Testosterone Restart Protocol - Clomid or other?
- 08-28-2013, 09:56 AM
Testosterone Restart Protocol - Clomid or other?
After going back and forth with my doctors about my test levels they still refuse to help me get my levels up. I am 32 and my last tests had me in the 350 - 375 range and I think this is accounting as to how I feel and lack of sex drive, etc. They say I am in range (250-1100) and it isn't my problem; after getting tons of tests including MRI's I am now "normal" and broke. :-)
I want to try a restart protocol using Clomid or Tamox but I wasn't sure if I should stack it with an AI as well like Letro? Should I just go 12.5 mg of Clomid for 4 weeks and see what happens or stack it with an AI as well? I have been reading lots on it already and want to try it before I go full blown TRT through an anti-aging clinic. I know lots of you use CEM but I also would like to hear about the authenticity of their products if you have experience using them.
What protocols worked for you? Any help appreciated.
- 08-28-2013, 10:35 AM
Shouldn't need AI with clomid.
Need to know if u r primary or secondary hypogonadic. If primary clomid won't help as much.
08-28-2013, 01:05 PM
Did you get lh or fsh tests. If those are both low, the SERM might help. I've tried tamox and torem. 60mg torem worked better for me than 20mg tamox. I tried them years apart, so take it for what It's worth.
If the SERM works, there's a good chance you'll need an AI. I would add calcium d-glucarate right off the bat. Do the restart for three weeks or so, test for LH FSH T and E2. Report back.
08-28-2013, 02:13 PM
check into dr scally's protocol for a restart... here is what cashout did over on a few forums for his restat:
TRT is for life, but what if you wanted to try to get your own test levels back up after it was lowered by AAS or TRT.
Cashout did a great thread on Ology, but it is hard to find after being moved and is valuable, so I am posting the link and an excerpt here.
"As I have recently past my 2 year anniversary of HRT, I have spent some time reflecting on what I have accomplished with this program.
After extensive research, I turned to HRT a possible solution to my declining test levels in 2009. At the time Istarted HRT, my test level was 579 ng/dl. Not low by most standards but about 30% off my normal levels of 900+ ng/dl that I had maintain for some 15 years.
The symptoms of my declining test were as follows...
1. Frequent overtraining. I had reached a point for the first time in my bodybuilding lifestyle where about every 3 months, I would find myself overtrained. In 20 years daily committed train, this had never happened before.
2. Persistent and chronic minor illness. I had begun a steady process of developing repetitive colds and flu-like illnesses that were a function of #1 above.
3. Loss of muscle mass. Because of #1 & especially #2 above, I had drop about nearly 10 pounds of quality muscle.
4. Lack of metal focus. Again, I had never experienced this in my adult life in any capacity. Focus and will are the only things that I have ever possessed in abundance.
In my 2 years on HRT, I can say that I have remedied all of the above symptoms. So, I would declare my HRT a smashing success.
However, there is still one facet of my HRT that I have yet to assess my EXIT STRATEGY.
Like everything business related Ive owned and been involved in, I always have an exit strategy in the event that it is ever needed.
So, at this juncture, I am considering testing my HRT Exit Strategy to see if will indeed produce the results that I expect.
I am considering this not as a means to quit HRT but to reassure myself that I have covered all my bases and can proceed forward on HRT for the indefinite future knowing that if there is ever an issue down the road, I have already operationalize and tested my exit strategy successfully.
I started constructing my exit strategy based on some of my own previous research and personal experiences from my days using AAS to supplement by competitive bodybuilding. Also, Ive spent a tremendous amount of time and energy in the past 4 weeks discussing my exit strategy with several very knowledgeable physicians.
So, here is the plan that we have constructed and I will follow
Week HCG clomid Nolva letro
1 M/W/F/Su 2000 1.25 M/Th
2 T/Th/Sa 2000 1.25 M/Th
3 M/W/F 2000 1.25 M/Th
3 Sat/Sun 100 40 1.25 M/Th
4 Every Day 100 40 1.25 M/Th
5 100 40 1.25 M/Th
6 100 40 1.25 M/Th
7 40 1.25 M/Th
8 40 1.25 M/Th
9 1.25 M/Th
10 1.25 M/Th
I will take my last 100 mg shot of test cyp on the Monday one week before I start my exit. During the week before exiting, I will also have my blood work done for comparative purposes.
My blood work will be done again on the Friday of the 3rd week towards the end of the HCG treatments, again when I discontinue the clomid treatments, and finally, two weeks after I complete the Nolva treatments.
So, I hope to kick this exit strategy off on the Monday Dec 5th.
I will chronicle the results here for those who are interested."
also this was an update he later posted on his own findings:
I want to add a couple of comment to the original post in this thread....
1) The exit worked exceptionally well for me. In short, once I executed the plan I was able to restore my natural hormone levels to pre-decline levels of about 900 ng/dl.
2) From executing the plan, there is one minor change I'd recommend based on my expereience - increase the letro dosage to 1.25 mg EOD as opposed to M/Th. My estrogen elevated to over 40 during my HCG phase. While not terribly high, this did create some negative feedback and ultimately kept my natural test production lower. Blood works throughout the processes supported this idea and once I actually increase my letro my natural test did actually continue to increase.
3) Because of #2, I extended my taper down of Letro to avoid any type of estrogen rebound. I actually add 4 additional weeks to my taper of letro at the end of the exit.
My last blood profile, March 5th, looked great...my test was close to 900 ng/dl and all my related levels (LH, FSH, E) were all in a normal and acceptable range.
I am now starting my 5th month since the completion of the exit protocol and I have a blood draw scheduled for July 6th at 7:30 am.
So, I'll report some additional information next week.
see if it will work for u? for a complete restart... remember his #'s were naturally higher than a lot of peoples so dont expect this to raise urs to numbers outside of what ur body can do...
08-28-2013, 10:00 PM
Does is matter if I go with Nolva over the Clomid for the restart? I have been reading about the side of Clomid and think Nola might be a better choice. I was going to stack it with the AI if necessary but I am working on getting access to my medical lab numbers so I dont know what all they collected. The MRI of my brain didnt show anything wrong per the doctors.
08-28-2013, 10:54 PM
Clomid is better cuz it is works primarily at the hpta pituitary area, whereas nolva targets breast tissue. Nolva is good for preventing gyno, but in the case of doing a pituitary restart its Clomid. Only use AI if blood work indicates E issues.
08-30-2013, 10:06 PM
i just had my labs/ blood drawn to find out if my test is low. if i do happen to get on trt would working out benefit my body more than a ph? im kinda confused. trt is to balance your test levels right? as opposed to "pinning" to elevate your levels right?
09-02-2013, 06:09 PM
Just ordered the Liquid Clomi and some Liquid Varden from CEM. I got the Varden to get my total at the $100 so I could get the $20 off. I need to research the dosing on the Varden if anyone has any recommendations. Should (Can I?) I dose both or stay off the Varden until Clomid is done? Since this is the last day of the sale is there anything else I might need?
09-04-2013, 10:26 PM
I am looking at Doctor Scallys HTPA restart protocol and the dosing I keep seeing is 100mg every day split in to 2 50 mg doses over a 45 day period. Am I reading that right or is that seem a little high?
09-09-2013, 04:28 PM
Scally's protocol is ridiculous stupid. Look, either a restart will work, or it won't if you try it once.
Clomid is crap...plain and simple. Tamox is much better and has proven more effective than Clomid with less sides.
Last, Torem is a great alternative, nearly as good as Tamox.
So if you want to try Scally's magical protocol, substitue Tamox for Clomid...you don't need anymore than 60mg/day of that.
The problem is, most restarts fail.
09-11-2013, 02:20 AM
09-11-2013, 09:32 PM
For what? I started the clomid 25 mg every other day (M,W,F) so I will be running that for 3-6 weeks.
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