Endo pulled me offf TRT after 6 yrs. Alternatives? - AnabolicMinds.com

Endo pulled me offf TRT after 6 yrs. Alternatives?

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    Endo pulled me offf TRT after 6 yrs. Alternatives?


    I've been on TRT for over 6 yrs. My endo in Jan took me off because of high hemocrit & hemoglobin levels. Is there a alternative? I asked about going back on & he stated we'll test again in june & maybe then. He also told me i might just have to live with low test levels.



    I'm not looking for doctor advice but I'm looking for thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder31
    I've been on TRT for over 6 yrs. My endo in Jan took me off because of high hemocrit & hemoglobin levels. Is there a alternative? I asked about going back on & he stated we'll test again in june & maybe then. He also told me i might just have to live with low test levels.

    I'm not looking for doctor advice but I'm looking for thoughts.
    Therapeutic phlebotomy is often done with increased hgb and hct. Did you try lowering your dose? I've been struggling with mine a bit, but it's came down since I lowered it. Still a little high but heading in the right direction.

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    maybe another doc
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    I kid you not brother. I was in the same boat as you. Since starting trt three years ago my hematocrit has been in the 53-54 range and my hemoglobin in the 19.2 range. When I blast I'm at 55. I've tried donating, but that only brings it down maybe a point if I'm lucky. In late Nov. my crit was at 55 and globlin was 19.2. I had bloodwork this past Wednesday and my crit came down to 51 and globlin 17. Keep in mind that I'm currently on week 7 of a blast of 500mg/week. How did I get my crit down? The almighty grapefruit brother. I read a study that was conducted years ago on the effects of gf and hematocrit values. 1/2 gf for x amount of weeks brought crit numbers into range. At first I thought bs this can't be true. What the hell I give it a shot. When I started my cycle I simply drank 3oz of gp juice. 7 weeks in and I'm back in range. Crit, globlin, and rbc are all normal now.

    BTW, I do have my blood work to back this up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvettels3
    I kid you not brother. I was in the same boat as you. Since starting trt three years ago my hematocrit has been in the 53-54 range and my hemoglobin in the 19.2 range. When I blast I'm at 55. I've tried donating, but that only brings it down maybe a point if I'm lucky. In late Nov. my crit was at 55 and globlin was 19.2. I had bloodwork this past Wednesday and my crit came down to 51 and globlin 17. Keep in mind that I'm currently on week 7 of a blast of 500mg/week. How did I get my crit down? The almighty grapefruit brother. I read a study that was conducted years ago on the effects of gf and hematocrit values. 1/2 gf for x amount of weeks brought crit numbers into range. At first I thought bs this can't be true. What the hell I give it a shot. When I started my cycle I simply drank 3oz of gp juice. 7 weeks in and I'm back in range. Crit, globlin, and rbc are all normal now.

    BTW, I do have my blood work to back this up.
    Wow, did the gf juice do anything to hgb?

    And please post the study if you could, I'd like to check this out.

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    This is very interesting, I'd like to see numbers (not that I don't believe you, I just find it amazing) and any other info. I'm off to Google things now. I don't have an issue, but I always like to be proactive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj
    This is very interesting, I'd like to see numbers (not that I don't believe you, I just find it amazing) and any other info. I'm off to Google things now. I don't have an issue, but I always like to be proactive.
    Please post studies if you find them, can't google now...

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    I am finding a lot of them that all point to research showing it does in fact lower hemocrit. The main reason it apparently isn't suggested is due to the interaction it has with other orals like anti-depressants, alergy medicines, calcium supps, and anti-psychosis meds.
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    Heys guys I'm off to the gym. I should be back in a few hours. I will post the study along with my before and after blood work..
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    No idea why this isn't brought up more. There seems to be a lot of personal experiences with people posting labs having numbers drop by 3-4 points. That is a big drop just by adding grapefruit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    Therapeutic phlebotomy is often done with increased hgb and hct. Did you try lowering your dose? I've been struggling with mine a bit, but it's came down since I lowered it. Still a little high but heading in the right direction.

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    i've lowered my dose twice. how often do you give/ throw away your blood?
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvettels3 View Post
    I kid you not brother. I was in the same boat as you. Since starting trt three years ago my hematocrit has been in the 53-54 range and my hemoglobin in the 19.2 range. When I blast I'm at 55. I've tried donating, but that only brings it down maybe a point if I'm lucky. In late Nov. my crit was at 55 and globlin was 19.2. I had bloodwork this past Wednesday and my crit came down to 51 and globlin 17. Keep in mind that I'm currently on week 7 of a blast of 500mg/week. How did I get my crit down? The almighty grapefruit brother. I read a study that was conducted years ago on the effects of gf and hematocrit values. 1/2 gf for x amount of weeks brought crit numbers into range. At first I thought bs this can't be true. What the hell I give it a shot. When I started my cycle I simply drank 3oz of gp juice. 7 weeks in and I'm back in range. Crit, globlin, and rbc are all normal now.

    BTW, I do have my blood work to back this up.
    This sounds great !!!! i'm going to look into this.. Thanks a ton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder31

    i've lowered my dose twice. how often do you give/ throw away your blood?
    There are guidelines and a formula they use to calc the amount of blood. IIRC, the most you should do it is like every 55 days or something like that.

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    as an alternative there is some evidence that low dose clomid can be a replacement for trt

    "More recently, the use of clomiphene citrate has gained popularity in both the treatment of male factor infertility and male hypogonadism. Clomiphene citrate is a selective estrogen receptor modulator that acts at the level of the hypothalamus to block feedback inhibition of estradiol, thereby increasing release of LH and FSH from the pituitary. The LH and FSH then act on the Leydig and Sertoli cells of the testes, respectively, to increase serum testosterone and levels and spermatogenesis [Taylor and Levine, 2009]. In just 4–6 weeks of a low dose of clomiphene citrate treatment (25mg per day), hypogonadal men exhibit significant increases in serum testosterone and testosterone/estradiol ratios [Shabsigh et al. 2005]. By stimulating endogenous androgen production, clomiphene citrate has proven to be a viable alternative to TRT."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3126089/
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    Hey guys, here is the study..
    I'm unable to provide link due to my post count.

    Just copy below and you know the rest..
    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3243695
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    before:
    s930.beta.photobucket.com/user/vette87/media/nov10001_zps7e300546.jpg.html

    s930.beta.photobucket.com/user/vette87/media/nov10002_zps3615445c.jpg.html

    after:
    s930.beta.photobucket.com/user/vette87/media/feb10001_zps631474c2.jpg.html
    s930.beta.photobucket.com/user/vette87/media/feb10002_zps41cdc80a.jpg.html
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    Find a new Dr. walk in get your records never look back.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Find a new Dr. walk in get your records never look back.
    Give a little background on your response, Matrix. Do you think he shouldn't be worried, is it the wrong approach, another way to go about it?

    You are in the industry, so it helps if you give some info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Find a new Dr. walk in get your records never look back.
    Please give more info? I was at 450mg a week the last yr & a half then in june of last yr it was rising so he knocked me down to 350mg / wk then in jan he took me off. This has been the same doc for the last 6 yrs. They tell me im near the high side of the range & want me to stay off until june as that is my follow up again.


    my wife is already irritated by my lack of test. She has stated she can't live with me like this. Lol...
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    Those numbers can't be right. A doctor isn't going to give you 350 or 450mg of test a week.
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    Trt dosage is usually between 50-100mg week. My family doctor is pretty easy to work with. I go in with my studies etc. and we work together. If I were you I would print out the study and go over it with your physician. Good luck brother..
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Those numbers can't be right. A doctor isn't going to give you 350 or 450mg of test a week.
    Yes this is right.
    testim 1% is 50 mg. I do this 7 days a wk for the 350mg per wk & when I was at 450mg/wk I did 2 tubes mon & fri.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvettels3 View Post
    Trt dosage is usually between 50-100mg week. My family doctor is pretty easy to work with. I go in with my studies etc. and we work together. If I were you I would print out the study and go over it with your physician. Good luck brother..
    I'm doing a transdermal. The paper work states 10% absorbtion. so that would be 35 to 45mg per week.
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    seems like the best path to me.
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    besides that, finding a new doctor is almost always incredibly easy to do.
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    The more I read up on grapefruit, the more I am seeing that those that are on TRT shouldn't consume it because it raises estrogen. In fact several doctors post on their web sites that consumption of grapefruit is prohibited.

    Kind of weird that there is so much conflicting information.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    The more I read up on grapefruit, the more I am seeing that those that are on TRT shouldn't consume it because it raises estrogen. In fact several doctors post on their web sites that consumption of grapefruit is prohibited.Kind of weird that there is so much conflicting information.
    Grape seed extract lower it...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix
    Grape seed extract lower it...
    Got any studies?

    Srs, not yanking your chain...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    The more I read up on grapefruit, the more I am seeing that those that are on TRT shouldn't consume it because it raises estrogen. In fact several doctors post on their web sites that consumption of grapefruit is prohibited.

    Kind of weird that there is so much conflicting information.
    What? I eat grapefruit everyday, keeps me very lean
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    This is a discussion on the effect of grapefruit on hormones, not weight loss.

    I actually called my doc yesterday to ask what he thought and he left me a long rambling vm that I listened to last night. Basically, he said he doesn't recommend it because of interactions with so many other supplements and drugs, so rather than go down the list, he simply doesn't recommend it. He is aware that it does increase estrogen, but he said that it usually is only a problem with men that are already prone to elevated levels, which can also include patients on TRT. Then followed up with a bunch of technical babble ending with: his only recommendation is to always stay hydrated because dehydration and our CO elevation are going to be more to blame for elevated #s than TRT ever will.

    Combined with that and what I have been reading, I think I am going to stay away and just drink up my water.
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    I'm going to continue with the gf. I have another appointment next month. I do know that my e2 for the past year has been between 30-31 with my trt. When I blast 500mg along with 12.5mg stane my e2 is at 30.

    On another note, staying hydrated did nothing for my crit levels. I drink at least a gallon a day and my crit was still high. Pre trt my crit was at 48. A few years ago I decided to stop trt and guess what my crit levels went back down. When I restarted they went right back up. I would have to say TRT and high hematocrit levels are related.
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    Oh, I'm not suggesting that it isn't or that I am offering any guidance on this. I was just posting what I was told and what I've read. There is plenty out there that shows that grapefruit does lower crit levels, but there is also the chance of raised estrogen. Everyone can decide on their own the best route for them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Oh, I'm not suggesting that it isn't or that I am offering any guidance on this. I was just posting what I was told and what I've read. There is plenty out there that shows that grapefruit does lower crit levels, but there is also the chance of raised estrogen. Everyone can decide on their own the best route for them.
    You're right.. There is much info on grapefruit it's crazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvettels3 View Post
    You're right.. There is much info on grapefruit it's crazy.

    http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/co...6/11/5960.full
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I read every word, understood about 30% of it, and now have a headache...

    Very interesting and it looks like they want to take this out of the lab and into clinical trials.

    I'm gonna google me some GSE...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Grape seed extract lower it...
    Does grape seed extract help lower hemocrit levels?
    Or were you just referring to its e2 lowering effect?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Able825 View Post
    Does grape seed extract help lower hemocrit levels?
    Or were you just referring to its e2 lowering effect?
    I know people who have to be careful because they have blood clotting issues.
    Dosages are from 600-900 mgs per day from Bro science.
    It would be nice to actually may be formulate a study to see if this may be an alternative.

    Now being involved in the world of research, one learns to validate their claims
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    wow, that's a hefty dose.
    thanks matrix.
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    Going to get me some grape seed extract this week and give it a try......
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