question before bloodwork, possible hypogonadism

[Bleezer]

Basically for the last couple months i have felt very blah. I did a havoc cycle back in october and finished the pct in late novemeber, dont know if that has anything to do with it or not. My nipples have gotten puffy and were pretty sore for a while but that actually seems to be going away now, they dont hurt as much and arent as puffy as before. But I do still have a lot of symptoms of elevated prolactin or hypogonadism. I am tired a lot of the time, i have a hard time focusing, my workouts suck, i feel lazy and tired during them, and my sex drive is just awful. I can "perform" but i cant get hard without physical stimulation, no random erections or anything. I ordered some formestane to rub on my nips kuz in the forums ive read that it really helps with the prolactin, and i also ordered some sustain alpha to help with test. I go to the doctor later this week but my questions is, should i stop using both of these products so that if i really do have low test, it will show up in the bloodwork? Im afraid that maybe the sustain alpha will raise my test levels and the doc will think im fine when i rly do have a problem. Ive only been using both products for two days now so it wouldnt be a big deal if i stop. Thanks for reading. O by the way this all stared in late january.

 

[Bleezer]

anyone? The only other supps im taking are creatine mono and whey. I go to the doctor in 4 days. Should i stop using these supps, and if i do, is 4 days enough time for them to be out of ym system?

 

[gamer2be08]

Dont get a blood test while your estro is being suppressed. Get it done when you are normalized..

 

[Bleezer]

ok so is 4 days long enough to wait before i get the test?

 

[Bleezer]

anyone? Its monday and i go thursday, is this long enough?

 

[Bleezer]

k, went to the doctor, got my blodwork done on friday. Its monday now. If i dont hear from them today ill call tommorow and see if they got my results in.

 

[Bleezer]

O ya, by the way i started supplementing formestane, sustain alpha and l-dopa to try and maybe tackle this thing on my own. Dont worry i waited till after the blood work to start using them. My dosing is as fllows

Formestane- 2 squirts int he morning and 2 squirts at night (one on each nipple)
Sustain alpha LV- 5ml (one "syringe" full) in the morning and 5ml at night
L-dopa- 1 pill (333mg) in the morning and one at night.

Any thoughts? concerns? sugestions?

 

[Bleezer]

got the bloodwork in. Everything looks to be ok except maybe my total test.

Test Total: 379
Test Free: 112.2
Prolactin: 8.6
TSH: 1.11

Is 379 low? any input would be greatly appreciated. O by the way i ditched the l-dopa kuz it was makin me feel really weird. Started dosing P-5-P at 300mg a day and i must say it seems to be working rather well. Ive read on a couple of websites that if your total test is high 30's to low 400's, sometimes all it takes is some natural supplements to raise test levels. Most sites are suggesting horny goat weed. Will this stuff rly do anything or am i just wasting my time?

 

[arowji]

how is the formestane doing for you? im thinking of trying it out myself. I have test in the low 300's and high e so I think it would help. and where did you get it? i know NP has a 5 gm bulk that you can use with penetrate. it comes to the same amount as other brand, but you get 2 more grams.

 

[Bleezer]

the formestane rly does seem to help. Espeically in reducing the the puffiness of my nipples. I think the p-5-p is really helping too. I got it from np as well but i got the ointment one.

 

[arowji]

nice. i just ordered some formestane that i will make into a transdermal. I have high expectations for this stuff.
will you be getting more bloodwork while on the formestane and p5p?

 

[gamer2be08]

got the bloodwork in. Everything looks to be ok except maybe my total test.

Test Total: 379
Test Free: 112.2
Prolactin: 8.6
TSH: 1.11

Is 379 low? any input would be greatly appreciated. O by the way i ditched the l-dopa kuz it was makin me feel really weird. Started dosing P-5-P at 300mg a day and i must say it seems to be working rather well. Ive read on a couple of websites that if your total test is high 30's to low 400's, sometimes all it takes is some natural supplements to raise test levels. Most sites are suggesting horny goat weed. Will this stuff rly do anything or am i just wasting my time?

That is pretty low, about on par for a 75 YO...

 

[cumkwakka]

got the bloodwork in. Everything looks to be ok except maybe my total test.

Test Total: 379
Test Free: 112.2
Prolactin: 8.6
TSH: 1.11

Is 379 low? any input would be greatly appreciated. O by the way i ditched the l-dopa kuz it was makin me feel really weird. Started dosing P-5-P at 300mg a day and i must say it seems to be working rather well. Ive read on a couple of websites that if your total test is high 30's to low 400's, sometimes all it takes is some natural supplements to raise test levels. Most sites are suggesting horny goat weed. Will this stuff rly do anything or am i just wasting my time?

total test is lowish

i went from 380 to 500+ with the only addition being 10.000 ius of vitamin d (bio d mulsion forte by biotics research)

estradiol went up like crazy too though

buy a thermometer at the local grocery store and when you wake up measure your temperature and then every three hours, measure for couple days.. if it's lower than the standard 36.6-36.8 degrees celcius on average per day you probably got some thyroid issues going on

wasting your time with horny goat weed

also invest in a 4x saliva cortisol test (150 dollars i believe) to measure your adrenal output.. if low this can also contribute to tiredness

please get your diet in check.. 6 meals with high quality protein every meal and good healthy fats like coconut oil, olive oil

 

[Bleezer]

my thyroid was tested and its fine, i know that the total test was the only thing i was worried about. I will try this bio d mulsion stuff see if it works. Basically ive cut out any supplement that has any sort of proprietary blend and i do feel better. Ive basically gone all natural. All i take now is my multi, P-5-P, crea mono, BCAA's, and whey. I stopped the sustain alpha kuz it wasnt doing anything, scrapped the horney goat weed after day 1 and stopped the formestane as well. My nipples are deffinitly much better, still a little hard behind the right one but they are not puffy at all. My refractory period still seems longer than it used to be but my prolactin is only 8 and as we all know prolactin is the main cause of the longer refractory period. I have a follow up appointment on the 10th of may and im going to ask the doc if i can get my estrogen checked. Its harder for me to keep an erection than it used to be. I can get one, and orgasm and ejaculate, but it seems to go away easier, so it may be estrogen. I will say though i deffinitly feel better after cuttin out all those sups. O also i think nitric oxide cold have been my problem too. I went through like 4 tubs of it without cycling off and ive heard that can affect hormone output as well. Havent used any in about a month now. Let me know what you guys think.

total test is lowish

i went from 380 to 500+ with the only addition being 10.000 ius of vitamin d (bio d mulsion forte by biotics research)

estradiol went up like crazy too though

buy a thermometer at the local grocery store and when you wake up measure your temperature and then every three hours, measure for couple days.. if it's lower than the standard 36.6-36.8 degrees celcius on average per day you probably got some thyroid issues going on

wasting your time with horny goat weed

also invest in a 4x saliva cortisol test (150 dollars i believe) to measure your adrenal output.. if low this can also contribute to tiredness

please get your diet in check.. 6 meals with high quality protein every meal and good healthy fats like coconut oil, olive oil

 

[spinn]

Be careful with thyroid. Drs will tell you its fine if you are anywhere in range. The problem is, the range was calculated using everyone, ages 5 to 95. If you are towards the low end your dr will say you are fine, even though that is normal if you are 93. In general, you should be in the upper 1/3rd of the range.

 

[Bleezer]

im kinda hoping my estrogen is high, maybe that will explain all this and the doc will put me on arimidex

 

[Bleezer]

u guys do realize i posted my TSH levels and they 1.11, that was right in the middle. 0.4 to 3.2 was the range.

Be careful with thyroid. Drs will tell you its fine if you are anywhere in range. The problem is, the range was calculated using everyone, ages 5 to 95. If you are towards the low end your dr will say you are fine, even though that is normal if you are 93. In general, you should be in the upper 1/3rd of the range.

 

[spinn]

u guys do realize i posted my TSH levels and they 1.11, that was right in the middle. 0.4 to 3.2 was the range.

TSH does not mean much. If your pituitary is signaling your thyroid to produce hormone and it does not, TSH is meaningless.

 

[Bleezer]

so what other thyroid levels should i tell the do i want taken? I know im gonna ask him to take my estrogen levels, maybe test levels again too kuz like i said, i am feeling better, less tired, libido increase. I think i just needed to stop all the crap i was on

TSH does not mean much. If your pituitary is signaling your thyroid to produce hormone and it does not, TSH is meaningless.

 

[spinn]

so what other thyroid levels should i tell the do i want taken? I know im gonna ask him to take my estrogen levels, maybe test levels again too kuz like i said, i am feeling better, less tired, libido increase. I think i just needed to stop all the crap i was on

T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4

 

[Bleezer]

alright, well i def wanna get my estro taken too. I just have a feeling thats the culprit

T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4

 

[Bleezer]

i was thinkin of runnin testopro to see if i can kick start my test levels. would this be a waste of time?

 

[spinn]

i was thinkin of runnin testopro to see if i can kick start my test levels. would this be a waste of time?

I wouldnt.....have you noticed all the other threads where people shut down shortly after trying some of these miracle test boosters, just my 2 cents.

 

[Bleezer]

you are right, thanks for your help, i must admit i am feeling better day after day. it is wishful thinking to suggesy that perhaps my body is working this out on its own?

 

[Spinn99]

you are right, thanks for your help, i must admit i am feeling better day after day. it is wishful thinking to suggesy that perhaps my body is working this out on its own?

No, you would be amazed at your body's ability to cure itself. Psychology plays a huge part. Try to visualize yourself as healthy and happy and this will all be over soon.

 

[arowji]

TSH does not mean much. If your pituitary is signaling your thyroid to produce hormone and it does not, TSH is meaningless.

If there is no thyroid hormone being produced from TSH signal, then wouldn't hypothalamus raise TRH from the lack of negative feedback, causing pituitary TSH to be high? I always thought TSH was a good indicator of thyroid needs, except of course in secondary hypo where problem is in either hypothalamus or pituitary.

Dude, getting estro checked would no doubt shed some light into the suppressed test. Also get the LH checked out. Im almost in your exact situation with low normal test. I had a doc check estrogens and e2 was normal, but total estrogen level was at 200! Normal range is under 130. Ive been to 6 docs and my total test has been around 300 on 3 occasions. Still none will treat me as im 20.
Thats why im trying the formestane. I definitely felt a dif on the first 2 days, but now I barely notice a difference. Has anyone experienced this? Its about day 5 with 60mg TD per day.

 

[spinn]

I dont even know what TRH is so you lost me there. Also have you checked thyroid and adrenals, they play a role too? Yes estrogen is important and needs evaluation but this is complicated. My story is I had lyme disease most of my life, which suppressed most of my hormone levels. I was then put on HRT and now I am trying to find a way to get off of it since my lyme is now cured.

And TSH for anyone who knows what they are doing is barely acknowledged. Its old school at best.

 

[Bleezer]

Ok so just to recap, im askin for my t3, t4, total t3, total t4, e2, total estrogen, and LH? There is an article i read online that said attempting to detox the blood and kidneys can reverse hormonal imbalances. They sell an oral spray at vitamin shoppe that is a blood and kidney detox. Should i give it a try?

 

[Bleezer]

scratch the detox idea, doesn't have much merrit. Although i have been up all night reading and what do you guys think about zinc? Lots of articles showing that it is a good AI. I was thinking of dosing it at 100-150mg a day with copper 2mg twice a day (4mg). Ive read lots of threads where people are claiming that it helpeda lot with libido, morning wood, and sex drive in general. Let me know what you guys think. Like i said, I want to keep it as natural as possible, so zinc obviously wouldnt break that rule at all.

 

[Bleezer]

any input at all guys?

 

[arowji]

Ive heard that zinc helps if you are deficient. Its definitely worth a try.
Heres a promising study on humans. Realize most studies assess the effects of zinc deficiency.
"
Experimental zinc deficiency in man. Effect on testicular function.

Abbasi AA, Prasad AS, Rabbani P, DuMouchelle E.

Dietary zinc intake was restricted (2.7 to 5.0 mg daily) for 24 to 40 weeks in five male volunteers. Their mean age was 57 years. Oligospermia (total sperm count less than 40 million per ejaculate) was induced in four out of five subjects. A decrease in the sperm count occurred during zinc restricion and the early phase of zinc repletion before body stores of zinc were restored to normal. The duration of oligospermia in the four subjects ranged from 6 to 14 months. Oligospermia was reversed after zinc supplementation in physiologic amounts. The baseline sperm concentration and total sperm count per ejaculate in all five subjects dropped significantly (p < 0.05) after zinc restriction and returned to normal 6 to 12 months after zinc supplementation. The decrease in sperm count coincided with decline in Leydig cell function and was reversed after zinc supplementation in low doses. Our study has demonstrated that dietary restriction of zinc can affect testicular function adversely. This effect of zinc deficiency, however, is a reversible process and can be corrected by proper supplementation with zinc."

PubMedID is 6772723.

 

[Bleezer]

should I worry about my taking it when my multi already has 30mg of it? I take animal paks, i dont think it should matter at all should it?

 

[arowji]

Nah man your good. I think you could supplement 25-50 mg more as long as you take in some copper. Even supplementing 15 mg of zinc can increase your copper needs. This review may answer some of your questions.

Zinc toxicity

GJ Fosmire
Department of Nutrition, College of Health and Human Development, Penn State University, University Park 16802.

Although consequences of zinc deficiency have been recognized for many years, it is only recently that attention has been directed to the potential consequences of excessive zinc intake. This is a review of the literature on manifestations of toxicity at several levels of zinc intake. Zinc is considered to be relatively nontoxic, particularly if taken orally. However, manifestations of overt toxicity symptoms (nausea, vomiting, epigastric pain, lethargy, and fatigue) will occur with extremely high zinc intakes. At low intakes, but at amounts well in excess of the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) (100-300 mg Zn/d vs an RDA of 15 mg Zn/d), evidence of induced copper deficiency with attendant symptoms of anemia and neutropenia, as well as impaired immune function and adverse effects on the ratio of low-density- lipoprotein to high-density-lipoprotein (LDL/HDL) cholesterol have been reported. Even lower levels of zinc supplementation, closer in amount to the RDA, have been suggested to interfere with the utilization of copper and iron and to adversely affect HDL cholesterol concentrations. Individuals using zinc supplements should be aware of the possible complications attendant to their use.

You can get the full text at American Journal of Clinical nutrition. It is free.

 

[Bleezer]

well everything would be amazing right now if i wasnt sick! I think i have the flu,possibly strep throat, fellin better though. Couldnt sleep last night but i slept for most of today and i feel a lot better now. But as far as my libido, its pretty much back to normal. I started getting it back the day before i started taking the zinc, the zinc has def made a difference though. Nuts are bigger, ejaculatory volume has been increased significantly. This stuff rly works i think.

 

[Bleezer]

well, my doctor sucks...I told him i wanted my t3 t4 levels taken and he said my TSh was fine so there was no need. Then when i told him i wanted my estrogen levels taken he told me that i was "really reaching now". Like its impossible for me to have high estro or something. He said hes never seen high estro in a 23 year old male before. He referred me to an endo. Im actually kind of happy though because ive heard rly great things about this guy. Not just one of those diabetes endos from what im hearing at least. Anyway, like i said i am feeling better though. Its weird, i was pretty much back to myself, then i got the flu and it kinda went away again. Now im recovering from the flu and the libido is starting to come back. Is this normal? Oh, also still dosing 100mg of zinc a day with 4mg of cooper, taken several hours apart though kuz i hear zinc will disrupt the absorption of copper. Seems to be helping.

 

[spinn]

Unfortunately, that is what most of us have been through. You want to trust your dr but then he gives you bad info. You have to be very decisive and firm and aware your dr may not know what to do. It doesnt make him a bad guy, just wrong. Yes, being sick will suppress your adrenals so you will have a few other effects.

 

[Bleezer]

ya im in spain right now visiting my gf, and needless to say, im pretty sure theres nothing wrong with me xD