DHEA supplementing while on TRT

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    DHEA supplementing while on TRT


    I'd like to get some input from the anti aging gurus over here about how you all feel about the importance of using a DHEA product if you are on trt?

    With the recent release of our RS transaderm, which is a topical DHEA solution and enjoying great success far, I have heard from more than a few guys who like to use a topical dhea as part of their trt to help hormonal balance.

    It would seem to me to be a great idea and addition, especially if you are not running hcg.

    ambulldog has been running it in his trt after switching from the dermacrine (transaderm is the same old dermacrine formula, with a hugely improved carrier and twice as many servings) and is going to be doing an unbiased comparison review of the two for us after a month of continuous use.

    You can find that thread here:

    my dermacrine vs transderm review is right around the corner

    So any input from the anti aging crowd over here? Matrix, dragonrider, Easy...?

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    I said screw transdermal and just inject it
    Note: you will probably see a new trend in HRT coming into play as I have been using my body as a human lab rat for past few years before recommending it to the Dr's patients I consult with. I have been researching this for a few months and working with a compounding pharmacist on a injectable DHEA which I have been using for the past 3-4 weeks. Results will be posted in a few weeks once I clear issues with billing from the idiots from the labs. I just kocktail it in with testosterone 2 times a week no slapping cream on me 3 times a day. Its easy and has given me benefits orals have not with out the e2 kick up. This is what I was looking for to bring my levels up to 300-350 at my trough. I will also get DHEA 24 hour urine as well in the mid phase. I am curious as this may start a new trend in HRT since it is much more user friendly.

    Benefits so far
    1. No rise in e2
    2. More vivid dreams
    3. better resistance to stress
    4. Better refractory time - can perform 2 -3 times a day vs once
    5. World seems more bright and colorful
    6. Morning wood like clock work
    7. excessive erection during the day
    8. Thinking about sex more often then usual. (dopagenic effect)
    9. Waking up feeling more fresh in the morning - no more coffee needed.
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    is it an esterified DHEA? and what sort of dosage?

    I've thought about dhea, pregnenelone and direct DHT as additions to the injected testosterone of TRT.
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    I am subbed for more discussion and input from everyone on their thoughts about this.
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    Here is a link for you guys to read:

    http://www.lef.org/protocols/metabol...oration_01.htm

    It notes the importance of DHEA in general, explains how it works, and maybe about 2/3 of the way through the article there is a section on its important role in testosterone replacement therapy.
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    Hmm... interesting. In for more.
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    This sounds awesome (injectable esterified DHEA). Now all I need is a clinic to provide esterified DHT, mixed with my test, then I will be free of creams for good. If compounding pharmacies could offer tailored mixes like this for patients, that would be super amazing...

    For now I've ordered more of PP's dermacrine.. was happy to see it come back
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    definitely following
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    DHEA has a short half life and most circulates as the bio-active sulphate. One should not test DHEA levels, test DHEA-S. So your half life concern is not really an issue at all.

    DHEA release is pulsatile. This makes lab results sort of useless. DHEA-S is the proxy.

    Supplemental DHEA is most useful when DHEA level are decreasing with age, which starts in the early 30's. When DHEA is very low, DHEA-->T can be rate limited and supplemental DHEA can sometimes allow for improved testosterone levels. But high testosterone levels will never happen. There is some DHEA-->T in the adrenals that in not controlled by the HPTA feedback loop. That contribution is small in terms of male requirements, but for some female taking DHEA can significantly increase T levels, as female levels are so low compared to males.
    Young men taking DHEA is stupid as they have very high natural DHEA levels. For younger males DHEA may have some negative effects, which can be permanent.

    A few males in the TRT group report that DHEA drives up estrogen and can have some other negative effects, which might all be estrogen related. However, such problems seem to be quite rare.

    found ^^^^ this on another forum i frequent
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    dhea impact on e2 is driven by mode of delivery. Oral can increase e2 because of the first pass of the liver. Td application will.reduce it affect.of down stream metabolism. Injection is just a straight shot avoiding majority of impact on liver. Been feeling sexually like a teenager again better then being on t, hcg and ai.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    dhea impact on e2 is driven by mode of delivery. Oral can increase e2 because of the first pass of the liver. Td application will.reduce it affect.of down stream metabolism. Injection is just a straight shot avoiding majority of impact on liver. Been feeling sexually like a teenager again better then being on t, hcg and ai.
    Thanks for the input Shawn. Would you say if using a TD dhea you might be able to decrease your AI dosage while on trt?
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    It depends on what factors are involved with the elevation of e2.
    Could moving from an oral to TD reduce e2? possible due to how it is metabolized by the body.
    If the e2 is already elevated and no DHEA is taken then no it would not.

    I work on reducing people's e2 by manipulating hormone and detoxification pathways to help manage the estrogen load in the body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluerocket View Post
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    so how many mg per day (or per week) have you been using?
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    Here to learn Matrix ... just started trt about 7 weeks ago so new to all this ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluerocket View Post
    Here to learn Matrix ... just started trt about 7 weeks ago so new to all this ....
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    haha... thanks Matrix .... so far ... pretty good and stable. Will get bw done in about 1-2 weeks and then see what needs tweaking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluerocket View Post
    haha... thanks Matrix .... so far ... pretty good and stable. Will get bw done in about 1-2 weeks and then see what needs tweaking.
    I am sure there are a lot of factors out side of blood work needed attending too.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I agree.... the things that I can control I will put utmost effort to doing things right .... as far as the rest... new territory for me ... and your not in Illinois
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluerocket View Post
    I agree.... the things that I can control I will put utmost effort to doing things right .... as far as the rest... new territory for me ... and your not in Illinois
    The saying is "your not in Kansas" LOL
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    LOL !! yes... and again ... You are correct
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    dhea impact on e2 is driven by mode of delivery. Oral can increase e2 because of the first pass of the liver.
    Yep, that's been my problem with the orals (and I'm almost 54). It's the only thing I have had access to so far. I wouldn't mind experimenting with a TD.
    DragonRider is a fictional character and does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information I share is my opinion based upon my personal experiences only and should not be construed as medical advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon View Post
    Here is a link for you guys to read:

    http://www.lef.org/protocols/metabol...oration_01.htm

    It notes the importance of DHEA in general, explains how it works, and maybe about 2/3 of the way through the article there is a section on its important role in testosterone replacement therapy.
    good post.
    but wouldent taking say teste at HRT levels also cover the DHEA issues?
    is that artical saying that taking testosterone alone is not good nuff ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    This sounds awesome (injectable esterified DHEA). Now all I need is a clinic to provide esterified DHT, mixed with my test, then I will be free of creams for good. If compounding pharmacies could offer tailored mixes like this for patients, that would be super amazing...

    For now I've ordered more of PP's dermacrine.. was happy to see it come back
    I would have got the tranaderm is 2X the servings and half the price and better overall
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blergs View Post
    good post.
    but wouldent taking say teste at HRT levels also cover the DHEA issues?
    is that artical saying that taking testosterone alone is not good nuff ?
    I think it's just saying how well the synergy between the two works. It states the importance of not just total T, which most basic trt protocols concern themselves with, but also FREE T levels. And how supplementing with DHEA should increase the amount of free T that you have. Making it work very well in conjunction with TRT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blergs
    good post.
    but wouldent taking say teste at HRT levels also cover the DHEA issues?
    is that artical saying that taking testosterone alone is not good nuff ?
    Google hormone cascade and look at the images. Testosterone is downstream from DHEA in the cascade, but there are other hormones below it as well. So if DHEA levels are low and that is the cause of low testosterone, fixing testosterone levels,alone won't fix the other hormones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Google hormone cascade and look at the images. Testosterone is downstream from DHEA in the cascade, but there are other hormones below it as well. So if DHEA levels are low and that is the cause of low testosterone, fixing testosterone levels,alone won't fix the other hormones.
    In dealing with over 4 years experience with consulting with medical dr's in regards to HRT. DHEA drop in the majorty of men who commence HRT. DHEA is needed to back fill the hormonal pathways.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Transdermal DHEA is known to immediately boost test as well (due to enzymes in the skin that convert it)

    Will TD DHEA also give a significant boost in DHT?


    Also, I've read that low DHEA is a marker for many possible diseases... anyone have a list? I've been trying to research ones other than the obvious adrenal issues.
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    in on this one. interested to see results/findings
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymrat827 View Post
    in on this one. interested to see results/findings
    I owe lab corp close to $600 bucks because in matter of 6 months they increased there prices for testing significantly. I pay 20% of the difference, but still alot even with top of the line insurance. It am 4-5 weeks in no estrogen issues, at all, I have steady energy all day long. No need for napping or get exhausted in the afternoon at 2 pm when it usually hits me.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRider View Post
    Yep, that's been my problem with the orals (and I'm almost 54). It's the only thing I have had access to so far. I wouldn't mind experimenting with a TD.
    Try it out here for free (just $7 S&H): Needtobuildmuscle.com is giving away 15 bottles of RS-Transaderm for LOGS!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    dhea impact on e2 is driven by mode of delivery. Oral can increase e2 because of the first pass of the liver. Td application will.reduce it affect.of down stream metabolism. Injection is just a straight shot avoiding majority of impact on liver. Been feeling sexually like a teenager again better then being on t, hcg and ai.
    Do you think it would be possible to explain a bit more as to why TD delivery of DHEA reduces e2 via downstream metabolism? Put in layman's terms somewhat for us? lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon View Post
    Do you think it would be possible to explain a bit more as to why TD delivery of DHEA reduces e2 via downstream metabolism? Put in layman's terms somewhat for us? lol.
    By passing the liver as much as possible will result in less conversion of dhea to e2.
    Measuring it can be a little more difficult since needs to be tested in urine. There are some studies shown to increase serum DHEA-S with TD. Jury is still out
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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