Testosterone came back "normal"....plz help...17 years old

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    Testosterone came back "normal"....plz help...17 years old


    Alright guys I'm gonna make this as blunt and short as I can.....

    So about 13 months ago I took an over the counter andro bodybuilding product (incredibly irresponsible and stupid, I know). I ran it with no PCT (besides an over the counter AI and test booster) and just a few weeks after taking the product, my sex drive vanished. Completely. Not only did my sex drive vanish, but I lost a majority of my motivation, couldn't concentrate, got depressed and felt like absolute $hit all day long. To put simply, I became a lifeless shell of what I once was.

    I mean I used to be a confident, energetic, happy and according to my peers, hilarious young man who screwed up royally by taking this supplement. Don't ask me why, but I let things go on this way for abut a year which brings us up to today.....

    So I got some bloodwork back from the doc yesterday and I was pretty confident my testosterone and many of my other sex hormones would come back low. We got LH, FSH, TSH, Testosterone and Free Testosterone all tested (should have gotten estrogen/cort, I know).

    But here's the deal.....

    Although my bloodwork came back "normal" it doesn't change the fact that I feel like absolute $hit all day long. My problems BEGAN immediately after taking this andro product so I'm 99.7% positive this is what caused I'm also confident it must be something hormone related. After all, my PCT sucked and I was incredibly stupid for running a cycle of a prohormone at the age of 16 - might have screwed up my endocrine system for life.

    On top of all this, I've been on a keto (high fat, low carb) diet for the past 6 months with no improvement in sex drive whatsoever. Keto is known to increase sex drive because it's high in fat and more fat=more testosterone. I also lift like a beast 4 times per week and find it incredibly difficult to build muscle/get stronger. In fact, I haven't gained a single rep on my bench in over 4 months.

    Anyway, please see my bloodwork below. I've looked up some of the "normal" ranges for these hormones and it seems that it's possible to still experience side effects even if they come back "normal". Many other people across the boards report the same thing and what really concerns me is my free testosterone...."normal" is between 9-30ng/dl if I'm not mistaken but mine came back 11.4 (on the very low end). The other thing that concerns me is my total testosterone, which came back 480ng/dl. For 17 years old, I have a feeling my total T should be MUCH higher than this (and I'm sure many of you would agree). Sure it might be "normal" - for an 85 year old man that is!

    What do you guys think I should do? I can't keep living like this.....I'm almost positive it's hormone related but many doctors these days have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to hormones and simply go by the typical reference ranges. They pay no attention to what side effects you may be experiencing and will write you off if your blood work comes back ANYWHERE in the "normal" range. This pisses me off to no end. I want my life back and I want it back now. If you guys have any advice for me right now I would greatly appreciate it.

    Testosterone: 480ng/dl
    Free Testosterone: 11.4ng/dl
    LH: 4.0 (not sure what unit measured in)
    FSH: 1.5 (not sure what unit measured in)
    TSH: 4.010 (not sure what unit measured in)

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    It probably is a drop in T levels at 17..Go pick up some Vitamin D get some extra sun watch some well your 17 watch some bikini videos and eat healthy fats BP, Olive Oil, Fish oil, Almonds.<not all at once.. It's more then likely just a waiting game for you now. So get some exercise chase some ass and you will be back to normal in a few months. Oh and get the hell off the keto diet dude 6 months!! wtf change things up switch to carb cycling something that is probably why you have no energy **** eat a cheat meal or 20.

    And above all else don't cycle until your 22 or older let your hormones regulate and cross your fingers you didn't really screw yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    It probably is a drop in T levels at 17..Go pick up some Vitamin D get some extra sun watch some well your 17 watch some bikini videos and eat healthy fats BP, Olive Oil, Fish oil, Almonds.<not all at once.. It's more then likely just a waiting game for you now. So get some exercise chase some ass and you will be back to normal in a few months. Oh and get the hell off the keto diet dude 6 months!! wtf change things up switch to carb cycling something that is probably why you have no energy **** eat a cheat meal or 20.

    And above all else don't cycle until your 22 or older let your hormones regulate and cross your fingers you didn't really screw yourself.
    See that's the thing. I already eat a high fat diet, I have a job where I'm forced to work outside at least 2 hours every day and anytime I watch porn/get it off things only seem to get worse.

    I appreciate the advice, but I don't think you understand where I'm coming from here. I used to be the exact polar OPPOSITE of what I am now. I have no sex drive/no motivation/can't concentrate/low self esteem and it all began after I took this andro product.

    My dad talked to my doc a couple of hours ago and he's gonna recommend me to an endo. What do you think I should tell the endo? Should I just slam a stack of scientific documents in his face or what? Also, what do you think about TRT at my age? Serious question - At this point I'd rather be on TRT the rest of my life than live another day like this. It sucks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by npakergy15 View Post
    See that's the thing. I already eat a high fat diet, I have a job where I'm forced to work outside at least 2 hours every day and anytime I watch porn/get it off things only seem to get worse.

    I appreciate the advice, but I don't think you understand where I'm coming from here. I used to be the exact polar OPPOSITE of what I am now. I have no sex drive/no motivation/can't concentrate/low self esteem and it all began after I took this andro product.

    My dad talked to my doc a couple of hours ago and he's gonna recommend me to an endo. What do you think I should tell the endo? Should I just slam a stack of scientific documents in his face or what? Also, what do you think about TRT at my age? Serious question - At this point I'd rather be on TRT the rest of my life than live another day like this. It sucks.
    You will not get TRT at 17 and coming from someone on TRT I know exactly how you feel and how you used to feel..I destroyed my test levels in a different way with the same net results. You sound like your in for a ride but it is what it is your 17 you will more then likely bounce back with enough time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    You will not get TRT at 17 and coming from someone on TRT I know exactly how you feel and how you used to feel..I destroyed my test levels in a different way with the same net results. You sound like your in for a ride but it is what it is your 17 you will more then likely bounce back with enough time.
    I hope your right. I find it sad they don't offer this to people under the age of 18. I mean, hey, I understand us teens aren't mature sometimes and we tend to abuse things (I'm a perfect example), but under the direct supervision of a doctor I don't see the risk. Are you sure there aren't any "special circumstances" or is there some law out there that says "teens aren't allowed to have trt".
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    Are you sure you just aren't in an over trained state? I mean if all your hormone levels are normal and that's how your feeling to me those are all the hallmarks of overtraining. When was the last time you took s break from training and physical activity? Also your going low carb, so that's automatically going to make your body more tired. Because your depriving your body of an important source of energy.

    If I were you I would stop training for about a month, eat a clean regular diet of a minimum of 250-300 g carbs. Stop all supplementation and let your body sort itself out.

    Hope it gets better for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigcountry08 View Post
    Are you sure you just aren't in an over trained state? I mean if all your hormone levels are normal and that's how your feeling to me those are all the hallmarks of overtraining. When was the last time you took s break from training and physical activity? Also your going low carb, so that's automatically going to make your body more tired. Because your depriving your body of an important source of energy.

    If I were you I would stop training for about a month, eat a clean regular diet of a minimum of 250-300 g carbs. Stop all supplementation and let your body sort itself out.

    Hope it gets better for you.
    Thanks BigCountry, I hope so to.

    First off, I take rest week every 12 weeks to ensure I'm not overtraining. I don't think this could be the case because I also make sure I'm never spending more than 45 minutes in the gym per session.

    About the low carb diet. To be honest, I've been doing this for the past 6 months with a cheat meal/carb up once per week and I must say - I've never experienced this much energy in my life (but that's not to negate the fact that I still suffer from lack of energy because of what I'm going through, but it's gotten better since I've been on low carb). Pretty sure its due to my body using an alternative energy source (ketones) instead of glucose for fuel.

    You mentioned supplementation. I haven't taken any supplements in over a year and I will NEVER take an over the counter prohormone again. If you remember, I mentioned that my problems began right after I got done taking the prohormone. Was it just a coincidence or what? I mean I didn't run a proper PCT, but my libido suddenly vanished and I was still hitting the gym hard/watching my diet closely. Only this time, I was seeing no gains at all and was simply getting fat!

    That's another thing: I store fat now around my hips and thigs like a girl would. Never used to do this. In addition, I've always had mild gyno, but it's gotten worse lately.

    Anyway, I'm gonna keep you guys posted on how things go. I'm honestly praying for trt because at this point it's been over a year and I've seen no improvement in my symptoms whatsoever. I just hope the endo agrees with me, even though I'm only 17.
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    Just out of curiosity do you know what the name of the supplement is that you were taking?
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    You need to do a PCT with clomid and an AI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille View Post
    You need to do a PCT with clomid and an AI.
    Yeah, I would have to agree, it's weird that all his levels are normal though.

    Did the doctor just tell you the test levels were normal, or did he give you the results on paper? By listening to a lot of guys on here, a lot of doctors don't really see low t as a huge issue. Especially for a 16-17 year old kid.
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    And we all over looked at simple factor chasing hormone levels as usually...The thyroid is crying for help.....Hes clinically hypothyroid with TSH or has possible hashimotos. Adrenals are probably shot, and sleeping and eating like crap being a normal 17 year old.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    Just out of curiosity do you know what the name of the supplement is that you were taking?
    The supplement was AMF (alpha male formulations) Mutant Plexx. After doing more research on it, I've come to find that it's an extremely potent prohormone and probably caused a severe shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by vassille View Post
    You need to do a PCT with clomid and an AI.
    I know I do. But I can't get access to clomid without a doctors perscription or my other option is to go to one of those shady Indian clomid sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigcountry08 View Post
    Yeah, I would have to agree, it's weird that all his levels are normal though.

    Did the doctor just tell you the test levels were normal, or did he give you the results on paper? By listening to a lot of guys on here, a lot of doctors don't really see low t as a huge issue. Especially for a 16-17 year old kid.
    That's what frustrates the hell out of me! LabCorp's ranges for "normal" baseline testosterone levels are between 348-1197 and I came back at 480, which means I'm on the very low end. They don't even take age into consideration. For somebody my age, this should not be.

    I actually called the doctors office and got the bloodwork from the secretary/nurse. She must have looked it up or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    And we all over looked at simple factor chasing hormone levels as usually...The thyroid is crying for help.....Hes clinically hypothyroid with TSH or has possible hashimotos. Adrenals are probably shot, and sleeping and eating like crap being a normal 17 year old.
    How do I improve my thyroid function? I consider myself a pretty healthy eater compared to most teens and lift like a beast so I think we can rule a crappy diet out of the equation. Maybe my adrenals are shot, idk. But does anyone else agree with me that my testosterone/free testosterone is VERY low for somebody my age? I remember reading somewhere that the normal range for my age is between 800-1400 or something like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by npakergy15 View Post
    Alright guys I'm gonna make this as blunt and short as I can.....

    So about 13 months ago I took an over the counter andro bodybuilding product (incredibly irresponsible and stupid, I know). I ran it with no PCT (besides an over the counter AI and test booster) and just a few weeks after taking the product, my sex drive vanished. Completely. Not only did my sex drive vanish, but I lost a majority of my motivation, couldn't concentrate, got depressed and felt like absolute $hit all day long. To put simply, I became a lifeless shell of what I once was.

    I mean I used to be a confident, energetic, happy and according to my peers, hilarious young man who screwed up royally by taking this supplement. Don't ask me why, but I let things go on this way for abut a year which brings us up to today.....

    So I got some bloodwork back from the doc yesterday and I was pretty confident my testosterone and many of my other sex hormones would come back low. We got LH, FSH, TSH, Testosterone and Free Testosterone all tested (should have gotten estrogen/cort, I know).

    But here's the deal.....

    Although my bloodwork came back "normal" it doesn't change the fact that I feel like absolute $hit all day long. My problems BEGAN immediately after taking this andro product so I'm 99.7% positive this is what caused I'm also confident it must be something hormone related. After all, my PCT sucked and I was incredibly stupid for running a cycle of a prohormone at the age of 16 - might have screwed up my endocrine system for life.

    On top of all this, I've been on a keto (high fat, low carb) diet for the past 6 months with no improvement in sex drive whatsoever. Keto is known to increase sex drive because it's high in fat and more fat=more testosterone. I also lift like a beast 4 times per week and find it incredibly difficult to build muscle/get stronger. In fact, I haven't gained a single rep on my bench in over 4 months.

    Anyway, please see my bloodwork below. I've looked up some of the "normal" ranges for these hormones and it seems that it's possible to still experience side effects even if they come back "normal". Many other people across the boards report the same thing and what really concerns me is my free testosterone...."normal" is between 9-30ng/dl if I'm not mistaken but mine came back 11.4 (on the very low end). The other thing that concerns me is my total testosterone, which came back 480ng/dl. For 17 years old, I have a feeling my total T should be MUCH higher than this (and I'm sure many of you would agree). Sure it might be "normal" - for an 85 year old man that is!

    What do you guys think I should do? I can't keep living like this.....I'm almost positive it's hormone related but many doctors these days have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to hormones and simply go by the typical reference ranges. They pay no attention to what side effects you may be experiencing and will write you off if your blood work comes back ANYWHERE in the "normal" range. This pisses me off to no end. I want my life back and I want it back now. If you guys have any advice for me right now I would greatly appreciate it.

    Testosterone: 480ng/dl
    Free Testosterone: 11.4ng/dl
    LH: 4.0 (not sure what unit measured in)
    FSH: 1.5 (not sure what unit measured in)
    TSH: 4.010 (not sure what unit measured in)
    This kids LH and FSH are hardly normal appears you just need to raise those and get that thyroid checked and I bet you'll be back to normal. So do a pct and thyroid check. Surprised an over the counter product could shut his hpta down. It really should have bounce back by now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfarns01 View Post
    This kids LH and FSH are hardly normal appears you just need to raise those and get that thyroid checked and I bet you'll be back to normal. So do a pct and thyroid check. Surprised an over the counter product could shut his hpta down. It really should have bounce back by now.
    Before I took it, I had no idea how potent it was. Look it up yourself: Mutant Plexx by AMF (alpha male formulations)
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfarns01 View Post
    This kids LH and FSH are hardly normal appears you just need to raise those and get that thyroid checked and I bet you'll be back to normal. So do a pct and thyroid check. Surprised an over the counter product could shut his hpta down. It really should have bounce back by now.
    actually reference range for
    LH is Adult: 1.8-12.0 mIU/L
    FSH is

    • During puberty: 0.3 - 10.0 mIU/ml
    • Adult: 1.5 - 12.4 mIU/ml

    He is in normal range but the low end of normal. The only thing I would even consider other then waiting it out if I was him would be a SERM and the endo just might go that route if he has kept up on the studies of Clomid being used as an alternative to HRT.
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    yes your LH is low and so it's your free test.
    The same place you got the PH try to get something that would reduce estrogen. It needs to be an Aromatose Inhibitor(arimidex like) not a SERM like clomid or nolvadex. Try that. It coould just be that the feedback mechanism is lowering your LH because your body senses high estrogen. THis is the easiest thing to try.
    As for thyroid just leave it alone for now, usually anabolics stresses it so it may come back on it's own once everything else normalizes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by npakergy15 View Post
    Thanks BigCountry, I hope so to.

    First off, I take rest week every 12 weeks to ensure I'm not overtraining. I don't think this could be the case because I also make sure I'm never spending more than 45 minutes in the gym per session.

    About the low carb diet. To be honest, I've been doing this for the past 6 months with a cheat meal/carb up once per week and I must say - I've never experienced this much energy in my life (but that's not to negate the fact that I still suffer from lack of energy because of what I'm going through, but it's gotten better since I've been on low carb). Pretty sure its due to my body using an alternative energy source (ketones) instead of glucose for fuel.

    You mentioned supplementation. I haven't taken any supplements in over a year and I will NEVER take an over the counter prohormone again. If you remember, I mentioned that my problems began right after I got done taking the prohormone. Was it just a coincidence or what? I mean I didn't run a proper PCT, but my libido suddenly vanished and I was still hitting the gym hard/watching my diet closely. Only this time, I was seeing no gains at all and was simply getting fat!

    That's another thing: I store fat now around my hips and thigs like a girl would. Never used to do this. In addition, I've always had mild gyno, but it's gotten worse lately.

    Anyway, I'm gonna keep you guys posted on how things go. I'm honestly praying for trt because at this point it's been over a year and I've seen no improvement in my symptoms whatsoever. I just hope the endo agrees with me, even though I'm only 17.
    your diet seems ok
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    Quote Originally Posted by npakergy15 View Post

    Before I took it, I had no idea how potent it was. Look it up yourself: Mutant Plexx by AMF (alpha male formulations)
    Actually that products a pretty big rip off the only effective dosed steroid in that mix is ultradrol. Which unfortunately for you is one of the harshest on the market. If the mix didn't contain the ultradrol you probably wouldn't have noticed much of anything
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    I call troll
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    The fact that your worried/stressed will make it worse. Even without pct it would be highly unlikley to permanently damage your hpta. It just takes longer to recover without it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigcountry08 View Post
    Actually that products a pretty big rip off the only effective dosed steroid in that mix is ultradrol. Which unfortunately for you is one of the harshest on the market. If the mix didn't contain the ultradrol you probably wouldn't have noticed much of anything
    Yeah but I've definitely learned my lesson, that's forsure.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer7178 View Post
    I call troll
    Do you honestly think I would sit here and write all this, and answer nearly everyones reply if I was a troll? You think I have time for that crap? Give me a break and please leave this thread if you're gonna post ignorant comments like this. You have absolutely no idea of the hell I've been through this past year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jstrong20 View Post
    The fact that your worried/stressed will make it worse. Even without pct it would be highly unlikley to permanently damage your hpta. It just takes longer to recover without it.
    You might have a point about the worrying part. I have been worrying about it the last couple of months but for like the first 8 months I didn't worry at all about it and still experienced the same side effects. Regardless, I think most of us are coming to the conclusion that my numbers are low and need to be checked out by an endo.

    I appreciate the help and advice everyone.
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    I don't think you're a troll and yes mutant plexx is one of those products with like 6 prohormones in it. I'm sure you weren't prepared for it at all. Maybe I missed it but have you told your doctor what you did? This is important but I'm afraid he'll just dismiss as anxiety (something all doctors seem to do these days lol). Things will look up just keep your head up
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    I don't think you're a troll and yes mutant plexx is one of those products with like 6 prohormones in it. I'm sure you weren't prepared for it at all. Maybe I missed it but have you told your doctor what you did? This is important but I'm afraid he'll just dismiss as anxiety (something all doctors seem to do these days lol). Things will look up just keep your head up
    Appreciate the feedback man. Yes! I did tell my doctor that I took an over the counter supplement but he didn't even give me the chance to explain what it was. He just kept rambling on about the dangers of supplements, how they're not regulated by the FDA, blah, blah, blah (like I don't know that now).

    And then he did in fact try and write off my symptoms as "anxiety disorder" or "OCD". To which I responded: "Doc, do you have any idea of the hell I've been through this past year? Do you have any idea what it's like to wake up every morning without wood? Do you know what it's like to coast through life with no enthusiasm/drive/motivation?" I think he got the message loud and clear! Next thing I knew, bloodwork was ordered.

    But I'm definitely gonna tell the endo what I took and gonna try and find some scientific articles/studies about the compounds to support what I'm saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by npakergy15 View Post

    Appreciate the feedback man. Yes! I did tell my doctor that I took an over the counter supplement but he didn't even give me the chance to explain what it was. He just kept rambling on about the dangers of supplements, how they're not regulated by the FDA, blah, blah, blah (like I don't know that now).

    And then he did in fact try and write off my symptoms as "anxiety disorder" or "OCD". To which I responded: "Doc, do you have any idea of the hell I've been through this past year? Do you have any idea what it's like to wake up every morning without wood? Do you know what it's like to coast through life with no enthusiasm/drive/motivation?" I think he got the message loud and clear! Next thing I knew, bloodwork was ordered.

    But I'm definitely gonna tell the endo what I took and gonna try and find some scientific articles/studies about the compounds to support what I'm saying.
    If you go to an endo you shouldn't have to explain to them, just say you took a steroid and it shut you down. It's that easy. You don't have to shed any more light on the situation, the less the general public knows about the still legal pro hormones the better.

    I wish someone would just be smart enough and legalize them, but make it so you have to be 21 or older to buy. So young dummies like you who want to get big cant get a hold of them and ruin your life. I understand you didn't know what you were taking, but that's just crazy, to put something into your body and not know its effects is just foolish. I'm not trying to dog you cause I know this year and a half has definitely taught you a lesson. I'm just saying if there were regulations kids like you wouldn't have to go through crap like this.
    Bigcountry's Getting a little smaller: Epi/Stano Log

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/231194-bigcountrys-getting-little.html
  

  
 

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