafil, so far no problems.
Positive note 2: one week in I've improved most lifts by 2-3 reps per exercise for the same weight. My body is primed to grow. I had a mid 300 bench, 600 dead lift and 500 squat on low T, I'm sooooo pumped about gains coming. If I'm able to get that strong on 244 ng/dl total T, no telling what I can do with normal levels.
For all the veterans out there happy Veterans Day.
And for all my Marines....Semper Fi Devil Nuts and Happy 238th Birthday!
11-16-2013, 11:23 PM
Lack of LH in brain can cause neurological symptoms since there are receptors for LH all over the body.
High DHEA is not same as DHEA-S. You need to clarify. High DHEA and low DHEA-s = low sulfur and trans-sulfration issues. I see it all the time.
High DHEA-S is the last hooray before the adrenals glands crash.
Suggest 4 point cortisol saliva from lab corp if possible.
11-21-2013, 12:23 PM
My DHEA-S level was 3149 ng/mL
Reference range is 1419-3867
So high normal.
11-21-2013, 04:59 PM
Oh sorry also SHBG was on the low end 12 reference 10-55 so I don't think that is an issue. I'm 32 y/o. Could my low T be cortisol related? I really want to get a hold of this because 3 weeks of trt aren't making me feel much better?
I went in to do a total cortisol blood test today. Like I said earlier dheas is on the high side of normal.
How is cortisol and T production related?
11-21-2013, 05:16 PM
3 weeks of TRT isn't going to tell you anything. Most people start seeing results in 4-6 weeks.
11-21-2013, 05:44 PM
Thanks for the encouragement bro. I guess I was hoping for a miracle cure right off the bat.
Anyway I still can't figure out how fixing adrenals, if I do have adrenal fatigue, will raise T.
Also I'd like to know the root cause of what is making me feel so crappy. Adrenal fatigue, low T, both, one more than the other?
For the last 8 years I feel like I've had anxiety stress and resultant depression. Comorbid to that low sex drive, energy, fatigue, etc.
If it was adrenals causing low T then fixing adrenals will fix low T???
Not that I don't believe it, but I looking for an explanation of how the two affect each other physiologically......
12-03-2013, 11:01 AM
Have you considered HGH (ripotropin specificly).... Im 45 years old ... its really helped me feel almost euphoricly happy and my sex drive is through the roof... and I understand everyone is different so all I can do is share my results!
12-03-2013, 02:33 PM
Hey Oldbuffone..... what tests did you have to determine low on HGH etc? Im 52 and I def could use a boost.
12-03-2013, 03:50 PM
I have no scientific deductive reasoning to give you sorry... I can only tell you the results im getting from it!
I'm not a doctor nor do I have any medical backround......I can only share with you cause n effect... but I will say... I feel like a kid again....
12-04-2013, 09:45 AM
Thanks amigo... Nuthin Like hearing a personal testimony, but I will tread lightly when I mention it to my Dr. BTW.. do you get the Ripotropin brand hgh , thru a Docs RX or did you buy it online ?
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