2080 test level

[AnabolicHolic]

Got my results back from 12 pumps of androgel with NO dmso or phlogel...2000 fckin 80. is this even humanly possible? they did not have enough blood to process the estrogen level though. I have to go back Monday for that blood draw and #. I will request a second testosterone # just to be sure the sample was not contaminated by the gel. Between me and vida and some others we are getting some insane #'s with this stuff that gets trashed all the time for absorption. I am assuming sky high estrogen levels are the culprit for my libido/erection issues the past month. They simply must be sky high at 2k right?

 

[Montego1]

With no AI probably so.

I'm on TRT at a very high dose and my levels were 1800 with estrogen at 30. That's with .25 mg adex every two days though.

 

[napalm]

Before I got smart, my e2 at 1100 was in the 70's. you can expect a sky fcking high e2 level.

Bro, that high a test level isn't healthy...

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Thanks guys....yeah napalm my intentions were not for a 2k test level....1k yeah. I have some other #'s to list that are out of whack...both good and bad...i believe they are a direct result of that test #. will post up when i get back to work and you guys may have an opinion

 

[napalm]

Thanks guys....yeah napalm my intentions were not for a 2k test level....1k yeah. I have some other #'s to list that are out of whack...both good and bad...i believe they are a direct result of that test #. will post up when i get back to work and you guys may have an opinion

When you go back, have them do a CBC so you can look at your hemoglobin and hematocrit. When my T levels were 1100, I was a walking stroke waiting to happen according to my endo. Hgb was like 20.5 and hct was 61...not cool...

 

[w8lifter]

I had my doc double my test cyp dose to 400 mg e2w, but injected 100 e7d, no AI, and over the course of 2 or so months my estrogen went over the high range. It gave me high psa levels that my endo freaked out and referred me to urologist, who gave me a biopsy. Came back negative but he now controls my trt and won't go any more than 100 mg a week for at least the next 3 months, and then we'll revisit.
So be careful going high, but if u do and use AI u must go small dose and work up. I used anastrozole once at .25 eod and had the worst golfers elbow. At 100 mg e7d I won't need AI, do I think the best test dose is one where u don't need AI.
Good luck.

 

[napalm]

^^^ my life's focus now is to educate trt newbs.!

When DONE RIGHT, an ai is not necessary...

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Hdl 36 (>39)
ldl 115 (0-99)
bun 22 (9-20)
alkaline phosphate 30 (44-102)
alt 46 (0-44)
hematocrit 51.4 (37.5-51)

I'm aware that high test levels adversely affect hdl/ldl ratio and of course RBC levels....but liver values as well ?? i haven't been on a methyl in months so i guess its the test despite it being topical.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

When you go back, have them do a CBC so you can look at your hemoglobin and hematocrit. When my T levels were 1100, I was a walking stroke waiting to happen according to my endo. Hgb was like 20.5 and hct was 61...not cool...

Ok add in hemoglobin!

17.0 (12.6-17.7)

wasn't flagged high....just made it in under lol. All my flags were for barely above high for the most part.

 

[w8lifter]

U got big buns! Sorry, couldn't resist. I too had similar numbers as a result of high test and est. Threw everything out of whack.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

U got big buns! Sorry, couldn't resist. I too had similar numbers as a result of high test and est. Threw everything out of whack.

Yeah I'll adjust my androgel dosage and everything should fall into place. Gonna continue 12 pumps for the weekend to get a retest of test and an accurate estrogen level. Monday I'll start on half dosage.

 

[w8lifter]

Curious, any reason u prefer androgel over other gels, like Testim?

 

[napalm]

Hdl 36 (>39)
ldl 115 (0-99)
bun 22 (9-20)
alkaline phosphate 30 (44-102)
alt 46 (0-44)
hematocrit 51.4 (37.5-51)

I'm aware that high test levels adversely affect hdl/ldl ratio and of course RBC levels....but liver values as well ?? i haven't been on a methyl in months so i guess its the test despite it being topical.

Wow, lucky bastard w the hct and hgb. Those were the two i was worried about. Alt is borderline high, at other labs it would prolly be high normal. LDL is fine, I report quality measures for 2400 physicians, 115 is fine. Ideally below 100, but don't worry about it. Bun is also borderline. I wouldn't assume the alk phos and alt is from the test. The methyl's you used could have easily caused some damage, and its still affecting your liver. Those things are terrible.

All in all, not bad...

 

[napalm]

Why not just inject?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I had my doc double my test cyp dose to 400 mg e2w, but injected 100 e7d, no AI, and over the course of 2 or so months my estrogen went over the high range. It gave me high psa levels that my endo freaked out and referred me to urologist, who gave me a biopsy. Came back negative but he now controls my trt and won't go any more than 100 mg a week for at least the next 3 months, and then we'll revisit.
So be careful going high, but if u do and use AI u must go small dose and work up. I used anastrozole once at .25 eod and had the worst golfers elbow. At 100 mg e7d I won't need AI, do I think the best test dose is one where u don't need AI.
Good luck.

Also my arimidex is RC (MP caps) so god only knows if its legit....I've ranted on RC before so you know my position on that. Maybe if Im sky high i can strongarm him into some short term arimidex or aromasin. I'll flip out and they'll capitulate or I'll do like hulk or thing and SMASH!!! LOL

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Curious, any reason u prefer androgel over other gels, like Testim?

Not sure? doc is on testim and keeps suggesting it...but i started on androgel so i guess Im a creature of habit? i know i hate change lol for whatever reason.

 

[w8lifter]

I had used testim as part of my protocol, along with injections, and my endo asked why not androgel and seemed to be "pushing"it as if some kind of promo going on. Several times she kept asking if I wanted to try androgel instead. Not Axleron (AxleRipOff if u ask me) or any other gel, only Androgel. Odd.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Wow, lucky bastard w the hct and hgb. Those were the two i was worried about. Alt is borderline high, at other labs it would prolly be high normal. LDL is fine, I report quality measures for 2400 physicians, 115 is fine. Ideally below 100, but don't worry about it. Bun is also borderline. I wouldn't assume the alk phos and alt is from the test. The methyl's you used could have easily caused some damage, and its still affecting your liver. Those things are terrible.

All in all, not bad...

Oh good thanks....i know my results are always perfect...so i know it will level off if i get my test level in check. But yeah residual effects of the SD maybe in regards to the liver values. As far as injecting goes doc won't approve it.....he would now though since we have a closer relationship due to more frequent contact since I've been on trt with him. I hate injecting though...i just did it with deca but i despise it for some reason so i never push the issue.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I had used testim as part of my protocol, along with injections, and my endo asked why not androgel and seemed to be "pushing"it as if some kind of promo going on. Several times she kept asking if I wanted to try androgel instead. Not Axleron (AxleRipOff if u ask me) or any other gel, only Androgel. Odd.

I think they get better kickbacks from Abbott lol...my GP is on testim like i was saying so he is partial to that brand...but his office prefers androgel.

 

[rfarns01]

Ok add in hemoglobin!

17.0 (12.6-17.7)

wasn't flagged high....just made it in under lol. All my flags were for barely above high for the most part.

Go give a pint of blood will help take care of that slightly high hct, not too bad though, how was your hydration before the blood work?

 

[rfarns01]

I think they get better kickbacks from Abbott lol...my GP is on testim like i was saying so he is partial to that brand...but his office prefers androgel.

Problem with testim is that the smell attracts older fat women, plus its sticky. But absorption is better than the rest so you have to pick your poison.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Problem with testim is that the smell attracts older fat women, plus its sticky. But absorption is better than the rest so you have to pick your poison.

LOL my doc is like 70 or so, that is probably why he is on that stuff

But I set up an estrogen plus re-test of testosterone appt. for Monday, just to be sure. I will not apply on my arms saturday and sunday, wrists I must use to spread it out but......and I will wash my arms thoroughly (I did this on last Monday as well, but maybe I fcked up, who knows). I just can't believe you can get to 2000+ on androgel of ANY amount of pumps w/o DMSO or phlogel. I will say I am on 5 pumps of transaderm, so maybe that DHEA and Pregnenolone is bumping up the testosterone total #....just can't see it having that much of an effect, I assume (using my 687 # from 8 pumps) that I'd be 1,000-1,150 max on 12 pumps....but I tested w/o DHEA/Preg for the 687 test, this time I was on full blown DHEA/Preg. Not sure how badly that is skewing my #.

 

[ELROCK]

Damn crazy high T numbers! But your other bloodwork numbers really don't seem bad. Keep us posted bro.

What happened with the Phlojel? I thought you were running that with your Androgel?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Damn crazy high T numbers! But your other bloodwork numbers really don't seem bad. Keep us posted bro.

What happened with the Phlojel? I thought you were running that with your Androgel?

Whats up Rock.....yeah I got retested to be sure, and they said i was at 2500 for the love of God. It keeps getting worse , and my estrogen was at 165. I've cut my androgel dosage in half, and will continue with the DHEA/Preg. I've added in MP 1mg arimidex EOD (so .5 ED, but they are caps so.....). I HOPE the RC stuff is legit, everybody knows I despise RC ancillaries. I'm going down in person to the GP's office in the morning to demand he gets off his ass and prescribe me some aromasin....or at the least arimidex....he simply has to address this issue. But me and Vida have been going back and forth with this US distributor of phlogel...he's been out of stock for a MONTH....so I have not had access to phlogel for a month, he has been promising to ship forever. I can't imagine what my #'s would have been on phlogel? I shudder to think it I'm getting bloods similar to a guy on 500mg+ of test per week. I suppose it was best that I was not able to get that jar of phlogel......but yeah, everything else looks solid for a guy in the 2,000's with equally high estrogen....things should go back to optimal when I reduce the androgel and continue on an AI......I hope.....

 

[PaulBlack]

Got my results back from 12 pumps of androgel with NO dmso or phlogel.

Maybe I am interpreting this wrong but, can I ask if this was a single dosage or your weeks worth?
I admit I am not boned up on TRT, Androgel and Testim much.

 

[napalm]

Dude, wtf? Get off the gel and start injecting.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Maybe I am interpreting this wrong but, can I ask if this was a single dosage or your weeks worth?
I admit I am not boned up on TRT, Androgel and Testim much.

No 12 pumps per day.....8 is the usual sweet spot and max dosage prescribed for androgel (although people have been prescribed 10-12 from what I've read), and that is where I am at, but I always have extra--enough for 10-12 pumps a day easy. I dialed it back to 8 pumps now though. maybe go for 6 if I am still too high at the end of the month.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Dude, wtf? Get off the gel and start injecting.

I knew you'd be pissed I just need to find a protocol between the DHEA and the androgel where I can be around 1,000 give or take 100. I feel if I cut dosage in half I will be in the low 1,000's.....but we shall see.

 

[napalm]

I knew you'd be pissed I just need to find a protocol between the DHEA and the androgel where I can be around 1,000 give or take 100. I feel if I cut dosage in half I will be in the low 1,000's.....but we shall see.

My concern is that you won't be able to dial things in w the gel, too inexact. With a syringe, I always know how much goes in...

 

[AnabolicHolic]

My concern is that you won't be able to dial things in w the gel, too inexact. With a syringe, I always know how much goes in...

Tell me about it.....I believe its my playing with the timing (twice per day dosing) and of course upping the dosage...plus applying DHEA/Preg in addition (I stopped the DHEA when I tested the last two times so the doc would not be alarmed)....plus I do use DHT gel as well on my gyno (not sure if DHT can convert to test? I thought it was a one way street there with DHT but....). So I'm taking a lot of things that can convert to test all at once. I'm halving everything, or at least 2/3ing everything (6-8 pumps androgel as opposed to 12, 3 pumps transaderm as opposed to 5, and 2-3 fingertips of andractim as opposed to 4).

 

[BBB]

With you test being so high DHEA will convert to other things, like estrogen. I read where one persons test was 1300 on only two pumps of AndroGel. It turns out that he was rubbing it on his inner arms and then have blood drawing from that same area. This apparently skews the results. He was also being tested about an hour after application. Test levels peak shortly after application so it's better to wait until later in the day.

P.S. How can you afford AndroGel at 12 pumps/day?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

With you test being so high DHEA will convert to other things, like estrogen. I read where one persons test was 1300 on only two pumps of AndroGel. It turns out that he was rubbing it on his inner arms and then have blood drawing from that same area. This apparently skews the results. He was also being tested about an hour after application. Test levels peak shortly after application so it's better to wait until later in the day.

P.S. How can you afford AndroGel at 12 pumps/day?

I tested 10-13 hours post application....so its definitely not that. i made sure the second test that i did not apply to my arms whatsoever for ~72 hours and i swabbed the area well with alcohol all weekend. So im fairly certain its not that either ....but the area could be saturated? not sure. But my insurance covers the 8 pumps androgel....and i can refill every 23 days = mucho extra pumps.

 

[napalm]

More is not better, better is better...

 

[AnabolicHolic]

More is not better, better is better...

Hey it's free and i was at 687 on 8 pumps so one would assume 12 pumps = ~1,000. i guess the DHEA doubles it??? lol

 

[AnabolicHolic]

OK.
"Total estrogens" 165 (40-115 Pg/Ml) HIGH
Progesterone 1.6 (.2-1.4 Ng/Ml) HIGH
Prolactin 7.2 (4-15.2 Ng/Ml)

And I thought prolactin was the problem I had to get an appt with an endo since the GP cried he would lose his license for prescribing arimidex to a TRT patient lol I demanded a referral to an endo so he was happy to give it to me this time. Is my prolactin too high? seems above the middle.....and progesterone, is that something I should be concerned about? Not so familiar with progesterone.

 

[BBB]

I apply progesterone cream daily. It's good for both men and women. High estro especially E2 is a big problem. It's pretty well been confirmed that it is the primary cause of prostate cancer in men and breast cancer in women.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I apply progesterone cream daily. It's good for both men and women. High estro especially E2 is a big problem. It's pretty well been confirmed that it is the primary cause of prostate cancer in men and breast cancer in women.

yeah progesterone never seems to be mentioned as an issue....but my prostate is swollen ....one of my many indicators of high estrogen and test

 

[napalm]

but my prostate is swollen

Not cool, what's your psa?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Not cool, what's your psa?

Idk ....id venture a guess......HIGH??? lol. I don't recall seeing it listed....but for a forty year old man it should be....will check when i get home....cell phone won't open that file for some reason.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

No PSA, and he even mentioned it last year and "checked my prostate" for me .....I have some PSA kits laying around here from my previous andractim orders....never used them, not sure how accurate they are.

 

[napalm]

No PSA, and he even mentioned it last year and "checked my prostate" for me .....I have some PSA kits laying around here from my previous andractim orders....never used them, not sure how accurate they are.

Give it a whirl, if its high on that test, off to the urologist. when he draws the psa and its high,his first course if action will be to stop your trt...

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Give it a whirl, if its high on that test, off to the urologist. when he draws the psa and its high,his first course if action will be to stop your trt...

Yeah I won't be testing for that at the doctors office I'm too smart for that. If they run the PSA test then fine, but I would never suggest that they do while at 2K test levels at least. I'm usually fine, on DHT gear even, as far as PSA goes. But I know estrogen/test and PSA will be high at this point since everything is in the stratosphere now. First order of business at the endo on Tuesday is to get a script for some arimidex.....also I will ask if I can get on 70-100mg test per week, injectable. I will then probably use 50-70mg once per week along with 4 pumps of androgel per day to keep me steady (I'll stay on the androgel at the GP, payed by my insurance, and I'll pay for the cyp out of my pocket if need be). I really want to use part cypionate and part androgel....I think both offer benefits the other does not. So, for the time being I am taking 1mg arimidex EOD.....you think that is adequate for my insane levels? Not even sure if its legit, its RC....MP research from before they got popped.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Test said negative for PSA....but I wasn't able to get much blood....the pad was wet with blood, but not saturated by any measure. Did come up strong negative though.

 

[napalm]

Test said negative for PSA....but I wasn't able to get much blood....the pad was wet with blood, but not saturated by any measure. Did come up strong negative though.

Bro, if it was me, in a couple weeks - after that test level comes down, I'd be getting a psa done. If it were test cyp, I could tell you when you'd be in range and how much of a dose to take while the level is coming down. I just don't know enough about the pharmacology of gel...

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Bro, if it was me, in a couple weeks - after that test level comes down, I'd be getting a psa done. If it were test cyp, I could tell you when you'd be in range and how much of a dose to take while the level is coming down. I just don't know enough about the pharmacology of gel...

I will, I am going to use PSA as a possible concern in regards to getting that estrogen down with some arimidex (among many other concerns with high test/estrogen of course) ....so I can always say give me a month or so on an AI and a reduced dose of androgel, and we retest test/estrogen/psa etc. I was scheduled with a lady endo.....but I think the quick visit I requested is a man. That would have been weird to see a female about TRT....both of my options out where I live were females for some reason.

 

[napalm]

Dude, no doctor is going to prescribe you a female cancer drug. Look to the RC's...

EDIT: unless you go to an anti aging clinic...

 

[jerrysiii]

I'm on a TRT compound cream. My doc prescribed 0.5 adex e3d. Did not even ask. This was standard and was reduced to 0.3 e3d after first round of blood work. E3 now 18-21 range.

 

[jerrysiii]

If you're having trouble getting a script, there are done good OTC AIs such as Erase. Some have success with just I3C. I'd try two original Erase with one NOW brand I3C E2D

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I'm on a TRT compound cream. My doc prescribed 0.5 adex e3d. Did not even ask. This was standard and was reduced to 0.3 e3d after first round of blood work. E3 now 18-21 range.

I think this dosing protocol is what id need....i have naturally high estrogen and trt only serves to aggravate it. Erase? I've heard too many stories of how ineffective it is...esp for a guy with a 165 level lol

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Dude, no doctor is going to prescribe you a female cancer drug. Look to the RC's...

EDIT: unless you go to an anti aging clinic...

I firmly believe endos should be out of the dark ages by now and realize there are uses for rx drugs other than the indicated use. If not I'll call each and every endo until i find one who understands this concept! This guy here on Tuesday I'll give a chance but I'll call and ask before making any further appointments and wasting my time.