metabolic syndrome question.

[invictus5]

Hi Guys,

I was diagnosed a year ago with Secondary Hypogonadism. Currently I'm taking 100mg injection of testosterone cypionate every 10 days and the last test was as follows:
total testosterone: 532ng/dL (300 - 890)
Free testosterone: 132pg/mL (47 - 244)
estrogen (e2): 58pg/mL (<48)

Also my previous testosterone test was 1091 and my estrogen was at 110.

I'm getting ready to meet with the doctor again and start looking at taking arimidex. However, my concern is that there may be an underlying issue. In looking at my last physical which was only a week ago I had the following
Cholesterol level: 183 (optimal 200)
HDL: 34 (desirable >40)
LDL: 112 (desirable <160)
Blood sugar: 103 (normal < 100)

Which to seems to me would indicate metabolic syndrome. So that is my question, is low testosterone and high estrogen causing the metabolic syndrome or is the other way around where metabolic syndrome is causing the low t and high e? Note that I am overweight, 6'0 and weigh 250lbs. but no matter what diet or how much exercise I do the weight will not come off.

I'm just trying to figure out if maybe there is something else going on.

Thanks in advance

 

[ssbackwards]

could be some leptin issues.

the low hormone levels can be causes by what i mentioned above. however, thyroid could be an issue here too if weight isnt dropping.

People thing if they have low calories they will lose a lot of weight, which is true to a degree. If your on it for too long your bodys hormonal signaling goes a little out of wack

TSH can appear low/normal with low t3 and t4 levels with RAISED rT3 which can be related to increased Agouti from leptin resistance.

Thyroid is a tremendous hormone in the body that controls a lot of functions, along with the adrenal glands.

Id wait for The Matrix to get in here and give you his opinion

 

[invictus5]

thanks ssbackwards

could be some leptin issues.

the low hormone levels can be causes by what i mentioned above. however, thyroid could be an issue here too if weight isnt dropping.

People thing if they have low calories they will lose a lot of weight, which is true to a degree. If your on it for too long your bodys hormonal signaling goes a little out of wack

TSH can appear low/normal with low t3 and t4 levels with RAISED rT3 which can be related to increased Agouti from leptin resistance.

Thyroid is a tremendous hormone in the body that controls a lot of functions, along with the adrenal glands.

Id wait for The Matrix to get in here and give you his opinion

Thanks for the feedback ssbackwards. That's what I'm wondering. Like I've said for six months I was working out for 1 1/2 hours five days a week. That included weight lifting for three of the days and then aerobics afterwards and on the two off days I was doing 1 1/2 hours on the eliptical. And my diet was around 1800 - 2000 calories a day which I monitored in a food journal. In that entire time I lost a whopping 1 pound.

Since that time I've not been able to go to the gym as regular due to dosage changes (large amount of fatigue) and a sprain ankle but I've actually gained NO weight still pretty much look the same as when I was working out.

Thanks
Invictus5

 

[The Matrix]

Hi Guys,

I was diagnosed a year ago with Secondary Hypogonadism. Currently I'm taking 100mg injection of testosterone cypionate every 10 days and the last test was as follows:
total testosterone: 532ng/dL (300 - 890)
Free testosterone: 132pg/mL (47 - 244)
estrogen (e2): 58pg/mL (<48)

Also my previous testosterone test was 1091 and my estrogen was at 110.

I'm getting ready to meet with the doctor again and start looking at taking arimidex. However, my concern is that there may be an underlying issue. In looking at my last physical which was only a week ago I had the following
Cholesterol level: 183 (optimal 200)
HDL: 34 (desirable >40)
LDL: 112 (desirable <160)
Blood sugar: 103 (normal < 100)

Which to seems to me would indicate metabolic syndrome. So that is my question, is low testosterone and high estrogen causing the metabolic syndrome or is the other way around where metabolic syndrome is causing the low t and high e? Note that I am overweight, 6'0 and weigh 250lbs. but no matter what diet or how much exercise I do the weight will not come off.

I'm just trying to figure out if maybe there is something else going on.

Thanks in advance

Estrogen imbalances which I am seeing due to the Dr not properly adminstering HRT to keep the e2 and T with in the stable limits. When e2 is not in balance this can effect insulin sensitivity by decreasing it significantly. modulation of e2 along with a dr who know how to administer HRT would be highly recommended. If you PM were you are located I be glad to give you some referrals in your area. You need to look at multiple factors out side HRT, Question is do you need to be on HRT or does your body produce it on its own and just need some clomid to get you going. Since being a health consultant for over 20 years, I have learned that having proper hormone balance is only 25% of the equation, you still need to look at neurotransmitters, immune system, adrenals and thyroid, lifestyles, digestion, and other enviromental factors to get the over all pics. This can not be accomplished via forum, but rather one a one to on basis with a health professional who knows what they are doing. The problem is that medical health professioinals specialize in one area (HRT, psyhcology, ect). It is not until you bring all this together to know how each system interacts with each other, then examing deep past medical history, nutrition, other areas will the person get completely well again. Specialized medicine will be a thing of the past with in the next 20 year, but functional or personalized medicine will be pathways health is going. I have been doing my part in this transition, and Dr's who want to make it in the health field need to start learning new methods, not just in their area, but all the others as well.

 

[invictus5]

Hi The Matrix,

It appears I can't do a PM yet until I post seven times. So give me some time and I'll PM you.

Thanks,
Invictus5

 

[invictus5]

Also I should mention that I did try DIM with TMG and it didn't even touch the e2 levels. I have another test result coming in this week sometime. When they arrive I'll post.

Again my endo is stating that he's willing to finally prescribe arimidex but I would like to make sure that this is the right path.

Also the Matrix I can't seem to PM you says your mail box is full.

Thanks,
invictus5

 

[nkautz1]

Those numbers don't look bad, except for high e2. That is likely the culprit. I'm pretty sure it should be around 20 pg/ml.

I had the same fasting blood sugar as you (103) and a diabetes specialist said it was nothing to worry about. He also said I should have been tested for A1C , because it gives you an idea of your average blood sugar over the past 2-3 months.

 

[The Matrix]

Those numbers don't look bad, except for high e2. That is likely the culprit. I'm pretty sure it should be around 20 pg/ml.

I had the same fasting blood sugar as you (103) and a diabetes specialist said it was nothing to worry about. He also said I should have been tested for A1C , because it gives you an idea of your average blood sugar over the past 2-3 months.

One needs to look at the response to insulin in the amount produced when sugar is consumed. Average blood sugar is one thing, the way the body keeps it in check is completely another. Insulin resistance hides making it difficult to find. Its better known as silent inflammation.This is why I look out side the box to see what things it could be affecting indirectly vs directly.

 

[invictus5]

Those numbers don't look bad, except for high e2. That is likely the culprit. I'm pretty sure it should be around 20 pg/ml.

I had the same fasting blood sugar as you (103) and a diabetes specialist said it was nothing to worry about. He also said I should have been tested for A1C , because it gives you an idea of your average blood sugar over the past 2-3 months.

Hey nkautz1,

Yes my doctor was the same way she didn't seem worried at all about the number, but still concerning when I keep reading about how I am now in the prediabetes phase. This is one area I don't want to remain in if at all possible.

As for the E2 I heard the same thing that it should be around 20pg/ml. Which is making me wonder if the E2 levels are part of the cause of the high blood sugars.

Thanks,
Invictus5

 

[The Matrix]

Hey nkautz1,

Yes my doctor was the same way she didn't seem worried at all about the number, but still concerning when I keep reading about how I am now in the prediabetes phase. This is one area I don't want to remain in if at all possible.

As for the E2 I heard the same thing that it should be around 20pg/ml. Which is making me wonder if the E2 levels are part of the cause of the high blood sugars.

Thanks,
Invictus5

Increase e2 will cause down regulation of insulin receptors resulting in possible increased insulin resistance. I believe this answers your question ..

 

[invictus5]

Increase e2 will cause down regulation of insulin receptors resulting in possible increased insulin resistance. I believe this answers your question ..

Thanks The Matrix that does answer the question!

 

[MattPorter]

His e2 was just slightly above high/normal correct? I would not imagine that his numbers would elicit severe insulin resistance. Also, 100mg every 10 days seems like a faulty protocol, and a experienced doctor would put you on a more "stable" dosing schedule. A friend of mine is prescribed 150/week in 3 small shots -- mon--wed--fri--

Matrix -- if super high E2 elicits metabolic syndrome would taking low dose AI's or suicidal AIs increase insulin sensitivity? glucose uptake into skeletal muscle? or indiscriminately go to adipose or muscle?

-Matt

 

[The Matrix]

His e2 was just slightly above high/normal correct? I would not imagine that his numbers would elicit severe insulin resistance. Also, 100mg every 10 days seems like a faulty protocol, and a experienced doctor would put you on a more "stable" dosing schedule. A friend of mine is prescribed 150/week in 3 small shots -- mon--wed--fri--

Matrix -- if super high E2 elicits metabolic syndrome would taking low dose AI's or suicidal AIs increase insulin sensitivity? glucose uptake into skeletal muscle? or indiscriminately go to adipose or muscle?

-Matt

Most likey it would along with possible zinc picolonate at 50 mgs nightly for a few months then tapered back down. My question is "did he do the proper e2 test" I have never seen an e2 testing with those kinds of ranges. Again proper evaluation begins with proper testing. Further evaluation would need to be explored IMO.

 

[invictus5]

Most likey it would along with possible zinc picolonate at 50 mgs nightly for a few months then tapered back down. My question is "did he do the proper e2 test" I have never seen an e2 testing with those kinds of ranges. Again proper evaluation begins with proper testing. Further evaluation would need to be explored IMO.

Hey gang,

I'm currently taking 50mg of zinc nightly and have been for some time. Also the reason why my doctor put me on 100mg of test every 10 days was when I was taking 200mg every two weeks My levels after six months was 1100ng/dL for my total testosterone and my E2 Levels were at 110 (<48). Also in the last few months I've been taking DIM 260mg and TMG 1000MG and you saw my last set of numbers which was the E2 level of 58. I just had my last test done and the results came back unfortunately for me they only did my E2 levels and NOT my testosterone levels so I can't really compare. The E2 level now is at 38, but I suspect my testosterone levels are probably lower too.

As for the test your guess is as good as mine. According to the documentation it just says it's an E2 test doesn't say if it's assay sensitive or the like. Also I believe the lab it says it's from is RLB? Also below is the narrative that comes with the test;

Estradiol Reference Range:
Adult Females:
Follicular: 27 - 122 pg/mL
Midcycle: 95 - 433 pg/mL
Luteal phase: 49 - 291 pg/mL
Postmenopausal: < 41 pg/mL
Males: < 48 pg/mL

Estradiol Reference Range change effective 09/15/08

I don't know if this helps or not?
Thanks,
Invictus5

 

[texastea]

Hi Guys,

I was diagnosed a year ago with Secondary Hypogonadism. Currently I'm taking 100mg injection of testosterone cypionate every 10 days and the last test was as follows:
total testosterone: 532ng/dL (300 - 890)
Free testosterone: 132pg/mL (47 - 244)
estrogen (e2): 58pg/mL (<48)

Also my previous testosterone test was 1091 and my estrogen was at 110.

I'm getting ready to meet with the doctor again and start looking at taking arimidex. However, my concern is that there may be an underlying issue. In looking at my last physical which was only a week ago I had the following
Cholesterol level: 183 (optimal 200)
HDL: 34 (desirable >40)
LDL: 112 (desirable <160)
Blood sugar: 103 (normal < 100)

Which to seems to me would indicate metabolic syndrome. So that is my question, is low testosterone and high estrogen causing the metabolic syndrome or is the other way around where metabolic syndrome is causing the low t and high e? Note that I am overweight, 6'0 and weigh 250lbs. but no matter what diet or how much exercise I do the weight will not come off.

I'm just trying to figure out if maybe there is something else going on.

Thanks in advance

So, your testosterone dropped from 1091 to 532 and your E2 (was it the sensitive) dropped from 110 to 58 without changes to your dosing protocol? On what day were the two lab tests done relative to your dose? Also, did your doctor run labs for your thyroid and cortisol?

 

[invictus5]

So, your testosterone dropped from 1091 to 532 and your E2 (was it the sensitive) dropped from 110 to 58 without changes to your dosing protocol? On what day were the two lab tests done relative to your dose? Also, did your doctor run labs for your thyroid and cortisol?

Hey Texastea,

Yes my testosterone level at 1091 and estrogen at 110 was when I was taking 200mg of testosterone cypionate every two weeks. I don't know for certain on the estrogen test if it was the sensitive assay (from what I am gathering on this forum it may very well not be). I'm still trying to figure that out. But in Sept my doctor switched me to 100mg of testosterone cypionate every 10 days. And Today I just got the results from my dec 2 draw and now I'm back at 352 for total testosterone and 38 for E2. All the tests are done on the day of my shot, so at the very end of the cycle and always at 9am for every one of them. Now the 1091 was from Sept 7., and the 532 was in this Nov 2. and the 352 results were from Dec 2.

Unfortunately all my doctor runs is the e2 and testosterone tests, and I had to beg him to test e2 each time.

thanks,
Invictus5

 

[The Matrix]

Find another DR....

 

[invictus5]

Yes that's what I am currently in the process of doing......

 

[bomb402]

I also read studies that bacterial infections can elevate insulin resistance and lead to diabetes potentially. Any experience with human strain probiotics guys?

 

[The Matrix]

I also read studies that bacterial infections can elevate insulin resistance and lead to diabetes potentially. Any experience with human strain probiotics guys?

90% of the people end up at my door step have GI imbalnaces. Some time probiotics do not work in certain scenerios. It is crucial to understand the indivdual you are working with to get best therapeutic out come. You get the liver, GI tract in check one can stop a lot of drugs AI, thyroid, cortef, ect. I have seen it happen personally. Once I full rebalance my GI tract I will stop thyroid medication as well when I have all greens lights. I have not had a shot of testosterone for almost 7 days and I feel pretty damn good. Considering I only had 60 mgs 7 days ago !! Chasing lab reports and micromanaging hormones as i did for 3-4 years will just setting you back because other things are not incheck. People are starting to wise up about this after 5 years of repeating it over and over again. Those who are not tainted by certain dogmas are the ones will go on to get well or be left chasing their tail for many more...

 

[bomb402]

Well I have read that the human strains are more potent and the animal ones don't colonize all that well. I also posted another thread in this anti aging forum, could you please comment on that? I do have gut issues, but I think my abnormal serotonin conversion is partially to blame for my extremely malfunctioning immune system.

 

[The Matrix]

Well I have read that the human strains are more potent and the animal ones don't colonize all that well. I also posted another thread in this anti aging forum, could you please comment on that? I do have gut issues, but I think my abnormal serotonin conversion is partially to blame for my extremely malfunctioning immune system.

Would make sense, but then go one step further if you have dysbiosis of the bowel then this will cause depressed immune system and lower serotonin. Several factors which could explain not getting rid of gut issues we will discuss this in further detail. I use different probotics for different cases. Not every one is the same and dealing with the same organisms.

In all cases I use
1. Detox - chelate
2. modulate immune system
3. Supplement
4. fine tune

Hormones are not top priority IMO in majority of cases, but working on clearing the inflammation, modulation of immune system through neurotransmitter, as well as proper lifestlyes are