I'm at a complete loss of what to do and need some help

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    I'm at a complete loss of what to do and need some help


    Hope I'm asking in the right area...
    Ok, I'm about to turn 48, have low T (measured last year at 220), no longer have insurance, and don't want to pin (I hate needles...I know, wussie).
    I would really like to get my libido and sex drive back. My diet is on point as I have lost a lot of fat since I started working out again about 2 1/2 months ago...just have a little bit in the belly area and a little bit around my chest area. I have taken a bunch of natty stuff like Tongkat, Icariin, Catuaba, Butea, Gingko, Goji Berry, Trib, Maca, Ortho-Core Multi, D3, Zinc, Magnesium, Mucuna, and Sensoril. Just finished about 4-5 weeks of Erase OG. I have seen an increase in erection quantity and quality and my libido has increased some after all this.

    I want something that I can take continuously that will help with increasing Test, libido, and erection quality. I would have loved if Sustain Alpha was around since I think this could have helped, but it's gone. Then I saw Arom-X RDe is fairly similar to SA but not a topical and I'm not sure about the delivery system being as good as SA. Then I thought maybe RS-Transaderm but I'm not sure about using it daily since it has DHEA and Pregenolone in it and I'm not trying to shut completely down (although the 7,8 Benzo, Reseveratol, and the chrysin it contains are beneficial).

    So, I don't know what to do at this point...I suppose I could get some of that generic Androgel, but when I was on it before I lost insurance I didn't see much increase in my T levels (was tested twice...went up about 15 points).

    Help me out guys as I am really wanting to get my sex drive back going more than it is now (like I said, it is better now than before I lost the weight and started working out...just want to maximize things as much as I can).
    Thank you for any help you can give me.

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    1. You need to get your lifestyle and nutrition in check
    2. Just because you take a supplement does not mean its getting absorb. It would be highly suggested to have this information validated by proper testing which can be done through normal labs.
    3. You need to get a complete blood work on thyroid, adrenals, and testosterone, and general parameters
    4. I would also suggest to get a neuroadrenal basic from neuroscience to assess your neurotransmitters levels to see why you are not sleep correctly. With poor sleep hygiene the body will never heal or recuperate, gh will take a nose dive so will testosteorne. Just by correcting peoples sleep patterns testosterone in younger guys have increased 50-60% where they did not need TRT. Older people over 40 are not as fortunate, but working from different angles on can get multi benefits for recovery as well as over general well being.
    5. You always have to keep asking your self, until you truly see the real picture which may be masked by other factors such as TRT (manly in younger guys).
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    As mentioned, nutrition is in check...lifestyle-I work 8-5 in a job that doesn't stress me out (which is nice). I workout after work, then have dinner and I relax until bed. I do wake up a few times during the night (not always) and I always wake up about 20 minutes before my alarm goes off (a little frustrating). I was prescribed Ambien awhile pack, but it did not help at all and I would really like to avoid those types of sleep aides (I have no trouble getting to sleep). I was told last year that my thyroid was fine but I had low T (I had told the Dr what I was feeling and he told me everything looked ok except the low T).
    Would I be better suited getting the NeuroEndocrine Essential?
    In the mean time, is any of the things I listed going to help?
    What is recommended for my situation?
    •   
       

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    What is your height and weight? What are current macros?
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    5'11" 180 pounds, aprox 40-45% protein, 35% fats, 15% carbs, all healthy no junk.
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    You need HRT, period.

    I know you said you don't have insurance, but I believe the topical testosterone creams are pretty affordable.

    It will change your life.

    Just do it.
    I'd rather be driving my Chevelle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    You need HRT, period.

    I know you said you don't have insurance, but I believe the topical testosterone creams are pretty affordable.

    It will change your life.

    Just do it.
    So using any of the one's I listed wouldn't be sufficient?
    If it's straight Androgel, what else would be recommended?
    When I was on two pumps a day, I saw NO difference in lethargy, libido, sex drive, etc and as I stated, my Test numbers didn't increase that much. The natty stuff I've been taking plus diet, plus working out I know has increased somtehing since I'm not as lethargic, my libido and sex drive are up a little bit too...hence my confusion on what to do.
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    If your T levels didn't go up, as they should have, maybe the application was not working. Try a different brand perhaps.

    But seriously you need to get over the issue you have with needles. Is there anyone who can give you the injections?

    I give myself injections and I use cypionate and my T levels went from 145 to over 900.
    I'd rather be driving my Chevelle.
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    That's the thing, I'm not sure I was actually applying the Androgel properly...I was rubbing it in till it was dry...some places I saw that you just sort of wipe it on and leave it to dry...which way is correct?
    Also, as I asked, what else should I take to keep Estro from skyrocketing? Again, I would hope something on the natural side since if I buy the generic Androgel it's going to cost me and right now I'm trying to keep costs down as much as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    That's the thing, I'm not sure I was actually applying the Androgel properly...I was rubbing it in till it was dry...some places I saw that you just sort of wipe it on and leave it to dry...which way is correct?
    Also, as I asked, what else should I take to keep Estro from skyrocketing? Again, I would hope something on the natural side since if I buy the generic Androgel it's going to cost me and right now I'm trying to keep costs down as much as possible.
    You rub in until dry, some have seen results by leaving it wet, but that is not as prescribed, use per instructions as with any drug. You were doing it right, the gels don't work for everyone, hence many of us are injecting.
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    I'm wondering if the dose just wasn't high enough or if what my body was taking in was just being converted to E...dunno...maybe I'll give it a go with that Phlogel stuff. So Transaderm wouldn't be of any benefit I take it? What about something with the 7,8 Benzo/Trans-Reversitol in it to help with AI?
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    2 pumps of androgel will only get you to pre-androgel levels, like 300. The amount of pumps you were using was your problem, you need AT LEAST 4 pumps....probably more. 2 pumps usually just replaces your (low) endogenous test (level).
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post
    2 pumps of androgel will only get you to pre-androgel levels, like 300. The amount of pumps you were using was your problem, you need AT LEAST 4 pumps....probably more. 2 pumps usually just replaces your (low) endogenous test (level).
    I was reading a thread last night that you were in the discussion about Phlogel...wouldn't 2 pumps Androgel plus the addition of the Phlogel vastly increase the absorption of the Androgel like svida was saying it did for him? I thought you were trying that as well...what were your results with the addition of the Phlogel?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    I was reading a thread last night that you were in the discussion about Phlogel...wouldn't 2 pumps Androgel plus the addition of the Phlogel vastly increase the absorption of the Androgel like svida was saying it did for him? I thought you were trying that as well...what were your results with the addition of the Phlogel?
    Yeah that could work (hard to say what exact % the phlogel raises each pump of androgel though), Best idea would be to apply 2 pumps androgel with phlogel, then get retested and compare the lab results. Then you would have a 2 pumps vs. 2 pumps with phlogel comparison. With me? I was on the phlogel, but the damn US distributor notified his best customers there was going to be a price increase upcoming....so they cleared his shelves within days. Then his shipment from Canada got seized by customs, and is pending a decision as to whether its allowed to pass through. Upshot is that i haven't been able to use phlogel for almost 2 months due to this guy and his stalling. My last lab came out at 961 at 8 pumps androgel with 3 pumps transaderm (DHEA topical). I had bumped down from 12 pumps to 8 pumps only 10 or so days prior....so not sure if that 961 was inflated or not, I feel I waited long enough to get an accurate reading on 8 pumps. so phlogel might be a bad idea for me since I have it where I want it (900-1000)....i suppose I could drop down to 4-6 pumps with phlogel and get a similar result, but why mess with success?
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    Ahh, so maybe I should give the generic Androgel a shot...they make a 3.24%, maybe I should hop on that at two pumps plus the Phlojel. Now here's the next question...I would be on this for life I would assume...I don't want Estro going crazy, what do you or the others recommend for that? I want to try DIM as a staple just to have the good "E" around, and Erase says you have to take breaks...see why I'm confused lol, and I'm a smart IT guy too!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    Ahh, so maybe I should give the generic Androgel a shot...they make a 3.24%, maybe I should hop on that at two pumps plus the Phlojel. Now here's the next question...I would be on this for life I would assume...I don't want Estro going crazy, what do you or the others recommend for that? I want to try DIM as a staple just to have the good "E" around, and Erase says you have to take breaks...see why I'm confused lol, and I'm a smart IT guy too!!
    Yeah this shyt is complicated remember that standard androgel is 1% or 1.62%...so 1 pump of 3.24% would be like 2 pumps of Rx androgel (the 1.64% version). Plus I am not so sure about the potency of the generics, not sure if you can get the Rx androgel with your insurance or not. Pretty much everybody has come to the conclusion that erase just doesn't pair well with actual testosterone, even topicals. Most guys use low dose arimidex or aromasin, I'm trying out formestane right now if you noticed in the estrogen/alcohol thread. It's an OTC AI that previously held prescription status....so I'll let everybody know how that goes bringing down my E2, which is pretty damn high at 51. But for guys on trt, I'd shytcan the whole cycling the AI protocol, you are on trt 24/7-365....so you have to be on the AI as well. But remember you will be taking it EOD or E3D most likely, so you are not taking it daily. Unless maybe with forma you would take it daily since its a topical.
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    Crap forma is topical too??? You dose at the same time as the Androgel?
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    *also, you don't need an AI until such time as you have an issue with E2 .....so until the labs tell you that you have a problem? I'd steer clear of AI's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    Crap forma is topical too??? You dose at the same time as the Androgel?
    Yeah, I put about 1/2 on my lower chest, and half on my traps/delts along with a pump of androgel on each side as well. Forma is supposedly lousy when used orally, poor absorption...one of the reasons they discontinued it from what I have read.
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    Can you PM me where you got your Forma from? I'd like to have it just in case....What do you think of the Forma-Stanzol? Any benefit to me since it has DIM, 7,8 Benzo, and Chrysin?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    Can you PM me where you got your Forma from? I'd like to have it just in case....What do you think of the Forma-Stanzol? Any benefit to me since it has DIM, 7,8 Benzo, and Chrysin?
    Yeah that is the one I have been using, forma-stanzol....but I'm tired of paying so much for it, and having to chase the "thursday sales" they have now. Nutraplanet carries formeron if you look that up on their site, they are a board sponsor so its OK to mention them on here.
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    So which is your favorite, Formestane or Forma-Stanzol?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    So which is your favorite, Formestane or Forma-Stanzol?
    well forma-stanzol is a brand name of formestane.....so forma is forma basically. I just look for a reputable company and a transdermal delivery system. mr supps is reputable but expensive, and formeron has gotten good reviews so far. I've only used forma-stanzol though the past few years.
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    Can you or the others give me some good ideas of staples I should be taking to balance hormone levels, mood, and well being? As stated before, diet is good and workouts are good...definitely need to get that test Matrix suggested to see if my neuro stuff is good since I do not sleep as good as most.
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    Also, Matrix pointed me to some neural tests I should do, can you guys recommend where to get labs done that won't break the bank and the type of tests I should get? I really appreciate the help from all of you.
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    http://www.privatemdlabs.com/

    female hormone panel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoooter View Post
    http://www.privatemdlabs.com/

    female hormone panel.
    This^^^^^^.
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    Not the Male Anti-Aging Ultimate w/ Free (Direct) Testosterone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    Ahh, so maybe I should give the generic Androgel a shot...they make a 3.24%, maybe I should hop on that at two pumps plus the Phlojel. Now here's the next question...I would be on this for life I would assume...I don't want Estro going crazy, what do you or the others recommend for that? I want to try DIM as a staple just to have the good "E" around, and Erase says you have to take breaks...see why I'm confused lol, and I'm a smart IT guy too!!
    I'm using generic Androgel 3.24 currently. My version uses DSMO as a carrier so I don't think Phlojel would help very much. I am also using formestane at 50 mg/day to control estrogen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    Not the Male Anti-Aging Ultimate w/ Free (Direct) Testosterone?
    No. The female hormone panel gives levels of all hormones needed to interpret where your issues are.
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    Thanks ken but which Female Hormone Panel?..there are several listed...BBB PM coming your way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    Thanks ken but which Female Hormone Panel?..there are several listed...BBB PM coming your way.
    Here you go:

    Cheap Bloodwork - How to Get It WITHOUT Insurance
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    Thanks, but I read that thread before I asked. They something about 59.99 and I don't see any in the "Female" section that are that price. Just want to get it right the first time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    Thanks, but I read that thread before I asked. They something about 59.99 and I don't see any in the "Female" section that are that price. Just want to get it right the first time.
    The female hormone panel is in the most requested tests box, on private labs MD. home page seriously you can't miss it, I wouldn't pay $60.00 for it use Google and find a coupon code, if you can't find one let me know.
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    The female panel is super nice, estradiol and test and all that good stuff.....BUT you have to order the free test separate for another 60-70 bucks. That sucks since men want free test AND total test (plus the actual female stuff)...women don't care about free test This private medlabs place deals with labcorp huh? I got a labcorp that I could walk too around here local actually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I'm using generic Androgel 3.24 currently. My version uses DSMO as a carrier so I don't think Phlojel would help very much. I am also using formestane at 50 mg/day to control estrogen.
    BBB,

    Can you provide any additional information on the generic Androgel 3.24?? I have only seen the 1.62, and was not aware a geeric version was offered. Any help you can provide would be appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I'm using generic Androgel 3.24 currently. My version uses DSMO as a carrier so I don't think Phlojel would help very much. I am also using formestane at 50 mg/day to control estrogen.
    Actually the phlojel people say that (of course) their carrier is 10X as effective as DMSO....and that DMSO is no even a proper transdermal carrier, and theirs is an actual carrier....but they also say that phlojel will amplify the DMSO's effects....and in another place they say DMSO is probably not necessary to use as an adjunct to phlojel. So they double talk it a little bit, but essentially they are saying that phlojel is a far superior method to get better absorption. I tend to believe them judging by reports of fellow AM members. Upshot is that I think phlogel would help with any other carrier (such as alcohol or DMSO etc.) since its been proven to be effective on skin for absorption of "X" product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post
    Actually the phlojel people say that (of course) their carrier is 10X as effective as DMSO....and that DMSO is no even a proper transdermal carrier, and theirs is an actual carrier....but they also say that phlojel will amplify the DMSO's effects....and in another place they say DMSO is probably not necessary to use as an adjunct to phlojel. So they double talk it a little bit, but essentially they are saying that phlojel is a far superior method to get better absorption. I tend to believe them judging by reports of fellow AM members. Upshot is that I think phlogel would help with any other carrier (such as alcohol or DMSO etc.) since its been proven to be effective on skin for absorption of "X" product.
    AH - I was just about to place an order for Phojel (having used it the past w/ other transdermals) - but based on your earlier comment it sounds as if they are out; or am I incorrect??? I was planning on placing the order with the Canadian supplier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    AH - I was just about to place an order for Phojel (having used it the past w/ other transdermals) - but based on your earlier comment it sounds as if they are out; or am I incorrect??? I was planning on placing the order with the Canadian supplier.
    Yeah, we (those waiting on the US guy) got our orders direct from the Canada supplier since they intervened to help us out (the main place, HQ I guess).....they helped out the US distributor fellow fulfill his outstanding orders, since he had his shipment held up in customs. Mine finally got here last Friday, so if you order from Canada? you are good to go....if you are intending to order from the US distributor? Don't took me about 2 months to receive it......
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