26, low T, need help convincing the doctors - AnabolicMinds.com

26, low T, need help convincing the doctors

  1. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    26, low T, need help convincing the doctors


    Hi guys,

    I'm 26 year old male, 5'8, 175 lbs, estimating 15-18% bf, lift weights, do some HIIT cardio, used to play soccer but these days I'm sedentary other than the weight training and cardio, no medications, no previous AAS or PED usage, generally healthy.

    I've had my serum testosterone levels checked several times now and all have come back low 'normal' or below range, usually around 9.7nmol/L (12-32).
    I'm onto my 2nd endo after the first one didn't work out and 2 GP's who don't believe my levels are low.
    The reason for their belief is because they use the Free Androgen Index to estimate free testosterone. It goes like this:

    FAI=100x(Total T SHBG)

    In my case it was 100x(9.7 12) = 81. That's close to top of the range but that's not a real measurement of free testosterone.

    The current endo has ordered blood work which includes total and free T so hopefully I get a proper measurement.

    In case he still doesn't think I require treatment or a further investigation into what's causing these low readings what's the best way to convince him otherwise. I've already told him my symptoms and I'm going to mention a few more at the next appointment that I didn't last time. Based on all the previous bw he doesn't believe testosterone is the problem.

    Should I show him that chart with T levels for normal healthy males in age groups? The last endo simply dismissed it when I showed him.
    The current one said he'll put me through some physical tests next time (strength and possibly endurance tests). Should I play weak?

    Would telling him that I have a doctor lined up who will treat me be a good idea? (not a lie but he'll cost me money where as this guy won't)
    Or tell him I'll self medicate so he might as well treat and monitor me?

    Or possibly crash my testosterone as much as possible before the blood draw? The downside is it'll skew the bw which gets me no closer to finding the actual cause.

    I can post all my bw if anyone is curious but I'm mainly looking for answers to the above questions.
    If it doesn't workout with this endo I'll have to go with the next doc who is recommended but will cost a bit of money. I'm trying to get this dealt with now while my motivation is up.

    Cheers guys

  2. Senior Member
    PaulBlack's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,816
    Rep Power
    115625

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by AcePower View Post
    Based on all the previous bw he doesn't believe testosterone is the problem.
    So how do you know it is then?
    Just because numbers may show low results, that may not necessarily mean low test is specifically the problem. Maybe he/she wants to find out what is causing the drop or low readings before he just starts TRT??? If you have a situation where something is effecting natural test production, then as a doctor, finding out what that problem is, would be his first priority and to make you healthy, naturally.
    HRT is not just a take 2 aspirins and call me in the morning thing. Most doctors will not just prescribe these meds (especially to young people) until they exhaust a myriad of other possibilities to keep you functioning "naturally".
  3. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    So how do you know it is then?
    Just because numbers may show low results, that may not necessarily mean low test is specifically the problem. Maybe he/she wants to find out what is causing the drop or low readings before he just starts TRT??? If you have a situation where something is effecting natural test production, then as a doctor, finding out what that problem is, would be his first priority and to make you healthy, naturally.
    HRT is not just a take 2 aspirins and call me in the morning thing. Most doctors will not just prescribe these meds (especially to young people) until they exhaust a myriad of other possibilities to keep you functioning "naturally".
    That's what I'm hoping for, that he actually thoroughly looks into what's causing it. The previous guy didn't feel the readings were low so he sent me on my way as did a primary doctor. I obviously don't want to be on TRT if I can avoid it. So far I haven't been offered any alternative reasons for my symptoms other than "oh you're depressed" along with wanting me to take anti depressants.

    The problem is they won't look into it because they think my levels are fine. I'm hoping the endo is better but I'm not holding my breath.
    •   
       

  4. Senior Member
    PaulBlack's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,816
    Rep Power
    115625

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Well, they must have a reason if they believe your levels are fine!? Some people, and I am not saying you are not a different case and maybe you will find a doc that will go the extra mile, have differing levels of test readouts and will still be healthy.
    Another thing is when did they take blood from you? Usually "upon awakening in AM, is the best time for certain tests to be more accurate.
    Adding, your doc may have experiences with levels of this nature, or fluxuating levels not being a threat or considered actually low. Also it might not be a total test count, but free test etc etc. that he is considering!?
    I think you got to remember first and foremost, most doctors are not caring if your levels will have you BPing more. They are concerned with your health and welfare. That also covers their sworn oath and butt.
    You say you are more sedentary, do you feel you have actual "symptoms" of low test?
    I also would think they tested your thyroid!?

    I am not against looking for the right docs, or getting second and third opinions or ones that at least answer your questions. And if you are still curious about your issues, but if you keep getting the same answers across the board, then you probably have to take that as some kind of diagnosis!?
  5. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    Well, they must have a reason if they believe your levels are fine!? Some people, and I am not saying you are not a different case and maybe you will find a doc that will go the extra mile, have differing levels of test readouts and will still be healthy.
    Another thing is when did they take blood from you? Usually "upon awakening in AM, is the best time for certain tests to be more accurate.
    Adding, your doc may have experiences with levels of this nature, or fluxuating levels not being a threat or considered actually low. Also it might not be a total test count, but free test etc etc. that he is considering!?
    I think you got to remember first and foremost, most doctors are not caring if your levels will have you BPing more. They are concerned with your health and welfare. That also covers their sworn oath and butt.
    You say you are more sedentary, do you feel you have actual "symptoms" of low test?
    I also would think they tested your thyroid!?

    I am not against looking for the right docs, or getting second and third opinions or ones that at least answer your questions. And if you are still curious about your issues, but if you keep getting the same answers across the board, then you probably have to take that as some kind of diagnosis!?
    Look for why.levels are.low.and address it from.root cause. Problem with too.many Dr look at symptoms.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  6. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    I'm guessing their reasons are because I'm just below the range which they consider to be normal. I know people can have differing readings and still feel and be healthy but it seems pretty logical, I have the symptoms along with the low readings. I'm obviously not functioning correctly.

    Blood was taken in the morning, earliest was 8am and 2pm the latest. There wasn't much of a difference.

    They mentioned my free T is high but like I wrote in the first post they didn't do an actual measurement, just a ratio. The next bw should have a proper measurement so we'll see if it is in fact high.

    I've had the symptoms for years, mainly the fatigue. When I played soccer I had to give up the weights for half the year because I couldn't keep up with work, weights and soccer at the same time. Now I don't work at the moment and only lift weights but still feel tired all the time. And because I'm tired I don't have the motivation for anything. Add to that almost zero libido. If I didn't have free time and wasn't bored I wouldn't even look at porn which is the only time I think about sex. I feel neutered. Then there's mood swings, can't concentrate, when I bulk I just put on fat, strength is generally good but I lose it quickly as I do endurance/stamina. There's more but I don't know if it's directly related.

    Thyroid was tested and it's slightly hypo. The new endo has ordered a more thorough thyroid panel than the previous one did so we'll see how that is. I had an ultrasound done on it before and it seems fine.

    From what I've researched, read on HRT related forums, and the advice I've been given, I'm low for my age and the doctors should be looking for a cause. I forgot to mention that it's secondary not primary so it's more trickier to narrow down. I'll post bw tomorrow for opinions.
  7. Senior Member
    PaulBlack's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,816
    Rep Power
    115625

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Look for why.levels are.low.and address it from.root cause. Problem with too.many Dr look at symptoms.
    Could not agree more Matrix and not only look at but they treat them.
    Are you a wholistic guy?
  8. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    Could not agree more Matrix and not only look at but they treat them. Are you a wholistic guy?
    The term "holistic" is a new age term. I prefer functional medicine (still not the best), or integrative medicine (combines naturopathic with allopathic) it is much more medically accepted

    Been doing this for close to a decade with advising medical professionals around the world in these and other complex medical issues. Be surprised majority of cases are common sense.

    ExampleYoung teenage girl with acne all over her body and had insomina Been to countless medical professionals no explanation. Next step accutane. Parents got my number from some one else close to them.

    Ask her "what do you ate and drink during the day time?" 4-5 cokes and mainly fried or processed food. No doctor ever considered this because it was normal of a young teen to do

    .Explained how body can not process certain toxins. Liver gets over stressed the toxins come out of her skin resulting in out breaks on skin. Made simple behavioral and dietary changes, balanced neurotransmitters from caffeine with drawl, check for nutritional deficiency cause by years of caffeine consumption corrected them. Found out in 23andme she has genetic inability to detox caffeine in the first place. I then supported the proper path way. One month later acne is all but gone...DUH...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  9. Senior Member
    PaulBlack's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,816
    Rep Power
    115625

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Been doing this for close to a decade with advising medical professionals around the world in these and other complex medical issues. Be surprised majority of cases are common sense.ExampleYoung teenage girl with acne all over her body and had insomina Been to countless medical professionals no explanation. Next step accutane. Parents got my number from some one else close to them.Ask her "what do you ate and drink during the day time?" 4-5 cokes and mainly fried or processed food. No doctor ever considered this because it was normal of a young teen to do.Explained how body can not process certain toxins. Liver gets over stressed the toxins come out of her skin resulting in out breaks on skin. Made simple behavioral and dietary changes, balanced neurotransmitters from caffeine with drawl, check for nutritional deficiency cause by years of caffeine consumption corrected them. Found out in 23andme she has genetic inability to detox caffeine in the first place. I then supported the proper path way. One month later acne is all but gone...DUH...
    Good stuff and nice call guy...!

    Yep, it's the lamp isn't working scenario, as everyone tries to figure out the problem with the bulb or switch, when the dang thing is not plugged into the wall, but some people just don't look there...!
    I don't like to slam doctors and in fact I have a few as good friends, and many are doing what they are taught in med school etc., but I do ask many questions and like to find out or research why something is happening, before I just dive in.
  10. Senior Member
    PaulBlack's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,816
    Rep Power
    115625

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Be surprised majority of cases are common sense.
    True of most if not all stuff in life, actually.
  11. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    Good stuff and nice call guy...!

    Yep, it's the lamp isn't working scenario, as everyone tries to figure out the problem with the bulb or switch, when the dang thing is not plugged into the wall, but some people just don't look there...!
    I don't like to slam doctors and in fact I have a few as good friends, and many are doing what they are taught in med school etc., but I do ask many questions and like to find out or research why something is happening, before I just dive in.
    The problem is not the Drs but what is not being taught in Med schools. Its also the feared of getting sued. Why some times not having an medical degree one may be better off working with an open minded MD, DO, ND, shrink instead. Staying up on current trends of medicine is a full time job alone. After putting 12 hours days in the office last thing a Dr wants to do is go online and do research. Even ND are complaining about the inability to prescribe drugs. I thought you where suppose to use natural approach not drug based. Big Pharma is now financing ND schools go figure...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  12. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    All but the first set were done in the morning before 9 am

    02/Nov/11
    T.Testosterone - 9.7L nmol/L (range 12.0-32.0)
    SHBG - 12 nmol/L (10-73)
    Free Androgen Index - 81 (35-85)
    TSH - 3.5 mU/L (0.40-3.50)

    Haemogloblin - 160 (130-180)
    RCC - 5.5 (4.3-6.0)
    Haematocrit - 0.47 (0.37-0.53)
    MCV - 85 (80-100)
    MCH - 29 (27-33)
    MCHC - 341 (310-360)
    RDW - 12 (10-16)
    WCC - 7.3 (4.0-11.0)
    Neutrophils - 4.6 (2.0-7.5)
    Lymphocytes - 2.0 (1.0-4.0)
    Monocytes - 0.6 (<1.1)
    Eosinophils - 0.1 (<0.6)
    Basophils - <0.1 (<0.3)
    Platelets - 214 (150-450)
    ESR - 2 (1-15)


    Random Glucose - 5.5 (3.6-7.8)
    Sodium - 140 (135-146)
    Potassium - 5.3 (3.6-5.5)
    Chloride - 99 (98-110)
    Bicarbonate - 33 (22-32)
    Urea - 5.7 (2.2-8.3)
    Creat. - 107 (60-120)
    eGFR - 74 (>89)
    Total Protein - 77 (63-80)
    Albumin - 52 (37-50)
    Globulin - 25 (20-36)
    ALP - 87 (25-110)
    GGT - 26 (10-49)
    ALT - 43 (5-40)
    AST - 31 (5-40)
    LDH - 163 (100-310)
    T Bilirubin - 29 (1-20)


    06/Jan/12
    T.Testosterone - 9.5 (12-32)
    FSH - 1.8 (1-10)
    LH - 3.9 (2-12)
    TSH - 3.9 (0.4-3.5)
    Free T4 - 14.7 (10-23)

    02/Feb/12
    T.Testosterone - 12 (12-32)
    FSH - 1.9 (1-10)
    LH - 5.2 (2-12)
    Prolactin - 297 (<380)
    Growth Hormone - <0.5 (no range)
    IGF-1 - 42nmol/L (15-43)

    TSH - 3.8 (0.4-3.5)
    Free T4 - 13.9 (10-23)
    Microsomal Ab - 10 (0-35)
    Thyroglobulin Ab - 10 (0-115)

    Iron - 13.9 (9.5-29.9)
    Transferin - 2.4 (2-3.6)
    Trans Sat - 29% (18-46)
    Ferritin - 108 (30-400)


    21/Feb/12
    T.Testosterone - 8.08 (5.6-23.6) - a different laboratory did this set so the ranges are different but it's the same unit of measurement (nmol/L)
    FSH - 2.2 (0-9)
    LH - 2.5 (1-7)
    Prolactin - 246 (0-372)
    GH - <0.2 (0-10)
    IGF-1 - 39 (13-47)
    25 OH Vit D - 72 (31-107)

    Sodium - 139 (135-145)
    Potassium - 4.1 (3.6-5.1)
    Chloride - 99 (95-107)
    Hco3 - 30 (22-32)
    Urea - 7.4 (2.9-7.1)
    Creatinine - 93 (60-110)
    GFR - 86 (no range specified)
    Protein - 73 (61-79)
    Albumin - 45 (33-38)
    Bili Total - 21 (0-25)
    ALP - 75 (38-126)
    ALT - 46 (<45)
    AST - 34 (<45)
    GGT - 31 (0-50)
    Calcium - 2.41 (2.25-2.58)
    Ca Corr - 2.31 (2.25-2.58)
    Magnesium - 0.7 (0.74-1.03)


    05/Jun/12
    T.Testosterone - 9.3 (12-32)
    SHBG - 13 (10-73)
    TSH - 6.4 (0.4-3.5)
    Free T4 - 15.3 (10-23)

    04/Sep/12
    TSH - 3.2 (0.4 - 3.5)
    FreeT4 - 15.4 (10-23)
    Free T3 - 4.9 (3.9-6.8)
  13. Advanced Member
    vassille's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    968
    Rep Power
    48008

    Reputation

    thyroid looks suspicious TSH is consistently on the high side.
    LH is low. Have them check estrogen levels.
  14. Senior Member
    PaulBlack's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,816
    Rep Power
    115625

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I thought you where suppose to use natural approach not drug based. Big Pharma is now financing ND schools go figure...
    Getting well or being sick is big business
  15. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    I would look into iodine deficiency and adrenaline.related imbalances. In many of.my clients.correcting adrenals resolved thyroid issues. Need to.find.out why ...not use banded.approaches.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  16. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by vassille View Post
    thyroid looks suspicious TSH is consistently on the high side.
    LH is low. Have them check estrogen levels.
    I'll ask him about checking estrogen. It doesn't look like he ordered that test. Maybe I can convince the nurse to add that to the list when I go in for the blood draw.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I would look into iodine deficiency and adrenaline.related imbalances. In many of.my clients.correcting adrenals resolved thyroid issues. Need to.find.out why ...not use banded.approaches.
    Specifically what tests should I ask for to check my adrenal glands? And how do you correct them?

    And getting down to the bottom of the issue and then correcting it is what I want most.
  17. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    Testosterone - 8.5 (8.3-29)
    Free Testosterone - 29.1 (25-120)
    FSH - 2 (<7)
    LH - 1.6 (<7)
    OEST2 - 71 (<150)

    TSH - 5.5 (0.5-4.5)
    FT4 - 16 (10-20)
    FT3 - 4.4 (3.5-6)

    Prolactin - 214 (40-450)
    Serum CRP - <4 (<6)

    Sodium - 137 (135-145)
    Potassium - 4.2 (3.6-5.4)
    Chloride - 99 (97-110)
    Bicarbonate - 24 (21-30)
    Anion Gap - 18 (10-20)
    Urea - 10.9 (2.5-7.5)
    Creatinine - 100 (40-120)
    eGFR - >90
    Bilirubin - 28 (<20)
    AST - 32 (<35)
    ALT - 38 (<40)
    GGT - 12 (<40)
    Alkaline Phosphatase - 69 (35-110)
    Protein - 76 (65-85)
    Albumin - 51 (35-49)
    Globulin - 25 (22-38)


    HB - 151 (130-180)
    RCC - 5.1 (4.5-6.5)
    HCT - 0.45 (0.4-0.54)
    MCV - 87 (79.99)
    MCH - 29 (27-34)
    MCHC - 337 (320-360)
    RDW - 13.8 (10-17)
    PLAT - 200 (150-400)
    WBC - 6.8 (4-11)
    NEUT - 3.7 (2-7.5)
    LYMP - 2.3 (1-4)
    MONO - 0.6 (0.2-1)
    EOS - 0.1 (<0.7)
    BASO - 0.0 (<0.2)


    And confirmation that this guy won't help either and that he's an idiot. First he said he wants to prescribe me thyroxine to get my TSH down to 2 then five minutes later he says I don't need it. And he wants me to stop eating so much protein and up my carb intake because I said I'm on a low carb diet. And since I do intermittent fasting he wants me to eat smaller meals throughout the day. Time to arrange an appointment with my last option doctor.
  18. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    You are in UK what do.you expect.from the free health care system.lol
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  19. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    You are in UK what do.you expect.from the free health care system.lol
    Australia but same ****. Although this guy was free, the one before I had to pay out of pocket but got the same result.

    You mentioned iodine before. I've got an iodine oral spray which I was going to use but do you reckon I get checked for a deficiency before using it or would it be ok to start now and see if it makes a difference?
  20. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by AcePower View Post
    Australia but same ****. Although this guy was free, the one before I had to pay out of pocket but got the same result.

    You mentioned iodine before. I've got an iodine oral spray which I was going to use but do you reckon I get checked for a deficiency before using it or would it be ok to start now and see if it makes a difference?
    I usually start people out on 6.25 mgs of iodine, but I am also on the look out for heavy metal or bromide dumping which may occur in many people since they are loaded with them to begin with. This is where you need a skilled practitioner. If you are in Sydney look up Daine Mcdonald hes one of my contacts over there specialized in these types of issues. Actually have a meeting this week about arranging a trip over to Syndey to lectures to health professionals about what we do here in the USA. Be a nice 2 week trip

    Have a potential major inflammatory response which may be going on in your liver. CRP is too high despite range as well as you liver enyzme which gives a huge red flag. See this commonly in food allergies a lot or choleostasis or possible gall stones.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  21. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I usually start people out on 6.25 mgs of iodine, but I am also on the look out for heavy metal or bromide dumping which may occur in many people since they are loaded with them to begin with. This is where you need a skilled practitioner. If you are in Sydney look up Daine Mcdonald hes one of my contacts over there specialized in these types of issues. Actually have a meeting this week about arranging a trip over to Syndey to lectures to health professionals about what we do here in the USA. Be a nice 2 week trip

    Have a potential major inflammatory response which may be going on in your liver. CRP is too high despite range as well as you liver enyzme which gives a huge red flag. See this commonly in food allergies a lot or choleostasis or possible gall stones.
    The product I've got is called Iodine Forte - Potassium iodide 376mcg, equiv. to iodine 288mcg, equiv. to potassium 88mcg. Since that seems like a small dose compared to what you start your clients out on, there wouldn't be any harm in trying it?

    I'm near Sydney. I might get in touch with Daine but I'm guessing his service would be quite pricey.

    The endo's advice was to stop eating high protein. Other than that he said everything was fine, which means I'd have trouble convincing a GP to run further tests. My diet is mainly protein and fats with carbs mainly coming from vegetables. I don't eat grains/gluten (only occasionally) so if there is a food allergy I'm guessing it's from the dairy but I don't really have any problems with it physically.

    Would taking milk thistle or running some kind of liver detox help at all? And could this be causing the low testosterone levels?

    Good luck with the trip if you're coming here. Some of these fools (health practitioners) need a good lecturing. They seem so incompetent.
  22. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by AcePower View Post
    The product I've got is called Iodine Forte - Potassium iodide 376mcg, equiv. to iodine 288mcg, equiv. to potassium 88mcg. Since that seems like a small dose compared to what you start your clients out on, there wouldn't be any harm in trying it?

    I'm near Sydney. I might get in touch with Daine but I'm guessing his service would be quite pricey.

    The endo's advice was to stop eating high protein. Other than that he said everything was fine, which means I'd have trouble convincing a GP to run further tests. My diet is mainly protein and fats with carbs mainly coming from vegetables. I don't eat grains/gluten (only occasionally) so if there is a food allergy I'm guessing it's from the dairy but I don't really have any problems with it physically.

    Would taking milk thistle or running some kind of liver detox help at all? And could this be causing the low testosterone levels?

    Good luck with the trip if you're coming here. Some of these fools (health practitioners) need a good lecturing. They seem so incompetent.
    Had a case from a Dr who had a guy on trt gel.not.getting good results. Case was.referred out to.me. Ran food.sensitivity testing gluten and dairy came.up. Being typical.bodybuilder he was having massive amounts of whey protein shakes. Check.his rbc zinc was deficient as well was anemic low.iron. The calcium was binding with his iron and zinc plus causing gi stress resulting in malabsorptoon
    After removing the sensitivities correcting zinc and iron deficiency it was.time.for.him.to try a restart. on.gel tt was 210 once his gi and.deficiency was corrected total.t went.to upper 500's..The idea is.looking for the root cause and.not.just dealing with symptoms
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  23. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Had a case from a Dr who had a guy on trt gel.not.getting good results. Case was.referred out to.me. Ran food.sensitivity testing gluten and dairy came.up. Being typical.bodybuilder he was having massive amounts of whey protein shakes. Check.his rbc zinc was deficient as well was anemic low.iron. The calcium was binding with his iron and zinc plus causing gi stress resulting in malabsorptoon
    After removing the sensitivities correcting zinc and iron deficiency it was.time.for.him.to try a restart. on.gel tt was 210 once his gi and.deficiency was corrected total.t went.to upper 500's..The idea is.looking for the root cause and.not.just dealing with symptoms
    Wow that's quite a difference. I know of one Dr that does all those tests but he's quite expensive and the blood tests aren't covered by the consultation fee either. I'm gonna try to get my GP to order some vitamin deficiency and sensitivity tests.
  24. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by AcePower View Post
    Wow that's quite a difference. I know of one Dr that does all those tests but he's quite expensive and the blood tests aren't covered by the consultation fee either. I'm gonna try to get my GP to order some vitamin deficiency and sensitivity tests.
    I work with many open minded GP's looking for root cause. PM me
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  25. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    Some more bloods:

    Fast. Glucose - 5 (3.6-6.0)
    Total Protein - 77 (66-83)
    Albumin - 47 (37-50)
    Globulin - 30 (23-39)
    ALP - 65 (35-110)
    GGT - 15 (5-50)
    ALT - 39 (5-40)
    AST - 27 (10-40)
    LDH - 178 (120-250)
    T Bilirubin - 32 (4-20)


    Haemoglobin - 146 (130-180)
    RCC - 5.2 (4.5-6.5)
    Haematocrit - 0.45 (0.39-0.54)
    MCV - 86 (80-100)
    MCH - 28 (27-32)
    MCHC - 327 (310-360)
    RDW - 13 (10-15)
    WCC - 5.9 (4-11)
    Neutrophils - 3.7 (2-7.5)
    Lymphocytes - 1.7 (1-4)
    Monocytes - 0.5 (0-1)
    Eosinophils - <0.1 (0-0.5)
    Basophils - <0.1 - (0-0.3)
    Platelets - 204 (150-450)


    Vitamin B12 - 604 (>144)
    RBC Folate - 2136 (>776)


    Cholesterol - 5.33 (2.3-5.5
    Triglyceride - 0.43 (0-2)
    HDL - 1.98 (1-3)
    LDL - 3.2 (0.5-3.5)
    Chol/HDL Ratio - 2.7 (0-4.5)


    Still waiting on a couple of other results. Should have them by the end of the week.
  26. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I work with many open minded GP's looking for root cause. PM me
    Sent
  27. New Member
    5ft5andalive's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    32
    Rep Power
    37

    Reputation

    Look at your medication and diet. Diphenhydramine, a common sleep aid, ****s with GH and test
  28. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by 5ft5andalive View Post
    Look at your medication and diet. Diphenhydramine, a common sleep aid, ****s with GH and test
    I don't take any sort of medication. My diet is mainly meats, veggies and some dairy. Rarely have processed sugars, grains, etc. It's low carb, high protein, high fat. I don't smoke or drink.

    Here's some more results:

    P-Zinc - 16 (9-19)

    R-U-Creatinine - 5.4 nmol/L (no range given)
    Urine Iodine - 88 (>100 not deficient, 50-100 mild deficiency)

    These were taken on the same day as the previous test but I just got the results today.
    They were supposed to check my vitamin d but somehow missed it. Last year it was:

    25 OH Vit D - 72 (31-107)

    I'm going to start supplementing with some iodine potassium I think.
  29. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by AcePower View Post
    I don't take any sort of medication. My diet is mainly meats, veggies and some dairy. Rarely have processed sugars, grains, etc. It's low carb, high protein, high fat. I don't smoke or drink.Here's some more results:P-Zinc - 16 (9-19)R-U-Creatinine - 5.4 nmol/L (no range given)Urine Iodine - 88 (>100 not deficient, 50-100 mild deficiency)These were taken on the same day as the previous test but I just got the results today.They were supposed to check my vitamin d but somehow missed it. Last year it was:25 OH Vit D - 72 (31-107)I'm going to start supplementing with some iodine potassium I think.
    Number one you are probably using celtic seas salt with out iodine2. Your are creating a dopamine and sertotonin imbalance from your eating plan as well as potential estrogen issues and other nutritional imbalances 3. ZRT 24 hour spot iodine is much more accurate then spot. You are probably severly deficient in the tissue4. Plasma zinc is use less need RBC 5. Need more further evaluation. Dr is not even skimping the top of your issue. I have been invited with my colleague to Syndey and Melbourne to lecture on MTHFR and methylation and it's can impact current health issues to MD, DO, ND in mid summer when its your guys winter . It will be a nice vacation as well ...Long plane ride.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  30. New Member
    AcePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    31

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Number one you are probably using celtic seas salt with out iodine2. Your are creating a dopamine and sertotonin imbalance from your eating plan as well as potential estrogen issues and other nutritional imbalances 3. ZRT 24 hour spot iodine is much more accurate then spot. You are probably severly deficient in the tissue4. Plasma zinc is use less need RBC 5. Need more further evaluation. Dr is not even skimping the top of your issue. I have been invited with my colleague to Syndey and Melbourne to lecture on MTHFR and methylation and it's can impact current health issues to MD, DO, ND in mid summer when its your guys winter . It will be a nice vacation as well ...Long plane ride.
    1. I've just started using iodised sea salt which has 0.045mg iodine per 1.5 grams. I've also started supplementing with this product - w w w.bioceuticals(dot)com.au/product/preview/Iodine-Forte

    2. Please go into more detail if you can. What's wrong with my diet?

    3/4. Fair enough. I was getting these blood tests done following the little tid-bits of information you've given me in this thread. These doctor's won't look into it and probably don't know what to look for anyway. And the ones that do know, I can't afford at the moment.

    Good luck with the trip, maybe you'll be in luck and the weather will hold up nice otherwise it will just be gloomy and wet.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. 25 Year Old Male - Low T - Need Help
    By zippybing in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-03-2008, 11:08 AM
  2. Need Help Finding The Right One
    By bk21091 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-31-2008, 03:46 PM
  3. please i need help for the summer
    By RoiD RaGe in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-26-2008, 11:01 AM
  4. Need Help from the experts
    By vika808 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 11-25-2007, 11:42 AM
  5. Low Test NEED HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!please
    By dirtysouthmuscl in forum Supplements
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-01-2006, 11:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in