WANT to avoid TRT

jrvswim

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Low Testosterone Running Out of Options WANT to avoid TRT
This is quite a bit of information but I will try to keep it brief.
21 year old, good shape, 6’2’’, 200 pounds, reasonable muscle tone
No history of steroid use – so I’m not trying to restart my system in this sense
Have had many testosterone tests, values ranged between:
290-397 in a ‘normal’ range of 330 to 850
Free Testosterone values:
(8, 8, 9, 11.5) in a ‘normal’ range of 9 to 25
LH values always low I believe a 3 or so in a normal range of 2 to 14
SHBG a level of 16 in a normal range of 13-70 (My doctor told me being low here was a good thing)

History:
- Had varicocele since at least 14 or 15 on my left testicle
- March 4th surgery for varicocele in hopes that removing the (Grade III) varicocele could boost my testosterone levels. My doctor said if my testosterone values were to increase they would increase probably within 90 days. Through ultrasound the varicocele has been confirmed gone.
- I have had testosterone tests every month since the surgery, and well there has not been an increase yet (except for that freak 11.5 free value…then a month later went back down to 9).
- Over the last year or so I have developed near impotency…previously (16-19 years old) I did not have problems, and frankly this is one thing I can’t deal with. I will do anything to fix this problem.
(Quick Bull **** detector question: I had surgery on my left nut, but now my right nut hurts pretty bad, my doctor says that it is probably testicular growing pains—my right nut which didn’t have the varicocele is growing due to better blood circulation???? Possible or bs???)

I am desperate to avoid TRT but if it comes to it I would rather do it than be impotent. This problem has ruined by sex life and really hurt a serious relationship  that’s now over. I’m sure other guys can relate my confidence is gone and its so depressing.

I’m really confused on the possibility of options such as HCG, and clomid. Are they only temporary solutions to a higher testosterone level? Or could they give me a permanently higher testosterone level. Since I have not done steroids before, after taking these drugs would I definitely eventually just go back down to my ‘natural’ current level? How long can drugs like hcg and clomid be taken for? Are they dangerous,I heard with clomid guys can develop breasts. Can these drugs jump start a system even if it wasn’t shut down by steroids ever?
In short I’m getting near the end of the road, and will try any option that would avoid trt. Do I have any left?
 

jrvswim

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yes i have, i dont have the figures right now, but they were fine
 
The Matrix

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Low Testosterone Running Out of Options WANT to avoid TRT
This is quite a bit of information but I will try to keep it brief.
21 year old, good shape, 6’2’’, 200 pounds, reasonable muscle tone
No history of steroid use – so I’m not trying to restart my system in this sense
Have had many testosterone tests, values ranged between:
290-397 in a ‘normal’ range of 330 to 850
Free Testosterone values:
(8, 8, 9, 11.5) in a ‘normal’ range of 9 to 25
LH values always low I believe a 3 or so in a normal range of 2 to 14
SHBG a level of 16 in a normal range of 13-70 (My doctor told me being low here was a good thing)

History:
- Had varicocele since at least 14 or 15 on my left testicle
- March 4th surgery for varicocele in hopes that removing the (Grade III) varicocele could boost my testosterone levels. My doctor said if my testosterone values were to increase they would increase probably within 90 days. Through ultrasound the varicocele has been confirmed gone.
- I have had testosterone tests every month since the surgery, and well there has not been an increase yet (except for that freak 11.5 free value…then a month later went back down to 9).
- Over the last year or so I have developed near impotency…previously (16-19 years old) I did not have problems, and frankly this is one thing I can’t deal with. I will do anything to fix this problem.
(Quick Bull **** detector question: I had surgery on my left nut, but now my right nut hurts pretty bad, my doctor says that it is probably testicular growing pains—my right nut which didn’t have the varicocele is growing due to better blood circulation???? Possible or bs???)

I am desperate to avoid TRT but if it comes to it I would rather do it than be impotent. This problem has ruined by sex life and really hurt a serious relationship  that’s now over. I’m sure other guys can relate my confidence is gone and its so depressing.

I’m really confused on the possibility of options such as HCG, and clomid. Are they only temporary solutions to a higher testosterone level? Or could they give me a permanently higher testosterone level. Since I have not done steroids before, after taking these drugs would I definitely eventually just go back down to my ‘natural’ current level? How long can drugs like hcg and clomid be taken for? Are they dangerous,I heard with clomid guys can develop breasts. Can these drugs jump start a system even if it wasn’t shut down by steroids ever?
In short I’m getting near the end of the road, and will try any option that would avoid trt. Do I have any left?
With low to normal SHBG may not be significanltly important.
One would need to properly examine thyroid and adrenals, lifestyle, nutritoin, sleep patterns, mental stress and possible enviornmental issues. TO get an over all picture of what is going on with the patient. If you need further help you can pm me..
 

jrvswim

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Thyroid + Andrenals checked out good
lifestyle - barely drink, work out all the time
nutrition - eat super healthy
sleep - eh enough 8 or so a night
testicular volumes from ultrasound ..dead average

mental stress- probably very high, mainly about this testosterone issue. I can't help but think it about constantly...but can stress really lower testosterone this far below normal for a 21 year old guy?

THe main question though in my case can clomid or hcg work?
 

STM

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JRVSWIM,
Be careful with the Clomid and HCG stuff. I spent a lot of time looking in to both. I'm deployed right now, and will be for another month. In that time my outlook has changed dramatically.

When I deployed I was grasping for anything that would make me feel better. I settled on Clomid and HCG as well. Through some more research and rational thought I'm starting to think they are last resort options that I'm not ready for. HCG over the long term can desensitize your leydig cells. It has proven benefits in the short term to increase leydig cell size, but will shut down your HPTA and will desensitize your leydig cells if taken long term. Depending on your genetic makeup long term could be weeks or years. Short term it's probably not too risky, but the results rarely last if your testicular problems aren't from a suppressing cycle. It's more of a bridge than a cure (if that makes sense).

Another note on HCG, pulsing HCG is a potential idea that could save leydig cell desensitation for a longer period of time, but it will still shut you down and make you dependent on the HCG for life.

Clomid will undoubtedly raise you T levels while on it, but if you're not suppressed, there's nothing to jumpstart, and the results probably won't last. The increased E you mentioned can lead to breasts, but not always, and that can be handled by an Aromatase inhibitor if it becomes a problem.

So, not great long term potential with either option. I think you'll feel better taking either, but wouldn't expect that better feeling to last once stopping.

Having said all that don't lose hope just yet. I'll get back to you on your PM shortly with where I'm at and my take on stress, attitude, sleep on all of this.
 

Philec48

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Get LH and estradiol tested. If estradiol (E2) is in upper range, it can suppress LH which is the signal to the gonads to make testosterone. If E2 is high, there are treatments that can control it, which will then probably up your T.
 

spinn

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I mentioned this in your other thread. Just because your dr says your thyroid is normal, it doesnt mean it is. You should be in the upper 1/3rd of the range, if not, you are low, especially at 21. When it comes to drs, you have to trust, but verify.
 

longrob

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I mentioned this in your other thread. Just because your dr says your thyroid is normal, it doesnt mean it is. You should be in the upper 1/3rd of the range, if not, you are low, especially at 21. When it comes to drs, you have to trust, but verify.
Do you mean T3 should be in the upper 1/3 of the range?
Is there an optimum value for T4 also?
What are the ranges?
... just trying to understand more of thyroid.
thanks
 

spinn

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Do you mean T3 should be in the upper 1/3 of the range?
Is there an optimum value for T4 also?
What are the ranges?
... just trying to understand more of thyroid.
thanks
generally, for the good things, you want to be in the upper 1/3rd of the range. T3 is the active form and is the most important.
 

jrvswim

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My thyroid values were in the upper range, but i don't have them on hand.
I have never gotten estradiol (E2) tested, that is one thing I will definitely request.

Are there physical signs of high estradiol?

Unfortunately I can't see the doctor again until the 14th but I did get some test results back today from Labcorp..and i just don't get them.

In a normal range of total test of 330-850, my total came back the highest ever at 450. (previous best 397)

My lutenizing hormone also came back its highest ever 5 in a ref range of 2 to 14 (previous best was 2.4)

However, my free testosterone came back the lowest it has ever been. 6.6 in a normal range of 9 to 25. What the hell happened, previous I received results of 8, 9 ,9 and 11.5? I always got these tests in the morning. THe one time i got my shbg tested it was 16 in a range of 13 to 70. How variable is shbg? Is labcorp accurate? How could I get the highest total test ever but the lowest free t ever. Is my shbg level bad?
 

jrvswim

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Also one more thing I decided now to get sensitive estradiol tested on my own at Labcorp tomorrow morning. I have good insurrance so I am going to get my testosterone test again.

Which one is the most advance/ most helpful/ most informative :

144980 Testosterone, Free (Direct), Serum
140103 Testosterone, Free (Direct), Serum With Total Testosterone
143255 Testosterone, Free and Weakly Bound
500726 Testosterone, Free, Mass Spectrometry/Equilibrium Dialysis

ditto on cortisol? which would to pick?

004051 Cortisol
140761 Cortisol, ACTH Stimulation
104018 Cortisol, AM
104000 Cortisol, AM & PM
210823 Cortisol, Eight Specimens
039222 Cortisol, Five Specimens
026948 Cortisol, Four Specimens
104026 Cortisol, PM
039214 Cortisol, Seven Specimens
024091 Cortisol, Six Specimens
028498 Cortisol, Three Specimens
024265 Cortisol, Two Specimens
004432 Cortisol, Urinary Free

081786 Testosterone, Free, Serum (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration) With Total Testosterone
004226 Testosterone, Total, Serum
 

Philec48

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143255 Testosterone, Free and Weakly Bound:

This is otherwise known as Bioavailable Testosterone. It's a good test to get done.
 

jrvswim

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Thanks, I'll get that test done but Philec any idea what would cause this
"In a normal range of total test of 330-850, my total came back the highest ever at 450. (previous best 397)

My lutenizing hormone also came back its highest ever 5 in a ref range of 2 to 14 (previous best was 2.4)

However, my free testosterone came back the lowest it has ever been. 6.6 in a normal range of 9 to 25. What the hell happened, previous I received results of 8, 9 ,9 and 11.5? I always got these tests in the morning. THe one time i got my shbg tested it was 16 in a range of 13 to 70. How variable is shbg? Is labcorp accurate? How could I get the highest total test ever but the lowest free t ever. Is my shbg level bad? "

And can shbg change quickly or is relatively stable>?
 

Philec48

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Could be related to SHBG, or may have been a flawed test result. The bioavailable test for T should shed a good light on your situation.

An LH of 5 is still not that great while T is on the low end. I suspect E2 may be elevated.
Either that, or you may be hypopituitary.
 

jrvswim

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Philec or other knowledgables.., I was going to get my E2 tested Saturday, but i had to get it moved to getting it tested tomorrow (Monday). Does it matter what time of day I get my E2 tested? I know testosterone is highest in the morning...and well I want my E2 to come back as high as possible so if that is the problem I have a better chance of getting something done for it from my doctor.

So what time should i get the blood taken?
 
The Matrix

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DuDE try the DAA PURE. you won't need TRT
One needs to look at several parameters of the thyroid and adrenals to know if there is nothing that is affecting them at the receptors sites. Like rt3, estrodial, CBG ect. I have run into a number of cases that have perfect thyroid according to Dr's then when further examined it shows something different. like i said if you need a good Dr pm me.
 

jrvswim

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Lab Update:

Several of you speculated an estrogen problem, i was hoping it was one because i've read how easy it was to fix those, but it wasn't.

From labcore
estradiol sensitive 13 in a normal range of 3 to 70

I also got a free and weakly bound testosterone test..it was a little later in the day at 11:00 a.m. and i didn't sleep much the night before

total test 382 in range of 280-800
test percent free and weakly bound 27.7 percent in range of 9 to 46 percent
testosterone free plus weakly bound 105.8 in range of 40.0 -250

any thoughts?
is this enough to explain recent ed? or in my head from stress etc?
 
The Matrix

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Lab Update:

Several of you speculated an estrogen problem, i was hoping it was one because i've read how easy it was to fix those, but it wasn't.

From labcore
estradiol sensitive 13 in a normal range of 3 to 70

I also got a free and weakly bound testosterone test..it was a little later in the day at 11:00 a.m. and i didn't sleep much the night before

total test 382 in range of 280-800
test percent free and weakly bound 27.7 percent in range of 9 to 46 percent
testosterone free plus weakly bound 105.8 in range of 40.0 -250

any thoughts?
is this enough to explain recent ed? or in my head from stress etc?
Are you currently in a relationship if so how is it going?
There needs to be more lab work done in order to see where the imbalances lie. There is not enough information here..
 

spinn

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Low estrogen is also a problem. Seems like you should be around 35.
 

jrvswim

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According to what I have seen for men in their twenties the ideal estrogen test. ratio is 1 to 50 and as you get older it decreases to 1 to 20 or so. Matrix what else do i need to be done? I have an appointment on Monday.
 

jrvswim

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is weakly bounded testosterone just as good as free testosterone?
 

jrvswim

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I went to the doctor today and wanted to give an update because I received some interesting instructions.

He thinks:
Over the years that I had a really bad varicocele, by putuitary galnd got fed up sending high LH singles to my testicles, and eventually basically gave up. Now that the varicocele gone, the higher LH is explained by the fact that finally the singles from my brain are actually making things happen downstairs.

In order to explain my higher total t levels but lower free t levels, he thinks my albumin levels (produced by the liver) are too high. He wants me to cut my protein intake by a third. To lower the amount of protein that is converted to albumin in the liver. I do probably eat way to much, I wouldn't be surprised if i ate 150 grams a day. He says shbg also could be high, but there is nothing that can be done about it.

Also he said this sounds unorthodox, but you basically have a liver that is too healthy, and can produce too much albumin. I have not been drinking for while because I always heard it was bad for t levels, but he wants me to drink 2 beers a day, to keep my liver busy and make it essentially less healthy over time.

What do you all think? I know this guy sounds a bit un orthodox, but every year he is ranked number one uro in Richmond, VA and gives lectures all over the place to other uros on low t issues.
 
southpaw41

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Have you had any of the tests below done? I'm in a similar situation; around the same age as you and had a left sided varicocele for years.. I really dont know what to make of my labs at this point. I think raising my dht would really help but dont think thats possible without going on trt. Do you have any of the following lab values? Here are mine...

SHBG: 21 (no range given)
Prolactin: 13 (1.8-14.4)
Cortisol: 22.5 (4.3-22.4)
DHT: 22 (30-85)
Estradiol: 35 (10-52)

By the way do you have a lot of facial/body hair?
 

jrvswim

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Southpaw,

I have not had all of them done, but this thursday i am getting a massive lab workout on basically everything possible from my general med doctor.
I have got already
shbg - 13
estradiol - 10

I'll post the rest when i get them.
I have a decent amount of hair/body hair, but for me apparently it doesn't mean much. If your test. gets low post puberty you don't lose body hair etc. If you have very little body hair, it might me your test. was low even during puberty. However, i do think my beard grows pretty damn slow...which is suppose to reflect test. levels.
 
The Matrix

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According to what I have seen for men in their twenties the ideal estrogen test. ratio is 1 to 50 and as you get older it decreases to 1 to 20 or so. Matrix what else do i need to be done? I have an appointment on Monday.
I do not know where you are getting average information but its more like 20-35:1

Average male18-25 with e2 of 18-22 with shbg 18-22 with TT of 500-650. Do not be fooled by what people tell you. I see alot of young men coming through the door with average of 350-450 and function fine. SOme are 600-700 if you are lucky. People chasing the number game are playing with fire and causing more hormonal imbalances due to upsetting their natural homostasis.

ft3
ft4
rt3
tsh
tpo
tgab
CMP
CBC
ferritin
vap
b-12/folate
vitamin D 25 oh
total testosteorne
shbg
bio Testosterone
progesterone
dht
PRolactin
estrodial SENSITIVE NOT ANYTHING ELSE
cortisol am and free
HA1C
dhea-s
 
southpaw41

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Southpaw,

I have not had all of them done, but this thursday i am getting a massive lab workout on basically everything possible from my general med doctor.
I have got already
shbg - 13
estradiol - 10

I'll post the rest when i get them.
I have a decent amount of hair/body hair, but for me apparently it doesn't mean much. If your test. gets low post puberty you don't lose body hair etc. If you have very little body hair, it might me your test. was low even during puberty. However, i do think my beard grows pretty damn slow...which is suppose to reflect test. levels.
Yea post the results when you can there are a lot of knowledgeable people here who can analyze them. I have never had much facial/body/arm hair so maybe my t levels during puberty were low. Now my free t is at 543 (ill be 23 in a few weeks). But I dont understand that because I was always had high libido through middle school and high school even with my varicocele then it diminished within the past year or so and i got the surgery in Feb. I think the key to fixing my problem is getting my dht in range..
 

TylerDurden7

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I feel for you my man. I too had a varicocele that appeared right around 14 or 15. I've had issues with impotency and had test levels ranging from around their highest at 492 all the way down to 211 recently. I had enough and decided to go with TRT. I get an injection of 150 mg test cypionate per week and my levels hover around 900 ng/dl. You will most likely feel soooo much better if you opt for TRT. I know I do. My strength has skyrocketed way above what is has ever been my whole life. My erections are hard and dont get flimsy during sex. I feel much more confident (not just do to these effects, but just the way the test makes me feel) It's a good feeling man. Your well being is something that is very important, especially at your age. My biggest fears were shinkage, gyno, and acne. I have seen no atrophy as of yet, no nipple sensitivity, maybe a couple of zits but nothing crazy. Im so glad with the decision I made and have no regrets. I want you to feel good man!
 

jrvswim

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Tylerdurden,

Thanks ya I really want to get on trt, but the problem is my current job and future jobs I am applying for give an automatic lay off if you are on trt. They all have very strict standards for physical or mental issues. Eventually I might just say forget it, I would rather feel good physically and not have the job I want, but I am not ready to do that until there is zero hope! I do admit its discouraging when I really have not read any success stories besides trt for this type of problem.

Anyways I got more blood taken today. Waiting on results
dht
cortizone
comprehensive metabolic panel
lipid panel
tsh, 3rd generation
t4, free
prolactin
 

TylerDurden7

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Jrvswim,

I hate to hear that about your job. That seems absolutely morally reprehensible that an employer would treat a worker in that manner. What type of work is it if you dont mind me asking? Man, I could not stand to work for someone who gave no regards to my own personal mental and physical health! This is a medical issue and it sounds like it is impeding you from living the life you want. Test will most likely help you feel the way you want and do the things you want. I will say that I have had some experience with herbal products such as Tbomb II and Vitrix and it seemed to give me a boost. I did not have blood work done but I believe it did elevate my natural test a reasonable amount. So those are options you could check out bro
 

jrvswim

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Thats the U.S. military. That policy applies to basically everyone in the military. If you were in the field for a couple weeks without access to trt shots/creams/etc. you would feel bad and underperform. Basically being dependent on trt is a liability as far as the military is concerned. The amount of things that can get you disqualified medically is pretty extensive, right varicoceles, painful varicoceles larger than the testicle etc.
 

jrvswim

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Got some more labs back, high prolactin level, my doctor wants me to get a second opinion from a specific endo at mcv medical center.
Can prolactin be reduced through medicines etc? If it can be are these meds safe?

Component Your Value Standard Range Units
Prolactin 16.1 4.0 - 15.2


Component Your Value Standard Range Units
T4, Free 1.20 0.82 - 1.77


Cholesterol, total 170 100 - 199 mg/dL
Triglyceride 84 0 - 149 mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol 49 >39 mg/dL
VLDL, calculated 17 5 - 40 mg/dL
LDL, calculated 104 0 - 99


Glucose 85 65 - 99 mg/dL
BUN 16 5 - 26 mg/dL
Creatinine 1.05 0.76 - 1.27 mg/dL
GFR est non-AA >59 >59 mL/min/1.73
GFR est AA >59 >59 mL/min/1.73
BUN/Creatinine ratio 15 8 - 27
Sodium 138 135 - 145 mmol/L
Potassium 4.3 3.5 - 5.2 mmol/L
Chloride 100 97 - 108 mmol/L
CO2 25 20 - 32 mmol/L
Calcium 9.2 8.7 - 10.2 mg/dL
Protein, total 6.8 6.0 - 8.5 g/dL
Albumin 4.5 3.5 - 5.5 g/dL
GLOBULIN, TOTAL 2.3 1.5 - 4.5 g/dL
A-G Ratio 2.0 1.1 - 2.5
Bilirubin, total 0.7 0.0 - 1.2 mg/dL
Alk. phosphatase 60 25 - 150 IU/L
AST 39 0 - 40 IU/L
ALT 34 0 - 55 IU/L
 
southpaw41

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I'm in the same boat as you my past two labs came back in the high prolactin range. This can contibute to ed. My doctor had me get an MRI on my pituitary gland. Didn't get the written results yet but it seems I have two pencil tip size growths on it (talked with him on the phone last night). He told me it probably isnt a big deal but wants me to go see an endo now to review everything with them. Not happy about going to an endo on these issues (i hear they're worthless on the low t topic) but i need to know whats wrong with my pituitary.

From what I understand there are 2 options for pituitary issues. Surgery or a dopamine-producing mediation to lower the prolactin levels. I dont know if these meds are safe nor their names.
 

jrvswim

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Thanks southpaw, sorry about your mri results, i already had an mri and nothing was found. I will try researching further the "dopamine-producing mediation " you mentioned. From what I have found on the web so far there have been studies showing that B6 can lower prolactin, but I have no idea how legitimate they are.
 

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Southpaw, my general med doctor is sending me to an endo who specializes in male pituitary problems. Based on my out of range prolactin level he is really convinced something called hyperprolactinemia is causing my problems. In your case you might have hyperprolactoma.

Heres a bit about it there is tons on the web and from everything I have seen there are meds. avail. and it seems very treatable. I read tons of success stories, with testosterone coming back. High prolactin seems to block lh from the brain to the testicles.

Prolactin is a hormone that is secreted by both men and women. It is released by your pituitary gland, an organ responsible for regulating many of your body’s functions, including reproduction. The pituitary gland is a small, bean-shaped organ located in the middle of your brain. Your pituitary gland releases prolactin on a daily basis, both in the morning and throughout the night. Certain activities like sexual intercourse and exercise also cause your pituitary gland to release prolactin
Effects on Male Fertility
Like prolactin infertility in women, prolactin can also affect male fertility. In fact, if you have too much prolactin in your blood stream it can cause you to become infertile. High prolactin levels have an adverse affect on the function of your testicles, and can cause decreased testosterone levels or abnormal sperm. This can cause serious problems when it comes time to conceive. Normal prolactin levels in men are typically less than 15 ng/mL. Elevated prolactin may indicate a condition called hyperprolactinemia, and this could account for your fertility difficulties.

Hyperprolactinemia
You can be diagnosed with hyperprolactinemia when you have more than 15 ng/mL of prolactin in your bloodstream. Symptoms of excess prolactin are often internal and difficult to see. Symptoms can include:


decreased sperm count
hypogonadism (in which your testes do not produce the right amounts of testosterone)
decreased sex drive
impotence

If you have hyperprolactinemia, you will probably show few outward signs, making diagnosis difficult. However, some men with the condition do develop gynecomastia, a condition in which the breasts enlarge and look similar to a woman’s. This is a often a sign of high levels of prolactin.

Causes of High Prolactic Levels
Elevated prolactin levels in men are usually the result of overactive prolactin cells in the pituitary gland. These cells begin to grow into a tumor, called a prolactinoma, on your pituitary gland. Prolactinomas secrete prolactin hormone, and, as a result, can lead to extremely high levels of the hormone in your body. Prolactinomas in men are often larger than in women, mostly because the symptoms of the disorder are more difficult to recognize in men. In fact, prolactinomas can grow up to 5 cm in width and, if untreated, can leave you permanently infertile.

Symptoms of prolactinoma include:


sexual dysfunction
loss of sex drive
decrease in body hair
fatigue
depression
headaches or vision loss (as the tumor presses against the optic nerve in your brain)

Other Causes
Occasionally, other factors may play a role in elevating your prolactin levels. These include:


prescription medications (like antidepressants and opiates)
thyroid disease
shingles

Treatment for Prolactin Irregularities
If you have hyperprolactinemia that is affecting your fertility, there are treatments available to you. Speak with your health care provider about your options.


Dopamine-producing medication: these medications can lower prolactin levels and shrink prolactinomas. They often restore fertility.
Surgery: surgery is sometimes used to reduce the size of a prolactinoma.

just google it to find more
 
southpaw41

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Southpaw, my general med doctor is sending me to an endo who specializes in male pituitary problems. Based on my out of range prolactin level he is really convinced something called hyperprolactinemia is causing my problems. In your case you might have hyperprolactoma.

Heres a bit about it there is tons on the web and from everything I have seen there are meds. avail. and it seems very treatable. I read tons of success stories, with testosterone coming back. High prolactin seems to block lh from the brain to the testicles.

Prolactin is a hormone that is secreted by both men and women. It is released by your pituitary gland, an organ responsible for regulating many of your body’s functions, including reproduction. The pituitary gland is a small, bean-shaped organ located in the middle of your brain. Your pituitary gland releases prolactin on a daily basis, both in the morning and throughout the night. Certain activities like sexual intercourse and exercise also cause your pituitary gland to release prolactin
Effects on Male Fertility
Like prolactin infertility in women, prolactin can also affect male fertility. In fact, if you have too much prolactin in your blood stream it can cause you to become infertile. High prolactin levels have an adverse affect on the function of your testicles, and can cause decreased testosterone levels or abnormal sperm. This can cause serious problems when it comes time to conceive. Normal prolactin levels in men are typically less than 15 ng/mL. Elevated prolactin may indicate a condition called hyperprolactinemia, and this could account for your fertility difficulties.

Hyperprolactinemia
You can be diagnosed with hyperprolactinemia when you have more than 15 ng/mL of prolactin in your bloodstream. Symptoms of excess prolactin are often internal and difficult to see. Symptoms can include:


decreased sperm count
hypogonadism (in which your testes do not produce the right amounts of testosterone)
decreased sex drive
impotence

If you have hyperprolactinemia, you will probably show few outward signs, making diagnosis difficult. However, some men with the condition do develop gynecomastia, a condition in which the breasts enlarge and look similar to a woman’s. This is a often a sign of high levels of prolactin.

Causes of High Prolactic Levels
Elevated prolactin levels in men are usually the result of overactive prolactin cells in the pituitary gland. These cells begin to grow into a tumor, called a prolactinoma, on your pituitary gland. Prolactinomas secrete prolactin hormone, and, as a result, can lead to extremely high levels of the hormone in your body. Prolactinomas in men are often larger than in women, mostly because the symptoms of the disorder are more difficult to recognize in men. In fact, prolactinomas can grow up to 5 cm in width and, if untreated, can leave you permanently infertile.

Symptoms of prolactinoma include:


sexual dysfunction
loss of sex drive
decrease in body hair
fatigue
depression
headaches or vision loss (as the tumor presses against the optic nerve in your brain)

Other Causes
Occasionally, other factors may play a role in elevating your prolactin levels. These include:


prescription medications (like antidepressants and opiates)
thyroid disease
shingles

Treatment for Prolactin Irregularities
If you have hyperprolactinemia that is affecting your fertility, there are treatments available to you. Speak with your health care provider about your options.


Dopamine-producing medication: these medications can lower prolactin levels and shrink prolactinomas. They often restore fertility.
Surgery: surgery is sometimes used to reduce the size of a prolactinoma.

just google it to find more
Thank you for the information this is helpful. I have an appt. with an endo this monday and will definitely bring this up. I still haven't got the written report of my MRI so I don't know what these so called growths on my pituitary actually are at this point...

Hyperprolactinaemia would explain almost all of my symptoms including fertility which I have proof of poor results (two poor sperm labs from Dec-Jan 09/10). I'm actually going for my first post varicocele operation sperm test Friday so we'll see how that goes. Probably will be the same if I had to guess.

Wouldn't life be great if we could just avoid trt all together and just take a dopamine-producing medication to solve all of these problems. :fest30:

Good luck with your endo appt. and keep us posted. I will do the same I have my own thread somewhere on male anti-aging medicine
 

jrvswim

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As far as Prolactin levels are concerned what is considered ideal?
Mine was 16.1 in a normal range of 4.0-15.2. Do you want Prolactin levels just to be as low as possible say a 4 or 5? Or is it best to have prolactin in the middle of the range say 9 or 10?
 

sp00ked

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My lab says the reference range for Prolactin is 1.6-18.8
My prolactin levels were 9.0 4 months ago and 20.4 last month, so I'm no expert but it looks like it can vary widely?
 
southpaw41

southpaw41

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As far as Prolactin levels are concerned what is considered ideal?
Mine was 16.1 in a normal range of 4.0-15.2. Do you want Prolactin levels just to be as low as possible say a 4 or 5? Or is it best to have prolactin in the middle of the range say 9 or 10?
I remember my general doctor saying it’s typical for males my age (I’ll be 23 next week) to be around 3 or 4 (on a 1.8-14.4 scale) for prolactin.
 

jrvswim

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Update:

So last friday I went to the endo who specializes in male hormone problems. He said although my prolactin is higher than normal and I by definition do have hyperprolactemia; because my mri does not show a tumor, my prolactin levels are not high enough to warrant treatment. He said prolactin levels need to be atleast two or three times my level to warrant action.

He thinks the majority of my testosterone problems are from worrying and stress. He thinks that stress and anxiety are enough to lower testosterone levels from the 700's to the high 300's easily. I don't know what to believe. He wanted to prescribe me an anti-anxiety med. but I told him that wasn't an option so he wants me to try things like yoga, accupuncture, and eastern herbal meds.
I tried yoga yesterday and will go to it again tonight, what do you all think of these recommendations? Have any of you ever had experience with accupuncture? Ill give it a try i have decided, by i am very skeptical.

As far as my LH is concerned:
As I have posted previously by LH has always been around a 2 in a 2ish to 9ish range. But, my most recent LH game back as a five in the same range. My uro was excited about this. His theory was that my Putuitary had been sending LH signals to my testicles for a quite a long time with little results due to the varicocele (it was a three), so eventually my putuitary gave up. Now that my testicles are more responsive he believes my putuitary is waking up.

The endo I saw said this was nonsense and that because LH is emitted in pulses throughout the day the 2's could of easily came from trough readings and the 5 could of came from a peak? Who is right? Can the range of trough to peak really be that great? Or is my rising LH and somewhat higher test. something to be hopeful about?

My uro and the endo however both believe my test. will continue to rise over the next 6 to 9 months (ever though it has already been nearly 4 months since surgery).

Advice>? Opinions?
 

diesiel

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The thing is, Stress and anxiety can also be caused by Low T.

T is there to make you resilient to stress and anxiety. Chicken and the egg argument which ****s everything up
 

aronaronaron

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To be honest JVRSWIM i think that your endo is speaking out of his arse if he thinks its stress thats causing your low t im in the exact same position as you (low to due to varicocele) And i had low t symptoms before i ever read about varicoceles causing low t.
 

jrvswim

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Ya i think its Bull **** too i just wondering who is write about the LH, and both doctors think that my test. will continue to climb over the next 6 months or more. But every doctor I go to disagrees with others, so i never know what to believe.
I'm looking into hcg to just replace my LH, but i'm still confussed on whether it can be taken for years.
 

aronaronaron

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JVRSWIM what are your symptoms mate ??? are you tired all the time???


Mine are as follow




* Fatigue

* very low libido

* weak erections

* no morning wood

* mild depression

* very little facial hair

* and im weak considering how long ive been at the gym



All this and im only fukin 18, whoever said being this age is the best time of your life has obviously never ****ing came across me !!
 

jrvswim

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Aron ya we are basically the same. I'll give it until maybe this Fall and wait and see like the doctors want...but after that i might just crack and go to an anti-aging doctor who will actually prescribe something.
 

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