Test Levels Low Options

[SlickG3]

I recently had my test levels checked because I felt like I was experiencing symptoms of low levels. My first test came back and had a total testosterone level of 212. I went to an endrocrinologist to see what could be done. My levels were checked again 15 days later and they were at 364 and total free test was 11.3. The endo said my levels came back in the normal range and no treatment would be needed, everything was fine. I argued her decision, as after reading up a little bit, I believed the levels were to low even though it was in what she considered the normal range (300-800). I am 25, and from what I understand I should be between 500-700. Anyways she stated we could re-test in 3 months. My question is though what experience have you had with this type of situation? Is there something I can take temporarily to help boost my levels and get a permanent boost? I have not taken anything in the past 16 months. The last cycle I ran was 1-T Tren by Primordial Performance and I ran there Post Cycle stack afterwards. I have taken Epistane, M1T, Tren (low dosages), and M1T in the past 5 years, but with what I thought were proper precautions and post cycle therapies. As far as reasons my test would be low the only thing that comes to mind is a recent promotion with increased stress. Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

I have also been looking at some OTC supplements like Testopro, Formadrol XT, and Testosterone Conversion Factor-1. Could any of these help my natural production boost back up to its normal level? My doctor is under the impression my levels should return to what is considered normal in 3 months. I want something to help boost them there.

 

[spinn]

I say the the same thing on every post. Do not, under any circumstances, trust an endocrinologist, ever. Their job is to treat diabetes and prescribe lipitor and prozac to every man, woman and child on earth. Yes you are low, even at 364 (my dr thinks 500 is the floor, and I am 44). I think whatever you took from primordial performance shut you down, hopefully temporarily. I wouldnt take anything else to "boost" test as it may compound the problem. I would also have thyroid and adrenals checked out. Your endo should of done that already.

 

[SlickG3]

The endo said my thryoid and other levels were normal. I think I am going to stay away from supplements except the staples until my follow up appointment and see where I am at then. I will perform mostly compound exercises daily to help.

 

[spinn]

The endo said my thryoid and other levels were normal. I think I am going to stay away from supplements except the staples until my follow up appointment and see where I am at then. I will perform mostly compound exercises daily to help.

My cynicism has been earned. When your endo said they were normal, that often means normal for a 95 year old. I can not state strongly enough that you must get a copy of your labs, and ranges. You can not trust an endo with any aspect of your care. I had several endos tell me I was fine, just lacked ambition, even though my numbers were on the bottom of the range.

 

[unc21]

^^^Agreed.

Get your full lab results and post them on here and we can go from there.

If hes unwilling to help you, go to another doctor. There are plenty that will help you with your test being that low.

 

[Philec48]

My ex-endo wanted to give me a statin drug when my total cholesterol was only around 220, at the same time that my HDL/LDL ratio was excellent!

He didn't even bother to test VLDL first before giving me something that #1, I didn't need, and #1 could have messed up my muscles and liver, as well as messing with production of cholesterol dependent (most of them are) hormones.

After I left that quack, my VLDL was tested and was on the low end of the scale.

Maybe there are some good endos out there. But it might be like searching for hen's teeth in a haystack. This is just my humble, non-professional, statistically non-vetted opinion.

 

[spinn]

My ex-endo wanted to give me a statin drug when my total cholesterol was only around 220, at the same time that my HDL/LDL ratio was excellent!

He didn't even bother to test VLDL first before giving me something that #1, I didn't need, and #1 could have messed up my muscles and liver, as well as messing with production of cholesterol dependent (most of them are) hormones.

After I left that quack, my VLDL was tested and was on the low end of the scale.

Maybe there are some good endos out there. But it might be like searching for hen's teeth in a haystack. This is just my humble, non-professional, statistically non-vetted opinion.

They must be medical sweathogs. They earn less than almost any other type of DR, earning only $212,000 a year to be right 2% of the time. Where do i sign up??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialty_(medicine)

 

[SlickG3]

I will get the results this week and post, thanks.

 

[JanSz]

I will get the results this week and post, thanks.

You have ran all kind of stuff.
That screwed you.
There is also possibility that you had it coming anyhow.
Right now the question is what are you going to do going forward.

There is very little success with any restarts, mostly people just compromise (heavily).
Being 25yo you may worry about fertility.
You will need testosterone supplementation (for life)
Make sure that you take a little bit of HCG all the time.
Some try to make it with HCG alone.
That is another compromise that leads to no-where.

Other than testosterone/estradiol/DHT/SHBG
you may have problems with other areas
glucose/insulin
adrenals
thyroid

If you are able, do my long list of tests, post #44, between blue lines, here:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

plus be prepared for more testing.

If not, keep working just on testosterone/estradiol/DHT/SHBG


.....

 

[SlickG3]

Ridiculously busy week, will post results next week.

 

[DT5]

why do people go to endos. go see a urologist who deals with mens fertility and hormones.

 

[Philec48]

Some ob/gyn's treat men's hormone issues. Think about it. Women have more complex hormone issues, so treating men once in a while gives them a break.

It's no shame to ask a few. You may be surprised at how willing they are to treat you. You just have to keep a straight face when filling a prescription, and the clerk at the drugstore says, "Hey, isn't he an ob/gyn?" You just reply in a deep voice, "He also treats men". lol

 

[The Matrix]

Need to identify why it is low
1. poor sleep, lifestyle, and unbalanced meals
2. Excessive amount of stress (emotional, biochemical, ect)
3. hidden biological or environmental stress expsoures, hidden infections
4. Nutritional deficeincy or imbalances (zn, mg, copper, ect)
5. low thyroid or adrenal imbalance
6. Heavy metals
7. low LH - secondary hypo T
8. prediabetic state

As you can see there are alot of things that need to be examied. if you need a referrence please PM me.

 

[SlickG3]

Well quite some time has passed since I have posted on this thread, and unfortunately I am still dealing with the original question are my hormone levels out of whack or is this normal for me? Going back to where I left off, the endo I originally went to see sent me for an MRI of the pituitary which came back clean. I ran a series of blood tests with her and the results where as follows.

3/30/10 @ 15:44
Testosterone, Serum 217 ng/dl

4/15/10 @14:13
Testoserone, Serum 368 ng/dl
Free Testosterone(Direct) 11.7 pg/ml
LH 3.32 mIU/ML
FSH 2.76 mIU/ML
17-OH Progesterone 105 ng/dL
Prolactin 9.15 ng/mL

8/31/10 @ 10:50
TSH, 3rd Generation 1.34
T4, Free 1.3
FSH 3.1 mIU/mL
LH 4.9 mIU/mL
Testoserone, Total 299 ng/dL


I got nowhere with this endo. She relentlessly backed the notion that these levels were normal for me, and that I didn't need any treatment. I was confused. Were the symptoms in my head? I went to see another doc who had an article regarding male menopause in a local doctor magazine. He initially tested me then reviewed what he considered to be where my options. We agreed testoserone therapy to include injections was not the best route because of my age and desire to have another child in the future. He recommended clomid therapy, however in long term usage. I was skeptical at first, but decided to give it a try atleast for a little while. The following results were yielded.

10/26/10 @ 1610 (Initial bloodwork before starting clomid therapy)
Testoserone 227 ng/DL
Free Testosterone 49.6 pg/mL
Test Bioavail 117 ng/DL
SHBG 13 nmol/L
Albumin, Serum 5.2 g/dL
TSH 2.340 MCIU/ML
Free T4 1.03 NG/DL
T3 Free 3.23 PG/ML
Estradiol <20 PG/ML

We saw an initial spike in blood levels after 1 month of Clomid use
355 Total Testoserone
62.2 Free Testoserone

3/01/11 @ 14:20 (After several months of Clomid usage)
Testoserone 561 ng/dL
Testoserone Free 78.5 pg/mL
Testo Bioavail 178.5 ng/dL
SHBG 31 nmol/L
Albumin, Serum 5.0 g/dL
TSH 1.800 MCIU/ML
Free T4 1.03 NG/DL
T3 Free 3.63 PG/ML
Estradiol 40

I was pleased with these results, however I was concerned with some of the feedback I recieved from other medical professionals about this particular doctor and the unstudied usage of long term clomid usage for testosterone therapy. The doctor confirmed there were no studies, but that he had been taking it for 4 years. The fact he seemed a little strange did not help my opinion. I decided to seek a 3rd opinion from a urologist I was referred to by a friend in the medical field.

The urologist agreed with the opinoins of the other medical professionals regarding this doctor, his practices, and long term clomid therapy for testosterone. It was unsafe. Fortunately I had stopped taking the clomid about 2 weeks before this appointment, and we retested.

5/17/11 @ 15:40
Testoserone 285
DHEA 608
Triglycerides 304


After these results I was convinced I needed to readjust my diet and lifestyle to see if I could make some progress there. I stopped the clomid and retested.

9/07/11 @ 1002
Testoserone 319 ng/dL
Free Testoserone 65.7 pg/mL


I was pleased with these results, a little progress! Maybe I didn't need any therapy. A few months later certain symptoms seemed to be reappearing, lack of libido, motivation, fatigue. I retested.

2/1/12 @ 16:11
Estrogen, total 120
Testoserone 201 ng/dL
Free testoserone 49.4 pg/mL


I have not spoken to the doc yet, but I am concerned. I have been pretty good with my diet (better than most), exercise pretty regularly (when I have the motivation lately), is this normal?


My questions are the following:

Based on my little documentary of my progress what is your opinion?
Is it possible for a person to have normal levels for them that are this low?
Is there anything in the bloodwork figures I have posted that stick out to you?
Has any progress been made in this field with alternatives to testosterone replacement therapy?
What move should I make next?


Thanks for your time and opinions

 

[TML499]

Hmm so your test fell off rapidly once getting off the clomid? I can't answer many of your questions because you seem to have gone through this further than I have, but what dosage of clomid were you using? Did you taper off at all?

 

[v4lu3s]

Did any of the doctors even say why clomid was unsafe?

 

[SlickG3]

I started off at 50mg a day for like 10-12 days then dropped to 25mg a day. I tapered off when I stopped per the docs orders. The lack of scientific and medical studies on long term clomid use was the basis behind the reasoning that clomid is unsafe as long term testosterone therapy. She also mentioned it has proven to cause cancer in women with long term treatment. I saw the doc again yesterday, and we did another complete blood test to review for any deficiences, waiting on these results. She explained that I only had 1 option if I wanted to do something proven and safer, test injections. There was a possibility I would not become completely infertile if i started and could still father another child, but she recommended going to a fertility clinic to be safe.

 

[v4lu3s]

Test replacement has a much higher chance of redjucing fertility than clomid ever will. As far as cancer and clomid there is research that shows an association and there is research that shows no association at all. I personally would not be worried about cervical cancer or ovarian cancer though, plus the dosages you need for higher test are less and less frequent than given for fertility.

 

[The Matrix]

New evidence has show as well as I what I was saying years ago people can cause a down regulation to LH from too much clomid. IT is now being found people respond to as low as 12.5 mgs EOD or m,w,f. One needs to start and adjust upwards ever 2-3 weeks under dr super vision