CHEMMAN'S LOG

[chemman1123]

I have been going through absolute hell since this past summer.

I began having some ED last year. I was probably partying too hard and way too stressed out at college, but I must admit that since high school, I have not had powerful erections.

I had a blood test of total testsoterone it came in at 590 ng/dL. So I began taking tribestan tribulus last spring, and I definitely felt it. Mood. erections all went up. It felt like how people describe being on steroids.

Then after a few weeks I became very depressed and for the next several months I kept taking more tribulus thinking it would fix things by rasing my testosterone. i had another bloodm draw that showed TT at 345 and E2 at 35. I felt terrible.

This is where **** really hit the fan. I took .5mg arimidex/wk for 3 weeks hoping to bring E2 to 20ish and raise my T. During this period i was also in the gym 5-7 days/wk (overtrai9ning and undereating like crazy....lost 20lbs in 2 months). I came off arimidex after getting intense anxiety and depression and some joint cracking in my heels. This was in 8/09.

Since then my life has been turned upside down. The list of symptoms is at the bottom of the post. I have been feeling a little better lately (can make it to class and study), but I have a long way to go before I am where I want to be.


I am 22 years old, 6'5" and 220 lbs.

I finally have a comprehensive set of labs from 3/16 that I want to share with all of you. Thanks in advance for your opinions.


8AM blood results from quest diagnostics

Homocysteine: 5.9 [<11.4umol/L]

Comprehensive Metabolic Panel:

Glucose: 84 [65-99 mg/dL]
Urea Nitrogen: 21 [7-25 mg/dL]
Creatinine: .78 L [o.8 -1.30 mg/dL]
BUN/creatinine ratio: 27 H (6-22 calc)
sodium:143 (135-146)
potassium: 4.6 (3.5-5.3)
chloride: 106 (98-110)
carbon dioxide: 24 (21-33)
calcium: 9.5 (8.6 - 10.2)
protein (total): 6.8 (6.2 - 8.3)
albumin: 4.5 (3.6 - 5.1)
globulin: 2.3 (2.1-3.7)
albumin/globulin ratio: 2.0 (1.0-2.1)
bilirubin: 0.4 (0.2-1.2)
alkaline phosphatase: 62 [40-115]
AST: 15 [10-40]
ALT: 20 [9-60]

Thyroid Panel
TSH: 1.97 [.4-4.5 mIU/L]
Free t4: 1.3 [0.8 - 1.8]
Free t3: 333 [ 230-420]
T3 total: 101 [76-181]
Reverse T3: 31 [11-32]
TBG: 20.3 [12.7 - 25.1]
Thyroglobulin antibodies: <20
Thyroid peroxidase antibodies: <10

VAP Choloesterol test
Total LDL-C direct: 81 [<130]
Total HDL-C Direct: 50 [>=50]
Total VLDL-C direct: 13 [<30 mg/dL]
Total cholesterol: 144 [<200]
Triglycerides: 54 [<150 mg/dL]
Total non-HDL-C: 93 [<160 mg/dL]
Total APOB100 CALC: 75 [109 mg/dL]

Remnant Lipo [IDL + VLDL3]: 10 [<30 mg/dL]


Absolute monocytes: 383 [200-950]
Absolute eosinophils: 145 [15-500]
Absolute Basophils: 17 [0-200]
neutrophils: 62.1%
lymphocytes: 31.5%
monocytes: 4.5%
eosinophils: 1.7%
basophils: 0.2%


Ferritin: 38 [20-345]
ceruloplasmin: 28 [18-36]
C-reactive protein: 0.12 [<0.80]
Prealbumin: 26 [21-43]

DHEA-S: 259 [110-510]
FSH: 4.1 [1.6-8.0]
LH: 3.0 [1.5-9.3]
progesterone: 1.1 [<1.4}

Cortisol A.M: 21.7 [4.0-22.0]
ACTH: 22

Hormones
Dihydrotestosterone: 27 [25-75 ng/dL]
Testosterone, total: 283 [250-1100 ng/dL]
Free Testosterone; 46.3 [46.0 - 224 pg/mL]
Bioavailable testosterone: 99.3 L [110 - 575]
SHBG: 23 [7-49 nmol/L]
Albumin: 4.7 [ 3.6 -5.1 g/dL]

Aldosterone: 2 [<=28 ng/dL]

CBC
White blood cell count: 8.5 [3.8-10.8 thousand/uL]
Red blood cell count 5.11 [4.20 - 5.80]
Hemoglobin: 14.9 [ 13.2-17.1]
Hematocrit: 44.4 [38.5 - 50%]
MCV: 86.9 [80.0 -100.0]
MCH: 29.3 [27.0 -33.0]
MCHC: 33.7 [32.0 - 36.0]
RDW: 13.3 [11- 15 %]
Platelet count: 260 [14- 400]
Absolute neutrophils: 5279 [1500 -7800]
Absolute lymphocytes: 2678 [850 -3900]

Celiac Disease panel
Tissue transglutaminase antibody IGA: <3 [<5 negative]
Immunoglobulin A: 252 [81 -463]
Gliadin antibody: <3 [<11 negative]
Hemoglobin A1c: 5.3 [% of total Hgb] [ <6 non-diabetic]

Vitamin D, 25-OH, total: 40 [20-100]

Gliadin antibody:4 [<11 negative]

Lyme disease c6 antibody: 0.66 [<=0.90 negative]......warrants further investigation IMO

iodine [random urine]: 198 [34-523]
Lipoprotein: 10 [<75 nmol/L]

Vitamin b12: 266 [200-1100 pg/mL]
Folate, serum: 6.4 [normal .5.4]

IGF-1: 374 [126-382]
Plasma renin activity: 0.81 [0.25 - 5.82]
c-peptide: 1.6 [0.8 -3.1]

Pending tests (quest diagnostics sucks, IMO. It's been two weeks since the blood draw)
Estradiol, ultrasensitive (they are going to perform the wrong test....we specified sensitive 13-54 on the slip)
Estrone
cortisol [free and total]
cortisol binding globulin

Current symptoms
Joint cracking and clicking and popping
Acute swelling and pain in right ankle (to the point of not being able to walk] with no trigger incident
knee pain
sciatica
lower back pain
eye floaters
anxiety {improving IMO, and mainly related to my health]
depression {same as above]
NO libido
Complete ED without cialis
muscle weakness and strength loss
numb sensations [ could be related to all the advil I take to kill the pain]
loss [ and recent return ] of chest hair
cognitive dysfunction [improving]
hypoglycemia [improving]

Current medications and supplements
vitamin D 4,000 iu/ day (after loading 12,00o iu/ day for 5 days in response to above test result)
vitamin b12 2,000 mcg/ day (started this after seeing the above test)
Fortified soy protein (started feeling better after eating this)
15 mg liquid iron/day (started after seeing above ferritin result)

 

[jrvswim]

Wow, I'm really sorry reading through your numbers I can't believe how drastically your testosterone dropped in such a short period of time. I feel like with that quick of a drop something must of physically changed. But not being a doctor I can only speculate.

My advice go without all supplements for a while and take fish oil omega 3's. Your orginal level of 590 is relatively good. What you need to do is try to decrease the amount of test. that binds with proteins, this is turn would give you more free testosterone (what your body feels). According to a URO and internet sources, omega 3s can help.

How are you eating? Perhapes too much protein , in the carb to protein ratio?

 

[chemman1123]

24 hour cortisol from Genova Diagnostics

1 hour after rising (9"40 am): 0.23 [0.27 - 1.18 mcg/dL]
11AM -1PM: 0.07 [0.10 - 0.41]
3PM -5PM: 0.11 [0.05 -0.27]
10 PM -12AM: 0.04 [0.03 -0.14]

Adrenals appear stressed...

 

[LeanGuy]

Root cause of low T and other symptoms might be thyroid... reverse T3 is high. RT3 goes up during periods of stress, and for some... unknown reasons. It can block the action of your active thyroid hormone T3. How's your body temperature?

 

[spinn]

I recently found out I had lyme and had most of the same symptoms. The test from www.igenex.com is about the only one that is really accurate and costs $100 but is well worth it.

If you do have lyme and catch it almost right away, you should be fine. If you have had it for several months or more, you are dead, conventional doctors will not treat it; they will just let you waste away until you end up in a coma.

I am not trying to scare you but this disease is no joke.

It will eventually kill all hormone levels, even if you are on hrt.

Also the lyme antibody test is cd57; not c6. http://heallyme.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/understanding-the-cd-57-test/

 

[chemman1123]

The past 8 months have been pure stress. Another issue is that if I do have a lack of cortisol, which is debatable because my saliva and blood tests are conflicting, is that the thyroid hormones are not making it into my cells. Also, my TSH when I was healthy was 0.6. It's been on the rise ever since.

Body temperature seems OK now. I was cold when visiting colder climates a few months ago.I went to the doctor here at the college health center yesterday to get my ankle checked and it clocked in at about 98 [30 minutes post awakening] .

 

[chemman1123]

Right when all of this started (and coincidentally during the arimidex debacle), I had a nickel-size welt develop on my quad. I thought it was a spider bite but who knows. It would be such a cruel cruel coincidence if I got lyme when I used arimidex and have been thinking this whole time that the adex did me in.

1.5mg of adex spread out over 3 weeks. I know it's a strong drug but this seems to be such a severe and prolonged reaction for such a low dose.

When I read through lyme discussion boards it's scary how similar my symptoms are. Fortunately I have been feeling a little better this past week, so I'm crossing my fingers that I may be pulling out of my rut.

I will be ordering the Igenex test today. Unfortunately, if I do have lyme, I will be about 8 months deep.

 

[spinn]

If you do have it, you need to get a doctor from this group http://www.ilads.org/ conventional doctors will not properly treat it.

8 months is still early, I have had it for over 30 years and am in the process of losing everything, the doctors have all of my money, I hope they enjoyed it.

Good luck Chem

 

[steve12345]

I suggest adding multi vitamin and mineral pills to your diet. They are cheap adn effective. i take two centrum per day . The reason is that although they contain 100 % of what you need you only absorb about 20 to 50 %.



steve

 

[Philec48]

Nutritional problems can elevate Reverse T3, and can also otherwise affect thyroid. You definitely need a good ferritin level for the thyroid to function properly, and yours is low.

Also, low Vitamin D (like yours) can negatively affect testosterone.

Your B12 is also low.

Before looking into testosterone replacement therapy, get a good iron supplement or eat more red meat. Get a good vitamin D3 like Carlson brand and take 4-6 per day. And get a good methylcobalamin form of B12.

After two months retest everything.

 

[chemman1123]

I front loaded 12,000 iu vitamin d for 5 days and have been holding at 6,000 iu/day since then (about 1 wk). I've also been sucking on 1,000 mcg methylcobalamin tablets throughout the day.

I definitely have felt better since then.

My orthopedic prescribed me a medrol dose pack, which I began this morning, for the tendonitis in my ankle and as a test to see if my problems are coming from a lack of cortisol production. So far so good. I definitely feel better. The damn thump in my throat my every time I swallow is almost gone. Joint cracking is less frequent and joint pain is down. Anxiety reduced. Eye floaters almost completely gone.

This is probably going to be a textbook case of adrenal problems.

And if my adrenals are not functioning properly, then I am guaranteed to have thyroid problems (production of hormones and action at receptor site requiring cortisol), which would explain my nutritional problems.

Are the nutritional problems caused by adrenal thyroid issues a result of lack of stomach HCl?

 

[ItsHectic]

I suggest you increase your iron dosage to 100mg per day for 2 months to get your ferritin up which should help you feel better. Make sure it is extended release to keep side effects down, I recommend "ferrograd C" which is also what most doctors prescribe here for low iron and I did not have any side effects from it.

Check this http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/141767-blood-test-results.html#post2247107 to see how much iron I was taking to increase my ferritin.

 

[steve12345]

I repair and work on the hemalology , Chemistry and immunoassy instruments for a large manufacturer. Sometimes it is the equipment, reagents, how the specimine reagents are stored or shipped, temp of the fridge (temp drops due to door left open, light getting at reagents). BAd lot of reagents happens freqently from MANY mnufacturers.

i would suggest a repeat on another instrument on another lab. i say this as your CBC look fine and most of everything except the hormones and some vitamin B12 etc. the hormones may come in a kit so if it is bad the whole hormone test is invalid. Then you look at the results and the placebo effect takes in.
I know this happens all the time in my job. I see some folks refuse to recalibrate the instuments after a repair so the numbers are still (sort of right) but may be running low or high. Not accusing your lab but I have seen this.
i also had a full test on myself recently and all my Liver enzyes showed to be high out of range !!!! i immediately started thinking about all the liquor drinks / steroids that I have taken over the years (hepatitus B infections since i work on these machines )and the damage is now done !!! I can see myslef in a casket. I did a repeat test and i am right in the middle of normal !!! It was not me at all and I wasted a weekend thinking the worst. I even started to look at making my "final arrangements". ha HA

Steve

 

[The Matrix]

I repair and work on the hemalology , Chemistry and immunoassy instruments for a large manufacturer. Sometimes it is the equipment, reagents, how the specimine reagents are stored or shipped, temp of the fridge (temp drops due to door left open, light getting at reagents). BAd lot of reagents happens freqently from MANY mnufacturers.

i would suggest a repeat on another instrument on another lab. i say this as your CBC look fine and most of everything except the hormones and some vitamin B12 etc. the hormones may come in a kit so if it is bad the whole hormone test is invalid. Then you look at the results and the placebo effect takes in.
I know this happens all the time in my job. I see some folks refuse to recalibrate the instuments after a repair so the numbers are still (sort of right) but may be running low or high. Not accusing your lab but I have seen this.
i also had a full test on myself recently and all my Liver enzyes showed to be high out of range !!!! i immediately started thinking about all the liquor drinks / steroids that I have taken over the years (hepatitus B infections since i work on these machines )and the damage is now done !!! I can see myslef in a casket. I did a repeat test and i am right in the middle of normal !!! It was not me at all and I wasted a weekend thinking the worst. I even started to look at making my "final arrangements". ha HA

Steve

From looking at the labs and the direction your physican has you going in I would say hes definitely on the right pathway. If your with a good dr and feeling better then stick with him.

 

[chemman1123]

Day 5 medrol dose pack.

Lump in throat is back. Really really annoying. What could this be? I know it's a hypothyroid symptom. People with lyme also describe the phenomena. And those with systemic joint cracking as well.

Floaters doing better. Walked around in the sun this morning and barely saw them. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Swelling in knees is down. Joint cracking down especially after getting up for the day and moving around.

Mental agility is much higher. I could actually pay attention in class today and have been knocking out my senior thesis that is due in a few weeks.

Ordered liver tabs last night to get my iron (ferritin) up. Also ordered a mineral forumla containing chelated zinc, magnesium, selenium, chromium, and vanadium.

 

[steve12345]

i suggest listening to your Doctor. I was just giving additional advice on the subject of lab tests. i see bad resuts often and it often is not the patient.

steve

 

[JanSz]

I repair and work on the hemalology , Chemistry and immunoassy instruments for a large manufacturer. Sometimes it is the equipment, reagents, how the specimine reagents are stored or shipped, temp of the fridge (temp drops due to door left open, light getting at reagents). BAd lot of reagents happens freqently from MANY mnufacturers.

---
Steve

Hi Steve;

Wonder if you know or could find out about and shed some light on this problem.

It is about E2 testing.

Accurate E2 values, timely retrieved are of paramount value in conducting proper TRT.
All process goes haywire when one is not able to rely on E2 valuse from his test.

At one point, few years back, dr John Crisler declared that the best testing laboratory is Quest Diagnostics and the only test to be used for Estradiol E2 is

Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)

http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/testmenu/jsp/showTestMenu.jsp?fn=30289N.html&labCode=SJC

Many people reported <2 results
Many people reported varying results
I did number of different E2 tests on the same blood sample, the results were newer consistent.
Often one test indicate, say 20 and the other test indicate 40, from same blood.

------------------------------
We figured workaround that works, at least to a point that people agree that their symptoms are similar to what test indicate.

Use at Quest:
Estradiol [4021X](13- 54 pg/mL)

Use at Lab Corp
Estradiol, sensitive 140244
-------------------------------

Recently dr John Crisler declared that he also had a constant problems with Quest and changed his recommendation to LabCorp.

-------------------------------

If you work in that industry it may be easier for you to figure out which end is up and help us with this problem.

If you have something useful to say, it may help if you start fresh thread.
Individual posts are hard to find latter on.
I would hate to loose important information, that will have a lasting value.
Also that information would be out of topic on this thread.
--------------------------------

 

[steve12345]

I'll ask next week. i would say that 25 % of all my service calls are assay issues and not the instrument but it could be. These Test kits must be kept refrigerated and out of light all the time. Handling and proper use of the kits is so important. Some times the reagents on the tests are bad etc or the tests that are shipped out of the factory all have the wrong cal factors. When that happens I get a call from many customers at the same time for the same exact problem and it is flagged at the company as a posible reagent test issure. i had a call recently that the manufacturer changed the cal factors for the assay and the problem went away.

i will ask about the Estrodial test next week. I will be riding with a senoir med tech next week for a new installation.

Steve

 

[chemman1123]

In general, how accurate are vitamin b12 labs and how indicative are blood b12 levels of an actual problem?

Reason I ask this is that I have begun to experience adverse effects from my supplements, and it's a short list: vitamin D emulsion 6,000 iu, vitmain b12 (2,000 mcg methylcobalamin or hydroxocobalamin alternating eod).

These symptoms are different from my usual hypogonadal/low estradiol/low cortisol symptoms. Feels like a panic attack and a strange sensation in my head.

I'm assuming it's the b12. Anybody here have experience with this?

Also, I just started liver tabs soon to bump up my iron levels. They also have a lot of vitamin b12 as well....75 mcg/tab. Symptoms started before starting liver tabs.

 

[chemman1123]

Any opinions on a clomid restart for my case?

 

[steve12345]

You can get Vitamin B12 comples or Vitamin B12 itself injectable very cheaply if you do a search on the internet. If you are thrifty you can get the Cattle injectable like I did for under $10 delivered for 250 ml of 1000 mg per mil of vitamin B12 from many cattle or vet supply stores. you may want to take less as you are not a 400 pound Cow.
(MODS) I am not posting sources ... just giving ideas.

Steve

 

[Philec48]

B-12 injectable is not needed if within range. Just get a good high-potency methylcobalamin supplement.

 

[spinn]

I really would get tested for lyme. If you have it, nothing will matter. Trust me, Ive been there and will now spend the next 5 years trying to get off testosterone,