Low FSH, Low-normal Test, Low libido, ED Problems - AnabolicMinds.com

Low FSH, Low-normal Test, Low libido, ED Problems

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    Low FSH, Low-normal Test, Low libido, ED Problems


    So I've gotten bloodwork done several times, and each time my FSH reading comes back below normal range. Here are some separate tests I've gotten done, and the respective value for each.

    2 Bloodworks immediately post PCT, first clom + nolva, second just nolva
    Test: 743 (249-836)
    Estradiol: 54.3 (7.6-42.6)
    LH: 6.1 (1.7-8.6)
    FSH: 1.4 (1.5-12.4)

    Test: 679
    Estradiol: 63.7
    LH: 5.1
    FSH: 1.3

    2 bloodworks taken in between cycles during off time (probably 4-8 weeks post PCT each time)
    Test: 365
    Estradiol: 37.5
    LH: 1.1
    FSH: 0.7
    Prolactin: 8.9 (4.0-15.2)

    Test: 381 (this is from the beginning of january, 4 weeks after PCT)
    Estradiol: 29
    LH: 1.1
    FSH: 0.5

    Now results from the end of january, 4 weeks after the test above
    Test: 352 (barely in their normal range starting at 348)
    Estradiol: 17.7 (fell for some reason, never have seen it this low before)
    LH: 2.7
    FSH: 0.8 (still too low)
    Vitamin D, 25 hydroxy: 24.9 (30-100)


    As you can see, even directly after 4-6 weeks of a serm, my FSH tends to be below the normal ranges, although just slightly, and when at baseline it seems to be significantly too low. I have recently been having some problems maintaining an erection and getting fully hard and weaker orgasms, and my libido has not been the same either. I was wondering if FSH plays a role in this? Also as I suspected, I am not getting enough vitamin D, so I am going to start taking 6-8000 iu a day (unless anyone has other recommendations?)

    What steps would you take from here? I have started to run 6-8 or so weeks of clomid (50 for a week or two then cruise at 25mg, does 8 weeks sound about right for a "restart?") + vitamin D, then retest, and retest again after 4 weeks off of the (while continuing the D). Since I've heard FSH is related to sperm count, I was going to order one of those cheap home tests off amazon that can tell me if I'm producing none, low amount, or normal amount and try that at the end of clomid and 4 weeks after clomid. I've heard some herbs such as L-dopa can be beneficial for sperm count?

    I'm currently 2.5 weeks into clomid 50mg and while I do wake up with morning wood (occasionally, moreso the first week than I have been recently), I still cannot get it up while I am awake (unless I take cialis) and the libido is still low. Any more advice or insight? Also, if I retest, what other things should I get checked out that are not in any of the tests above? Free test? TSH?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    So I've gotten bloodwork done several times, and each time my FSH reading comes back below normal range. Here are some separate tests I've gotten done, and the respective value for each.

    2 Bloodworks immediately post PCT, first clom + nolva, second just nolva
    Test: 743 (249-836)
    Estradiol: 54.3 (7.6-42.6)
    LH: 6.1 (1.7-8.6)
    FSH: 1.4 (1.5-12.4)

    Test: 679
    Estradiol: 63.7
    LH: 5.1
    FSH: 1.3

    2 bloodworks taken in between cycles during off time (probably 4-8 weeks post PCT each time)
    Test: 365
    Estradiol: 37.5
    LH: 1.1
    FSH: 0.7
    Prolactin: 8.9 (4.0-15.2)

    Test: 381 (this is from the beginning of january, 4 weeks after PCT)
    Estradiol: 29
    LH: 1.1
    FSH: 0.5

    Now results from the end of january, 4 weeks after the test above
    Test: 352 (barely in their normal range starting at 348)
    Estradiol: 17.7 (fell for some reason, never have seen it this low before)
    LH: 2.7
    FSH: 0.8 (still too low)
    Vitamin D, 25 hydroxy: 24.9 (30-100)


    As you can see, even directly after 4-6 weeks of a serm, my FSH tends to be below the normal ranges, although just slightly, and when at baseline it seems to be significantly too low. I have recently been having some problems maintaining an erection and getting fully hard and weaker orgasms, and my libido has not been the same either. I was wondering if FSH plays a role in this? Also as I suspected, I am not getting enough vitamin D, so I am going to start taking 6-8000 iu a day (unless anyone has other recommendations?)

    What steps would you take from here? I have started to run 6-8 or so weeks of clomid (50 for a week or two then cruise at 25mg, does 8 weeks sound about right for a "restart?") + vitamin D, then retest, and retest again after 4 weeks off of the (while continuing the D). Since I've heard FSH is related to sperm count, I was going to order one of those cheap home tests off amazon that can tell me if I'm producing none, low amount, or normal amount and try that at the end of clomid and 4 weeks after clomid. I've heard some herbs such as L-dopa can be beneficial for sperm count?

    I'm currently 2.5 weeks into clomid 50mg and while I do wake up with morning wood (occasionally, moreso the first week than I have been recently), I still cannot get it up while I am awake (unless I take cialis) and the libido is still low. Any more advice or insight? Also, if I retest, what other things should I get checked out that are not in any of the tests above? Free test? TSH?

    Thanks
    50 mgs of clomid you are asking for nasty side effect. I recommend 12.5 mgs EOD for 2-3 weeks then I have the dr check blood work.
    Usually since you are a good responder this should work well minimizing side effects. With out vitamin D optimal 60-80 ng/dl one will not be able to use clomid to its full potential
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    50 mgs of clomid you are asking for nasty side effect. I recommend 12.5 mgs EOD for 2-3 weeks then I have the dr check blood work.
    Usually since you are a good responder this should work well minimizing side effects. With out vitamin D optimal 60-80 ng/dl one will not be able to use clomid to its full potential
    Thank you for the response, I will begin dropping the dosage down. Should 8000 IU of vitamin D daily be enough to get into that range? I'm going to get levels rechecked next bloods so I can see how well it is working.

    In your opinion, are there any other levels like TSH or Free test I should get added to my next bloodwork, or does this seem sufficient?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Thank you for the response, I will begin dropping the dosage down. Should 8000 IU of vitamin D daily be enough to get into that range? I'm going to get levels rechecked next bloods so I can see how well it is working.

    In your opinion, are there any other levels like TSH or Free test I should get added to my next bloodwork, or does this seem sufficient?
    Please consult with your Dr about this first, I think your Dr will be receptive since less is more. Dr's I have consulted with has seen a huge increase in response for prolong usage with this approach in the past. IT does not cause LH down regulation, or put the person at high risk of e2 issues, or possible eye issues (yellow tint) due to higher amounts of clomid. Even though these are coming from a logical conclusion it is always best to touch base with your Dr before self adminstration. Many people are on this dosage or little or more less holding 7-1000 ng/dl TT for >6 months. Mind you they have also taking the proper steps to insuring other imbalances in body be addressed and hormonal pathways are back filled in order to increase their chances.

    If one is focusing on testosterone specific while on clomid, LH, e2, SHBG (not accurate reading due to serm) TT, DHT. One should always have done blood work first for proper thyroid, adrenals and many other factors. Please refer to my LAb testing getting to the core thread for further testing with you and your DR.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Using Clomiphene or Tamoxifen to treat male subfertility


    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Please consult with your Dr about this first, I think your Dr will be receptive since less is more. Dr's I have consulted with has seen a huge increase in response for prolong usage with this approach in the past. IT does not cause LH down regulation, or put the person at high risk of e2 issues, or possible eye issues (yellow tint) due to higher amounts of clomid. Even though these are coming from a logical conclusion it is always best to touch base with your Dr before self adminstration. Many people are on this dosage or little or more less holding 7-1000 ng/dl TT for >6 months. Mind you they have also taking the proper steps to insuring other imbalances in body be addressed and hormonal pathways are back filled in order to increase their chances.

    If one is focusing on testosterone specific while on clomid, LH, e2, SHBG (not accurate reading due to serm) TT, DHT. One should always have done blood work first for proper thyroid, adrenals and many other factors. Please refer to my LAb testing getting to the core thread for further testing with you and your DR.

    I originally wrote a response with a lot of links for you, but it would not let me post it since I have under 50 posts, so this is a much smaller revision of it.

    There are numerous studies on using anti-oestrogens on treating male subfertility. Most studies show that using Clomiphene or Tamoxifen by itself have little to no effect.

    Clomiphene or tamoxifen for idiopathic oligo/asthenospermia.

    Abstract

    BACKGROUND:

    Oligo-astheno-teratospermia (sperm of low concentration, reduced motility and increased abnormal morphology) of unknown cause is common and the need for treatment is felt by patients and doctors alike. As a result, a variety of empirical, non-specific treatments have been used in an attempt to improve semen characteristics and fertility. The administration of anti-oestrogens is a common treatment because anti oestrogens interfere with the normal negative feedback of sex steroids at hypothalamic and pituitary levels in order to increase endogenous gonadotropin-releasing hormone secretion from the hypothalamus and FSH and LH secretion directly from the pituitary. In turn, FSH and LH stimulate Leydig cells in the testes, and this has been claimed to lead to increased local testosterone production, thereby boosting spermatogenesis with a possible improvement in fertility. There may also be a direct effect of anti-oestrogens on testicular spermatogenesis or steroidogenesis. This review considers the available evidence of the effect of both Clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen, both of which have a predominant anti-oestrogenic effect, for idiopathic oligo and/or asthenospermia.
    OBJECTIVES:

    The objective was to assess the effects of treating subfertile men with anti-oestrogens (clomiphene or tamoxifen) on pregnancy rates among couples where subfertility has been attributed to idiopathic oligo- and/or asthenospermia.
    SEARCH STRATEGY:

    The Cochrane Subfertility Review Group specialised register of controlled trials was searched".
    SELECTION CRITERIA:

    Randomised trials of anti-oestrogen therapy for 3 months or more compared to placebo or no placebo for subfertile males among couples where subfertility is attributed to male factor.
    DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS:

    Data were extracted independently by two reviewers. Any differences were resolved with a third reviewer.
    MAIN RESULTS:

    Ten studies involving 738 men were included. Five of the trials did not specify method of randomisation. Anti-oestrogens had a positive effect on endocrinal outcomes, such as serum testosterone levels. In trials with secure randomisation there was no difference in the pregnancy rate between the anti-oestrogen groups and the control groups (odds ratio 1.26, 95% confidence interval 0.99 to 1.56). The overall pregnancy rate for these five trials was 15.4% compared to the spontaneous rate of 12.5% in the control groups. These odds increased to 1.56 (95% confidence interval 0.99 to 2.19) when all 10 trials were included, but this result is likely to be artificially inflated.
    REVIEWER'S CONCLUSIONS:

    Anti-oestrogens appear to have a beneficial effect on endocrinal outcomes, but there is not enough evidence to evaluate the use of anti-oestrogens for increasing the fertility of males with idiopathic oligo-asthenospermia.





    Tamoxifen treatment of oligozoospermia: a re-evaluation of its effects including additional sperm function tests.


    Abstract

    Because of previous contradictory results, we reevaluated the effects of tamoxifen on 29 men presenting with idiopathic oligozoospermia. To determine whether a possible increase in sperm concentration might be correlated with an improvement of sperm quality, the hamster ovum penetration (HOP) test and the hypo-osmotic swelling (HOS) test were included as additional tests of sperm function. Patients were treated with tamoxifen (20 mg/day) for 3 months. From 4 weeks until the end of the study, tamoxifen had a significant effect (P < 0.001) on blood levels of luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone (T), and estradiol (E2). Prolactin (PRL) concentrations were not altered significantly (P > 0.05). There was no significant improvement (P > 0.05) of conventional semen parameters (volume, concentration, motility, morphology), and of HOP and HOS test results. The lack of correlation between a rise in hormone levels and improvement of sperm quality suggests that tamoxifen is of questionable value in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia.






    Human Chorionic and Menopausal Gonadotropin (hCG/hMG) treatment has had the best success at bringing back spermatogenesis
    Although, your condition is not at the level of being azoospermic, I believe that hMG, or a combination of hCG and hMG, make for the best PCT after any androgen cycle.

    Successful treatment of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia with human chorionic gonadotropin and human menopausal gonadotropin.

    Abstract

    OBJECTIVE:

    To document for the first time the successful treatment using human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and human menopausal gonadotropins (hMG) of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia that was persistent despite 1 year of cessation from steroid use.
    DESIGN:

    Clinical case report.
    SETTINGS:

    Tertiary referral center for infertility.
    PATIENT(S):

    A married couple with primary subfertility secondary to azoospermia and male hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. The husband was a bodybuilder who admitted to have used the anabolic steroids testosterone cypionate, methandrostenolone, oxandrolone, testosterone propionate, oxymetholone, nandrolone decanoate, and methenolone enanthate.
    INTERVENTION(S):

    Twice-weekly injections of 10,000 IU of hCG (Profasi; Serono) and daily injections of 75 IU of hMG (Humegon; Organon) for 3 months.
    MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S):

    Semen analyses, pregnancy.
    RESULT(S):

    Semen analyses returned to normal after 3 months of treatment. The couple conceived spontaneously 7 months later.
    CONCLUSION(S):

    Steroid-induced azoospermia that is persistent after cessation of steroid use can be treated successfully with hCG and hMG.





    hCG may be enough to bring back spermatogenesis. hCG mimics LH almost identically, and how it stimulates FSH production is beyond me, but they have had a lot success with it.

    Anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism treated with human chorionic gonadotropin.

    Abstract

    A case is presented of a young competitive body-builder who abused anabolic steroid drugs and developed profound symptomatic hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. With the help of prescribed testosterone (Sustanon) he stopped taking anabolic drugs, and later stopped Sustanon also. Hypogonadism returned, but was successfully treated with weekly injections of human chorionic gonadotropin for three months. Testicular function remained normal thereafter on no treatment. The use of human chorionic gonadotropin should be considered in prolonged hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism due to anabolic steroid abuse.


    Maintenance of spermatogenesis in hypogonadotropic hypogonadal men with human chorionic gonadotropin alone.

    Abstract

    OBJECTIVE:

    It is generally accepted that both gonadotropins LH and FSH are necessary for initiation and maintenance of spermatogenesis. We investigated the relative importance of FSH for the maintenance of spermatogenesis in hypogonadotropic men.
    SUBJECTS AND METHODS:

    13 patients with gonadotropin deficiency due to idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH), Kallmann syndrome or pituitary insufficiency were analyzed retrospectively. They had been treated with gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) (n=1) or human chorionic gonadotropin/human menopausal gonadotropin (hCG/hMG) (n=12) for induction of spermatogenesis. After successful induction of spermatogenesis they were treated with hCG alone for maintenance of secondary sex characteristics and in order to check whether sperm production could be maintained by hCG alone. Serum LH, FSH and testosterone levels, semen parameters and testicular Volume were determined every three to six Months.
    RESULTS:

    After spermatogenesis had been successfully induced by treatment with GnRH or hCG/hMG, hCG treatment alone continued for 3-24 Months. After 12 Months under hCG alone, sperm counts decreased gradually but remained present in all patients except one who became azoospermic. Testicular Volume decreased only slightly and reached 87% of the Volume achieved with hCG/hMG. During treatment with hCG alone, FSH and LH levels were suppressed to below the detection limit of the assay.
    CONCLUSION:

    Once spermatogenesis is induced in patients with secondary hypogonadism by GnRH or hCG/hMG treatment, it can be maintained in most of the patients qualitatively by hCG alone, in the absence of FSH, for extended periods. However, the decreasing sperm counts indicate that FSH is essential for maintenance of quantitatively normal spermatogenesis.



    I hope this helps.
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    So I am almost done with my 6 weeks of clomid, I started at 50 but tapered down pretty quickly when I realized that was too much. Near the middle-end of the treatment things were going well and I was getting erections without cialis, and I had signs of high testosterone (good gains, good mood, etc). How near the end of my run, I feel like my levels may be falling a bit more as it seems like the boys are getting smaller and I'm not waking up with morning wood every morning anymore. I was originally going to wait until 4 weeks after I finish to get bloods. But would it be worth it to get bloods done now additionally to see what kind of results the clomid produced?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    So I am almost done with my 6 weeks of clomid, I started at 50 but tapered down pretty quickly when I realized that was too much. Near the middle-end of the treatment things were going well and I was getting erections without cialis, and I had signs of high testosterone (good gains, good mood, etc). How near the end of my run, I feel like my levels may be falling a bit more as it seems like the boys are getting smaller and I'm not waking up with morning wood every morning anymore. I was originally going to wait until 4 weeks after I finish to get bloods. But would it be worth it to get bloods done now additionally to see what kind of results the clomid produced?
    What did i tell.happens there.is.a.quick.down regulation if.level are.too.high.of cloned even 25 mgs eod may.be too.much for.some.people
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I decided to get bloods yesterday. Here are the results from before and after clomid

    Results from before clomid:
    Test: 352 (barely in their normal range starting at 348)
    Estradiol: 17.7 (fell for some reason, never have seen it this low before)
    LH: 2.7
    FSH: 0.8 (still too low)
    Vitamin D, 25 hydroxy: 24.9 (30-100)

    Results immediately after clomid
    Test: 640
    Estradiol: 44.3
    LH: 8.1
    FSH: 1.3
    Vit D: 49.7

    So it seems as if it has done about what it's supposed to, and my level of vitamin D went up in response to supplementation. However my FSH is still at 1.3, and that is tied for the highest reading that I have ever seen there. Why is my FSH always so low? Is FSH directly correlated with sperm count? Does it just take a while for sperm production to get going?

    Anyways, how should I proceed. Come off the clomid and see where I'm at in a month? Continue, but with 12.5mg EOD dose and see if the FSH will raise over time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    I decided to get bloods yesterday. Here are the results from before and after clomid

    Results from before clomid:
    Test: 352 (barely in their normal range starting at 348)
    Estradiol: 17.7 (fell for some reason, never have seen it this low before)
    LH: 2.7
    FSH: 0.8 (still too low)
    Vitamin D, 25 hydroxy: 24.9 (30-100)

    Results immediately after clomid
    Test: 640
    Estradiol: 44.3
    LH: 8.1
    FSH: 1.3
    Vit D: 49.7

    So it seems as if it has done about what it's supposed to, and my level of vitamin D went up in response to supplementation. However my FSH is still at 1.3, and that is tied for the highest reading that I have ever seen there. Why is my FSH always so low? Is FSH directly correlated with sperm count? Does it just take a while for sperm production to get going?

    Anyways, how should I proceed. Come off the clomid and see where I'm at in a month? Continue, but with 12.5mg EOD dose and see if the FSH will raise over time?
    You got a good response from clomid the question is how long can you sustain it before your body crashes? In working with Dr's lower longer the better less side effects. If you are looking to get wife pregno then HMG may be the way to go and have Clomid keep T levels up if possible. These are issues you need to discuss with Dr ..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    You got a good response from clomid the question is how long can you sustain it before your body crashes? In working with Dr's lower longer the better less side effects. If you are looking to get wife pregno then HMG may be the way to go and have Clomid keep T levels up if possible. These are issues you need to discuss with Dr ..
    Im a young guy, no wife yet, that's why this is all the more concerning to me. I think I'll do the 12.5 EOD for another week then see where I'm at after some time off. Also is FSH correlated with ball size? Is that why my numbers look OK for the most part but my balls still don't feel like they are at 100%?
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    So everything I'm reading... it seems that my not 100% balls, low FSH, etc. may be related to having possibly shut down my sperm production from past use of roids. Another reason I believe this may be the case is because I have had hormone levels similar to this before yet not had problems with ED, and I also read that blank loads smell less, which I did notice last time I smelled my seed. I'm not jumping to conclusions, but this seems very plausible so I may go get a semen analysis at some point soon. A couple questions I have:

    1. Can not having sperm to shoot be a cause of ED? Or should I stand to attention anyways if hormones and other factors are normal and just shoot blanks?
    2. How long does it take for sperm production to kick in again if everything is in place?

    I read about using Maca to increase sperm count, but in a study I read the Maca did not help males with an already low serum FSH level, which I definitely have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    So everything I'm reading... it seems that my not 100% balls, low FSH, etc. may be related to having possibly shut down my sperm production from past use of roids. Another reason I believe this may be the case is because I have had hormone levels similar to this before yet not had problems with ED, and I also read that blank loads smell less, which I did notice last time I smelled my seed. I'm not jumping to conclusions, but this seems very plausible so I may go get a semen analysis at some point soon. A couple questions I have:

    1. Can not having sperm to shoot be a cause of ED? Or should I stand to attention anyways if hormones and other factors are normal and just shoot blanks?
    2. How long does it take for sperm production to kick in again if everything is in place?

    I read about using Maca to increase sperm count, but in a study I read the Maca did not help males with an already low serum FSH level, which I definitely have.
    There are multiple things can cause low sperm count which are non hormone related
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    There are multiple things can cause low sperm count which are non hormone related
    I'm aware of that, and I am not ruling anything out or jumping to conclusions. However, I believe this problem was caused after my usage of steroids, so it seems common sense to think that their effect on my HPTA is most likely the root of the problem here. I am asking more questions to gain insight as to how things work in that ballpark, without ruling out other possibilities. I just want to delve further into this aspect.

    Some of the things I'm wondering:

    Can having a very low sperm count give you ED?
    Can having a very low sperm count lower your libido?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    I'm aware of that, and I am not ruling anything out or jumping to conclusions. However, I believe this problem was caused after my usage of steroids, so it seems common sense to think that their effect on my HPTA is most likely the root of the problem here. I am asking more questions to gain insight as to how things work in that ballpark, without ruling out other possibilities. I just want to delve further into this aspect.

    Some of the things I'm wondering:

    Can having a very low sperm count give you ED?
    Can having a very low sperm count lower your libido?
    Nope
    Nope, but may give watery semen
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Nope
    Nope, but may give watery semen
    Thanks for the answers.

    I have one additional question about my vitamin D supplementation. I have been taking 10,000 IU for about 5 weeks and my levels went from 25 to 50. Should I continue to up the dosage to 12,000 IU or more, or does it take longer than a month to reach full saturation? I read that 10-12k IU was the upper limit on how much you could take, but my bloodwork shows that amount only got me halfway in range at that amount in a month.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Thanks for the answers.

    I have one additional question about my vitamin D supplementation. I have been taking 10,000 IU for about 5 weeks and my levels went from 25 to 50. Should I continue to up the dosage to 12,000 IU or more, or does it take longer than a month to reach full saturation? I read that 10-12k IU was the upper limit on how much you could take, but my bloodwork shows that amount only got me halfway in range at that amount in a month.
    Tells me you got issues with bile acid and fat emuslification preventing the absorption. Again its going back to the GI tract. Gi integrity needs further evaluation.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    So a bit of an anecdotal update from me today.

    It's been a week since the last bloods I got, which a few posts up showed me to have decent hormonal numbers, although still low FSH, after a 6 week run of clomid. I took my last dose of 12.5mg last night and I will see how I respond coming off of it. I have been getting decent morning wood occasionally, but when I tried to masturbate 30 minutes later I couldn't get it up and wasn't really interested in what I was watching. So basically it seems that although my test levels are fine at the moment, I still seem to have no libido and ED problems (besides sometimes getting morning wood).

    I don't get to see how my guy responds to real intimate situations often because my girl is long distance. But last time I just used cialis and everything went great (near the beginning of clomid). I suspect when I see her again in 1.5 weeks I may need to use cialis again to get it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    So a bit of an anecdotal update from me today.

    It's been a week since the last bloods I got, which a few posts up showed me to have decent hormonal numbers, although still low FSH, after a 6 week run of clomid. I took my last dose of 12.5mg last night and I will see how I respond coming off of it. I have been getting decent morning wood occasionally, but when I tried to masturbate 30 minutes later I couldn't get it up and wasn't really interested in what I was watching. So basically it seems that although my test levels are fine at the moment, I still seem to have no libido and ED problems (besides sometimes getting morning wood).

    I don't get to see how my guy responds to real intimate situations often because my girl is long distance. But last time I just used cialis and everything went great (near the beginning of clomid). I suspect when I see her again in 1.5 weeks I may need to use cialis again to get it up.
    I got married last year to a gorgeous lady, a dead ringer for Halle Berry. She's 11 years younger and obviously does not have good eyesight, because she still wanted me. Prior to that, I had ED issues as well. I was seeing a few girls, all in their 30s, so their libidos were high. I was seeing them on different days, but one everyday. In order to keep up, I used Viagra everyday. Originally deca shut me down hard, but I eventually recovered. I can remember laying in a motel room with a very hot girl, and we both just stared at the limp member below. It was embarrassing. Viagra seemed to help, and at some point it became a psychological dependent drug. If I didn't have a blue pill and found myself in a demanding situation, I'd fall apart. So it was a struggle during those times. I have three bottles of Viagra and haven't touched them since I was married. I found that if just wait maybe three days between each encounter, I'm fine. I am no longer psychologically dependent on Viagra.

    I no longer worry about ED issues. I just know my limitations, which are strained if I attempt every day.
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    One more thing I should mention that I haven't yet.

    At times, when I am masturbating and I orgasm but I'm not fully hard, sometimes it can actually induce some pain in my taint. I also pee very frequently, many times a day. Is it possible that this is something related to my prostate?

    I took some cialis today because its been a while since i cleaned the tubes (probably a week or two). I took 10mg and a few hours later I attempted to masturbate again (which failed this morning). I was able to get a decent erection, and shot a pretty good size load, although the orgasm was pretty weak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    One more thing I should mention that I haven't yet.

    At times, when I am masturbating and I orgasm but I'm not fully hard, sometimes it can actually induce some pain in my taint. I also pee very frequently, many times a day. Is it possible that this is something related to my prostate?

    I took some cialis today because its been a while since i cleaned the tubes (probably a week or two). I took 10mg and a few hours later I attempted to masturbate again (which failed this morning). I was able to get a decent erection, and shot a pretty good size load, although the orgasm was pretty weak.
    It can absolutely have something to do with your prostrate. All the recent studies put little faith in PSA values and recommend doctors drop the PSA tests. I ignore them now... Your estrogen is high, but not unusually high. My guess is your DHT is high and you have sensitivity to DHT. I would insist on a scan of your prostrate and nothing else. A digital exam is crude and subjective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    It can absolutely have something to do with your prostrate. All the recent studies put little faith in PSA values and recommend doctors drop the PSA tests. I ignore them now... Your estrogen is high, but not unusually high. My guess is your DHT is high and you have sensitivity to DHT. I would insist on a scan of your prostrate and nothing else. A digital exam is crude and subjective.
    Thanks for the advice. My current labs don't even show PSA, but when I visit my doctor in 2 weeks I will be sure to mention the prostate thing. If I had high DHT, wouldn't I have a pretty high libido though?

    Slight update: I had a sex dream last night and woke up with a very good erection this morning, a hint of libido when I woke up too. The last cialis I took was 10mg on Sunday afternoon, so I feel like this one may have been all me. When I tried to masturbate a few hours later though (to some of my favorite material), absolutely no luck. Didn't even get to a semi. This is so confusing and frustrating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Thanks for the advice. My current labs don't even show PSA, but when I visit my doctor in 2 weeks I will be sure to mention the prostate thing. If I had high DHT, wouldn't I have a pretty high libido though?

    Slight update: I had a sex dream last night and woke up with a very good erection this morning, a hint of libido when I woke up too. The last cialis I took was 10mg on Sunday afternoon, so I feel like this one may have been all me. When I tried to masturbate a few hours later though (to some of my favorite material), absolutely no luck. Didn't even get to a semi. This is so confusing and frustrating.
    As long as you are not having wet dreams you are good
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    As long as you are not having wet dreams you are good
    What do you mean by this?

    Last night I woke up near the beginning of the sex dream, but I feel like it may have come to a wet dream if I had slept longer. I got a few wet dreams at the beginning of my clomid run and I used to get them occasionally before I had these problems in this thread if I went too long without coming.

    Is having wet dreams actually indicative of anything? Or was that just a playful comment? Because I'm definitely not all good haha.
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    ^ bump
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    ^ bump
    Unless you are <21 you should not be having wet dreams..Just not common
    Wet dreams may happen when you need to discharge to keep the prostate clean.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I am 23. I don't get them regularly, I just remember getting 1-2 when I started clomid, and in the past before I had these problems occasionally if I went a while without having an orgasm.

    Update: Anyways, earlier this week I was able to successfully masturbate without cialis. I also had to stay up pretty late a few nights and noticed some random erections at night. I had trouble getting hard when I tried to masturbate during the day however, i don't know if this means anything.

    Last night I returned home and got to see my GF, at first I wasn't really getting hard to the point where I had to say "this might not work" but eventually it got hard enough to put it in... it wasn't a very quality erection though (no cialis used). My appointment with my doctor for a physical and to talk about these issues (and hopefully get my prostate checked out) is on Tuesday.
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    UPDATE

    Went to finally talk to my primary care doctor about these issues today, and get a physical. The physical went well, blood pressure was good at 114/64 so that rules out that as being the culprit of the ED.

    I told her about my concerns about my prostate health as well, and she gave me a rectal exam and said that my prostate felt normal to her. She also said she would add PSA to my bloodwork (which I'm going back to get done later this week), but she knew that it was a somewhat unreliable measure and was aware of the controversy/debate surrounding using that measure.

    She also referred me to a urologist (Which i will likely not be able to see until early June). She said she expected my bloodwork would come back normal but she said it was good to use it to rule causes out. I did not share with her that I had gotten "under the table" bloodwork done (as chronicled throughout this thread). This is what is listed for on the lab work order:

    CBC with automated differential
    Comprehensive metabolic panel with GFR
    Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)
    Testosterone, Male >19, Total
    Urinalysis & cult if indicated
    HIV 1 and 2 Screening
    Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA)

    So i will be getting those things tested this week. I have never gotten TSH and PSA tested before, is there anything I need to do/avoid doing in order to ensure as accurate measures as possible? For some reason, it seems like she is not testing Estradiol, FSH, or LH levels, so she will not see what I would expect to be low FSH and LH levels (look back at my bloodwork). She most likely will see that my testosterone falls in the low-normal to low range (assuming it has fallen off a bit since discontinuing clomid). I'm not overly concerned about the lack of FSH and LH as I feel like a urologist would run more comprehensive tests once I go see him. It's just unfortunate I won't be able to do so until June.

    So any new input given this new information?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    UPDATE

    Went to finally talk to my primary care doctor about these issues today, and get a physical. The physical went well, blood pressure was good at 114/64 so that rules out that as being the culprit of the ED.

    I told her about my concerns about my prostate health as well, and she gave me a rectal exam and said that my prostate felt normal to her. She also said she would add PSA to my bloodwork (which I'm going back to get done later this week), but she knew that it was a somewhat unreliable measure and was aware of the controversy/debate surrounding using that measure.

    She also referred me to a urologist (Which i will likely not be able to see until early June). She said she expected my bloodwork would come back normal but she said it was good to use it to rule causes out. I did not share with her that I had gotten "under the table" bloodwork done (as chronicled throughout this thread). This is what is listed for on the lab work order:

    CBC with automated differential
    Comprehensive metabolic panel with GFR
    Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)
    Testosterone, Male >19, Total
    Urinalysis & cult if indicated
    HIV 1 and 2 Screening
    Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA)

    So i will be getting those things tested this week. I have never gotten TSH and PSA tested before, is there anything I need to do/avoid doing in order to ensure as accurate measures as possible? For some reason, it seems like she is not testing Estradiol, FSH, or LH levels, so she will not see what I would expect to be low FSH and LH levels (look back at my bloodwork). She most likely will see that my testosterone falls in the low-normal to low range (assuming it has fallen off a bit since discontinuing clomid). I'm not overly concerned about the lack of FSH and LH as I feel like a urologist would run more comprehensive tests once I go see him. It's just unfortunate I won't be able to do so until June.

    So any new input given this new information?
    Where are you located at so we can get you some good help I have a whole list of Dr's I can refer you too which will be glad to help.
    This test are very vague and will not show anything signifcant.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Where are you located at so we can get you some good help I have a whole list of Dr's I can refer you too which will be glad to help.
    This test are very vague and will not show anything signifcant.
    Your private message box is full.
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    Update: I got the test results back from the doctor. I viewed them online so I have only seen the values, not talked to my doctor about them yet. My total test came in at 182 which seems very strange. I did get the test done at 3pm if this could be affecting it. But this would indicate that my test fell from 640 to 182 after 3 weeks of discontinuing the clomid, which I find strange because the last time I discontinued torem my test only fell from what I felt was likely pretty high (no bloodwork but it felt like I know 700ish test to feel like now) to 380 in 1 month and then only to 350 3 weeks after that. So either something is incorrect, or the run of clomid made me worse off in the end? I am thinking about going to do a labcorp retest on tuesday morning to see if I am actually this low.

    In the meantime, I am scheduling an appointment with a urologist my doctor referred me to for early in june.

    Some values (no fsh, lh, or e2 taken unfortunately)
    Test: 182 (160-728)
    TSH: 0.59 (.34-4.82)
    PSA: 0.51 (0.0-4.0)

    Where to go from here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Update: I got the test results back from the doctor. I viewed them online so I have only seen the values, not talked to my doctor about them yet. My total test came in at 182 which seems very strange. I did get the test done at 3pm if this could be affecting it. But this would indicate that my test fell from 640 to 182 after 3 weeks of discontinuing the clomid, which I find strange because the last time I discontinued torem my test only fell from what I felt was likely pretty high (no bloodwork but it felt like I know 700ish test to feel like now) to 380 in 1 month and then only to 350 3 weeks after that. So either something is incorrect, or the run of clomid made me worse off in the end? I am thinking about going to do a labcorp retest on tuesday morning to see if I am actually this low.

    In the meantime, I am scheduling an appointment with a urologist my doctor referred me to for early in june.

    Some values (no fsh, lh, or e2 taken unfortunately)
    Test: 182 (160-728)
    TSH: 0.59 (.34-4.82)
    PSA: 0.51 (0.0-4.0)

    Where to go from here?
    I had many cases similar to yours from Dr's who have failed the clomid challenge. Once we went back and revisit other issues and imbalances which were never addressed in the first place. 4 months later they were able to hold no problem. Some people need clomid to keep the signal going. As I tell people if you are going to build a mansion you need a strong foundation other wise it will crumble. This is why people on clomid fail, lack of the strong foundation ..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I had many cases similar to yours from Dr's who have failed the clomid challenge. Once we went back and revisit other issues and imbalances which were never addressed in the first place. 4 months later they were able to hold no problem. Some people need clomid to keep the signal going. As I tell people if you are going to build a mansion you need a strong foundation other wise it will crumble. This is why people on clomid fail, lack of the strong foundation ..
    Why would my numbers be even worse than before the clomid though? I mean 380 isn't that terrible of a test number, but 180 is pretty awful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Why would my numbers be even worse than before the clomid though? I mean 380 isn't that terrible of a test number, but 180 is pretty awful.
    Because you need to keep the signal going...Again you probably are missing some part of the foundation to keep it from crumbling which it did do..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Because you need to keep the signal going...Again you probably are missing some part of the foundation to keep it from crumbling which it did do..
    Yeah but I was "signaling" for 350-380 test before the clomid. That's why it surprises me that when the signaling stopped it dropped to 180 instead of just reverting back to 350 or so where it was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Yeah but I was "signaling" for 350-380 test before the clomid. That's why it surprises me that when the signaling stopped it dropped to 180 instead of just reverting back to 350 or so where it was.
    I have many talents and mind reading is not one of them. There are could be million reason why it happen, which all trigger the same the response - STRESS. A good health professional usually spends an hour with you going over this information looking for reason. There is no way to do it in the few sentence through a forum. One would be surprised when people put up labs and hope to find the right answer unfortunately with out the proper back ground, detailed information it will make it impossible as well as potentially dangerous. When proper information is known it can change the whole out come of how proper protocols are suggested and carried out. I fell victim to this several times and ended up almost killing me this is why I am highly cautious about not making direct suggestions to do with out some conclusive data. What I am doing is protecting people from going down the wrong pathways as I have which a few times ended me up in ER or on the brink of total self destruction from following what some idiot on line was telling me not knowing my full case history. So If I give vague answers and more informational based NOW you know why...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I had many cases similar to yours from Dr's who have failed the clomid challenge. Once we went back and revisit other issues and imbalances which were never addressed in the first place. 4 months later they were able to hold no problem. Some people need clomid to keep the signal going. As I tell people if you are going to build a mansion you need a strong foundation other wise it will crumble. This is why people on clomid fail, lack of the strong foundation ..

    Ok, I've read this entire thread, as well as other articles and forum threads online. I am in the same situations level wise, and on clomid (various doses over a year's period). I would truly like to know what your response means. Can you be specific in the strong foundation you are referring to? And what constitutes failing the clomid challenge? Also, any particular issues and imbalances I should get looked at. I do feel I've tried everything, which is why I am asking. And I apologize if I seem to be missing something. It's just that your post has references to things I have not run across in my other research, nor in my talks with my doctors (yes plural...it's been five now, I think).

    Thank you. I'm trying to figure out anything I can to get myself back to "normal".
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJohn View Post
    Ok, I've read this entire thread, as well as other articles and forum threads online. I am in the same situations level wise, and on clomid (various doses over a year's period). I would truly like to know what your response means. Can you be specific in the strong foundation you are referring to? And what constitutes failing the clomid challenge? Also, any particular issues and imbalances I should get looked at. I do feel I've tried everything, which is why I am asking. And I apologize if I seem to be missing something. It's just that your post has references to things I have not run across in my other research, nor in my talks with my doctors (yes plural...it's been five now, I think).

    Thank you. I'm trying to figure out anything I can to get myself back to "normal".
    You need to look at the whole biology and neurology,and hidden stressors of the person. As many are finding out you eat a great diet, but when properly testing you are lacking majority of the building blocks to make hormones in the first or do not have proper cell signaling capabilities. Again this very common in people "I eat a great diet how can I be low in anything" It goes back to a simple statement. "we are not what we eat, but what we metabolize, assimilate and eliminate. Why I do is find these missing parts of the puzzle and imbalances by working along with medical professionals which give me the ability to further investigation. Clomid challenge is to see if you can at least get an increase in double or more from baseline. 5 doctors is nothing average cases I work on from Dr's are >20 medical professionals over a course of >5 years. Reason you have not come across it because I am probably one who have came up with these protocols and have case studies from Dr's to validate them. This is why the future of medicine is integrative medicine. Many Dr's are just skimming the top, I work with the system not against it. If you PM me your location I may provide you medical professionals in your area I may know who may be able to help ..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I have many talents and mind reading is not one of them. There are could be million reason why it happen, which all trigger the same the response - STRESS. A good health professional usually spends an hour with you going over this information looking for reason. There is no way to do it in the few sentence through a forum. One would be surprised when people put up labs and hope to find the right answer unfortunately with out the proper back ground, detailed information it will make it impossible as well as potentially dangerous. When proper information is known it can change the whole out come of how proper protocols are suggested and carried out. I fell victim to this several times and ended up almost killing me this is why I am highly cautious about not making direct suggestions to do with out some conclusive data. What I am doing is protecting people from going down the wrong pathways as I have which a few times ended me up in ER or on the brink of total self destruction from following what some idiot on line was telling me not knowing my full case history. So If I give vague answers and more informational based NOW you know why...
    Yeah, i suppose that was really more of a rhetorical question, just me thinking out loud. Well I got a message from my doctor saying my labs are all "essentially normal" and I should go see the urologist like we had planned on. I kind of expected that and I didn't expect any real help until that visit again.

    I'll update again after i get more bloodwork this week or next at private md labs. Then I will have to decide what to do until June when I can see a urologist (take nothing, take clomid at 12.5 eod, etc)
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    Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Yeah, i suppose that was really more of a rhetorical question, just me thinking out loud. Well I got a message from my doctor saying my labs are all "essentially normal" and I should go see the urologist like we had planned on. I kind of expected that and I didn't expect any real help until that visit again.

    I'll update again after i get more bloodwork this week or next at private md labs. Then I will have to decide what to do until June when I can see a urologist (take nothing, take clomid at 12.5 eod, etc)
    Normal does not = Healthy in majority of cases.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    It seems until I have posted five more times after this time, I can't send PMs. Hmmm.
  

  
 

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