How much can you expect your test levels to rise on trt - AnabolicMinds.com

How much can you expect your test levels to rise on trt

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  1. Vinnyboombots's Avatar
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    How much can you expect your test levels to rise on trt


    I know everyone is different and everyone will have somewhat different results. But is there a general average on how much your testosterone levels will rise say with injecting 100mgs a week or 150 or 200?

  2. napalm's Avatar
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    there's a lot of variation, even within one person.

    when i started, i was on 100/week, one injection. first set of labs had me in the mid 400's the day before injection, so endo bumped me up to 150. it was around this time i started reading about more frequent injections, so i divided it up to 75/twice a week. this is where problems started. 3 days after injection i was in the mid 1100's, e2 in the 70's and felt like sh.it. look at me wrong i wanted to throttle you, i was a bloated 214, everything was just s.hit. keep in mind that this was still within normal of the lab i go to.

    so i started reading again and came up with 50 every 4 days and this is working great. my troughs are in the 700's, and peaks i'm guessing around ~1000. e2 is back in the 30's.

    my point is, you have to experiment with dose/frequency. it helps a lot of you have a cool endo like i do. he just lets me do what i want, but let's not get carried away and keep the levels within range. he know's i'm a pl'r, and i've convinced him that i'm not trying to just job the system. it kind of gives me a case of the red ass when guys come in here with questions and they obviously just want to do a perma cycle under the guise of trt with no interest in any labs other than what their T is. you wanna do a cycle, do a cycle, have a f'ing ball. but don't do it and try to call it trt, it makes the rest of us look bad.

    after having low T for so long, i sure the hell ain't going to get greedy when i found a dose that makes me feel better AND still make gains (slowly) at 49.

    good luck...
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    there's a lot of variation, even within one person.

    when i started, i was on 100/week, one injection. first set of labs had me in the mid 400's the day before injection, so endo bumped me up to 150. it was around this time i started reading about more frequent injections, so i divided it up to 75/twice a week. this is where problems started. 3 days after injection i was in the mid 1100's, e2 in the 70's and felt like sh.it. look at me wrong i wanted to throttle you, i was a bloated 214, everything was just s.hit. keep in mind that this was still within normal of the lab i go to.

    so i started reading again and came up with 50 every 4 days and this is working great. my troughs are in the 700's, and peaks i'm guessing around ~1000. e2 is back in the 30's.

    my point is, you have to experiment with dose/frequency. it helps a lot of you have a cool endo like i do. he just lets me do what i want, but let's not get carried away and keep the levels within range. he know's i'm a pl'r, and i've convinced him that i'm not trying to just job the system. it kind of gives me a case of the red ass when guys come in here with questions and they obviously just want to do a perma cycle under the guise of trt with no interest in any labs other than what their T is. you wanna do a cycle, do a cycle, have a f'ing ball. but don't do it and try to call it trt, it makes the rest of us look bad.

    after having low T for so long, i sure the hell ain't going to get greedy when i found a dose that makes me feel better AND still make gains (slowly) at 49.

    good luck...
    Awesome response Bro, It's good to hear from someone who has alot of knowledge on this subject. I've got to ask you this question because the doctor got me on 100mgs a week and i'm going to stick with that for awhile, did you notice any benefit at all when you were injecting 100 mgs a week because lately all the posts i'm reading are saying that weekly injections suck and i don't want to be wasting the next 12 weeks of my life until i see my doc again
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  4. Swanson52's Avatar
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    I followed Napalm's advice, and went to 50mg e4d, and after my last set of labs (yesterday), looks like I'm peaking around 700, valleys are around 600, estradiol stays between 20-25 at all ranges.

    For me, when I get >800 or so I get awful sides; blood pressure issues, hematocrit climbs like crazy, irritable, etc.

    It took me a year to sort it out, and I'm on about 1/2 the dose that I was originally prescribed. Additionally I don't do it for purposes of training; I went in because of fatigue, malaise, loss of libido & depression. If I quit competing & training tomorrow I'd still stay on (prescribed) TRT.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post

    Additionally I don't do it for purposes of training; I went in because of fatigue, malaise, loss of libido & depression. If I quit competing & training tomorrow I'd still stay on (prescribed) TRT.
    This is exactly why i'm on trt Bro I have all of the above symptoms. Can i ask you what your original trt regimen was?
  6. napalm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnyboombots View Post
    Awesome response Bro, It's good to hear from someone who has alot of knowledge on this subject. I've got to ask you this question because the doctor got me on 100mgs a week and i'm going to stick with that for awhile, did you notice any benefit at all when you were injecting 100 mgs a week because lately all the posts i'm reading are saying that weekly injections suck and i don't want to be wasting the next 12 weeks of my life until i see my doc again
    Yeah Vinny, I did notice an effect on mood, etc.. on 100/week for the first few days. The closer to injection, the old symptoms came back. That's the beauty of more frequent injections, you never bottom out. I'd talk to your doc, if he believes you and him are on the same team, he might let you experiment. If not, just time everything so that it appears that you're taking it as prescribed. It can be done easily.

    Kisaj has some good posts on this topic...
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    Started at 140mg e7d, worked up to 200mg e7d, but on all doses by day 7 I was bottomed out & miserable. This is all with test cyp.

    My PCP has a hard time believing I'm ok with injecting e4d, but the results are undeniable. Honestly, with ventrogluteal injects I don't feel it at all, and it's 3 minutes out of my day. BFD.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
  8. Vinnyboombots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post

    Yeah Vinny, I did notice an effect on mood, etc.. on 100/week for the first few days. The closer to injection, the old symptoms came back. That's the beauty of more frequent injections, you never bottom out. I'd talk to your doc, if he believes you and him are on the same team, he might let you experiment. If not, just time everything so that it appears that you're taking it as prescribed. It can be done easily.

    Kisaj has some good posts on this topic...
    No my doctor is really open minded and believes in the the benefits of trt. I'm not scheduled to see him for a couple of months maybe I'll call for an appointment sooner.
  9. Vinnyboombots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post

    Yeah Vinny, I did notice an effect on mood, etc.. on 100/week for the first few days. The closer to injection, the old symptoms came back. That's the beauty of more frequent injections, you never bottom out. I'd talk to your doc, if he believes you and him are on the same team, he might let you experiment. If not, just time everything so that it appears that you're taking it as prescribed. It can be done easily.

    Kisaj has some good posts on this topic...
    Last time I was there he offered to give ne a script for Hcg but I felt it was kind of expensive so he told me that I could think about it, what are your thoughts on hcg Napalm?
  10. Vinnyboombots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    Started at 140mg e7d, worked up to 200mg e7d, but on all doses by day 7 I was bottomed out & miserable. This is all with test cyp.

    My PCP has a hard time believing I'm ok with injecting e4d, but the results are undeniable. Honestly, with ventrogluteal injects I don't feel it at all, and it's 3 minutes out of my day. BFD.
    Damn 200mgs a week that's a hefty trt dose!! almost a weaker cycle ventrogluteal is that a fancy way to say that you inject into your glutes. Lol
  11. Swanson52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnyboombots View Post
    Damn 200mgs a week that's a hefty trt dose!! almost a weaker cycle ventrogluteal is that a fancy way to say that you inject into your glutes. Lol
    They were thinking a higher dose would be more acceptable to me than more frequent injections.

    Ventrogluteal are injections into the gluteus medius, like so-



    Hand to God, can't even feel them.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
  12. Vinnyboombots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post

    They were thinking a higher dose would be more acceptable to me than more frequent injections.

    Ventrogluteal are injections into the gluteus medius, like so-

    Hand to God, can't even feel them.
    If we're all gonna do this for life then the least amount of pain and scar tissue is definitely key!! What gauge needle do you use??
  13. Swanson52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnyboombots View Post
    If we're all gonna do this for life then the least amount of pain and scar tissue is definitely key!! What gauge needle do you use??
    23 or 25x1.5" depending on what Walgreens has in stock. I just started buying by the 100 per box so i dont run out. I prefer the 25 though.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
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    I've been on TRT for about 2 1/2 years and went like this:

    200mg e2w- mean and irritable days 2-5, better 6-8, let down 8-13. Libido high, though. Strength and size increased a bit.

    200mg ew- mean and irritable days 2-5, better 6th, and then I started all over. Gained water weight and generally did not feel good. Libido was fading, but size and strength went up considerably. Neck and wrists noticeably bigger. Put on about 10lbs in 2 months with no effort.

    150 ew- pretty good 3-6, but did have a little agitation the days after injection. Libido high, strength high, gains easy to keep.

    100 ew- pretty good throughout, but I noticed that I started to drop a little bit on day 6. Energy was just a little down and mind was a little foggy in comparison to days leading up. Same as 150, but with the slight fade at the end.

    50e3d- perfect, prefect, perfect. Feel great, libido completely normal, and generally feel like a powerhouse.

    I am on a blast right now at 125mg e3d and I actually feel really good, save for some slight aggression that I don't care for because it affects my demeanor in everyday situations. Making pretty big gains in a short period, but I am looking forward to going back to a more relaxed mind set in the next 3 weeks when this is done.

    Pull w/ 18g and inject w/ 25g into glute subq and painless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post

    23 or 25x1.5" depending on what Walgreens has in stock. I just started buying by the 100 per box so i dont run out. I prefer the 25 though.
    Yea 25 does make a big difference
  16. napalm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnyboombots View Post
    what are your thoughts on hcg Napalm?
    That all depends on if you want kids. Some docs will try a clomid/hcg combo in an attempt to restart a guy who wants to have kids. I've seen data both ways on efficacy, so the jury is still out.

    Some guys just get weirded out when their boys shrink. Me, I give zero fcks.

    I have no use for it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I've been on TRT for about 2 1/2 years and went like this: 200mg e2w- mean and irritable days 2-5, better 6-8, let down 8-13. Libido high, though. Strength and size increased a bit.200mg ew- mean and irritable days 2-5, better 6th, and then I started all over. Gained water weight and generally did not feel good. Libido was fading, but size and strength went up considerably. Neck and wrists noticeably bigger. Put on about 10lbs in 2 months with no effort.150 ew- pretty good 3-6, but did have a little agitation the days after injection. Libido high, strength high, gains easy to keep.100 ew- pretty good throughout, but I noticed that I started to drop a little bit on day 6. Energy was just a little down and mind was a little foggy in comparison to days leading up. Same as 150, but with the slight fade at the end.50e3d- perfect, prefect, perfect. Feel great, libido completely normal, and generally feel like a powerhouse. I am on a blast right now at 125mg e3d and I actually feel really good, save for some slight aggression that I don't care for because it affects my demeanor in everyday situations. Making pretty big gains in a short period, but I am looking forward to going back to a more relaxed mind set in the next 3 weeks when this is done.Pull w/ 18g and inject w/ 25g into glute subq and painless.
    That is an awesome breakdown thank you..Looks like it's 50 mgs every 3 days for the win. I keep reading that it's going to be different for everyone so do you think i should just stick with the 100 a week for a little bit to see if it fits me? Or does the once a week dosing almost never work?
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    That all depends on if you want kids. Some docs will try a clomid/hcg combo in an attempt to restart a guy who wants to have kids. I've seen data both ways on efficacy, so the jury is still out.Some guys just get weirded out when their boys shrink. Me, I give zero fcks. I have no use for it...
    No i'm done having kids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnyboombots View Post
    That is an awesome breakdown thank you..Looks like it's 50 mgs every 3 days for the win. I keep reading that it's going to be different for everyone so do you think i should just stick with the 100 a week for a little bit to see if it fits me? Or does the once a week dosing almost never work?
    You have to find what works for you. It is basically trial and error until you dial it in.

    IMO, don't mix in hcg. It raises e2, increases water gain, and is pointless if you aren't vain about losing 1/3 of your nut size. You say you are done having kids, so skip it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    You have to find what works for you. It is basically trial and error until you dial it in. IMO, don't mix in hcg. It raises e2, increases water gain, and is pointless if you aren't vain about losing 1/3 of your nut size. You say you are done having kids, so skip it.
    Yea if it's going to add to the problem then i'm all set. There's only one woman that see's my nuts anyway and she hasn't whipped out a ruler yet. Lol
  21. FireRescue's Avatar
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    For you guys doing more frequent injects, do you use and AI or have you been able to reduce you AI dosage going more frequent lower dosages. Chrisler states many of his patients can go off their AI going to lower, more frequent, subQ injects.
  22. napalm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post
    For you guys doing more frequent injects, do you use and AI or have you been able to reduce you AI dosage going more frequent lower dosages. Chrisler states many of his patients can go off their AI going to lower, more frequent, subQ injects.
    If you do it right, you don't need an ai.

    And I saw crisler's vid. I've been kicking around sub q but haven't decided yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post

    If you do it right, you don't need an ai.

    And I saw crisler's vid. I've been kicking around sub q but haven't decided yet.
    My doctor hasn't even mentioned an ai yet. It doesn't really matter if need be I have access to them.
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    No AI here. All I've ever needed/used is my cyp. Everything else stays perfectly normal.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
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    Thanks for the replies. You are also not using HCG which can have an effect on e2. I do not think Chrisler believes in dropping the HCG.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post
    Thanks for the replies. You are also not using HCG which can have an effect on e2. I do not think Chrisler believes in dropping the HCG.
    Yea from everything i've read that's the main thing i keep hearing. "Forget about hcg"
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    No AI here. I've been doing sub q for about a year and half. No need to drill into that muscle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    No AI here. I've been doing sub q for about a year and half. No need to drill into that muscle.
    It absorbs just as well? It would suck to end up with some kind of abscess.
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    I don't do things for a year and a half that don't work. Just sayin..
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I don't do things for a year and a half that don't work. Just sayin..
    Gotcha. SQ Definitely sounds less painful, my quad was a little sore the day after. And it probably reduces scar tissue.
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    I've been doing 30mg eod IM quad with 5/8" needles for the past month, everything is great.
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    when I started trt about 3 years ago my regimen was 100mg/e10. Yes every 10 days. My peak was a little over 1000 and by day 10 I was right under 500. honestly I never experienced any "roller coaster" of any kind. I'm now (past 2 months) doing 100mg/e7 just because it's easier for me to remember when to inject.

    btw, like kisaj and lexmusle I'm also doing sub q. 30g 1/2cc 1/2 inch in the thigh..
  33. pcn
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    Swanson52, do you self inject using ventrogluteal? I'm trying to figure out if this might be better/easier than the thigh. It looks just as awkward as glutes to me. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcn View Post
    Swanson52, do you self inject using ventrogluteal? I'm trying to figure out if this might be better/easier than the thigh. It looks just as awkward as glutes to me. Thanks.
    Negative. My wife (a nurse) sticks me. So I'm cheating.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
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    I'm thinking about getting my blood tested on my own in about a month. How many days after last injection would be the best time to get labs done??
  36. FireRescue's Avatar
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    The day prior to you next injection would be the time to test. This will get you at the trough.
  37. geezer7178's Avatar
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    Same here just showed the wife how and where to inject so much easier than trying to look back at my ass or use the mirror. Though ventralglut is super easy to hit every time. Right side only I can't do the left though.
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    I just started injecting into my quad at the advice of my doctor. Back in my cycling days it was always right straight into the buttocks. Lol
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    I dont know that I think any one injection site is better than another.
  40. pcn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    Negative. My wife (a nurse) sticks me. So I'm cheating.
    Rats. I had that feeling. Although, I was reading on another site about someone who self injected while standing up. He said shifting from one leg to the other helped that muscle stand out and made it easier to identify. Once he had it, he shifted weight to the other leg and injected the relaxed side. I'd have to see it done to be comfortable - I can see my thigh pretty easily..
  

  
 

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    By goldenchild777 in forum Anabolics
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    Last Post: 08-30-2005, 11:35 AM

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