Alcohol aromatizing injected test

[LMuscle]

Does alcohol aromatize injected testosterone into e2?? If I inject, and then go drinking shots that night, is most if it going to aromatize?

 

[brundel]

Alcohol cannot aromatize anything.
Aromatization is caused by the enzyme aromatase which converts testosterone into estrogen.

Alcohol CAN cause an increase in the aromatase enzyme though so....drinking alcohol will increase estrogen and decrease testosterone.

 

[brundel]

If your worried about it. Get a bottle of Formeron. Its a transdermal aromatase inhibitor.
This will reduce the amount of aromatase therefore resolving the issue.
Its good to use a light dose on HRT anyways to keep estro in check and as much of your test...test.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/black-lion-research/formeron-120-ml.html

 

[kisaj]

I will say that this product does get reviewed extremely well on any site that I have heard people trying it. I would say that for the low price and feedback, it would be worth a try for those that can't get a script and have e2 issues. It may even be good for freeing up free test for those of us on TRT. I'd love to see numbers to back it.

 

[brundel]

There is TONS of bloodwork on the net for Formeron.
I have one from a guy whos test level was 81ng/dl

after 6 days on Formeron his total T was 700 and his free T was 240!!!! this is almost twice the normal range lol.
I can post the bloodwork although its already posted in our forum

 

[kisaj]

So I just ordered a bottle and plan to log it to see how it compliments TRT- or if I notice anything. I don't have estrogen issues, but I am interested to see any benefit, and at recommended TRT doses of a single pump it will last 4 months.

 

[brundel]

A single pump is 1.5ml so it wont last that long.
but 50mg FOrmestane is a VERY low dose. I wouldnt think youll feel anything from that.

Then again..the guy Im talking about in the last post was using 2 pumps per day.....=3ml
40 days or so at that dose.

 

[kisaj]

Understood. I'll be conducting my own little experiment to find that sweet spot because there is a lot of information out there about dosing and it seems some guys are saying a dose EOD, some 1 pump a day, others 2+. Not being prone to e2 issues, I may get away with much less. I mean, I average 800 levels of test on only 50mg e3.5d for TRT. What seems to be agreed upon is that it is very strong and the only comparisons seem to be to script AIs and never OTC.

I am primarily looking for the hardening and determine how freeing up more free test will affect me. A boost in libido would always be a nice side too, although I really have no issues there. Sometimes I would like to feel 18 instead of 25, though. Call me greedy.

 

[lboston]

Where is this product typically applied? I thought about trying it as well, but I worry about transfer to my two little girls.

 

[kisaj]

Reading up on it, they recommend the forearms and apparently it dries very fast. Mine will be here this week, so I am stoked to test it out.

 

[Chuckj1973]

I'm very interested in how your test goes. I've been considering using this product myself. Looking forward to hearing more.

 

[kisaj]

I'm not sure if it is against the rules to mention distributors by name, but I feel it is worth mentioning that I placed my order with NutraPlanet late on Thursday night and picked standard 5-7 day shipping. I just received notification that it is out for delivery today. Very impressive on the pulling, packing, and shipping time.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I'm not sure if it is against the rules to mention distributors by name, but I feel it is worth mentioning that I placed my order with NutraPlanet late on Thursday night and picked standard 5-7 day shipping. I just received notification that it is out for delivery today. Very impressive on the pulling, packing, and shipping time.

You can mention nutraplanet or any of the companies they carry. matter of fact its probably encouraged on this board lol. btw i always use 100mg+ of forma...but i use the expensive brand we are not allowed to mention on this board....and usually in concert with erase or adex if im really having estrogen issues.

 

[kisaj]

Ok, I am going to start a log, but I thought I would post my initial one here.

Opened the package and unfortunately my canister was a little crushed, but still pumped fine, so I am letting it go. One pump puts out about a 1/4 teaspoon of clear, gritty liquid. I squirted directly on my forearm and rubbed them together. The first thing I noticed was the very clean, soapy scent. I was really surprised at how clean and unoffensive it was. After about 20 sec of rubbing my arms together, it was completely dry. I mean, not a hint of moisture. Very nice. About 10 minutes after, a rush of warmth and a bit of energy set in. This was followed by 45min-1 hour of euphoria and then it slowly went away and that was about it, but energy kept a hold of me for a few hours. I was writing emails and just bouncing my leg the whole time flying through them.

Fast forward a few hours and that has subsided and now I have just had the urge to piss. I've gone 3 times in 3 hours without excessive water consumption.

Initial thought is "whoa". Will continue to log in a separate thread and finish this bottle. Expiration date is 9/15, so if it works like I have read, I am stocking up. We all know things that really work well don't last without being shut down.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

The company i referred to earlier has been listing on their site that they do not know how much longer their forma will be available lol accompanied by a "no returns policy". makes you want to stock up on "whatever brand" forma. This has been the case for a year now.

 

[brundel]

Ok, I am going to start a log, but I thought I would post my initial one here.

Opened the package and unfortunately my canister was a little crushed, but still pumped fine, so I am letting it go. One pump puts out about a 1/4 teaspoon of clear, gritty liquid. I squirted directly on my forearm and rubbed them together. The first thing I noticed was the very clean, soapy scent. I was really surprised at how clean and unoffensive it was. After about 20 sec of rubbing my arms together, it was completely dry. I mean, not a hint of moisture. Very nice. About 10 minutes after, a rush of warmth and a bit of energy set in. This was followed by 45min-1 hour of euphoria and then it slowly went away and that was about it, but energy kept a hold of me for a few hours. I was writing emails and just bouncing my leg the whole time flying through them.

Fast forward a few hours and that has subsided and now I have just had the urge to piss. I've gone 3 times in 3 hours without excessive water consumption.

Initial thought is "whoa". Will continue to log in a separate thread and finish this bottle. Expiration date is 9/15, so if it works like I have read, I am stocking up. We all know things that really work well don't last without being shut down.

Sometimes the bottles get dented in transit. It doesnt effect the product at all.

Best application sites are upper chest, neck, delts. Forearms are actually not that great. We did recommend that a long time ago but basically just because I had been applying my transdermals there for years. Turns out the skin is much thinner near the upper chest. 50% less absorption on the forearms so...
Try to use your wrists NOT HANDS because anything on your hands is wasted. Its difficult but using your wrists apply to upper chest, neck delts area.

This also makes it so you can wear a shirt and not worry about transfer to the kids or wife.

LOTS of guys feel euphoria and a mild rush with Formeron......the peeing is the water starting to drain. I generally lose 5-6lbs in the first few days of use...you can really see it in my face.

Glad your liking it

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Sometimes the bottles get dented in transit. It doesnt effect the product at all.

Best application sites are upper chest, neck, delts. Forearms are actually not that great. We did recommend that a long time ago but basically just because I had been applying my transdermals there for years. Turns out the skin is much thinner near the upper chest. 50% less absorption on the forearms so...
Try to use your wrists NOT HANDS because anything on your hands is wasted. Its difficult but using your wrists apply to upper chest, neck delts area.

This also makes it so you can wear a shirt and not worry about transfer to the kids or wife.

LOTS of guys feel euphoria and a mild rush with Formeron......the peeing is the water starting to drain. I generally lose 5-6lbs in the first few days of use...you can really see it in my face.

Glad your liking it

Let me ask you this.....you guys have the full blown chemical compound name listed on your ingredients list as opposed to "formestane 50mg"....so is your stuff the same as mr supps forma-stanzol? in other words 50mg of their stuff is equivalent to 50mg of your stuff? (I know yours is better lol , but just saying mg for mg comparison) I think 3 pumps of yours is probably cheaper than their forma at 15 pumps (150mg vs. 150mg). Well with theirs not being on sale, which would bring it a lot closer in cost.

 

[brundel]

Let me ask you this.....you guys have the full blown chemical compound name listed on your ingredients list as opposed to "formestane 50mg"....so is your stuff the same as mr supps forma-stanzol? in other words 50mg of their stuff is equivalent to 50mg of your stuff? (I know yours is better lol , but just saying mg for mg comparison) I think 3 pumps of yours is probably cheaper than their forma at 15 pumps (150mg vs. 150mg). Well with theirs not being on sale, which would bring it a lot closer in cost.

I cant say for sure the purity of their formestane. I can say ours is 100% Formestane or 99% at worst.
I can also tell you that our transdermal carrier is better.
I can also tell you that theirs contains a chemical known to cause liver cancer.....fast. I wouldnt rub that on myself literally if you paid me 10000$

Also 2 pumps of ours = 150mg
if theirs is 15 pumps for the same dose thats ALOT of fluid to be rubbing all over yourself...and even more of the benzoflavone which causes cancer.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I cant say for sure the purity of their formestane. I can say ours is 100% Formestane or 99% at worst.
I can also tell you that our transdermal carrier is better.
I can also tell you that theirs contains a chemical known to cause liver cancer.....fast. I wouldnt rub that on myself literally if you paid me 10000$

Also 2 pumps of ours = 150mg
if theirs is 15 pumps for the same dose thats ALOT of fluid to be rubbing all over yourself...and even more of the benzoflavone which causes cancer.

oh yeah, your ingredient list is confusing....says "1ml =50mg" but 1 pump = 1.5ml lol. Theirs is 10 "pumps" for 100mg I believe, so ~10mg per "pump"....I quote pump because it is a TINY pump, you'd need like 50 pumps to equal say one pump of dermacrine. So its deceiving as to the serving size, there is actually much less to rub in as compared to your stuff if you will be using 3ml or so. I'll check yours out next time I grab some forma.

 

[brundel]

oh yeah, your ingredient list is confusing....says "1ml =50mg" but 1 pump = 1.5ml lol. Theirs is 10 "pumps" for 100mg I believe, so ~10mg per "pump"....I quote pump because it is a TINY pump, you'd need like 50 pumps to equal say one pump of dermacrine. So its deceiving as to the serving size, there is actually much less to rub in as compared to your stuff if you will be using 3ml or so. I'll check yours out next time I grab some forma.

You wont be disappointed.
I have been a formestane junkie for a decade. I designed this myself. The carrier is top notch..similar to androgel but more hydrating and penetration components added. It smells nice. Dries fast. Absorbs very well.

 

[kisaj]

Ok, I am finishing up my 3rd day on this at 2 pumps ed. I can't say that I am noticing anything, but as I mentioned before, I really not prone to estrogen issues. The initial piss fest I had stopped after the first day and since then, everything has remained about the same. I imagine labs would tell me more, but I plan to just go by the seat of my pants on this. Still loving the smell, though! LOL.

 

[brundel]

2 pumps isnt alot though either.
Its a great dose to keep estro at bay but other than that I wouldnt expect much.
This is the same with any AI.

Now....at high doses Formeron is anabolic...NO other ai is period.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

You wont be disappointed.
I have been a formestane junkie for a decade. I designed this myself. The carrier is top notch..similar to androgel but more hydrating and penetration components added. It smells nice. Dries fast. Absorbs very well.

My estradiol is pretty high at 51, so I jumped on some forma while i waited on some aromasin. How do you feel forma compares to aromasin for lowering estradiol? I mean its still OTC so if it works just as well then why not use forma......

 

[AnabolicHolic]

2 pumps isnt alot though either.
Its a great dose to keep estro at bay but other than that I wouldnt expect much.
This is the same with any AI.

Now....at high doses Formeron is anabolic...NO other ai is period.

yeah I want to keep estrogen controlled so I figure to use 150mg or so....maybe 200 since its really high.

 

[kisaj]

2 pumps isnt alot though either.
Its a great dose to keep estro at bay but other than that I wouldnt expect much.
This is the same with any AI.

Now....at high doses Formeron is anabolic...NO other ai is period.

I have a big BBQ weekend coming up and I know I'll be having drinks, so this will be a great test.

 

[brundel]

My estradiol is pretty high at 51, so I jumped on some forma while i waited on some aromasin. How do you feel forma compares to aromasin for lowering estradiol? I mean its still OTC so if it works just as well then why not use forma......

Formestane was a prescription medication. Its no longer being used as a drug in the US and is not a controlled substance.
It was used for sometime as a prescription medication for lowering estrogen.
it was replaced with aromasin because it needed to be injected and was anabolic which is bad for primarily female breast cancer patients.
Anabolic is great for us though and we got around the injection part by making it a transdermal.

 

[kisaj]

Interesting note that was brought to light by my wife this morning. She just made an off the cuff remark about what a great mood I've been in the last few days. I was like, "really? am I not usually in a good mood?" And she responded that I am, but that I seem like nothing is bothering me. I tend to have a very stressful career and bring it around with me a lot.

Also, I injected yesterday morning and I always get a bit of edge no matter how low the dose later in the inject afternoons and it usually goes away by the next day. Yesterday and today I noticed nothing. I am very sensitive to this, so I know when it is real or a placebo effect.

So, in short, I am very pleased because there is no doubt this is having something to do with my mood. Even to the point where I didn't realize it, but my family did.

 

[brundel]

Glad to hear it. This mood swing is likely caused by a spike in estrogen. Think PMS. Basically....when you shoot 200mg test your test level spikes VERY high for about 24 hours. INto the 1400ng/dl range + then tapers quickly into range and slowly tapers down from there.
The first big spike is followed of course by a HUGE spike in estrogen. This causes PMS like symptoms except of course the cramping.
If, however, you block this conversion of test to estrogen using Formeron the big estrogen spike is prevented Aaaaannnd....all that test that would have become estrogen is now kept as test meaning even your injected test is more efficient.

 

[kisaj]

Okay, I am a fan. I am getting a bulk order of this and storing it away- just in case. Mood is way up, energy is through the roof, and I've dropped about 3lbs, which I now know was water weight because I look really lean. I apparently was suffering a little bit from e2 and didn't even realize it. I am using 1 full squirt a day on my inner thigh. Once I moved from my chest to thigh is when I really started noticing it.

Also, I went to a show at Red Rocks on Fri and last night and got after it a bit- yet today I feel fantastic and have no bloat.

 

[brundel]

Some people absorb well in the inner thighs. The skin is pretty thin there.
Like you, I notice a good deal of water loss. 3lbs of water is alot of water.

Also you just feel better when estro is managed. High estro makes us moody and PMS like. Not good.
Glad to hear your having good results

 

[Chuckj1973]

Sounds like your having good results. I'm likely to give it a try with my TRT.

 

[kisaj]

Yeah, I am riding at about 206-208 down from 210-212 when I started this last week and look shredded, and lifts have stayed the same. Endurance is feeling better as I have adding back in my 20 mile daily rides starting last Thur.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I'll play my part, I'm gonna get my estrogen (total) and estradiol tested while only on forma stanzol 200mg per day (plus my androgel trt of course) for one month (or so). Just got tested first week of August, and I'll get tested for estrogen first or second week of September....this will indicate what kind of estrogen control the forma provides. Last two labs were 165/195 (total) estrogen, and n/a/51 estradiol. I know for a fact the stuff is working, I used it last year while on vacation with nice results, and I started it this year one week prior to vacation. Got the water weight loss and the tightening up effects both times despite going pretty balls out with the eating for 10 days. I'll be getting tested at a private lab of unknown origin since I'll probably do this on my own since its $100. Might be a different scale/range than labcorp, not sure. If its legit bringing me into the 20's for estradiol, I'll continue to use it with trt....well probably formeron since its available at NP....will get pricey but at least its OTC and readily available.

 

[brundel]

Formestane was a prescription medication for years. Its very good at managing estrogen levels....and its anabolic

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Formestane was a prescription medication for years. Its very good at managing estrogen levels....and its anabolic

Yeah I've been using it for years off and on.....but never as an adjunct to something like TRT. I'm running it high since I'm eating kinda shytty right now, plus I want to take a big whack out of that estrogen # within the month....then taper it down to maybe 100mg maintenance dose to go along with the androgel. Plus the anabolic effect I should be getting at 200mg is welcomed.

 

[grega60438]

benzoflavone which causes cancer.[/QUOTE]

According to Eric Potratz cancer from 7,8-benzoflavone is taken out of context.
If you have proof otherwise, I am all ears.

Eric Potratz Quote:
"October 14th, 2009 – A search on Google for 7,8-benzoflavone yields a link to a blogger who appears to have the opinion that 7,8-benzoflavone is a dangerous carcinogenic substance. They based this opinion on several studies which combined high levels of well known cancer causing substances, with 7,8-benzoflavone. They provided no references showing 7,8-benzoflavone is a carcinogenic substance in and of itself.
The first reference discusses the carcinogenbenzo[a]pyreneas being highly carcinogenic and that when combined with 7,8-benzoflavone, this can increase the rate of tumor formation. While this is true, this particular study foundzero tumor formation when 7,8-benzoflavone was used alone, and it in fact inhibited tumor formation caused by the more potent carcinogen7,12-dimethylbenz(a)anthracene(DMBA), thus offering a net protective effect against tumor formation. (1)

Other studies have also shown 7,8-benzoflavone has protective effects against cancer by inducing 2-hydroxylation of estrogens, thus increasing the clearance of estrogens and reducing cancer risk. (2-4)

Isolating flavonoids and carcinogens together in an in-vitro environment is a popular cancer research practice for studying the metabolism of cancer causing substances. Virtually all natural flavonoids (exp., quercetin, tangeretin, chrysin or nobiletin) have been found to negatively or positively metabolize carcinogenic chemicals in special test tube environments. However the research clearly shows a net anti-cancer effect from naturally occurring flavones. (5-7)

-Eric Potratz
Founder & President"


I have no stock in anything other than the truth...By the way interested in your product too.

 

[LMuscle]

So do any of you guys get sore joints on Formeron, any weakness from loss of water? I would think losing that much water would make you constipated as well. Sounds interesting, but I'd like to know more about the side effects before I try it. Is it stronger than Erase?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Man my estrogen is always so high i never get to the point of creaky joints.....but I do notice when the water bloat, just that minor layer that blurs your definition, goes away when on forma. As Brundel referenced, its been well documented by mr supps that forma was formerly the prescription AI Lentaron....and due to "loopholes" they are allowed to sell it OTC....the oral absorption was terrible, and it gives anabolic effects at higher dosages (not good overall, and not good for women). Comparisons to arimidex or aromasin are more in line with what it is, forma should make erase look like a bitch by comparison.

 

[brundel]

Understand your quoting a response by a guy selling benzoflavone.
In the above statement he does admit benzoflavone can lead to tumor growth he just tries to skirt around it by blaming it on other things.
He then states that it clearly is anti cancer which is absurd. -
"Virtually all natural flavonoids (exp., quercetin, tangeretin, chrysin or nobiletin) have been found to negatively or positively metabolize carcinogenic chemicals in special test tube environments" so this is his proof it is anti cancer?
At any rate we are not really concerned with what happens in a pitri dish.
We are concerned with what happens when a guy uses it with formestane for PCT or to treat elevated estrogen levels.
I can show you hundreds of studies that show something happening in a pitri dish but in real life, in humans, it doesnt do anything at all or does something completely different.


The studies which we are primarily concerned with, in this instance, are those which state the benzoflavone or it appears a metabolite, in the presence of
elevated estrogen levels, causes aggressive liver tumor formation. The first signs were seen within a few WEEKS!

"The male Syrian golden hamster has been proposed as an animal model, because the combined pretreatment with EE2 and 7,8-benzoflavone (BF) leads to a high incidence of hepatic tumors "

Why is this important?
Benzoflavone is used in all these supplements primarily to TREAT elevated estrogen. So.....pretty much every time it is used is in a situation that
will have similar circumstances as those seen in the liver tumor genesis model.
Elevated estrogen levels + benzoflavone can possibly lead to potentially life threatening liver tumors.

Are you willing to take the risk because someone who SELLS benzoflavone says its safe when there are a ton of studies where it was present and the result was cancer or severe tumor growth. Im not.
There are studies where it was combined with known cancer causing agents and the result was cancer...no big surprise there.
And again my primary concern are the studies showing that it, combined with elevated estro levels caused liver tumors.
In dont want myself of anyone else risking their health for any reason. In my opinion, based upon the research I have seen, there is considerable risk to your health taking benzoflavone under the circumstances in which we would normally be using it.

 

[brundel]

So do any of you guys get sore joints on Formeron, any weakness from loss of water? I would think losing that much water would make you constipated as well. Sounds interesting, but I'd like to know more about the side effects before I try it. Is it stronger than Erase?

Creaky joints are frequently reported at higher doses.
If joints begin to ache lower the dose by 50%.
Its not an Apples to Apples comparison with regards to strength. I have never read any studies showing the % of inhibition with regards to erase.
Formestane is about 85%+ inhibition.
In comparison aromasin/exemestane is approx 95%

 

[brundel]

Man my estrogen is always so high i never get to the point of creaky joints.....but I do notice when the water bloat, just that minor layer that blurs your definition, goes away when on forma. As Brundel referenced, its been well documented by mr supps that forma was formerly the prescription AI Lentaron....and due to "loopholes" they are allowed to sell it OTC....the oral absorption was terrible, and it gives anabolic effects at higher dosages (not good overall, and not good for women). Comparisons to arimidex or aromasin are more in line with what it is, forma should make erase look like a bitch by comparison.

This^^^

 

[LMuscle]

This^^^

Awesome

 

[kisaj]

I have no creaky joints, and quite honestly, I don't think it would be fair to compare with Erase. Erase is fine in itself, but when you see the hardening effect, libido increase, and mood uplift, it feels like comparing a script against an OTC- even though they are both OTC. For some reason, I had to take 3-4 Erase to see the water shedding effects like this and then I suffered from the joint issue. I haven't got that from this.

I love waking up in the morning now and seeing veins just popping out from everywhere.

I should add that I just broke the 515 dl barrier I have been on since my blast ended over a month ago. I pulled 535 and this weighing 5lbs less than I did, and adding in 100miles of biking a week.

 

[grega60438]

Brundel: "The studies which we are primarily concerned with, in this instance, are those which state the benzoflavone or it appears a metabolite, in the presence of
elevated estrogen levels, causes aggressive liver tumor formation. The first signs were seen within a few WEEKS!

"The male Syrian golden hamster has been proposed as an animal model, because the combined pretreatment with EE2 and 7,8-benzoflavone (BF) leads to a high incidence of hepatic tumors "


Yikes! you have me concerned about 7,8-benzoflavone. Cancer is not something I want to take a chance on. I am interested in your product and will check it out.

 

[LMuscle]

I just tried some, I'll let you guys know what effects it has on me in the next 8 hours.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I just tried some, I'll let you guys know what effects it has on me in the next 8 hours.

Damn, you get that shyt overnighted or sumptin'???? lol

 

[LMuscle]

Damn, you get that shyt overnighted or sumptin'???? lol

Their shipping is FAST! It's been an hour, no noticeable effects yet..

 

[LMuscle]

How long does it take to notice any effects?

 

[lboston]

I have no creaky joints, and quite honestly, I don't think it would be fair to compare with Erase. Erase is fine in itself, but when you see the hardening effect, libido increase, and mood uplift, it feels like comparing a script against an OTC- even though they are both OTC. For some reason, I had to take 3-4 Erase to see the water shedding effects like this and then I suffered from the joint issue. I haven't got that from this.

I love waking up in the morning now and seeing veins just popping out from everywhere.

I should add that I just broke the 515 dl barrier I have been on since my blast ended over a month ago. I pulled 535 and this weighing 5lbs less than I did, and adding in 100miles of biking a week.

What'd the blast look like? You use an AI?

 

[kisaj]

It's logged in Short Blast log. I did not run an AI and ran a low dose blast at 250 ew. It worked out very well, but I think I had lingering sides from some slight estrogen issues afterwards. Mild enough not to really bother me, but once I zapped it with this, I realized that I was carrying around some water and a little aggression.