TRT from anti-aging clinic
- 04-11-2013, 05:32 PM
TRT from anti-aging clinic
OK boys here we go. I'll be starting TRT this weekend. Was seen by PCP offered Gel. Would not go for Injectable. The Endo.s in the area are all Diabetic specialist, so I went to an anti-aging clinic. Full labs, Dx hypogonadism. And truely I have the full slate of the symptoms. I've been feeling bad over the past two years or so. Ran my own labs consistantly Low Test, 210-230 ish over about a year. I wanted to try OTC stuff like DAA, Test boosters, etc. Really to satisfy the wife, to say look I tryed this OTC BS. Needless to say, no benefit. Then decided to try 1-Andro. and that shut me down hard Test was 33, 3 wks on that, with little benefit, still lethargic but now bloated too. Test level started to come back up but still low by the time I was tested by Clinic. LH low. E2 low.
So Rx for TRT is Test cyp 150mg/wk. Hcg 500iu/wk. Tamoxifen not sure the mg but it is slated to start 4 wks into TRT. My IGF and GH was also low so I added the recommended GH as well.
They Rx'd the full 26 weeks, DEA max. allowance for schedule drugs. I asked if they wanted my to cycle the test. and the hcg but they recommended a straight shot of 26 wks. GH I know is full time. Have lab Rx for 5th week.
The dilemma is this: Lets say after the the 6 month run, I feel great, look great, and want to stop TRT and GH, Will my test levels fall back down to the low 200's or will they remain in the high normal range?? And the result of that low T again??
- 04-11-2013, 06:06 PM
If you stop after six months your test levels will crash down to nothing. Your natural production will be shut off. You would need a PCT to jump start your system again and it will probably end up in the 200s again.
- 04-11-2013, 06:35 PM
So a standard PCT, I guess it'll just help back to whatever my baseline is. I surely don't want to crash, is there such a thing as tapering test.??
04-11-2013, 07:43 PM
No, if you are on TRT, it is for life and that is because you aren't capable of creating your own- this isn't a cycle. You shut yourself down when you go on TRT and for most everyone, we don't care because our goal is to get into the high normal range. If you stop, even if you use a PCT, you are going to go right back where you were. Except now it will be worse because you know what it is like to be high normal and you never want to go back.
04-11-2013, 11:16 PM
Ok but still could get back to my "low T" level should I get feed up with TRT. Because I'm not technically "shut down" at the 200-250 range. To be honest, when I reach my goals I could love with low t as long as I could keep my body comp. goal.
What are the thoughts on the tamoxifen, could I hold off and not take it unless I get e2 symptoms? Also the hcg?
04-12-2013, 08:09 AM
Like he said above. Once you get used to the elevated levels and feel better it will be hard to come off and be satisfied. You can try but I would be prepared to get back on if you do.
04-12-2013, 09:09 AM
I don't think you are quite grasping TRT. If you are planning to run a cycle like you are telling us, in so many words, then make it worth your while and run a real cycle. You'll get the gains you are after running a 500mg wk test cycle and then can move into PCT and eventually drop back to your crappy natural levels. Don't expect to hold onto your gains for long, though. Yes, you "technically" aren't shut down in the 200's, but you may as well be.
Anyone that truly should be on TRT never looks at it as something you get "fed up" with. It is a life changer.
04-12-2013, 01:26 PM
Look I get it, TRT is a life sentance. And I'm fine being chemically enhanced for life. The reading I do is mostly medial journals, the big push for Low T is that it a "symptom" not a disease. For example, poor diet, poor sleep patterns, chronic disease. I personally don't buy it. What I'm trying to assertain is of the guys here who have done long term TRT, and have stopped for whatever reason, how do they do?
Also what do think of that tamoxifen?? Its Rx'd as 20mg eod. Can I hold off on it unless I feel e2 symptoms??
04-12-2013, 01:48 PM
I can only speak for one guy that I train with and he was on TRT for about 3 years and then had to go overseas for work so he was going to try to come off. He worked with his endo and it took about 3 months to stop, then go through whatever process they did (I think Clomid) and have him functional. He went right back to where he was before TRT. He hated life, but was back to where he was.
As far as tamoxifen, I have no idea. I don't take anything for e2 because I inject e4d.
04-13-2013, 11:33 AM
I understand your Delima. I just went on trt not to long ago. One thing I don't understand is why you would want to come off trt if it's working for you. wait until you have been using for some time and judge how you feel. If it works continue.
04-13-2013, 12:12 PM
The thought of being on something forever is a nerve racking thing at first- I completely understand that. In fact, when I started a couple years ago, I saw 3 different endos looking for alternatives because I was scared. I had just started and was about 6-7 weeks in. Then, I started feeling incredible and talking with the endos, I explained that I never wanted to feel different. There was no way that high stress was ever going to be out of my life because of my career and sleep was something I always worked on, but was never great. I know these were factors and was open and honest about it. The same answer from all 3 was that we could try Clomid and see how it worked, but that my lifestyle was likely always going to be a factor and that TRT was one way around it.
Long story short, once people see what it can do for them and make them feel, they'll never want to stop. But until you get on it and feel and see the change, it is hard to grasp mentally.
04-13-2013, 12:15 PM
Yea I've come to that understanding. I'm going to give 100% The only thing I worry about are the ancillaries Tamoxifen and hcg ya know that was my main concern for wanting to stop
04-13-2013, 01:32 PM
The hcg will make it easier to restart your system if you stop....
But I don't understand why they gave you tamox instead of exemestane.
Tamox has sides...can be hard on your liver, and is not an ideal AI on cycle.
04-13-2013, 01:56 PM
04-13-2013, 02:23 PM
04-14-2013, 11:56 AM
04-14-2013, 01:42 PM
it took me over a year to figure out the right dose and timing of the test cyp, while keeping e2 under control.
also, 150/week is a pretty hefty trt dose. when i was at that dose, i was in the 1100's 3 days after injection and felt like crap. e2 was in the 70's at the time. you'll prolly find you don't need that much...
04-14-2013, 02:17 PM
04-14-2013, 02:44 PM
When I was running high TRT doses in the beginning, I used Aromasin because spiking my test levels caused e2 issues. Once I dropped the amount, this started to clear on it's own, but I would still use Erase to assist. Now that I have been injecting smaller doses twice a week, I have no e2 issues at all.
04-14-2013, 02:47 PM
04-14-2013, 03:09 PM
04-14-2013, 03:32 PM
04-14-2013, 03:37 PM
if you're concerned about e2, start at 100/week rather than 150/week. re-test labs after a month and adjust up or down. split the 100 into 2 50 mg injections/week. more isn't better, better is better.
keep the variables to a minimum. don't add/subtract anything unless based on labs and/or symptoms.
don't even take an ai until you know you need one. if you do it right, you won't need one...
04-14-2013, 06:34 PM
There is a great product out there called forma stanzol that I am currently taking while on TRT. It has worked great as my only AI source. You can find it at Mr Supps
04-14-2013, 06:41 PM
04-14-2013, 07:19 PM
It is not an advertisement. I can see how It may look like one but trust me it is not. I am not affiliated in any way with the company. I do not benefit in any way if u chose to use the product or not. I am just giving my advice/suggestion to a supplement that works great as an AI for me while I'm on TRT and that is what he was asking about.
04-14-2013, 07:47 PM
04-14-2013, 07:59 PM
In any case, it is a moot point if people spent more time getting their treatment correct instead of putting band-aids on it.
04-14-2013, 09:05 PM
So, back to forma stanzol once I incorporated it into my TRT (Axiron gel) I have dropped my estrogen levels on my blood work. I have also leaned up a bit. So it has been a good ancillary for me on my TRT and that is why I suggested it. I wished someone had suggested it to me earlier. Oh yeah and I actually really enjoy helping others.
04-14-2013, 10:04 PM
Forma is a good product but it is also steroidal, so for someone who is concerned about shutdown in the future as he had plans to come off of TRT, I would suggest something else. A steroidal AI will just increase the odds of becoming more shut down and make coming off TRT harder.
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