Varicoceles, Joint Pain, and Depression

[TESTme17]

I'm new to this forum but I already like what I see on the boards. A very good group here.

Just to say a bit about me:

Recently turned 21 but I feel like I'm trapped in an 80 yr old body.
I've had vague knee pain since I was 17. X-rays (several )and MRIs(2) didn't find anything over the years. But I have a terrible popping and clicking sound that makes it hard for me to do any type of exercise as even standing for a while hurts. I
've had a scrotal ultrasound done a month ago for my testicular pain and was told I have a cyst (benign) and bilateral varicoceles. Urologist didn't think they were too much of a problem though.

Had several blood tests done.

Total testosterone was checked 3 times and free T done twice. All were done in the morning.

Total T- 430,400 and 404.
Free T- Both were higher than the max side of the range-- something like 2.6 with the max 2.2 (I don't have the paper results for these I just wrote them down)

TSH in July of 2009 was 1.05 (range: 0.4-4.5)
TSH in Jan of 2010 was 0.65 (range: 0.4-4.5)

Doctors still consider it normal though and the only thing that was of concern was vitamin D which was in the toilet but has since been adjusted. Meanwhile, I have terrible fatigue, concentration issues, low libido, and depression--primarily caused by the fact that this joint pain and fatigue is robbing me of my youth and ability to be as athletic as I once was. I'm getting more tests done including a hormone profile. But my therapist suggested an SSRI like a Lexapro or Zoloft. She said this sounds like depression (I've also had gastritis that hasn't gone fully gone away after taking prilosec). The left varicocele does cause pain but can it cause everything else like the joint pain and fatigue? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[TESTme17]

I should also mention that I am healthy otherwise and my diet and weight are good. (5'10 175 lbs)

[blastedlooger]

I just had my varicocele fixed a few weeks ago. He definitely got the main one but I feel like I might still have a smaller one. I've also had fatigue issues but I'm not sure if its the varicocele that caused it. I haven't noticed any improvement in how fatigued I am.

I've done so much research about what could be causing the fatigue that it's getting confusing. I take all kinds of supplements. I can't really help with your fatigue because it turns out there are all kinds of things that can cause those symptoms.

[TESTme17]

I just had my varicocele fixed a few weeks ago. He definitely got the main one but I feel like I might still have a smaller one. I've also had fatigue issues but I'm not sure if its the varicocele that caused it. I haven't noticed any improvement in how fatigued I am.

I've done so much research about what could be causing the fatigue that it's getting confusing. I take all kinds of supplements. I can't really help with your fatigue because it turns out there are all kinds of things that can cause those symptoms.

And what kind of varicolectomy did you have? microsurgical? And do you think it was worth it? I'm getting a semen analysis this week...

[blastedlooger]

Well my parents and insurance paid for it so I think it was worth it. If I had to throw down the 8g's for it maybe I would have a change of heart.

I had conventional with a 2.5 inch incision below my waist. It healed very well and I don't think it will even leave a scar.

Feels a lot better now though.

[TESTme17]

Well my parents and insurance paid for it so I think it was worth it. If I had to throw down the 8g's for it maybe I would have a change of heart.

Feels a lot better now though.

I'm looking into getting the surgery done. Did you get the micro surgery, embolization or something else. I really hope that in some way it will make my joints feel better because I already had a surgery for my knee that I don't think was necessary-- it didn't make the pain worse but I just think it was necessary--just money down the hole, I guess.

[blastedlooger]

It won't fix your joint pain. It could have caused other hormonal problems that are causing achey joints or something.

I edited my previous. I had conventional and it went well.

[blastedlooger]

O, btw. How big are your varicoceles? Mine was huge and was wrapped around to the bottom of my testicle. Huge heat and huge sagging. My left testicle sags at the same level as my right now.

I still have some pain but I'm not sure if it's from the same thing. I still feel a vein in my left thats bigger than the right but will wait to decide what's going on. It's still way better than before either way. The difference in what I can feel in my testicle is insane. My testicles were constantly sagging extremely low before and it was annoying to say the least.


Try MSM and Super Cissus from USPlabs for your knee.

[yoss]

I don't mean to interrupt your nut tumor comparisons but I thought I might drop in my own joint pain experience. I suffered some movng joint pain, whatever I used would hurt , hips, shoulder , knees ect. Really frustrating , especially when you are making good progress only to be laid up for a few weeks because you can't hardly walk. Additionally I would occasionally experience the physical symptoms of anxiety or panic while remaining mentally calm - I didn't at the time realise this is also known as a cardiac arrythmia. Anyway long story short is that magnesium glycinate(oxide is worthless) taken before bed completely cured my symptoms.

If you do a little search you will find most americans are deficient of the admitedly meagre RDA and that deficiency is connected to many common health problems. If you guys are taking a pile of supplements already you might as well give it a try its pretty cheap stuff

[TESTme17]

O, btw. How big are your varicoceles? Mine was huge and was wrapped around to the bottom of my testicle. Huge heat and huge sagging. My left testicle sags at the same level as my right now.

I still have some pain but I'm not sure if it's from the same thing. I still feel a vein in my left thats bigger than the right but will wait to decide what's going on. It's still way better than before either way. The difference in what I can feel in my testicle is insane. My testicles were constantly sagging extremely low before and it was annoying to say the least.


Try MSM and Super Cissus from USPlabs for your knee.

Mine are not terribly large. I can definitely feel it on my left side but I think its a combination of the cyst and the varicocele. It's nothing very large but I do feel a dull pain from it occasionally. If I were to get it repaired, it would be microsurgically.

[TESTme17]

I don't mean to interrupt your nut tumor comparisons but I thought I might drop in my own joint pain experience. I suffered some movng joint pain, whatever I used would hurt , hips, shoulder , knees ect. Really frustrating , especially when you are making good progress only to be laid up for a few weeks because you can't hardly walk. Additionally I would occasionally experience the physical symptoms of anxiety or panic while remaining mentally calm - I didn't at the time realise this is also known as a cardiac arrythmia. Anyway long story short is that magnesium glycinate(oxide is worthless) taken before bed completely cured my symptoms.

If you do a little search you will find most americans are deficient of the admitedly meagre RDA and that deficiency is connected to many common health problems. If you guys are taking a pile of supplements already you might as well give it a try its pretty cheap stuff

I don't think I have cardiac arrythmia but I will try the Magnesium glycinate. I had an EKG done twice and both time it came out normal. And my blood pressure tends to fall on the low side of things (100/50). At this point, I just want the weird joint pain to go away. It usually hurts once I do something for a prolonged period like standing or walking. Otherwise it doesn't hurt much but I have to crack it all the time.

[TESTme17]

I have some more hormone results that I recently got done:
FSH : 4.1 (range- 1.4-13.6)
LH : 1.8 (range -1.1-8.8)
Prolactin: 7.1 (range- 2.6-18.1)

Total T- came in at 391 this time. Previous times it came it at 431, and 400 twice.

[aronaronaron]

I had a varicocele and definitely beleive it lowers testosterone which may be to blame for bad joints (i have bad shoulder and knee joints) i have had surgery 3 days ago on it though but i doubt it will make much differnce from what i here.

[STM]

TESTme17, not sure if you're still checking this. I just had a varicocele repaired, and did one T test that came in similar to yours. After realizing I had varicocele took a year to fix it. I drove myself mad reading about how things wouldn't get better, my ball wouldn't return to normal size, leydig cells were shot, etc.

Anyway, I finally decided I didn't care, I have a gf that loves me whether or not I have T problems and the only thing the worry did was make things worse in the libido and fatigue department.

Soon as I quit worrying the libido was back to a respectable level. I'm convinced stress, anxiety, and sleep are adding to your T problem, as evidenced by your LH numbers.

Do your best not to sweat it bud, you have what you have. It helped me when I said that.

[jinxie]

I'm new to this forum but I already like what I see on the boards. A very good group here.

Just to say a bit about me:

Recently turned 21 but I feel like I'm trapped in an 80 yr old body.
I've had vague knee pain since I was 17. X-rays (several )and MRIs(2) didn't find anything over the years. But I have a terrible popping and clicking sound that makes it hard for me to do any type of exercise as even standing for a while hurts. I
've had a scrotal ultrasound done a month ago for my testicular pain and was told I have a cyst (benign) and bilateral varicoceles. Urologist didn't think they were too much of a problem though.

Had several blood tests done.

Total testosterone was checked 3 times and free T done twice. All were done in the morning.

Total T- 430,400 and 404.
Free T- Both were higher than the max side of the range-- something like 2.6 with the max 2.2 (I don't have the paper results for these I just wrote them down)

TSH in July of 2009 was 1.05 (range: 0.4-4.5)
TSH in Jan of 2010 was 0.65 (range: 0.4-4.5)

Doctors still consider it normal though and the only thing that was of concern was vitamin D which was in the toilet but has since been adjusted. Meanwhile, I have terrible fatigue, concentration issues, low libido, and depression--primarily caused by the fact that this joint pain and fatigue is robbing me of my youth and ability to be as athletic as I once was. I'm getting more tests done including a hormone profile. But my therapist suggested an SSRI like a Lexapro or Zoloft. She said this sounds like depression (I've also had gastritis that hasn't gone fully gone away after taking prilosec). The left varicocele does cause pain but can it cause everything else like the joint pain and fatigue? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Look at Ehler-Danlos Syndrome.

[jinxie]

TESTme17, not sure if you're still checking this. I just had a varicocele repaired, and did one T test that came in similar to yours. After realizing I had varicocele took a year to fix it. I drove myself mad reading about how things wouldn't get better, my ball wouldn't return to normal size, leydig cells were shot, etc.

Anyway, I finally decided I didn't care, I have a gf that loves me whether or not I have T problems and the only thing the worry did was make things worse in the libido and fatigue department.

Soon as I quit worrying the libido was back to a respectable level. I'm convinced stress, anxiety, and sleep are adding to your T problem, as evidenced by your LH numbers.

Do your best not to sweat it bud, you have what you have. It helped me when I said that.

Great advice in any event. Cardinal of anti-aging, stress management.

[trixter]

It won't fix your joint pain.

Clearly the voice of experience eh?

@TESTme17:
I've also been through symptoms that you describe. Approx 6 - 7 years ago I was diagnosed with varicoceles on / in the left testicle. My doctor refused to do anything about this on the grounds it could cause fertility problems. 3-4 years ago I started suffering Osteo Arthritis symptoms in both knees. This was then officially diagnosed as OA and I was told I'd have to live with it.

I thought I was going crazy when I would wake in the morning with pain in my testicles that would reach down my legs to my knees which would also be in excruciating agony.

The varicoele problem became so painful at one point that I demanded my doctor do something because I couldn't live with it anymore and was frequently suicidal due to the pain. At this point he got his backside into gear and sent me to see a specialist who then explained they could perform an embolization (I later found out this procedure has been available since 1981 and my doctor had lied). A few months later they performed the operation. The testicular pain eased off within the week but would still come back randomly.

What really surprised me was the knee pain. Within 3-4 weeks this had decreased to almost non-existent. I was still getting the clicking and grinding sensations but within 3 months those were making vast improvements too. 8 months down the line I could not only walk normally but also run, run up stairs, walk up stairs 2 steps at a time, bend my knees, do DIY on the car without suffering and pretty much lead a normal life again including driving a car with a clutch pedal!!! I had suffered non-stop with knee pain for over 2 years and would frequently be in sheer agony and then it just eased off after this simple op that my doctor refused to give me for so many years. I honestly felt that I was the luckiest man alive to be able to use my knees again.

It didn't last long though, 1.5 years later the symptoms are returning again in both the testicles and my knees. It's intermittent but its enough of a warning sign for me to know what is wrong. I've made enquiries with my health provider and they say that the op can fail at any time, the veins can regrow and yes they can operate again repeating the procedure.