Hashimoto's - Help Me Understand It - AnabolicMinds.com

Hashimoto's - Help Me Understand It

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    Hashimoto's - Help Me Understand It


    Is there anyone on the forum who has Hashimoto's?

    My most recent blood tests show that I likely have this (TPO-Ab: 166; ref range < 35). I was first diagnosed with hypothyroidism a full year ago, but this was the first time my antibodies were ever checked (despite my previous requests, but that's beside the point).

    Anyway, I have read and read and read about Hashimoto's, but I admittedly don't fully understand the treatment. The treatment is thyroid hormone (Synthroid, Cytomel, Armour, etc.) just as it is for standard hypothyroidism. What I don't get, though, is that if the anti-thyroid antibodies are attacking the thyroid and causing these problems, then how does pumping in more exogenous thyroid hormone help? I would think that there would be some type of treatment involving correcting the anti-thyroid antibody issue or finding a root cause of this.

    Can anyone explain this to me a little bit better? Do any of you have Hashimoto's?

    I was initially on 50mcg T4 for the first ~3 months, which did nothing. Then I was on a dose of 112mcg T4 for another ~2 months and it did nothing. At that point, I found out I had high rT3 and I dosed 100mcg T3 for 10 weeks and saw no change from that, either. Throughout all of those treatments, my TSH went further and further down (all the way to 0.44) and the T3 crushed my rT3 to low OOR from high OOR, but despite intense workouts and proper diet, there was no weight loss at all (which is hard for me to believe with that dose of T3).

    Most importantly, though, if all of that didn't do anything, how is this similar treatment going to be any different?

    My doctor (who is a very good doctor and I very much appreciate working with him) wants me to go back on a T4 dose, too, with this new discovery. I've been on just 25mcg of T3/day since October or so. When I was using T4, my urine was constantly dark yellow, despite drinking 2 gallons of water/day (which doesn't seem healthy, to me). I have never used both in conjunction. The second I found out about high rT3, I cut out T4 completely and went on the mega-dose of T3.

    Is adding T4 back in a good idea based on all of this?

    I haven't had a chance to talk to my doctor, yet, either. The blood work was done over 2 weeks ago and I just found out the results from an office assistant on Friday over the phone, as I'm out of state. She was the one who said his notes said to add the T4 back in and that he send a prescription in for me (I assume 50mcg).

    Any thoughts on any of this?

    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    Is there anyone on the forum who has Hashimoto's?

    My most recent blood tests show that I likely have this (TPO-Ab: 166; ref range < 35). I was first diagnosed with hypothyroidism a full year ago, but this was the first time my antibodies were ever checked (despite my previous requests, but that's beside the point).

    Anyway, I have read and read and read about Hashimoto's, but I admittedly don't fully understand the treatment. The treatment is thyroid hormone (Synthroid, Cytomel, Armour, etc.) just as it is for standard hypothyroidism. What I don't get, though, is that if the anti-thyroid antibodies are attacking the thyroid and causing these problems, then how does pumping in more exogenous thyroid hormone help? I would think that there would be some type of treatment involving correcting the anti-thyroid antibody issue or finding a root cause of this.

    Can anyone explain this to me a little bit better? Do any of you have Hashimoto's?

    I was initially on 50mcg T4 for the first ~3 months, which did nothing. Then I was on a dose of 112mcg T4 for another ~2 months and it did nothing. At that point, I found out I had high rT3 and I dosed 100mcg T3 for 10 weeks and saw no change from that, either. Throughout all of those treatments, my TSH went further and further down (all the way to 0.44) and the T3 crushed my rT3 to low OOR from high OOR, but despite intense workouts and proper diet, there was no weight loss at all (which is hard for me to believe with that dose of T3).

    Most importantly, though, if all of that didn't do anything, how is this similar treatment going to be any different?

    My doctor (who is a very good doctor and I very much appreciate working with him) wants me to go back on a T4 dose, too, with this new discovery. I've been on just 25mcg of T3/day since October or so. When I was using T4, my urine was constantly dark yellow, despite drinking 2 gallons of water/day (which doesn't seem healthy, to me). I have never used both in conjunction. The second I found out about high rT3, I cut out T4 completely and went on the mega-dose of T3.

    Is adding T4 back in a good idea based on all of this?

    I haven't had a chance to talk to my doctor, yet, either. The blood work was done over 2 weeks ago and I just found out the results from an office assistant on Friday over the phone, as I'm out of state. She was the one who said his notes said to add the T4 back in and that he send a prescription in for me (I assume 50mcg).

    Any thoughts on any of this?

    Thanks.
    Body identifies it own thyroid gland as foriegn invader and the immune system begins to attack to it. Over time it will burn itself out unless it is shut down. Hashimotos in a lot of cases comes from an immune response in the GI tract which can affect other endocrine system mainly the thyroid. Lowering antibodies can be done severe ways. Understanding crucial information is neccessary to getting the proper therapeutic out come. With many Dr's patients, I suggest they hold off on thyroid meds till other issues are ruled out (takes about 3-4 weeks with proper testing and may be 6 -8 weeks of other modifcations). If further investigation is inconclusive then commence thyroid meds. IMO a lot of Drs are apt to play fill the gas tank with hormones which can only lead to other issues since they are just a symptom of the cause which needs further evaluation. This all does take WORK which medical professionals do not like to do that often.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Body identifies it own thyroid gland as foriegn invader and the immune system begins to attack to it. Over time it will burn itself out unless it is shut down. Hashimotos in a lot of cases comes from an immune response in the GI tract which can affect other endocrine system mainly the thyroid. Lowering antibodies can be done severe ways. Understanding crucial information is neccessary to getting the proper therapeutic out come. With many Dr's patients, I suggest they hold off on thyroid meds till other issues are ruled out (takes about 3-4 weeks with proper testing and may be 6 -8 weeks of other modifcations). If further investigation is inconclusive then commence thyroid meds. IMO a lot of Drs are apt to play fill the gas tank with hormones which can only lead to other issues since they are just a symptom of the cause which needs further evaluation. This all does take WORK which medical professionals do not like to do that often.
    Thanks for the information, Shawn. That certainly makes a lot more sense than anything written on Hashimoto's that's out there on the web. I just couldn't understand how adding in more hormones could make it better when the body is attacking itself.

    What tests would be worthwhile in pursuing to look for a root cause in the autoimmune disorder?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    Thanks for the information, Shawn. That certainly makes a lot more sense than anything written on Hashimoto's that's out there on the web. I just couldn't understand how adding in more hormones could make it better when the body is attacking itself.

    What tests would be worthwhile in pursuing to look for a root cause in the autoimmune disorder?
    If its a true case of hashimotos.shutting down one.own.hormones, the.body.immune.system.will.ha ve nothing to.attack. This is why natural.thyroid fails in.many hashimotos.since the body does.not.know.the difference between pig and human thyroid. By.healing the.gi tract people.can avoid thyroid.med or.discontinue their.own. Getting.my.gi tract in check then i.am.stopping my thyroid.medicine. This approach has been successful many.times with drs.patients .
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Subbed as just before xmas I got bloods done and I'm waiting for a full thyroid panel results (and testosterone too) within days
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Subbed as just before xmas I got bloods done and I'm waiting for a full thyroid panel results (and testosterone too) within days
    They are done with in 2 days. I get results with in 24 hours.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    They are done with in 2 days. I get results with in 24 hours.
    not in Europe, good thing tho' is that is free
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    not in Europe, good thing tho' is that is free
    That is nice, but getting dr's to run it is a whole other ball game. I had a guy in france and dr's had no clue what testing I was having him do LOL
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    That is nice, but getting dr's to run it is a whole other ball game. I had a guy in france and dr's had no clue what testing I was having him do LOL
    That's why Ima post results in here and ask for advice lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    That's why Ima post results in here and ask for advice lol
    Mr friends completing her residency in 2014, We will be working together on cases over there..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Mr friends completing her residency in 2014, We will be working together on cases over there..
    Uh!! awesome while i hope i'll be re balancing level by 2014, it's good to know i might need ya

    At first I was inclined to think about test level but my strength and size gains (while hardcore dieting)
    didn't add up, diet-induced low thyroid levels are most likely the issue here, we'll see in few days
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    Subbed for both of your results.
    Good luck and I hope we find more answers as time progresses
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    hello! i have hashimotos too....forums are good but BOOKS are better!! Doctors want money for their information... there is a GREAT book out called HOPE FOR HASHIMOTOS that is by a naturopathic physician...
    I have just started doing the protocol and will let you know how it goes.... for the first time i feel this doctor knows EVERYTHING you need to know.. including ways to FIRST : A) lower the antibodies and B) heal your gland with supplements, C) and try to get it to produce its own hormones, again with supplements. BUT.... basically initially you do use the thyroid hormone to
    feel better by getting your levels up.... but then address the underlying causes/or other factors going on. For me I have bad adrenal fatigue and some antibodies against my thyroid...depression and fatigue.. bad... . this connection to the adrenals is
    mentioned in many books...my doc didnt know it.... the one listed above and David Brownsteins M.D. thyroid book.can't remember the name... ..mentions the adrenals and other things about Hashimotos too... in fact you should get your adrenal glands
    checked out BEFORE they do things to your thyroid..(use a cortisol saliva test) then get a nutrition oriented physician that understands this stuff at acam.org for your area. i was not lucky enough to have this situation... my doctors have not been good at treating my thyroid and now I have taken my health into my own hands, found a NEW doctor and am having all the tests run as suggested in these books. you can look at the books at Amazon.com look for a used one...so its not as expensive.
    good website is about thyroid by mary shomon and also stop the thyroid madness...... GOOD LUCK AND MAY YOUR HEALTH RETURN TO YOU!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thyroidlady View Post
    hello! i have hashimotos too....forums are good but BOOKS are better!! Doctors want money for their information... there is a GREAT book out called HOPE FOR HASHIMOTOS that is by a naturopathic physician...
    I have just started doing the protocol and will let you know how it goes.... for the first time i feel this doctor knows EVERYTHING you need to know.. including ways to FIRST : A) lower the antibodies and B) heal your gland with supplements, C) and try to get it to produce its own hormones, again with supplements. BUT.... basically initially you do use the thyroid hormone to
    feel better by getting your levels up.... but then address the underlying causes/or other factors going on. For me I have bad adrenal fatigue and some antibodies against my thyroid...depression and fatigue.. bad... . this connection to the adrenals is
    mentioned in many books...my doc didnt know it.... the one listed above and David Brownsteins M.D. thyroid book.can't remember the name... ..mentions the adrenals and other things about Hashimotos too... in fact you should get your adrenal glands
    checked out BEFORE they do things to your thyroid..(use a cortisol saliva test) then get a nutrition oriented physician that understands this stuff at acam.org for your area. i was not lucky enough to have this situation... my doctors have not been good at treating my thyroid and now I have taken my health into my own hands, found a NEW doctor and am having all the tests run as suggested in these books. you can look at the books at Amazon.com look for a used one...so its not as expensive.
    good website is about thyroid by mary shomon and also stop the thyroid madness...... GOOD LUCK AND MAY YOUR HEALTH RETURN TO YOU!
    Nothing new or out of the ordinary.
    Fix the Gi tract majority of hashomotos antibodies are reduced due to the decrease in the immune system response. STop the thyroid madness should be Spread the thyroid madness LOL
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Hey man. I have Hashimoto's also, and had a higher antibody count than you at around 250. I also had a high reverse T3, and it went down a bit after getting my vitamin D levels up. I finally convinced my hormone doctor to get my some cytomel (5mg) in order to atleast get rid of the reverse T3. I don't know if I'm taking the right steps in doing this, but like you said there isn't much information on hashimoto's out there. My hypothyroid was pased down from my mom, but she has no antibodies. I started off with a TSH of 11 and am finally down into the normal range at 2.5. My Free t3 and free t4 also went up quite a bit after getting my nutrient levels up. Nevertheless, my testosterone levels are still hella low as I'm only 19. I have a string of medical problems and at 19 have a morning testosterone of under 400. I started off at about 250, but feel that it will be years of treatment and investigation before I get it up to a decent number. Sorry to thread hijack, but Matrix what is your opinion on this? Everyone keeps telling me that I should wait it out and be patient, but you only live once and I'm 19 with no sex drive and sometimes no motive to live. I don't want to be 25 or 26 by the time I get everything fixed and already be settling down having been depressed through the best years of my life. As of now, most of my hormone are in check except for my SHBG being a bit high, E2 low (surpsingly) and my autoimmune hasimotos'. I know SHBG directly impacts sex drive and I'm working on bringing that down, but other then that I couldn't think of anything else. I'm with a very knowledgable hormone doctor who knows her stuff, but even she seems to believe that my test levels are doomed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooraw View Post
    Hey man. I have Hashimoto's also, and had a higher antibody count than you at around 250. I also had a high reverse T3, and it went down a bit after getting my vitamin D levels up. I finally convinced my hormone doctor to get my some cytomel (5mg) in order to atleast get rid of the reverse T3. I don't know if I'm taking the right steps in doing this, but like you said there isn't much information on hashimoto's out there. My hypothyroid was pased down from my mom, but she has no antibodies. I started off with a TSH of 11 and am finally down into the normal range at 2.5. My Free t3 and free t4 also went up quite a bit after getting my nutrient levels up. Nevertheless, my testosterone levels are still hella low as I'm only 19. I have a string of medical problems and at 19 have a morning testosterone of under 400. I started off at about 250, but feel that it will be years of treatment and investigation before I get it up to a decent number. Sorry to thread hijack, but Matrix what is your opinion on this? Everyone keeps telling me that I should wait it out and be patient, but you only live once and I'm 19 with no sex drive and sometimes no motive to live. I don't want to be 25 or 26 by the time I get everything fixed and already be settling down having been depressed through the best years of my life. As of now, most of my hormone are in check except for my SHBG being a bit high, E2 low (surpsingly) and my autoimmune hasimotos'. I know SHBG directly impacts sex drive and I'm working on bringing that down, but other then that I couldn't think of anything else. I'm with a very knowledgable hormone doctor who knows her stuff, but even she seems to believe that my test levels are doomed.
    Hey, man. Thanks for posting. Don't feel like you thread hijacked at all; this doesn't have to be just about me, it was more of a discussion. I've been learning more about Hashimoto's over the past several months. I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but it's nice to know there are others in this lifestyle who have similar problems. I hope you stick around here and if you ever wanna chat, feel free to hit me up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    Hey, man. Thanks for posting. Don't feel like you thread hijacked at all; this doesn't have to be just about me, it was more of a discussion. I've been learning more about Hashimoto's over the past several months. I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but it's nice to know there are others in this lifestyle who have similar problems. I hope you stick around here and if you ever wanna chat, feel free to hit me up.
    Silence the immune system response antibodies will eventually dropped. I have seen this in a number of cases I have worked on where thyroid medication was either discontinued, not needed, or significantly reduced
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    What exactly do you mean by "silence the immune system". I'm a bit confused by this. Hashimoto's is really frustrating because there isn't many studies done on it and it is pretty rare when compared to other disorders. But yeah man I would definitely love to talk and continue this discussion, I would love to learn as much as I can about it. K this is gonna sound bad but it's nice to see someone else on a similar forum with hashimoto's because I can now relate to someone on the same level and with similar goals as me. I got a string of problems at only age 19, and I am trying every day to educate myself in order to be fixed.
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    Oh by the way Matrix, I couldn't PM because I am not at 7 posts but thought I'd ask you here. I know you know a lot of good docs around the USA. Know of any in Albuquerque new mexico? Small city and really hard to find any reviews on doctors.
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    Matrix, I sent you a PM but I don't think it went through. Was wondering if you could let us know what tests should be done to rule out other conditions that could lead to a hypothyroid condition. Looking into these tests from Genova: IgG food antibodies (ELISA), oxidative stress analysis 2.0, NutrEval, Celiac/Gluten sensitivity IgA. If these tests come back negative for other conditions, then will look into Lyme disease and/or pituitary scan. What are your thoughts on these tests and are there other tests that should be done that I haven't mentioned?
    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdub1980 View Post
    Matrix, I sent you a PM but I don't think it went through. Was wondering if you could let us know what tests should be done to rule out other conditions that could lead to a hypothyroid condition. Looking into these tests from Genova: IgG food antibodies (ELISA), oxidative stress analysis 2.0, NutrEval, Celiac/Gluten sensitivity IgA. If these tests come back negative for other conditions, then will look into Lyme disease and/or pituitary scan. What are your thoughts on these tests and are there other tests that should be done that I haven't mentioned?
    Thanks
    PM sent,
    You really need to minimize testing in order to conserve costs. Each case is different so the approach may never be the same.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    So, today I got labs back from a week ago and TPO-Ab are elevated from what they were last time (166 in Dec '11, 216 in Feb '12, 148 in April '11, 179 in June '12) and Tg-Ab came back high (4.1); first time I've had that tested. I had a colonoscopy on Tuesday and the doctor said he saw no problems; follow-up appointment is slated for next Thursday, so I'll have a chance to actually talk to him (only heard from nurses after I woke up). Gluten-free diet did nothing to help lower TPO-Ab, so I'm assuming the underlying cause is outside of that.

    An interesting website I came across (can't remember who referred me to it) is:

    http://www.drhedberg.com

    If you go over to the right hand side of the page and look through the subjects, you'll see both autoimmune disorder and thyroid (as well as a plethora of other things). One of the links goes to a video on Hashimoto's and the potential underlying causes. It's a very short video with only a brief commentary by Dr. Hedberg (video says it's 6 minutes, but it really only lasts about 2 and then is just the image). These are what he lists as potential causes:

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    Lyme Disease -- tested negative for that

    Rickettsia -- haven't had that tested, but based on the results for Lyme and the description of this, I highly doubt it

    GI Infections -- I'm sure this could probably be the culprit, but I've had nothing come back as evidence to support it. Candida IgA, IgG, IgM all negative from blood test.

    Excess Estrogen -- Estradiol has always been a good (in range, but lower) number. Do only women produce estrone/estriol? I've only seen it suggested for men to have estradiol (E2) measured, and nothing else.

    Heavy Metals -- all blood tests show this as negative. However, there seems to be no clear consensus on whether blood or urine is the best way to test this. Also, some suggest chelation must be done prior to urine testing because any heavy metals, after initial exposure, would be in the tissue/organs, thus blood and urine testing would show no results. Anyone have input on this?

    Insulin Resistance -- Only had insulin tested once and it was normal (fasting), but I'm curious about having it measured alongside a GTT or doing an ITT. I know being overweight puts me at risk for this, anyway and there's no real way to directly test this.

    VDR Polymorphism -- I posted in a Vitamin D thread about my Vitamin D 25-Hydroxy and Calcitriol (di-OH) results. Outside of that, I'm unsure of how else to confirm this or rule it out. I see 3-epi-vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy listed as a potential test, but I have no clue what its use really is.

    Gluten Intolerance -- I don't feel any discomfort when I've eaten gluten. The GF diet (over 5 months) made me feel no different, nor did it lower TPO-Ab levels. I previously had an allergist test me for allergies from wheat and a few other things via prick test on the back and nothing showed up as a flag. When on a GF diet, I had a celiac profile that showed nothing. I'm not sure if I should eat gluten and have that test redone. Again, I've had no discomfort when consuming gluten. I know if one has Hashimoto's, they're recommended to avoid gluten for life because of molecular mimicry, but I doubt this is the underlying cause.

    Barrier Systems -- Gut, lung, skin and brain are the 4 he mentions. Other than the lactulose/mannitol (sp?) test, and some others that are listed from private websites, I don't know how to test any of the other barrier systems for their strength or any problems.

    Pregnancy -- hopefully not a concern for men (though I have had elevated prolactin which is now lowered/controlled by dosing caber).

    Viruses -- I had the EBV test and it was negative. I don't show any signs of HSV or anything else I can think of that was mentioned, though I wouldn't rule out a virus, I suppose. Not sure what else would be necessary to test.

    Environmental Toxins -- I avoid plastic as much as I can. I don't know what I could be or have been exposed to that would be an issue for me. I read privatemdlabs' test sheet for environmental toxins, googled each one that wasn't a metal and none seem like anything I would have been exposed to, nor do any of the symptoms seem to match up. This all really snowballed for me about 5 months after I'd been living in KY, so I don't know if it's something I'm ingesting/breathing in my house or at work? Any thoughts?



    Those are what Dr. Hedberg lists, so I don't know what else to look at. Matrix -- if you happen to read this and you have any suggestions on where else to look or what to look at to solve the problem, I'd be overwhelmingly appreciative.

    Along with knowing both TPO-Ab and Tg-Ab are issues:


    - before the caber, I had elevated prolactin (high OOR)
    - I've seen an issue with low D3 before supplementation and now (or maybe always) high calcitriol (hopefully I'll see if that's gone down, soon)
    - rT3 is now in range, but it had been high in the past (stress, I imagine)
    - arginine is low OOR (so I've been supplementing citrulline to attempt to raise it; this could perhaps explain lowered immune function, low NO synthesis and low protein synthesis -- my veins NEVER raise during workouts or ever, anymore)
    - high taurine and histidine (both barely high OOR)
    - low iodine now (because I stopped supplementing it, from what I read about it causing more inflammation for those with high antibodies)
    - 17-hydroxypregnenolone being high OOR (486) to normal (195, now)
    - B6 plasma being significantly high
    - low adiponectin (3 -- ref: 4-26)
    - in range, but low androstendione, DHT, testosterone, pregnenolone and carnitines
    - previously very high OOR 24-hour urine cortisol test, but recent 4x saliva tests done on workout and non-workout day both good/in-range
    - HGH consistently at 0.04 (in range, but very low; not sure if that should be higher or not; ref range is 0.01-3.61)
    - lipase barely in range, very low
    - platelet count in range, but pretty low
    - WBC low OOR once and in range but very low another time
    - FSH and LH both in range on the lower end
    - HDL low and LDL high (both barely)
    - fasting glucose consistently in range, but nearly high OOR
    - ceruloplasmin barely low OOR
    - albumin, AST and ALT have both been barely high OOR
    - iron has been very high OOR once, but in range twice (once before and once after)
    - MCH has been high OOR once (barely)


    Looking at all of that, is there a pattern or something I'm overlooking? I know something is causing the autoimmune disorder, but I don't know where to look, anymore.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    So, today I got labs back from a week ago and TPO-Ab are elevated from what they were last time (166 in Dec '11, 216 in Feb '12, 148 in April '11, 179 in June '12) and Tg-Ab came back high (4.1); first time I've had that tested. I had a colonoscopy on Tuesday and the doctor said he saw no problems; follow-up appointment is slated for next Thursday, so I'll have a chance to actually talk to him (only heard from nurses after I woke up). Gluten-free diet did nothing to help lower TPO-Ab, so I'm assuming the underlying cause is outside of that.

    An interesting website I came across (can't remember who referred me to it) is:

    http://www.drhedberg.com

    If you go over to the right hand side of the page and look through the subjects, you'll see both autoimmune disorder and thyroid (as well as a plethora of other things). One of the links goes to a video on Hashimoto's and the potential underlying causes. It's a very short video with only a brief commentary by Dr. Hedberg (video says it's 6 minutes, but it really only lasts about 2 and then is just the image). These are what he lists as potential causes:

    Name:  Picture 9.png
Views: 213
Size:  162.6 KB

    Lyme Disease -- tested negative for that

    Rickettsia -- haven't had that tested, but based on the results for Lyme and the description of this, I highly doubt it

    GI Infections -- I'm sure this could probably be the culprit, but I've had nothing come back as evidence to support it. Candida IgA, IgG, IgM all negative from blood test.

    Excess Estrogen -- Estradiol has always been a good (in range, but lower) number. Do only women produce estrone/estriol? I've only seen it suggested for men to have estradiol (E2) measured, and nothing else.

    Heavy Metals -- all blood tests show this as negative. However, there seems to be no clear consensus on whether blood or urine is the best way to test this. Also, some suggest chelation must be done prior to urine testing because any heavy metals, after initial exposure, would be in the tissue/organs, thus blood and urine testing would show no results. Anyone have input on this?

    Insulin Resistance -- Only had insulin tested once and it was normal (fasting), but I'm curious about having it measured alongside a GTT or doing an ITT. I know being overweight puts me at risk for this, anyway and there's no real way to directly test this.

    VDR Polymorphism -- I posted in a Vitamin D thread about my Vitamin D 25-Hydroxy and Calcitriol (di-OH) results. Outside of that, I'm unsure of how else to confirm this or rule it out. I see 3-epi-vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy listed as a potential test, but I have no clue what its use really is.

    Gluten Intolerance -- I don't feel any discomfort when I've eaten gluten. The GF diet (over 5 months) made me feel no different, nor did it lower TPO-Ab levels. I previously had an allergist test me for allergies from wheat and a few other things via prick test on the back and nothing showed up as a flag. When on a GF diet, I had a celiac profile that showed nothing. I'm not sure if I should eat gluten and have that test redone. Again, I've had no discomfort when consuming gluten. I know if one has Hashimoto's, they're recommended to avoid gluten for life because of molecular mimicry, but I doubt this is the underlying cause.

    Barrier Systems -- Gut, lung, skin and brain are the 4 he mentions. Other than the lactulose/mannitol (sp?) test, and some others that are listed from private websites, I don't know how to test any of the other barrier systems for their strength or any problems.

    Pregnancy -- hopefully not a concern for men (though I have had elevated prolactin which is now lowered/controlled by dosing caber).

    Viruses -- I had the EBV test and it was negative. I don't show any signs of HSV or anything else I can think of that was mentioned, though I wouldn't rule out a virus, I suppose. Not sure what else would be necessary to test.

    Environmental Toxins -- I avoid plastic as much as I can. I don't know what I could be or have been exposed to that would be an issue for me. I read privatemdlabs' test sheet for environmental toxins, googled each one that wasn't a metal and none seem like anything I would have been exposed to, nor do any of the symptoms seem to match up. This all really snowballed for me about 5 months after I'd been living in KY, so I don't know if it's something I'm ingesting/breathing in my house or at work? Any thoughts?



    Those are what Dr. Hedberg lists, so I don't know what else to look at. Matrix -- if you happen to read this and you have any suggestions on where else to look or what to look at to solve the problem, I'd be overwhelmingly appreciative.

    Along with knowing both TPO-Ab and Tg-Ab are issues:


    - before the caber, I had elevated prolactin (high OOR)
    - I've seen an issue with low D3 before supplementation and now (or maybe always) high calcitriol (hopefully I'll see if that's gone down, soon)
    - rT3 is now in range, but it had been high in the past (stress, I imagine)
    - arginine is low OOR (so I've been supplementing citrulline to attempt to raise it; this could perhaps explain lowered immune function, low NO synthesis and low protein synthesis -- my veins NEVER raise during workouts or ever, anymore)
    - high taurine and histidine (both barely high OOR)
    - low iodine now (because I stopped supplementing it, from what I read about it causing more inflammation for those with high antibodies)
    - 17-hydroxypregnenolone being high OOR (486) to normal (195, now)
    - B6 plasma being significantly high
    - low adiponectin (3 -- ref: 4-26)
    - in range, but low androstendione, DHT, testosterone, pregnenolone and carnitines
    - previously very high OOR 24-hour urine cortisol test, but recent 4x saliva tests done on workout and non-workout day both good/in-range
    - HGH consistently at 0.04 (in range, but very low; not sure if that should be higher or not; ref range is 0.01-3.61)
    - lipase barely in range, very low
    - platelet count in range, but pretty low
    - WBC low OOR once and in range but very low another time
    - FSH and LH both in range on the lower end
    - HDL low and LDL high (both barely)
    - fasting glucose consistently in range, but nearly high OOR
    - ceruloplasmin barely low OOR
    - albumin, AST and ALT have both been barely high OOR
    - iron has been very high OOR once, but in range twice (once before and once after)
    - MCH has been high OOR once (barely)


    Looking at all of that, is there a pattern or something I'm overlooking? I know something is causing the autoimmune disorder, but I don't know where to look, anymore.
    Everything which I have been preaching for over 8 years...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Everything which I have been preaching for over 8 years...
    No doubt.

    Looking at what I've listed out about myself, though, what seems like the next route to look into in an attempt to find the root? I've tried to confirm or rule out as much as I can and so far, no avenue seems to show any light in the tunnel for what needs fixing.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    No doubt.

    Looking at what I've listed out about myself, though, what seems like the next route to look into in an attempt to find the root? I've tried to confirm or rule out as much as I can and so far, no avenue seems to show any light in the tunnel for what needs fixing.
    Those are the same readings as I had which puzzled Dr's or uneducated ones at the time. Not that difficult if you know what you are looking for.
    MTHFR, with MTRR with SOUX possible CBS. I am one of the few people in the United States dealing with SNPS and modulation of them. People who have been home bound for years are getting up and moving as well as driving in matter of weeks. This is the next frontier in medicine. After dealing with some of the most challenging cases you have to look out side the box totally to get people back to proper balance. This what being on cutting edge of medicine is all about ...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Those are the same readings as I had which puzzled Dr's or uneducated ones at the time. Not that difficult if you know what you are looking for.
    MTHFR, with MTRR with SOUX possible CBS. I am one of the few people in the United States dealing with SNPS and modulation of them. People who have been home bound for years are getting up and moving as well as driving in matter of weeks. This is the next frontier in medicine. After dealing with some of the most challenging cases you have to look out side the box totally to get people back to proper balance. This what being on cutting edge of medicine is all about ...
    MTHFR and MTRR make some sense to me (MTHFR looks like it's available as a Labcorp test) as my amino acid profile did show methionine levels in range, but on the lower end. Homocysteine levels have been in range, but definitely on the higher end, so I suppose this makes some sense. CBS had a ton of different things it could stand for, so I'm not sure what you were referring to and I couldn't find anything when googling SOUX. And with SNPs, did you mean single nucleotide-polymorphisms? If so, how do I approach that, as my understanding is it's genetic testing and I have no idea on how to get that done.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast

    MTHFR and MTRR make some sense to me (MTHFR looks like it's available as a Labcorp test) as my amino acid profile did show methionine levels in range, but on the lower end. Homocysteine levels have been in range, but definitely on the higher end, so I suppose this makes some sense. CBS had a ton of different things it could stand for, so I'm not sure what you were referring to and I couldn't find anything when googling SOUX. And with SNPs, did you mean single nucleotide-polymorphisms? If so, how do I approach that, as my understanding is it's genetic testing and I have no idea on how to get that done.
    i can usually identify these through testing already.provides.. Im meeting with Dr who work.with professional sports teams in Philly bring integration medicine in to.the big leagues of.nhl and nlf. we are looking to use this type of testing with athletes . The nutreval would give.me majority of.information needed to come.up with possibility of genetic snps
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Matrix how do you heal gi tract? Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by pressureSpike
    Matrix how do you heal gi tract? Thanks
    Its a not a simple.task and.one.needs to balance the whole body in order to heal.the gut.or.you are just wasting time and effort. Its.not a science but an art form. Each case is different. Its.not.just take probiotics like.people.think .
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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