How much can you expect your test levels to rise on trt

[Vinnyboombots]

I know everyone is different and everyone will have somewhat different results. But is there a general average on how much your testosterone levels will rise say with injecting 100mgs a week or 150 or 200?

 

[napalm]

there's a lot of variation, even within one person.

when i started, i was on 100/week, one injection. first set of labs had me in the mid 400's the day before injection, so endo bumped me up to 150. it was around this time i started reading about more frequent injections, so i divided it up to 75/twice a week. this is where problems started. 3 days after injection i was in the mid 1100's, e2 in the 70's and felt like sh.it. look at me wrong i wanted to throttle you, i was a bloated 214, everything was just s.hit. keep in mind that this was still within normal of the lab i go to.

so i started reading again and came up with 50 every 4 days and this is working great. my troughs are in the 700's, and peaks i'm guessing around ~1000. e2 is back in the 30's.

my point is, you have to experiment with dose/frequency. it helps a lot of you have a cool endo like i do. he just lets me do what i want, but let's not get carried away and keep the levels within range. he know's i'm a pl'r, and i've convinced him that i'm not trying to just job the system. it kind of gives me a case of the red ass when guys come in here with questions and they obviously just want to do a perma cycle under the guise of trt with no interest in any labs other than what their T is. you wanna do a cycle, do a cycle, have a f'ing ball. but don't do it and try to call it trt, it makes the rest of us look bad.

after having low T for so long, i sure the hell ain't going to get greedy when i found a dose that makes me feel better AND still make gains (slowly) at 49.

good luck...

 

[Vinnyboombots]

there's a lot of variation, even within one person.

when i started, i was on 100/week, one injection. first set of labs had me in the mid 400's the day before injection, so endo bumped me up to 150. it was around this time i started reading about more frequent injections, so i divided it up to 75/twice a week. this is where problems started. 3 days after injection i was in the mid 1100's, e2 in the 70's and felt like sh.it. look at me wrong i wanted to throttle you, i was a bloated 214, everything was just s.hit. keep in mind that this was still within normal of the lab i go to.

so i started reading again and came up with 50 every 4 days and this is working great. my troughs are in the 700's, and peaks i'm guessing around ~1000. e2 is back in the 30's.

my point is, you have to experiment with dose/frequency. it helps a lot of you have a cool endo like i do. he just lets me do what i want, but let's not get carried away and keep the levels within range. he know's i'm a pl'r, and i've convinced him that i'm not trying to just job the system. it kind of gives me a case of the red ass when guys come in here with questions and they obviously just want to do a perma cycle under the guise of trt with no interest in any labs other than what their T is. you wanna do a cycle, do a cycle, have a f'ing ball. but don't do it and try to call it trt, it makes the rest of us look bad.

after having low T for so long, i sure the hell ain't going to get greedy when i found a dose that makes me feel better AND still make gains (slowly) at 49.

good luck...

Awesome response Bro, It's good to hear from someone who has alot of knowledge on this subject. I've got to ask you this question because the doctor got me on 100mgs a week and i'm going to stick with that for awhile, did you notice any benefit at all when you were injecting 100 mgs a week because lately all the posts i'm reading are saying that weekly injections suck and i don't want to be wasting the next 12 weeks of my life until i see my doc again

 

[Swanson52]

I followed Napalm's advice, and went to 50mg e4d, and after my last set of labs (yesterday), looks like I'm peaking around 700, valleys are around 600, estradiol stays between 20-25 at all ranges.

For me, when I get >800 or so I get awful sides; blood pressure issues, hematocrit climbs like crazy, irritable, etc.

It took me a year to sort it out, and I'm on about 1/2 the dose that I was originally prescribed. Additionally I don't do it for purposes of training; I went in because of fatigue, malaise, loss of libido & depression. If I quit competing & training tomorrow I'd still stay on (prescribed) TRT.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

Additionally I don't do it for purposes of training; I went in because of fatigue, malaise, loss of libido & depression. If I quit competing & training tomorrow I'd still stay on (prescribed) TRT.

This is exactly why i'm on trt Bro I have all of the above symptoms. Can i ask you what your original trt regimen was?

 

[napalm]

Awesome response Bro, It's good to hear from someone who has alot of knowledge on this subject. I've got to ask you this question because the doctor got me on 100mgs a week and i'm going to stick with that for awhile, did you notice any benefit at all when you were injecting 100 mgs a week because lately all the posts i'm reading are saying that weekly injections suck and i don't want to be wasting the next 12 weeks of my life until i see my doc again

Yeah Vinny, I did notice an effect on mood, etc.. on 100/week for the first few days. The closer to injection, the old symptoms came back. That's the beauty of more frequent injections, you never bottom out. I'd talk to your doc, if he believes you and him are on the same team, he might let you experiment. If not, just time everything so that it appears that you're taking it as prescribed. It can be done easily.

Kisaj has some good posts on this topic...

 

[Swanson52]

Started at 140mg e7d, worked up to 200mg e7d, but on all doses by day 7 I was bottomed out & miserable. This is all with test cyp.

My PCP has a hard time believing I'm ok with injecting e4d, but the results are undeniable. Honestly, with ventrogluteal injects I don't feel it at all, and it's 3 minutes out of my day. BFD.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

Yeah Vinny, I did notice an effect on mood, etc.. on 100/week for the first few days. The closer to injection, the old symptoms came back. That's the beauty of more frequent injections, you never bottom out. I'd talk to your doc, if he believes you and him are on the same team, he might let you experiment. If not, just time everything so that it appears that you're taking it as prescribed. It can be done easily.

Kisaj has some good posts on this topic...

No my doctor is really open minded and believes in the the benefits of trt. I'm not scheduled to see him for a couple of months maybe I'll call for an appointment sooner.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

Yeah Vinny, I did notice an effect on mood, etc.. on 100/week for the first few days. The closer to injection, the old symptoms came back. That's the beauty of more frequent injections, you never bottom out. I'd talk to your doc, if he believes you and him are on the same team, he might let you experiment. If not, just time everything so that it appears that you're taking it as prescribed. It can be done easily.

Kisaj has some good posts on this topic...

Last time I was there he offered to give ne a script for Hcg but I felt it was kind of expensive so he told me that I could think about it, what are your thoughts on hcg Napalm?

 

[Vinnyboombots]

Started at 140mg e7d, worked up to 200mg e7d, but on all doses by day 7 I was bottomed out & miserable. This is all with test cyp.

My PCP has a hard time believing I'm ok with injecting e4d, but the results are undeniable. Honestly, with ventrogluteal injects I don't feel it at all, and it's 3 minutes out of my day. BFD.

Damn 200mgs a week that's a hefty trt dose!! almost a weaker cycle ventrogluteal is that a fancy way to say that you inject into your glutes. Lol

 

[Swanson52]

Damn 200mgs a week that's a hefty trt dose!! almost a weaker cycle ventrogluteal is that a fancy way to say that you inject into your glutes. Lol

They were thinking a higher dose would be more acceptable to me than more frequent injections.

Ventrogluteal are injections into the gluteus medius, like so-

Hand to God, can't even feel them.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

They were thinking a higher dose would be more acceptable to me than more frequent injections.

Ventrogluteal are injections into the gluteus medius, like so-

Hand to God, can't even feel them.

If we're all gonna do this for life then the least amount of pain and scar tissue is definitely key!! What gauge needle do you use??

 

[Swanson52]

If we're all gonna do this for life then the least amount of pain and scar tissue is definitely key!! What gauge needle do you use??

23 or 25x1.5" depending on what Walgreens has in stock. I just started buying by the 100 per box so i dont run out. I prefer the 25 though.

 

[kisaj]

I've been on TRT for about 2 1/2 years and went like this:

200mg e2w- mean and irritable days 2-5, better 6-8, let down 8-13. Libido high, though. Strength and size increased a bit.

200mg ew- mean and irritable days 2-5, better 6th, and then I started all over. Gained water weight and generally did not feel good. Libido was fading, but size and strength went up considerably. Neck and wrists noticeably bigger. Put on about 10lbs in 2 months with no effort.

150 ew- pretty good 3-6, but did have a little agitation the days after injection. Libido high, strength high, gains easy to keep.

100 ew- pretty good throughout, but I noticed that I started to drop a little bit on day 6. Energy was just a little down and mind was a little foggy in comparison to days leading up. Same as 150, but with the slight fade at the end.

50e3d- perfect, prefect, perfect. Feel great, libido completely normal, and generally feel like a powerhouse.

I am on a blast right now at 125mg e3d and I actually feel really good, save for some slight aggression that I don't care for because it affects my demeanor in everyday situations. Making pretty big gains in a short period, but I am looking forward to going back to a more relaxed mind set in the next 3 weeks when this is done.

Pull w/ 18g and inject w/ 25g into glute subq and painless.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

23 or 25x1.5" depending on what Walgreens has in stock. I just started buying by the 100 per box so i dont run out. I prefer the 25 though.

Yea 25 does make a big difference

 

[napalm]

what are your thoughts on hcg Napalm?

That all depends on if you want kids. Some docs will try a clomid/hcg combo in an attempt to restart a guy who wants to have kids. I've seen data both ways on efficacy, so the jury is still out.

Some guys just get weirded out when their boys shrink. Me, I give zero fcks.

I have no use for it...

 

[Vinnyboombots]

I've been on TRT for about 2 1/2 years and went like this: 200mg e2w- mean and irritable days 2-5, better 6-8, let down 8-13. Libido high, though. Strength and size increased a bit.200mg ew- mean and irritable days 2-5, better 6th, and then I started all over. Gained water weight and generally did not feel good. Libido was fading, but size and strength went up considerably. Neck and wrists noticeably bigger. Put on about 10lbs in 2 months with no effort.150 ew- pretty good 3-6, but did have a little agitation the days after injection. Libido high, strength high, gains easy to keep.100 ew- pretty good throughout, but I noticed that I started to drop a little bit on day 6. Energy was just a little down and mind was a little foggy in comparison to days leading up. Same as 150, but with the slight fade at the end.50e3d- perfect, prefect, perfect. Feel great, libido completely normal, and generally feel like a powerhouse. I am on a blast right now at 125mg e3d and I actually feel really good, save for some slight aggression that I don't care for because it affects my demeanor in everyday situations. Making pretty big gains in a short period, but I am looking forward to going back to a more relaxed mind set in the next 3 weeks when this is done.Pull w/ 18g and inject w/ 25g into glute subq and painless.

That is an awesome breakdown thank you..Looks like it's 50 mgs every 3 days for the win. I keep reading that it's going to be different for everyone so do you think i should just stick with the 100 a week for a little bit to see if it fits me? Or does the once a week dosing almost never work?

 

[Vinnyboombots]

That all depends on if you want kids. Some docs will try a clomid/hcg combo in an attempt to restart a guy who wants to have kids. I've seen data both ways on efficacy, so the jury is still out.Some guys just get weirded out when their boys shrink. Me, I give zero fcks. I have no use for it...

No i'm done having kids.

 

[kisaj]

That is an awesome breakdown thank you..Looks like it's 50 mgs every 3 days for the win. I keep reading that it's going to be different for everyone so do you think i should just stick with the 100 a week for a little bit to see if it fits me? Or does the once a week dosing almost never work?

You have to find what works for you. It is basically trial and error until you dial it in.

IMO, don't mix in hcg. It raises e2, increases water gain, and is pointless if you aren't vain about losing 1/3 of your nut size. You say you are done having kids, so skip it.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

You have to find what works for you. It is basically trial and error until you dial it in. IMO, don't mix in hcg. It raises e2, increases water gain, and is pointless if you aren't vain about losing 1/3 of your nut size. You say you are done having kids, so skip it.

Yea if it's going to add to the problem then i'm all set. There's only one woman that see's my nuts anyway and she hasn't whipped out a ruler yet. Lol

 

[FireRescue]

For you guys doing more frequent injects, do you use and AI or have you been able to reduce you AI dosage going more frequent lower dosages. Chrisler states many of his patients can go off their AI going to lower, more frequent, subQ injects.

 

[napalm]

For you guys doing more frequent injects, do you use and AI or have you been able to reduce you AI dosage going more frequent lower dosages. Chrisler states many of his patients can go off their AI going to lower, more frequent, subQ injects.

If you do it right, you don't need an ai.

And I saw crisler's vid. I've been kicking around sub q but haven't decided yet.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

If you do it right, you don't need an ai.

And I saw crisler's vid. I've been kicking around sub q but haven't decided yet.

My doctor hasn't even mentioned an ai yet. It doesn't really matter if need be I have access to them.

 

[Swanson52]

No AI here. All I've ever needed/used is my cyp. Everything else stays perfectly normal.

 

[FireRescue]

Thanks for the replies. You are also not using HCG which can have an effect on e2. I do not think Chrisler believes in dropping the HCG.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

Thanks for the replies. You are also not using HCG which can have an effect on e2. I do not think Chrisler believes in dropping the HCG.

Yea from everything i've read that's the main thing i keep hearing. "Forget about hcg"

 

[kisaj]

No AI here. I've been doing sub q for about a year and half. No need to drill into that muscle.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

No AI here. I've been doing sub q for about a year and half. No need to drill into that muscle.

It absorbs just as well? It would suck to end up with some kind of abscess.

 

[kisaj]

I don't do things for a year and a half that don't work. Just sayin..

 

[Vinnyboombots]

I don't do things for a year and a half that don't work. Just sayin..

Gotcha. SQ Definitely sounds less painful, my quad was a little sore the day after. And it probably reduces scar tissue.

 

[LMuscle]

I've been doing 30mg eod IM quad with 5/8" needles for the past month, everything is great.

 

[corvettels3]

when I started trt about 3 years ago my regimen was 100mg/e10. Yes every 10 days. My peak was a little over 1000 and by day 10 I was right under 500. honestly I never experienced any "roller coaster" of any kind. I'm now (past 2 months) doing 100mg/e7 just because it's easier for me to remember when to inject.

btw, like kisaj and lexmusle I'm also doing sub q. 30g 1/2cc 1/2 inch in the thigh..

 

[pcn]

Swanson52, do you self inject using ventrogluteal? I'm trying to figure out if this might be better/easier than the thigh. It looks just as awkward as glutes to me. Thanks.

 

[Swanson52]

Swanson52, do you self inject using ventrogluteal? I'm trying to figure out if this might be better/easier than the thigh. It looks just as awkward as glutes to me. Thanks.

Negative. My wife (a nurse) sticks me. So I'm cheating.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

I'm thinking about getting my blood tested on my own in about a month. How many days after last injection would be the best time to get labs done??

 

[FireRescue]

The day prior to you next injection would be the time to test. This will get you at the trough.

 

[geezer7178]

Same here just showed the wife how and where to inject so much easier than trying to look back at my ass or use the mirror. Though ventralglut is super easy to hit every time. Right side only I can't do the left though.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

I just started injecting into my quad at the advice of my doctor. Back in my cycling days it was always right straight into the buttocks. Lol

 

[FireRescue]

I dont know that I think any one injection site is better than another.

 

[pcn]

Negative. My wife (a nurse) sticks me. So I'm cheating.

Rats. I had that feeling. Although, I was reading on another site about someone who self injected while standing up. He said shifting from one leg to the other helped that muscle stand out and made it easier to identify. Once he had it, he shifted weight to the other leg and injected the relaxed side. I'd have to see it done to be comfortable - I can see my thigh pretty easily..

 

[Vinnyboombots]

Here's another question for all you trt veterans. I just finished my 2cd shot on trt and since i'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life it just dawned on me that i'm going to end up with a ton of needles, How do you guys properly dispose of your needles, i mean the rest of our lives adds up to alot of dirty needles. Lol

 

[napalm]

Here's another question for all you trt veterans. I just finished my 2cd shot on trt and since i'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life it just dawned on me that i'm going to end up with a ton of needles, How do you guys properly dispose of your needles, i mean the rest of our lives adds up to alot of dirty needles. Lol

I just put them in a gallon milk container and take take them to endo's office at follow up visits.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

I just put them in a gallon milk container and take take them to endo's office at follow up visits.

you just give it to them when you get there? That does make sense they do have all those sharps containers in every room.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

Negative. My wife (a nurse) sticks me. So I'm cheating.

Swanson how do you get rid of your used needles, bury them in the back yard?? Lol

 

[Swanson52]

Swanson how do you get rid of your used needles, bury them in the back yard?? Lol

Nah I buy the sharps containers at Walgreens and my wife disposes if them with her company's biohazard stuff.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

Nah I buy the sharps containers at Walgreens and my wife disposes if them with her company's biohazard stuff.

Good idea I never actually thought about buying a sharps container for the house.

 

[geezer7178]

There is one I got at CVS which also comes with a return box. I dispose the container at work so not sure how much it actually costs to ship, though.

 

[Vinnyboombots]

There is one I got at CVS which also comes with a return box. I dispose the container at work so not sure how much it actually costs to ship, though.

You ship it back to the company that sells the sharps containers?

 

[kisaj]

Any reason you guys make it complicated? Seal them up and trash em.

 

[Swanson52]

Any reason you guys make it complicated? Seal them up and trash em.

Yes, there is a reason. My wife is a nurse and she's an absolute freak about it, and detests throwing sharps in the trash regardless of the container.

Doesn't matter to me, she's the one that disposes of them. However, I'd rather give the "overboard" advice versus someone just tossing dirty sharps in the trash. Just my opinion.