Low DHEA, Hard Gainer

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    Low DHEA, Hard Gainer


    My saliva DHEA levels were within the reference rages, but at the very minimum for every our tested. Cortisol checked out pretty good though. Woried if these low levels of DHEA can be better for a 30 yo male. Libido and drive are hardly present. I am trying to see if there is a possible correlation here with my low DHEA.

    Also, no matter how much I lift and eat, I cannot seem to put on weight. Can this be related to low DHEA? Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3 View Post
    My saliva DHEA levels were within the reference rages, but at the very minimum for every our tested. Cortisol checked out pretty good though. Woried if these low levels of DHEA can be better for a 30 yo male. Libido and drive are hardly present. I am trying to see if there is a possible correlation here with my low DHEA.

    Also, no matter how much I lift and eat, I cannot seem to put on weight. Can this be related to low DHEA? Thanks.
    No the problem is due to what is causing the DHEA to be low. Low Dhea= compromised immune system, over training from stressed adrenals. You need to look at adrenal function as well as neurotransmitters. If you can not gain weight there are multiple factors which need to be explored mainly focusing on GI tract as well as thyroid,adrenals, sex hormones, and immune system.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Alright, thanks Matrix. Out of desperation yesterday, I bough some cheap DHEA and took two 50mg doses. Can't say I noticed much from it except maybe a slight rush. I'll just toss the rest though and explore these other avenues.
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    Matrix,

    Do you recommend taking hormones hormones at all in this case? I was thinking maybe pregnenolone for both brain support and stressed adrenals.
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    You are approaching it all wrong and potentially doing more harm then good ..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    No I'm not. I'm placing an emphasis on diet and lifestyle, but I'm also looking at other potential avenues. I'll stay away from the hormones for now though. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3
    No I'm not. I'm placing an emphasis on diet and lifestyle, but I'm also looking at other potential avenues. I'll stay away from the hormones for now though. Thanks.
    Good to here. Still need to.identify potential.root causes with adrenal and immune imbalances top of the lists. I see it all the time mainly with hidden inflammation
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3 View Post
    No I'm not. I'm placing an emphasis on diet and lifestyle, but I'm also looking at other potential avenues. I'll stay away from the hormones for now though. Thanks.
    What kind of diet and life style you deem good?
    a bit more info
    For example if your body is under nurished and over trained nothing good comes out of it...not saying you are in this position but cant rule it out either.
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    I am on a paleo/primal diet. I think this i sa good diet for me, I just need to adjust somethings and keep the carbs down. I also need to eliminate stimulants, which I hope to do soon.

    I have been working out once a week and it has been light stuff. I think that my adrenals are in too bad a shape to really work out more than that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3 View Post
    I am on a paleo/primal diet. I think this i sa good diet for me, I just need to adjust somethings and keep the carbs down. I also need to eliminate stimulants, which I hope to do soon.

    I have been working out once a week and it has been light stuff. I think that my adrenals are in too bad a shape to really work out more than that.
    If you have insurance there are ways we can look deeper in to issues and get to bottom of things. Do not be fooled at the Neuro immun endocrine system all work in harmony. People are so focused on hormones they tend go down these pathway which in some cases are needed , but majority of time is not. It can potentially lead to missing other issues which come to bite you back later.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3 View Post
    I am on a paleo/primal diet. I think this i sa good diet for me, I just need to adjust somethings and keep the carbs down. I also need to eliminate stimulants, which I hope to do soon.

    I have been working out once a week and it has been light stuff. I think that my adrenals are in too bad a shape to really work out more than that.
    Ok, how much food do you eat approx....how much fat/pro/carbs?
    Reason im asking is that when I started bodybuilding I was 165lbs and I got up as high as 270. Im about the same height as you. I looked scronny skinny till I started to eat.
    Food for me is key, when im not eating properly I feel the effects right the way by droping weight, poor recovery etc. but when I eat right I put on weight somewhat fast. It's like on on/off switch.

    The one thing I hear ppl say no matter how much I eat I dont gain weight....I dont agree with it!
    If you eat enough you will get fat then you know you eat enough...if you dont reach that threshold then you are not eating enough or you not digesting what you eating properly..one or the other.
    Hope you understand my point
    Just let me know how much you eat and I'll let you know what to try out within the diet you been following.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille
    Ok, how much food do you eat approx....how much fat/pro/carbs?
    Reason im asking is that when I started bodybuilding I was 165lbs and I got up as high as 270. Im about the same height as you. I looked scronny skinny till I started to eat.
    Food for me is key, when im not eating properly I feel the effects right the way by droping weight, poor recovery etc. but when I eat right I put on weight somewhat fast. It's like on on/off switch.

    The one thing I hear ppl say no matter how much I eat I dont gain weight....I dont agree with it!
    If you eat enough you will get fat then you know you eat enough...if you dont reach that threshold then you are not eating enough or you not digesting what you eating properly..one or the other.
    Hope you understand my point
    Just let me know how much you eat and I'll let you know what to try out within the diet you been following.
    Depends on too.many variables which need to.be taken into.consideration
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Depends on too.many variables which need to.be taken into.consideration
    of course but food is the easiest to try out before going to the more serious issues
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    I don't have my macronutrients broken down, never been good at that, but I can honestly say that I don't eat a lot. If you can give me some ideas for food, were you on a paleo diet, that would be great. Part of my problem is the paranoia that comes with knowing that you have a digestive problem, because I have candida, and possibly parasites, and most likely leaky gut, so I am worried about allergic food even though I dont have labs indicating an allergic reaction. I gave up eggs because of this worry. I love milk, but I am lactose intolerant. I gave up whey and protein shakes in general because of similar worries.

    I am down to a pretty small group of foods that I am comfortable with, and it is not filling nor fullfilling you know what I mean. Part of my problem is this limiting diet and another part is poor digestion and assimilation. Seems like whatever I try and whatever supp I take I don't make much ground at all. You put on an impressive amount of weight. I think I can add another 10 to 15 pounds and be comfortable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3 View Post
    I don't have my macronutrients broken down, never been good at that, but I can honestly say that I don't eat a lot. If you can give me some ideas for food, were you on a paleo diet, that would be great. Part of my problem is the paranoia that comes with knowing that you have a digestive problem, because I have candida, and possibly parasites, and most likely leaky gut, so I am worried about allergic food even though I dont have labs indicating an allergic reaction. I gave up eggs because of this worry. I love milk, but I am lactose intolerant. I gave up whey and protein shakes in general because of similar worries.

    I am down to a pretty small group of foods that I am comfortable with, and it is not filling nor fullfilling you know what I mean. Part of my problem is this limiting diet and another part is poor digestion and assimilation. Seems like whatever I try and whatever supp I take I don't make much ground at all. You put on an impressive amount of weight. I think I can add another 10 to 15 pounds and be comfortable.
    Thanks!
    if I can go to 270 from 165 it should be no problem for you to put on 10-15 lbs
    Idk if my diet is paleo per say but the one thing which I started to have an issue with were carbs. So I dropped most starches except steel oats, and I still take a maltodextrin shake once in a while. I do eat fruit occasionally but no sugar or other simple carbs. Most of my calories came from fat saturated and unsaturated I dont discriminate and a fair amount of protein. If you have lactose issues buy whey protein isolate. It works fine for ppl like you and me.
    the rest of the diet:nuts, eggs, chesse, cream, all meats, tuna, coconut oil, olive oil and the list goes on and select veggies. I dont eat anyhthing low or no fat. If im going to hell im going in style..lol (Im just joking but not about the full fat foods
    If you decide to take the plunge and eat like this I will help you out with what to eat when to eat so you can gain along with exercise and all that fun stuff.
    Dont worry there is nothing wrong with eating eggs and such ..it's actually the sugars and some of the starches that cause problems I've tested them already the difference is like night and day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3
    I am on a paleo/primal diet. I think this i sa good diet for me, I just need to adjust somethings and keep the carbs down. I also need to eliminate stimulants, which I hope to do soon.

    I have been working out once a week and it has been light stuff. I think that my adrenals are in too bad a shape to really work out more than that.
    If you're only lifting lifting once a week you aren't going to have many gains in regards o muscle growth. Especially if your doing only "light" weight.

    I doubt hormones are the problem here...sounds more like training/ diet.

    I have naturally T levels of 172 n/dl and went from 125 when I graduated high school to 195 all naturally by eating like a pig and doing a hypertrophy/ strength based program for several years.
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    Yeap the way it works from my experience is like this:
    1. if you have low hormons eating food a bit more in abundance will make up for it especially fats.
    2. If you have high hormon levels you can get by with eating less because it makes up for the difference in hormons.
    3. If you have high hormons and eat a lot you blow up.
    4.If you have low hormons and dont eat you can overtrain and prob lose muscle.

    I have heard ppl like you with low test making gains. I think is attribuited to HGH and IGF among other things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille
    Yeap the way it works from my experience is like this:
    1. if you have low hormons eating food a bit more in abundance will make up for it especially fats.
    2. If you have high hormon levels you can get by with eating less because it makes up for the difference in hormons.
    3. If you have high hormons and eat a lot you blow up.
    4.If you have low hormons and dont eat you can overtrain and prob lose muscle.

    I have heard ppl like you with low test making gains. I think is attribuited to HGH and IGF among other things.
    No doubt, vassille. I agree 100 percent. My igf-1 levels were near the top of the scale when I had them tested by an endo last year. I think that my body can compensate for natural low T due to this--to some extent anyway.

    Now I'm on TRT on 100mg t cyp every 6-7 days and I feel nice. However, I definitely had the t levels to warrant it. I wasn't looking for TRT by any means @ 27 years old.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    No doubt, vassille. I agree 100 percent. My igf-1 levels were near the top of the scale when I had them tested by an endo last year. I think that my body can compensate for natural low T due to this--to some extent anyway.

    Now I'm on TRT on 100mg t cyp every 6-7 days and I feel nice. However, I definitely had the t levels to warrant it. I wasn't looking for TRT by any means @ 27 years old.
    It's interesting how eveybody is different and how our bodies adapt. HGH plays an important role in muscle building and muscle preservation. THere are people who have medium testosterone but their bodies are very efficient in using it.
    I know 27 is young for HRT but you must do what works for you
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille View Post
    It's interesting how eveybody is different and how our bodies adapt. HGH plays an important role in muscle building and muscle preservation. THere are people who have medium testosterone but their bodies are very efficient in using it.
    I know 27 is young for HRT but you must do what works for you
    When it comes to GI issues I am one of the best guys around to ask about those. As I knew it was immune system related as soon as I saw the DHEA down. Work on the GI tract if you need assistance PM me because there are things going on behind the scenes which most Drs will never look for which are crucial for proper recovery.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    When it comes to GI issues I am one of the best guys around to ask about those. As I knew it was immune system related as soon as I saw the DHEA down. Work on the GI tract if you need assistance PM me because there are things going on behind the scenes which most Drs will never look for which are crucial for proper recovery.
    I can def say Matrix that ever since I changed my diet I noticed a vast improvement in my digestive track. From your experience what role does carbs, sugars in speacial play in GI track issues if any?
    When I used to eat mostly carbs for energy my body respoded pooprly to nutrition uptake I felt, eating more fat instead of carbs changed that...
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille View Post
    I can def say Matrix that ever since I changed my diet I noticed a vast improvement in my digestive track. From your experience what role does carbs, sugars in speacial play in GI track issues if any?
    When I used to eat mostly carbs for energy my body respoded pooprly to nutrition uptake I felt, eating more fat instead of carbs changed that...
    It depends upon the person, some people with liver issues can not handle higher fat content till you get bile going and make sure the pancrease has proper enzymatic response. Why I work on absorption first along with supplementing the proper foundations even before suggesting HRT. Trying to build house on a weak foundations its just going to collapse.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I have some whey isolate on the way! Honestly I miss protein shakes, especially post workout even though I seem to recover well on a paleo diet. Like you said, I don't think that whey will be a problem either and may even help the GI tract. A small prtion of fruit a day has been good with me in the past as well, this with the paleo diet.

    I already use coconut oil and got the meats covered. I started eating eggs again this week and I feel fine so far. Cream seems to be a problem for me though and cheese not so much, but I'm not sure about it especially if it has casein. I love tuna, but I'm worried about mercury, as some tuna is supposed to have some of the highest levels of it in food.

    Thanks for pointing things out. If I can lose some of the paranoia, maybe I can put on some pounds.
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    I can't train too hard because I pay the price. I can't sleep at all on workout days especially if I go too hard. And if I can't sleep well it's not worth putting in the time. I do want to train more, but I guess I am not healthy enough.

    Any ideas?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3 View Post
    I can't train too hard because I pay the price. I can't sleep at all on workout days especially if I go too hard. And if I can't sleep well it's not worth putting in the time. I do want to train more, but I guess I am not healthy enough.

    Any ideas?
    We create our own stress rather then just take a deep breath and relax. I had a girl who was so obessed with competiting and losing weight, no matter what I did was diet and cardio worked. I finally pulled her aside and told her to take a good look from outside looking in to see if it was worth it. Her relationship ,work, social life was all suffering which was now effecting her significant other. Once she pulled her self back and saw this her weight dropped and she is doing much better. She has put competing off for a while to work on her self and her relationship plain old having fun. Do not make it a second job.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3
    I can't train too hard because I pay the price. I can't sleep at all on workout days especially if I go too hard. And if I can't sleep well it's not worth putting in the time. I do want to train more, but I guess I am not healthy enough.

    Any ideas?
    Yeah, I have an idea. I'm going to say this is the nicest way I can think of, please do not take offense:

    Man the fck up.

    After reading this thread all I see are excuses.

    You can't sleep? If you train hard enough, your body WILL tell you when it wants to sleep.

    Pay the price? Most of us pay the price every f'ing day.

    Not healthy enough? Train more, and better.

    If you want it bad enough, you can get it.

    If this s.hit were easy, everybody would be an Adonis

    <---not trying to be a d.ick, although it may seem that way..,
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    So you read a couple of post and conclude that I am not not being man enough?

    I have an idea. Go f.uck yourself douche bag. I hope the next time you're bench pressing you drop the bar of your meathead you ignorant c.unt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3
    So you read a couple of post and conclude that I am not not being man enough?

    I have an idea. Go f.uck yourself douche bag. I hope the next time you're bench pressing you drop the bar of your meathead you ignorant c.unt.
    Clever

    Did you feel this way before or after you edited this post?

    What I'm trying to say is that you need to put the work in. Can you honestly say you've done that? Show me someone who says they are a 'hardgainer' and I'll show you someone who doesn't eat enough, or train hard enough. I understand you may have some stomach issues but you know what? So do I, I have ulcerative colitis and am in the hospital ~twice a year for 7-10 days. My freaking stomach is so bad that the doc says I'm going to have to have part of my intestines removed, yeah, REMOVED in the next 10 yrs or so

    But you know what? I find out what I can tolerate eating, eat a s.hit ton of it and get my ass back in the gym.

    You CAN do it if you want to, you just have to want it bad enough

    So yeah, man up

    Good luck
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    Only edited it so that you can read the c.unt part instead of ****. Unfortunately it's not as easy as "man up." The reason that my health is the way that it is, is because of the "man up" attitude towards things. I don't do that anymore.

    I come here to talk with people and get ideas, and maybe share some knowledge if I have it. I don't need some "tough guy" telling me to "man up" especially when they have no clue what other variables are in play in my life or what I've been through.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3
    Only edited it so that you can read the c.unt part instead of ****. Unfortunately it's not as easy as "man up." The reason that my health is the way that it is, is because of the "man up" attitude towards things. I don't do that anymore.

    I come here to talk with people and get ideas, and maybe share some knowledge if I have it. I don't need some "tough guy" telling me to "man up" especially when they have no clue what other variables are in play in my life or what I've been through.
    No, your original post said 'i know what you mean' I'm sure someone else saw it as well

    Whatever dude,

    Take control of life, don't let it control you

    Good luck...
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    NO. That was directed to the Matrix's post. I'll post it again if it makes you feel better.

    And I am taking control of my life. Good riddance.
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    I know what you mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    We create our own stress rather then just take a deep breath and relax. I had a girl who was so obessed with competiting and losing weight, no matter what I did was diet and cardio worked. I finally pulled her aside and told her to take a good look from outside looking in to see if it was worth it. Her relationship ,work, social life was all suffering which was now effecting her significant other. Once she pulled her self back and saw this her weight dropped and she is doing much better. She has put competing off for a while to work on her self and her relationship plain old having fun. Do not make it a second job.
    I know what you mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elit3 View Post
    I have some whey isolate on the way! Honestly I miss protein shakes, especially post workout even though I seem to recover well on a paleo diet. Like you said, I don't think that whey will be a problem either and may even help the GI tract. A small prtion of fruit a day has been good with me in the past as well, this with the paleo diet.

    I already use coconut oil and got the meats covered. I started eating eggs again this week and I feel fine so far. Cream seems to be a problem for me though and cheese not so much, but I'm not sure about it especially if it has casein. I love tuna, but I'm worried about mercury, as some tuna is supposed to have some of the highest levels of it in food.

    Thanks for pointing things out. If I can lose some of the paranoia, maybe I can put on some pounds.
    With the cheese try aged cheese it has less lactose and should be less of a problem. Another thing is to not mix fruit with protein. It creates gas in most ppl. If you can handle eggs that's good eat up as many as you want. Coconut oil is great, add some nuts like walnuts, almonds. Yea tuna has mercury so limit it to 2-3 servings a week and try some salmon in between. Also add some organic mayo to your diet with chicken salad or egg salad. All these calories will add up.
    Pure whey isolate will delp you like I said in nother past it's easy to digest even being lactose inntolerant.

    Did you try heavy cream or half and half?
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    Good stuff man. I'll incorporate some of these things soon. Was thinking salmon too.

    I tried heavy cream a while back and got some lactose from it. Same with half and half is the same. Thanks.
  

  
 

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