Looking for insight with HC, HCG, & Test.

[punxweb]

I am 29 yrs old, 225 lbs, and hit the gym 5 times a week. I was diagnosed with low test about 1.5 years ago. The doc has had me try quite a few things and some have worked and some haven't. It has been a roller coaster ride to say the least. I am currently using 150mg/ml test, 1 ml per day, rubbed on my stomach. I also taske 20 mg HC everyday, 10mg am, 5mg at noon, and 5mg at 3pm. The doc has me on 15mcg of T3 that doesn't seem to be doing much. He recently gave me a script for HCG and after pricing it locally, I purchased some Hucog from ADC and have been running 400IU E3D. I recntly had labs done and I was pretty dissapointed. I feel pretty damn good but just a occasional ED. These labs were done by labcorp. I will post my last 3 recent labs.
2/15/10
TSH 5.34 ref .45-4.5 high
T4 Free 1.21 ref .82-1.77
T4 Total 5.3 ref 4.5-12.0
T3 Free 3.1 ref 2.0-4.4
T3 Total 106 ref 71-180
RT3 257 ref 90-350
SHBG 15.8 ref 14.5-48.4
E2 sensitive 11 ref 3-70
Vit D 25 Hydroxy 63.2 ref 32-100
DHEA S 277.3 ref 160-449
LH .4 ref 1.7-8.6 low
FSH .3 ref 1.5-12.4 low
DHT 28 ref 30-85
Test Serum 252 ref 280-800
Test Free & Weakly Bound 68.8 ref 40-250

This was after starting HCG for 6 weeks. This is the lowest test value I have ever had. Vitamin D is up from last test which is good. Supplimenting 18000 IU daily. TSH is up from previous test. DHT dropped drastically.

This was my baseline test before starting HCG. The only thing that changed was I added 1 5% androgel packet to bring me up to 200mg per day. I was also supplimenting with 7-keto DHEA 50 mg per day. These labs are not as detailed as the most recent test.
1/18/10
TSH 3.110
T4 5.7
T4 free 1.02
Free T3 3.2
RT3 221
Test Serum 502
LH .7 low
FSH .5 low
DHT 96
DHEA S 325.2
E2 sensitive 16
SHBG 21.1
Prolactin 12.1 ref 4.0-15.2
Progesterone .7 ref .2-1.4
Albumin 4.2 ref 3.5-5.5

These labs were from 11/25/09. The only difference was I was using tribulus 3g per day. I am convinced that trib raises LH levels. I have multiple lab test that have shown this. This was before the doc gave me HC.

TSH 6.64 high
T4 5.8
Free T3 3.6
RT3 244
Test Serum 308
LH 1.7
FSH .6 low
DHT 42
DHEA S 215 low
E2 sensitive 13
Prolactin 8.4
Progesterone .7
SHBG 15

At the suggestion of some of the guys on here I also had some random test done on 1/4/10.
Vit D 25 Hydroxy 22.4 ref 32-100 low
Zinc Serum 109 ref 70-150
Ferritin 211 ref 22-322
Selenium 160 ref 79-326

I am kind of at a loss as to what to do about the HCG. If anyone has some suggestions as to how to tweak my dose, I would appreciate the input. I would like to get on injectable test, I am going to ask the doctor about this soon. I need to get my RT3 down. I am thinking I will get some from ADC and start taking a larger dose. Any suggestions on dosage? I also had a pituitary MRI done and it came back clean. If anyone has some suggestions on any of this it would be appreciated.

 

[JanSz]

I am 29 yrs old, 225 lbs, and hit the gym 5 times a week. I was diagnosed with low test about 1.5 years ago. The doc has had me try quite a few things and some have worked and some haven't. It has been a roller coaster ride to say the least. I am currently using 150mg/ml test, 1 ml per day, rubbed on my stomach. I also taske 20 mg HC everyday, 10mg am, 5mg at noon, and 5mg at 3pm. The doc has me on 15mcg of T3 that doesn't seem to be doing much. He recently gave me a script for HCG and after pricing it locally, I purchased some Hucog from ADC and have been running 400IU E3D. I recntly had labs done and I was pretty dissapointed. I feel pretty damn good but just a occasional ED. These labs were done by labcorp. I will post my last 3 recent labs.
2/15/10
TSH 5.34 ref .45-4.5 high
T4 Free 1.21 ref .82-1.77
T4 Total 5.3 ref 4.5-12.0
T3 Free 3.1 ref 2.0-4.4
T3 Total 106 ref 71-180
RT3 257 ref 90-350
SHBG 15.8 ref 14.5-48.4
E2 sensitive 11 ref 3-70
Vit D 25 Hydroxy 63.2 ref 32-100
DHEA S 277.3 ref 160-449
LH .4 ref 1.7-8.6 low
FSH .3 ref 1.5-12.4 low
DHT 28 ref 30-85
Test Serum 252 ref 280-800
Test Free & Weakly Bound 68.8 ref 40-250

This was after starting HCG for 6 weeks. This is the lowest test value I have ever had. Vitamin D is up from last test which is good. Supplimenting 18000 IU daily. TSH is up from previous test. DHT dropped drastically.

This was my baseline test before starting HCG. The only thing that changed was I added 1 5% androgel packet to bring me up to 200mg per day. I was also supplimenting with 7-keto DHEA 50 mg per day. These labs are not as detailed as the most recent test.
1/18/10
TSH 3.110
T4 5.7
T4 free 1.02
Free T3 3.2
RT3 221
Test Serum 502
LH .7 low
FSH .5 low
DHT 96
DHEA S 325.2
E2 sensitive 16
SHBG 21.1
Prolactin 12.1 ref 4.0-15.2
Progesterone .7 ref .2-1.4
Albumin 4.2 ref 3.5-5.5

These labs were from 11/25/09. The only difference was I was using tribulus 3g per day. I am convinced that trib raises LH levels. I have multiple lab test that have shown this. This was before the doc gave me HC.

TSH 6.64 high
T4 5.8
Free T3 3.6
RT3 244
Test Serum 308
LH 1.7
FSH .6 low
DHT 42
DHEA S 215 low
E2 sensitive 13
Prolactin 8.4
Progesterone .7
SHBG 15

At the suggestion of some of the guys on here I also had some random test done on 1/4/10.
Vit D 25 Hydroxy 22.4 ref 32-100 low
Zinc Serum 109 ref 70-150
Ferritin 211 ref 22-322
Selenium 160 ref 79-326

I am kind of at a loss as to what to do about the HCG. If anyone has some suggestions as to how to tweak my dose, I would appreciate the input. I would like to get on injectable test, I am going to ask the doctor about this soon. I need to get my RT3 down. I am thinking I will get some from ADC and start taking a larger dose. Any suggestions on dosage? I also had a pituitary MRI done and it came back clean. If anyone has some suggestions on any of this it would be appreciated.

punxweb

Supplementing 18000 IU daily results in
Vit D 25 Hydroxy 63.2 ref 32-100

You have a problem, usually 10000iu should get you into good range.

Assume that you have bad vit D.

Use 5 drops/day=10000iu
Biotic Research Bio-D-Mulsion Forte, 1drop=2000iu Vit D

==================
150mg/day transdermall-T results in
DHT 28 ref 30-85

you have a problem, usually transdermals raise DHT over top range
==================

Question:
are you able to arrange for more testing

or

you want me to go wild guessing?

==============================

You have thyroid problem, you need to use T3-100mcg/day or possibly more, to get rid of your high rT3.
To be allowed to do that you must have good adrenals or good adrenal support.

We do not know status of your adrenals.
Taking 20mg/day-HC goes only so far.
(btw) you are allowed to use up to 40mg/day-HC every day

You should do
Spectracell-5000 (all available micronutrients and lipids)
and
eat all that report will tell you.

That would provide nutritional support for adrenals and thyroid.

Then HC-40mg/day(divided) and you are mostly there

But it would be much better if we could do also adrenal testing

===============================
SHBG=15.8

use EOD (EveryOtherDay) both shots same day next day free

HCG-shot=300iu Edited 2/24/10 use HCG=400iu
T-shot=25iu=50mg=175mg/week

If you end up with low DHT, put some Androgel on your balls.
================================================

...

weight 225#

what is your height and waist

....

 

[punxweb]

Janz, thanks for the input. I was low on the vit D before supplimenting. I wanted to get my levels up fast so I did 18,000 IU daily. Would you adjust that? The transdermal test i have been using is not absorbed well. I have been as high as 300mg per day and only got my test value to 550, I have no idea what my DHT was while on that dose. I do have insurance that allows unlimited labcorp testing for no fee. My old roomate is a doc and he writes my scripts for blood draws for whatever I need. I have tested adrenals by diagnostecs. 4 part saliva showed low morning cortisol and low dhea. The dhea has returned but I have not had a recent 4 part saliva test in the past 6 months. I can up my dose of HC if needed. I do not have a script for test inj yet. I will ask on next visit. As far as changing HCG dose, would you suggest doing 300IU EOD while doing the transdermals everyday? Weight is 225, height 5'8", wast 35in. I carry all my extra weight in my stomach for the most part.

 

[JanSz]

Janz, thanks for the input. I was low on the vit D before supplimenting. I wanted to get my levels up fast so I did 18,000 IU daily. Would you adjust that? The transdermal test i have been using is not absorbed well. I have been as high as 300mg per day and only got my test value to 550, I have no idea what my DHT was while on that dose. I do have insurance that allows unlimited labcorp testing for no fee. My old roomate is a doc and he writes my scripts for blood draws for whatever I need. I have tested adrenals by diagnostecs. 4 part saliva showed low morning cortisol and low dhea. The dhea has returned but I have not had a recent 4 part saliva test in the past 6 months. I can up my dose of HC if needed. I do not have a script for test inj yet. I will ask on next visit. As far as changing HCG dose, would you suggest doing 300IU EOD while doing the transdermals everyday? Weight is 225, height 5'8", wast 35in. I carry all my extra weight in my stomach for the most part.

Cut down or skip on carbohydrates, that will help you loose waist.

Stop transdermal-T
Switch to injectable-T as described above.
Use 10000iu of vit-D that I posted
Up to HC-40mg/day
Slowly up T3-100mg/day

but make sure to get Spectracell-5000 (and eat what it tells to eat)

do this list at LabCorp:
===========================================

1 --------- Comprehensive Metabolic Panel w/EGFR
2 --------- CBC w/ diff/PLT
3 --------- VAP TM Cholesterol Test
4 --------- Selenium, Whole Blood
5 --------- Copper, serum
6 --------- Zinc
7 --------- Magnesium, Serum
8 --------- C-Reactive Protein (CRP), Highly Sensitive, CSF
9 --------- Fibrinogen
10 --------- Homocysteine, cardio
11 --------- Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
12 --------- Iron and Iron Binding Capacity
13 --------- Iron, Total
14 --------- Ferritin
15 --------- Transferrin
16 --------- Folate, RBC & Hematocrit
17 --------- Hemoglobin A1c
18 --------- Hemoglobin, Plasma
19 --------- VITAMIN A, E, B3, B12
20 --------- Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy
21 --------- T3, Total
22 --------- T4, Total
23 --------- T3, Free
24 --------- T4,Free
25 --------- T3, Reverse
26 --------- Ultrasensitive TSH
27 --------- Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies
28 --------- Insulin, serum
29 --------- IGF Binding protein-3
30 --------- IGF-1
31 --------- DHEA Sulfate
32 --------- Aldosterone
33 --------- Renin Activity, Plasma
34 --------- ACTH, Plasma
35 --------- Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin)
36 --------- 8AM/4PM/10PM---Cortisol, Free and Total
37 --------- Prolactin
38 --------- Progesterone
39 --------- Pregnenolone
40 --------- Androstenedione
41 --------- Estradiol, sensitive 140244
42 --------- Estrone, Serum
43 --------- Total Testosterone
44 --------- SHBG
45 --------- Albumin
46 --------- Dihydrotestosterone
47 --------- 3a-Androstanediol Glucuronide
48 --------- Ceruloplasmin
49 --------- Coenzyme Q10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
244.9 ----- 257.2 ----- 780.79
250.00 ----- 272.4 ----- 788.41
250.01 ----- 601.9 ----- 253.3
255.4 ----- 780.4 ----- 255.8
783.9 -----
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


..

 

[punxweb]

Janz, I am have been on the anabolic diet for 6 months now. Basically under 30 carbs per day and one carb up day every 2 weeks. Lost ten lbs initially but recently put it back on without changing my diet. I am eating about 2500 cal per day. What was your suggestion for the HCG dose? 300 IU EOD? Damn thats alot of test. I have probably half of the labcorp list knocked out. I will look into getting the rest. I will post what I have tomorrow. How much does the spectra cell test cost and where can I find more info on it?

 

[pmgamer18]

How did you mix the 2000 IU's of HCG from ADC I hope you only put in the vial of HCG 2mls of some bacteriostatic water. Using the water the comes with the vial is meant to be used the same time you mix it will not keep in the fridge. You need to buy some bacteriostatic water to mix it so it will keep in the Fridge 30 days. And you end up with 1000 IU's of HCG / ml so to do a shot 300 IU's would be .3mls. or .3 cc.
=====================================
How to mix HCG.
BTW...the water you need to reconstitute HCG is bacteriostatic water.

Calculating HCG:

There isn't a specific ratio of cc/ml to IU. It depends on how you mix it. It's quite simple. If you dillute 5,000 IUs HCG with 5ml (cc) solvent, the end result is 1,000 IUs per ml (cc). Divide the same 5,000 IUs with 10 ml (cc) and the end result is 500 IUs per ml (cc). Therefore, a large part depends on the concentration of HCG per ampoule or vial.

Mixing HCG:
(Items needed: bacwater h20 and some 5ml emty vials-get****).

1) Open hcg/amp with powder
2) Use a syringe to pull out 1cc of BacWater and put in amp with HCG
3) It will instantly dissolve
4) Then Use an empty 5ml vial (sterile and sealed) put 4ml of Bacwater in the vial
5) Take syringe and ad the mixed HCG solution to the 5ml vial
6) Shake it and you have 5000IU's of HCG
7) Than draw 1cc and inject
8) put the rest in the refrigerator

•The reason your discarding the amp of solvent cause its made for 1 times use and you wouldn’t be able to refrigerate it and use it a week later again. That’s why you need Bac H2o.
•The most common side affect associated with HCG is gynecomastia. The concurrent intake of Nolvadex with HCG prevents gynecomastia, prevents/minimizes leydig cell desensitization and contiues the stimulation of pituitary LH once HCG has been discontinued.
•HCG will last approximately 30 days if mixed with Bac h2o instead of the solvent it comes with.
•You can keep the mixed hcg in vial or pins In the fridge till use

 

[JanSz]

Janz, I am have been on the anabolic diet for 6 months now. Basically under 30 carbs per day and one carb up day every 2 weeks. Lost ten lbs initially but recently put it back on without changing my diet. I am eating about 2500 cal per day. What was your suggestion for the HCG dose? 300 IU EOD? Damn thats alot of test. I have probably half of the labcorp list knocked out. I will look into getting the rest. I will post what I have tomorrow. How much does the spectra cell test cost and where can I find more info on it?

You can get Spectracel-5000 two ways.

Ordered by doctor, paid by insurance

Ordered by you, you pay the full price.

SpectraCell 5000 test (FIA™ Comprehensive Profile 5000).

http://www.spectracell.com/media/standard-doss-sample.pdf

SpectraCell Laboratories, Inc. 7051 Portwest Drive, Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77024-8026 USA
CLID #45D0710715
800/227-5227
713/621-3101
713/621-3234 (fax)
[email protected] (e-mail)
www.spectracell.com (website)


..
===========================================
(T + HCG) doses in previous post are preliminary (best) estimates.

After blood test in 2-3 months (while on steady schedule all the time),
the dose may need adjustment.

...............

 

[punxweb]

I am sure I mixed it correctly. I threw away the water that came with it. I mixed 5000IU with 5 ml of bs water. I was doing .4 ml every show for 400IU E3D. Thanks for looking out but I was sure to do my research on reconstituting HCG before I did anything with it.

 

[JanSz]

I am sure I mixed it correctly. I threw away the water that came with it. I mixed 5000IU with 5 ml of bs water. I was doing .4 ml every show for 400IU E3D. Thanks for looking out but I was sure to do my research on reconstituting HCG before I did anything with it.

I edited above post to HCG-shot=400iu

It is only a starting point.
You follow it until next blood test, then adjust per test results.

Actully 400iu may be a better choice, your previous results were lowish on E2.

...........

...

 

[punxweb]

Other random test.
Lipid panel - 1/4/10
Cholesterol 207 ref 100-199 high
Trigglycerides 83 ref 0-149
HDL Chol. 80 ref >39
VLDL Chol. 17 ref 5-40
LDL 110 ref 0-99 high

8-31/09
Thyroglobulin Quan. 41.1 ref 05-55.0
AFP serum tumor marker 1 ref 0-8.3
Thyroid Peroxidase TPO Ab <5 ref 0-34

CBC w Diff Plat 4/30/08
WBC 7.8 ref 4.0-10.5
RBC 5.07 ref 4.1-5.6
Hemoglogin 16 ref 12.5-17
Hematocrit 44.8 ref 36-50
MCV 89 ref 80-98
MCH 31.5 ref 27-34
MCHC 35.6 ref 32-36
RDW 12.6 ref 11.7-15
Platelets 213 ref 140-415
Neutrophils 54 ref 40-74
Lymphs 34 ref 14-46
Monocytes 8 ref 4-13
Eos 3 ref 0-7
Basos 1 ref 0-3
Neutrophils (ABS) 4.2 ref 1.8-7.8
Lymphs (ABS) 2.7 ref .7-4.5
Monocytes (ABS) .6 ref .1 1.0
Eos (ABS) .2 ref 0-.4
Baso (ABS) .1 ref 0-.2

Comp Metabolic Panel

Glucose serum 76 ref 65-99
BUN 23 ref 5-26
Creatinine serum 1.2 ref .5-1.5
Glom filt rate >60 ref 60-137
BUN / Creatinine ratio 19 ref 8-27
Sodium 140 ref 135-145
potassium 3.8 ref 3.5-5.2
chloride 103 ref 97-108
carbon dioxide 19 ref 20-32 LOW
Calcium 9.1 ref 8.5-10.6
protein total 7.4 ref 6-8.5
albumin 4.4 ref 4.4 ref 3.5-5.5
globulin total 3.0 ref 1.5-4.5
A/G ratio 1.5 ref 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin .6 ref .1-1.2
Alkaline Phosphate S 59 ref 25-150
AST 25 ref 0-40
ALT 30 0-55

 

[JanSz]

Other random test.
Lipid panel - 1/4/10
Cholesterol 207 ref 100-199 high
Trigglycerides 83 ref 0-149
HDL Chol. 80 ref >39
VLDL Chol. 17 ref 5-40
LDL 110 ref 0-99 high

8-31/09
Thyroglobulin Quan. 41.1 ref 05-55.0
AFP serum tumor marker 1 ref 0-8.3
Thyroid Peroxidase TPO Ab <5 ref 0-34

CBC w Diff Plat 4/30/08
WBC 7.8 ref 4.0-10.5
RBC 5.07 ref 4.1-5.6
Hemoglogin 16 ref 12.5-17
Hematocrit 44.8 ref 36-50
MCV 89 ref 80-98
MCH 31.5 ref 27-34
MCHC 35.6 ref 32-36
RDW 12.6 ref 11.7-15
Platelets 213 ref 140-415
Neutrophils 54 ref 40-74
Lymphs 34 ref 14-46
Monocytes 8 ref 4-13
Eos 3 ref 0-7
Basos 1 ref 0-3
Neutrophils (ABS) 4.2 ref 1.8-7.8
Lymphs (ABS) 2.7 ref .7-4.5
Monocytes (ABS) .6 ref .1 1.0
Eos (ABS) .2 ref 0-.4
Baso (ABS) .1 ref 0-.2

Comp Metabolic Panel

Glucose serum 76 ref 65-99
BUN 23 ref 5-26
Creatinine serum 1.2 ref .5-1.5
Glom filt rate >60 ref 60-137
BUN / Creatinine ratio 19 ref 8-27
Sodium 140 ref 135-145
potassium 3.8 ref 3.5-5.2
chloride 103 ref 97-108
carbon dioxide 19 ref 20-32 LOW
Calcium 9.1 ref 8.5-10.6
protein total 7.4 ref 6-8.5
albumin 4.4 ref 4.4 ref 3.5-5.5
globulin total 3.0 ref 1.5-4.5
A/G ratio 1.5 ref 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin .6 ref .1-1.2
Alkaline Phosphate S 59 ref 25-150
AST 25 ref 0-40
ALT 30 0-55

Sodium 140 ref 135-145---------143
potassium 3.8 ref 3.5-5.2--------4
chloride 103 ref 97-108
carbon dioxide 19 ref 20-32 LOW


Take closer look at your adrenals.


/////////

 

[punxweb]

What about those 4 things you listed makes you suspect that I have adrenal issues? The 4 part saliva test proved this but just wondering why you looked at these 4 things? I know you cannot do a another 4 part saliva test while using HC. How long do you have to be off of HC before you can test?

 

[JanSz]

What about those 4 things you listed makes you suspect that I have adrenal issues? The 4 part saliva test proved this but just wondering why you looked at these 4 things? I know you cannot do a another 4 part saliva test while using HC. How long do you have to be off of HC before you can test?

When checking adrenals this panel is useful

Aldosterone
potassium (you are little low here)
renin
sodium (you are little low here)

That set is also useful check for high blood pressure.

You are allowed to do saliva testing while using Cortef=HC
Some use that to double check proper dose.

Some process Cortef=HC very fast and eventually have to switch to Medrol.

Cortef=HC are bioidentical hormones.
Medrol is not bioidentical.

I am not clear if one would see correct cortisol levels while using Medrol.

It is desirable to do
24hr-urine test (at RheinLabs)
That test give lots of information
but
in this context you would check if your 24hr urine cortisol does not exceed upper range. If it would, then you would have to reduce Cortef=HC dose.

..

 

[punxweb]

Thanks for the info Janz. I looked up those 4 things that you stated. I noticed that some of them say that if levels are off, it could indicate respitory problems. I do have asthma. I wonder if that could skew my results. I also want to do a sleep study. My girlfriend said that I snore terribly and sometimes stop breathing when I do this. i wonder if Labcorp offers a 24hr urine cortisol test. i will have to check on that.

 

[JanSz]

Thanks for the info Janz. I looked up those 4 things that you stated. I noticed that some of them say that if levels are off, it could indicate respitory problems. I do have asthma. I wonder if that could skew my results. I also want to do a sleep study. My girlfriend said that I snore terribly and sometimes stop breathing when I do this. i wonder if Labcorp offers a 24hr urine cortisol test. i will have to check on that.

Ask doc to arrange sleep study.

You may end up needing CPAP machine.

Do not buy the machine before consulting with users.
On dr John's board there was nice discussion on variety of CPAP machines.

============
https://www.labcorp.com/wps/portal/!ut/p/c1/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os_hACzO_QCM_IwMLXyM3AyNjMycDU2dXQwN3M6B8JG55AwMCusNB9uHXD5I3wAEcDfT9PPJzU_Uj9aPM40NdTYINPS2NDfxd3Q0MjMw9fTwtLfwNDYwN9UP0C3IjDLJMIhUB94XRqA!!/dl2/d1/L0lDU0lKSmdvS1VRIS9JSFNBQ0lpTXlDb3FiRURBSUEhIS9ZQTQ1NDUwLTVGMHN0eWp3LzdfVUU0UzFJOTMwT0VHMDAyN0lMSTk4TzEwMzEvV1FfX185OC9zcGZfQWN0aW9uTmFtZS9zcGZfQWN0aW9uTGlzdGVuZXI!/?testId=408377&spf_strutsAction=!2fshowDetail.do

Cortisol, Urinary Free

Test Number: 004432 CPT Code: 82530


/////////

 

[punxweb]

Thanks for looking up that test Janz. I would like to do all my testing through Labcorp as it is at no cost to me. I will talk to the doctor about setting up and sleep study and review the CPAP machines on Dr. Johns board.