Androgel - very confused

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    Androgel - very confused


    Got prescribed Androgel today, first its exp as hell. Im confused about the benefits. I have a 6 to1 T to E and have trouble getting super lean, mass is not a problem. Im worried taking this Im going to balloon up rather than cut. It seems results are split 50/50% Is that because DHT getting increased??Please help.

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    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by balloon up. I've seen people on a buttload of test who were pretty lean and I've seen others who were just plain massive and puffy. I don't subscribe to the theory that one drug will bulk you and another will cut you. Alot of this started because some drugs cause you to retain more water than others. Anyway, my answer is this. Your diet is going to determine which way you go, not the Androgel itself. You will get some benefit if you are bringing your levels way up from where they were. Otherwise, it's pretty much accepted that Androgel in prescribed dosages does very little for muscle growth. I hate to disappoint you but I fear this is going to be a non event unless you get creative . Good luck
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheezscott View Post
    Got prescribed Androgel today, first its exp as hell. Im confused about the benefits. I have a 6 to1 T to E and have trouble getting super lean, mass is not a problem. Im worried taking this Im going to balloon up rather than cut. It seems results are split 50/50% Is that because DHT getting increased??Please help.
    yeap is expensive but if you have insurance maybe pay less
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    yeah its still like 90 a tube though, even with good insurance. I know diet and excise are key. You just read about people getting their T up over a 10/0 and having a lot easier time getting lean...
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    Ditch the androgel and get Test Cyp injections every 2-3 weeks. Androgel is sticky, doesn't absorb, and all the patients I have that use it, still have low levels even with it.

    Mike
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    Bravo. Excellent idea. Even better if you can get the vial and give them yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench View Post
    Ditch the androgel and get Test Cyp injections every 2-3 weeks. Androgel is sticky, doesn't absorb, and all the patients I have that use it, still have low levels even with it.

    Mike
    I agree. Get injectable test for TRT. Hopefully the androseries will be out soon and you won't have to stick yourself for TRT any more. Or rub nasty creams on that could very likely rub of on others around you...
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    BBG whats the androseries
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    Not going to happen. I had hope for the andro series but I gave up. Phytoserm by RLS supps is a good option too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    Bravo. Excellent idea. Even better if you can get the vial and give them yourself.
    Lol that would be much cheaper than watson test cyp pharma grade.

    Mike
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    under my insurance plan a 10 ml 200mg per ml vial of test cyp cost $8. the syringes are not covered for some reason and cost a whopping .20c.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    under my insurance plan a 10 ml 200mg per ml vial of test cyp cost $8. the syringes are not covered for some reason and cost a whopping .20c.
    Are you serious? I never looked into it because at 22, a doc is not prescribing me that lol, but on AAS boards, everyone complains that even with good insurance, its like 90 bucks. I have never seen anyone state it really less than that!!

    You taught me something new or there insurance blows!

    Mike
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    I love me some androgel. I've used it for years. Its true it doesn't absorb well in some patients. Myself, I keep test levels between 900-1000 on 10 grams a day.. I also work with bout 12 guys who are all on it and love it the same
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench View Post
    Are you serious? I never looked into it because at 22, a doc is not prescribing me that lol, but on AAS boards, everyone complains that even with good insurance, its like 90 bucks. I have never seen anyone state it really less than that!!

    You taught me something new or there insurance blows!

    Mike
    pfizer is the brand-my guess is that the pfizer is either considered a generic or else those guys are going to clinics and not regular docs and are getting ripped off. my primay physician gave me my script, i have heard of clinics where you have to buy from them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    pfizer is the brand-my guess is that the pfizer is either considered a generic or else those guys are going to clinics and not regular docs and are getting ripped off. my primay physician gave me my script, i have heard of clinics where you have to buy from them.
    good point, very well could be!

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench View Post
    good point, very well could be!

    Mike
    back in the day there were shady docs who would prescribe amphetamines-only catch was you had to buy from them in their in house 'pharmacy'-and of course their price was jacked. could be the same thing with your buddys test being so high???
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    Ditch the androgel for Testim. Proven 40 percent better absorption !! Look it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presa View Post
    Ditch the androgel for Testim. Proven 40 percent better absorption !! Look it up.
    lol-test cyp injection....look it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    lol-test cyp injection....look it up.
    Only if you use a 21 gauge needle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presa View Post
    Only if you use a 21 gauge needle
    hardcore-ive used 20gauge 1 1/2 inch when they have been out of 21's. there is some sting involved, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    lol-test cyp injection....look it up.
    lmao agreed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presa View Post
    Ditch the androgel for Testim. Proven 40 percent better absorption !! Look it up.
    This what I've been on since 2006. It has kept my levels in the 900 range no problem. Absorbs well too. I've heard taking shots three times a week tends to give you a roller coaster ride, levels up when given shot and slowly go down in between shots. Just what I've heard, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I like testim myself. But just like supplements, everyones make up is different what works for some may not work for others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SufferingEd View Post
    This what I've been on since 2006. It has kept my levels in the 900 range no problem. Absorbs well too. I've heard taking shots three times a week tends to give you a roller coaster ride, levels up when given shot and slowly go down in between shots. Just what I've heard, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I like testim myself. But just like supplements, everyones make up is different what works for some may not work for others.
    3 shots a week??? my doc originally had me on 400mg every 2 weeks-i changed it to 200 weekly. average life of test cyp is around 12 days.

    sorry-you were given bad info-there is absolutely no need to inject test cyp 3xweek.
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    Big T. don't forget about propionate which is 2-3 times a week. However, I haven't heard that name in awhile. That's a sweet dose for TRT. Most docs here won't go over 200 every few weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    Big T. don't forget about propionate which is 2-3 times a week. However, I haven't heard that name in awhile. That's a sweet dose for TRT. Most docs here won't go over 200 every few weeks.
    i thought he was talking about trt-never heard of propionate being prescribed for trt???

    it gets even better-my script is for a 10ml 200mg per ml bottle EVERY MONTH-how is that for saweeet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    3 shots a week??? my doc originally had me on 400mg every 2 weeks-i changed it to 200 weekly. average life of test cyp is around 12 days.

    sorry-you were given bad info-there is absolutely no need to inject test cyp 3xweek.
    No need to apologize. I was just going off of what I heard. Glad the once a week shot is working for you.
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    Stop it T, I'm drooling on myself
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    sorry-you were given bad info-there is absolutely no need to inject test cyp 3xweek.
    Two or even more shots per week help some HRT patients because it can cause less aromatization to estrogen.
    However, he is incorrect that frequent shots cause the roller coaster effect. Injections done every two or three weeks is what causes the roller coaster effect due to testoserone levels dropping too low between injections.
    Once a week should be the minimum frequency needed to prevent test from going to low between injections.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheezscott View Post
    Got prescribed Androgel today, first its exp as hell. Im confused about the benefits. I have a 6 to1 T to E and have trouble getting super lean, mass is not a problem. Im worried taking this Im going to balloon up rather than cut. It seems results are split 50/50% Is that because DHT getting increased??Please help.
    If it absorbs well for you, then the increase in both testosterone and DHT will help you drop bodyfat. When I was on it, it cost me $246 a month after insurance. If you are paying less consider yourself lucky.

    IF your doctor will prescribe it, injections are the cheapest way to go. Some doctors refuse because of the stigma attached to prescribing steroids. Transdermals are just least likely to be abused. It's almost impossible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRider View Post
    Two or even more shots per week help some HRT patients because it can cause less aromatization to estrogen.
    However, he is incorrect that frequent shots cause the roller coaster effect. Injections done every two or three weeks is what causes the roller coaster effect due to testoserone levels dropping too low between injections.
    Once a week should be the minimum frequency needed to prevent test from going to low between injections.
    injecting every 5 days seems perfectly reasonable, but 3 injections within 7 days on test cyp seems extreme to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    injecting every 5 days seems perfectly reasonable, but 3 injections within 7 days on test cyp seems extreme to me.
    You need to get up to date on proper HRT methods. The lower and more frequent the shot the less fluctuation in e2 due to more stable levels.
    We have many guys including my self who were on AI and now do not need them any more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    You need to get up to date on proper HRT methods. The lower and more frequent the shot the less fluctuation in e2 due to more stable levels.
    We have many guys including my self who were on AI and now do not need them any more.
    Do you have any literature, prescribing information or articles expanding on this theory, I just talked to a guy who recently got on shots and hes getting 1 200mg cyp every 2 weeks, and I told him hes in for a roller coaster ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    You need to get up to date on proper HRT methods. The lower and more frequent the shot the less fluctuation in e2 due to more stable levels.
    We have many guys including my self who were on AI and now do not need them any more.
    how often and how much are you injecting?

    i am always open for better results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    how often and how much are you injecting?

    i am always open for better results.
    In our patients we usually inject 2 times a week to keep levels stable in the average person. With people that have higher e2 and lower SHBG EOD injections are a better option. I have been using this with our patients for over 4 years with great results reducing the need for AI which can cause decreases in igf-1, and changes in lipid panel with some people. We also use hcg inbetween dosages at low dosages just stimulate the LH with least amount of e2 increase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    In our patients we usually inject 2 times a week to keep levels stable in the average person. With people that have higher e2 and lower SHBG EOD injections are a better option. I have been using this with our patients for over 4 years with great results reducing the need for AI which can cause decreases in igf-1, and changes in lipid panel with some people. We also use hcg inbetween dosages at low dosages just stimulate the LH with least amount of e2 increase.
    my estrogen is in the mid to low range, and i haven't been using hcg-do you think i will see a benefit at every 3 days versus every 7 days?

    i started trt 8/28/09 and test has gone from double digits up to the 700 range. i am afraid if it goes any higher my doc will reduce dosage.
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