PES Erase TRT - AnabolicMinds.com

PES Erase TRT

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    PES Erase TRT


    Would like to hear peoples experiences. Lots of people have troubles with adex and getting to a stable point. Anyone had any luck with Erase while on TRT?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vincentv View Post
    Would like to hear peoples experiences. Lots of people have troubles with adex and getting to a stable point. Anyone had any luck with Erase while on TRT?
    when dialed in properly on HRT on should not have issues stablizing e2, Could be alot of underlying factors to why which need to be further investigated.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    there is some people on this forum who do use Erase. Use the search option
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanzdslpwr1 View Post
    there is some people on this forum who do use Erase. Use the search option
    If body fat is over 20% aromatase will increase. Instead of fueling it with another substance focus on proper eating, and lifestyle, stress management. People are always looking for the quick way out instead of working for it. Short term satifiscation, but never long term gradification. . Today guys are piling 2-3 grams of test at 20-25 years old having no clue of proper training or nutrition. I just sit back and laugh at so called "wanna be"s. As long as I can squat around 600, dead lift 600 and bench close to 400 (when shoulder is up to par) at nearly 40 be at <10% at around 200 lbs I am happy. Been there done that.. I probably competed against Fansz back in the day since I did a mess load of jersey show over the years..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I took finasteride, now my estrogens are too high compared to my testosterone. My body fat is low, diet is excellet.

    I asked one of the guys about his experience with pes, for some reason he told me to create a new thread and did not answer me in regards to his experience.

    My free cortisol is very low but blood cortisol is very high due to high levels of transcortin which is controled by estrogens.

    I am looking for a flexible way to reduce estrogens, I have hit the sweetspot once with arimidex and got my libido back. But this is hard to do and often get sore joints.

    This PES Erase does not seem so strong and I prefer the idea of suicidal aromatize inhibitor. I am hoping I can hit the sweet spot with it easily.

    Even if I take 40mg test E3D this is too much as my estrogens will go up and will feel like crap. Appetite drops to nothing. Now I am on 15 mg E2D. At this level my estrogens are not too high but still 0 libido and low free cortisol.

    My body fat is probably 12 percent. Thanks to finasteride I grew some love handles that will not go away even if I drop 10 kilos of muscle.

    First week of TRT at 32.5MG E3D felt great first week. Then after a week bam feel **** because of high estrogens lower free cortisol.

    I have read all the threads on this forum.
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    Cases of finisteride most likely involve neurotransmitter modulation, estrogen control and metabolism, gi tract issues, down regulation of inflammation.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Hormones control neurotransmitters, estrogen controls cortisol and therefore digestion and GI issues. Cortisol controls inflimation.

    So one screwed up hormone can cause a wide range of problems. I was 100% healthy before I took it. Within a couple weeks I was screwed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincentv View Post
    Hormones control neurotransmitters,
    Really? Then what hormone controls serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter, as it is released by a stimulated presynaptic nerve cell and acts on its neighboring postsynaptic cell?


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    I agree, but one needs to address all.issues not just hormonal this is why medicine fails they look at one area not addressing others.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Upregulation of estrogen seems to be the problem causing all symptoms. All symptoms can be explained by high estrogens and low free cortisol.

    Finasteride takes out your 5ar enzyme, this then causes a backup in test. I think about 10 percent of total test is converted to DHT and only 1 percent to E. So there is a large backup of E2, this causes the loss of libido and all the problems. When users stop their E2 goes back down if they are lucky and return to normal. For the rest of us, aromataze remains overactive, this lowers LH, increases SHBG, CBG, TBG. And the result is your left as an impotent shell of a person with a whole host of problems.

    Now the question is, is it that simple, has aromataze just been upregulated as a result of using the drug and now it is not going down by itself. Or is there some other issue causing an increase in aromatase activity. If their is I would like to know what it is.

    I can not imagine another mechanism in which finasteride upregulates aromataze.

    Their are plenty of articles that talk about the mechanisms in which hormones control your brain steroids. Every dude who knows a little broscience will tell you how T increases dopamine.

    If you want to test this for yourself, go off any trt you may be on. Apply estradiol cream daily. You will turn into a fruit loop. Or for that matter, just down some clomid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincentv View Post
    Upregulation of estrogen seems to be the problem causing all symptoms. All symptoms can be explained by high estrogens and low free cortisol.

    Finasteride takes out your 5ar enzyme, this then causes a backup in test. I think about 10 percent of total test is converted to DHT and only 1 percent to E. So there is a large backup of E2, this causes the loss of libido and all the problems. When users stop their E2 goes back down if they are lucky and return to normal. For the rest of us, aromataze remains overactive, this lowers LH, increases SHBG, CBG, TBG. And the result is your left as an impotent shell of a person with a whole host of problems.

    Now the question is, is it that simple, has aromataze just been upregulated as a result of using the drug and now it is not going down by itself. Or is there some other issue causing an increase in aromatase activity. If their is I would like to know what it is.

    I can not imagine another mechanism in which finasteride upregulates aromataze.

    Their are plenty of articles that talk about the mechanisms in which hormones control your brain steroids. Every dude who knows a little broscience will tell you how T increases dopamine.

    If you want to test this for yourself, go off any trt you may be on. Apply estradiol cream daily. You will turn into a fruit loop. Or for that matter, just down some clomid.
    Many people have high testosterone and low dopamine, I have seen it many times. When dealing with numerous medical cases on a weekly basis who see everything and anything. I am very familiar with how finisteride works. I have had Dr's cases I have worked on that just few days this drug destroyed people. Others being on it for hair loss ended up with scar tissue on their junk which causes lack of blood flow . It also resulted in a causing structure damage resulting it to bend when it does get erected. When you see grown men breaking down in the office crying because they basically are castrated losing their man hood it very disturbing. Most people with fini have optimal T and good e2, shbg which makes these challenging cases which you need to look out side the normal realm of hormones into neurotransmitters, and immune system.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    How are you measuring dopamine?

    The total lack of androgens can cause physical changes in sexual anatomy. Lucky I am fine in that department.

    When you say good e2 and shbg, what is your criteria for good? Do you ever measure free E2 via siliva tests?

    You will actually find transcortin is a very good measure of e2 actions they use it to measure exactly how potent estrogenic compunds are.



    Thanks
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    I did a cut-and-paste from another site. This adds credence to hormones affecting neurotransmitters. The interplay between dopamine (increases with test levels) and the reduction in serotonin as dopamine increases was interesting. I stand corrected...


    1. Testosterone can increase dopamine levels in the brain.
    2. Increasing dopamine levels may reduce serotonin levels - since their production is inversely related.
    3. Serotonin help reduce perceived stress and helps reduce anxiety symptoms.
    4. Reduction in serotonin level may increase the likelihood of perceived stress and anxiety.
    5. Increased perceived stress and anxiety may cause the brain to increase Adrenocorticotropic Hormone (ACTH) release.
    6. The ACTH signal is received by the adrenal glands, which in turn starts the stress response (including increasing cortisol, norepinephrine, epinephrine production, among the 50 hormones produced by the adrenals).
    7. Increased perceived stress may activate the sympathetic nervous system, which then increases output of norepinephrine from the brain as part of the fight-or-flight reaction.
    8. Increased testosterone may also lead to aromatization of testosterone to estradiol/estrone (estrogens).
    9. Estrogens have multiple effects including behavioral effects such as increasing anxiety, irritability, hyperactivity and aggression.
    10. Estrogen increases the expression of receptors and other associated proteins for neurotransmitters including serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine.
    11. Reduction in serotonin level from increased dopamine levels may affect thyroid hormone conversion in the liver from T4 to T3 via the cytochrome P450 2D6 enzyme.
    12. Reduction in active thyroid hormone may destabilize mood - perhaps contribute to anxiety, hyperactivity
    13. Estrogen itself may compete with thyroid hormone at the thyroid hormone receptor site - creating a virtual hypothyroid state - perhaps also contributing to anxiety - despite normal thyroid hormone levels.
    14. Remeron's mechanism of action includes increasing serotonin release, increasing norepinephrine release (at higher doses), and by blocking histamine receptors (accounting for sleepiness and weight gain at lower doses).
    15. Remeron, in my experience, does not work well to reduce anxiety.
    16. Increased norepinephrine levels from Remeron makes a person more likely to have anxiety when norepinephrine is further increased and serotonin decreased - from other causes - such as those written above.
    17. The higher the dose of Remeron, the higher the increase in norepinephrine, the higher the likelihood of anxiety.
    18. One of testosterone's functions is to reduce stress by reducing ACTH production from the brain and by directly reducing adrenal gland hormone production (i.e. reducing cortisol production).
    19. Should the adrenal gland, from long term exposure to anabolic steriods, become tolerant to the effects of testosterone, testosterone may not be able to reduce stress and anxiety.
    20. Adrenal insufficiency may occur from long term anabolic steriod use - where the adrenals cannot make adequate cortisol and other hormones as needed when stressed to handle stress.
    21. Adrenal insufficiency/fatigue results in intolerance of stress, fatigue, chronic sleepiness, irritability, anxiety.
    22. Tolerance to testosterone's effects in the brain may occur with long term anabolic steriod use.
    23. Testosterone usually has a calming effect. This may not occur if tolerance occurs to testosterone.
    24. With adrenal fatigue, progesterone levels are reduced.
    25. Progesterone is being shunted to create more cortisol in adrenal fatigue.
    26. Progesterone has a mood stabilizing, calming, antidepressant, sleep-promoting effects through several mechanisms of action.
    27. Progesterone increases seroronin, norepinephrine, GABA, dopamine activity in the brain. Progesterone blocks NMDA Glutamate receptors. Progesterone promotes myelination of nerves to improve signal transmission. Progesterone increases Estrogen receptor sensitivity. Progesterone promotes thyroid hormone activity.
    28. Low progesterone levels may lead to increased anxiety, insomnia, tension, and mood instability.
    29. Low testosterone levels and high cortisol levels (as a result), may lead to insulin resistance.
    30. Insulin resistance not only predisposes one to diabetes, it impairs neuron signal transmission, and directly reduces testosterone production.
    31. Insulin resistance may increase the likelihood of mood instability, anxiety, depression.
    32. A serotonin-reuptake inhibitor (a group of medications with many members) increases serotonin more specifically than other effects.
    33. Increasing serotonin has a calming effect.
    33. Increasing serotonin excessively, however, causes a reduction in dopamine production.
    34. Excessive serotonin, and subsequent reduction in dopamine causes a motor movement disorder called akathisia.
    35. Akathisia has symptoms including anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, restlessness, hyperactivity, agitation (to the point of suicide attempts by some people).
    36. When attempting to balance or optimize the effects of one hormone/neurotransmitter, one may have to balance or optmize the effects of others to obtain the desired state. Testosterone, Estrogen, Progesterone, Cortisol, Insulin, Thyroid Hormone, Dihydrotestosterone, the metabolites of progesterone, Norepinephrine, Epinephrine, Serotonin, Dopamine, GABA (gamma amino butyric acid), Glutamate, Histamine, etc. are highly interlinked in their effects - with the endpoint of allowing a person to maintain balance between health and the stress the person faces.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincentv View Post
    How are you measuring dopamine?

    The total lack of androgens can cause physical changes in sexual anatomy. Lucky I am fine in that department.

    When you say good e2 and shbg, what is your criteria for good? Do you ever measure free E2 via siliva tests?

    You will actually find transcortin is a very good measure of e2 actions they use it to measure exactly how potent estrogenic compunds are.



    Thanks
    I have been measuring urinary out put for several years. Using the person symptoms, along with testing results one can see the correlations to make the best recommendations for supporting the right balance. Cases where people have healthy T levels even on TRT feel lack of motivation, desire, zests once dopamine is supported as well as other neurotransmitters these symptoms improve. As symptoms improve there is a correlation in the urine to confirm it. The results have been very promising as well as been medically validated with top university (harvard,ect) and well respected medical professionals. Yes I know about the relationships between CBG and also TBG are good markers. Saliva estrodial is an invalid reading for males. Urinary out put 24 hour would be a better indicator.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    208.109.208.90/Images/Results.gif
    208.109.208.90/Images/cortisol.gif

    While we are at it. I should add in my test results. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

    Yes finasteride can really **** people over. And it is too bad I got screwed over by this drug. If I took up crack instead of propecia I would probably be in a better state today.
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    Oh by the way. I have never read much into it by why is siliva estrogen testing bad. I read one paper which showed a correlation between free sex hormones and siliva levels.
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    Erase will certainly help with estrogen, and if its elevated you will experience an increase in libido.

    Is this the underlying problem? Maybe not, but it would certainly help if E is high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincentv View Post
    Oh by the way. I have never read much into it by why is siliva estrogen testing bad. I read one paper which showed a correlation between free sex hormones and siliva levels.
    One paper is not enough evidence to convince me or other health professionals. As mentioned urine testing would be more medically validated and accepted. Any AI would work, but need to look for why its out of balance.

    If supplement was so good at lower e2 then more Dr's would be using it. I would love to have people on TRT who are have elevated e2 use erase to monitor the results. When a supplements claims to do something then let's put it to a test in a clincally controlled environment.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    One paper is not enough evidence to convince me or other health professionals. As mentioned urine testing would be more medically validated and accepted. Any AI would work, but need to look for why its out of balance.

    If supplement was so good at lower e2 then more Dr's would be using it. I would love to have people on TRT who are have elevated e2 use erase to monitor the results. When a supplements claims to do something then let's put it to a test in a clincally controlled environment.
    Not to harp on your point... but I find it ironic someone who works with doctors believe they will point someone to an otc supplement rather than a prescription.

    Considering the sheer amount of crap doctors receive from pharma companies, do you really believe they would point people to something what wouldn't benefit them in any way? My sister is a pharma rep and I know what doctors receive from reps.

    And just to be clear, I am not someone who despises big pharma like others around here do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Not to harp on your point... but I find it ironic someone who works with doctors believe they will point someone to an otc supplement rather than a prescription.

    Considering the sheer amount of crap doctors receive from pharma companies, do you really believe they would point people to something what wouldn't benefit them in any way? My sister is a pharma rep and I know what doctors receive from reps.

    And just to be clear, I am not someone who despises big pharma like others around here do.
    If there is an OTC supplement to get the same effect then I am all for it...I have alot of people who get negative response from AI and looking for alternatives. I not only work with Dr's but also have people I deal with out side which do not have insurance or have access to big pharma. Medical professionals I work with are open minded and are looking for better ways to implement the same effect of drugs. i have been using neurotransmitter modulation and using an integrative approach for many years helping people (along with the help of their medical Dr ) to get off antidepressants which they have been on for years. Actually before recommending any of these products to Dr's I will be the guinea pig along with blood test to prove they claim to do. As mentioned before I work with the system not against it. My goal in the next year is to find an estrogenic adaptogen which will raise e2 if low or decrease it if its low. This is just one of the projects I am working on. i am actually trying to get neuroscience to get a field study to see if there is a trend in the neurology of males taking finasteride which has been huge topic of debate on supports board.

    Did some research on product looks good, but I want to prove it with lab results. Next person with elevated e2 I will suggest 2 caps then retest in 2-3 weeks.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    In the next few weeks I will try 1 a day along with 20mg Test E2D and do blood tests.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincentv View Post
    In the next few weeks I will try 1 a day along with 20mg Test E2D and do blood tests.
    1 a day is a waste..2 seems to be the sweet spots.
    You do not have a baseline with out it so I would say this is not a accurate way to measure things.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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