T-cream > is it better to apply twice per day?

[Gutterpump]

Is it better to apply test cream multiple times per day since it absorbs much faster into the blood than androgel does since the cream uses oils as a base?

Read this recently but wanted to ask what people think. These creams are new to me...

I am using a 20gram cream (20% or 200mg topical per day), plus hCG + adex

[Pirate!]

I'm on same dose and regimen. 100 mg twice daily has worked very well for me. Doc prescribed it this way.

[nattydisaster]

Twice a day is better

[David Dunn]

Remember to consider that the epidermis acts as a reservoir. 200mg once every 24hrs as opposed to 100mg every 12hrs likely has no more fluctuations of active blood levels than you would experience from endogenous production - if even that much.

I personally would opt for the convenience of once daily and do so without any issue whatsoever. Multiple doses would be more inconvenient than any minuscule fluctuation in blood levels. I mean, I'm at work longer than 12 hours. JMHO.

[punxweb]

I was on 150mg/ml cream applied twice a day. This was the only way I was able to get my test level up to 600. If I applied two ml's in the morning, I was not able to get my levels over 400. It does work but it does not follow the natural circadian rhythm of the males testosterone level. This did not much matter to me but to some it may.

[David Dunn]

I understand. I think for some there is more to it than just testosterone issues. Issues with application and absoption.

300mg/day at 10% absorption equates to 30mg a day or 210mg a week. That is an awful lot to achieve a level of 600.

200mg of Test E (~175mg less the ester) injection will have most at or about a level of1300.

[punxweb]

I had a hard time absorbing the cream. That is why I was on such a high dose. I have read here that people with thyroid issue have a hard time getting good absorption rates with creams and gels. I am one of those people.

[David Dunn]

I believe you are correct.

[punxweb]

Gutter, you state that you had 200mg/ml cream? Is that stuff really pasty? I heard the absorption rate of anything over 100mg/ml was all over the place. I did well with the 150mg/ml but the stuff was pretty much pasty and did not absorb well.

[Gutterpump]

I had a hard time absorbing the cream. That is why I was on such a high dose. I have read here that people with thyroid issue have a hard time getting good absorption rates with creams and gels. I am one of those people.

I'm applying the cream to the inside of my forearms - and a small amount to the scrotum to boost DHT (since you won't produce much DHT through skin in your forearms). Should be no problems with absorption of creams doing it this way.

From what I know, the cream has a pretty good absorption rate, even better than gels and that's why ironically they say gels are better (since it does not spike T too much in the morning and drop off too fast during the day). Creams pretty much pull T into your blood immediately..cream is oil based and therefore passes your fat layer quickly and easily... Gels will absorb T into your skin's reservoir (instead of passing through it), and then it absorbs slowly during the day.

I am trying it 2x per day now, and just bring the pump to work and apply on my forearms at my desk after lunch.

When I get my next bloodwork, should I take blood in the morning before I apply? Or should I be pulling blood 2-3 hours after I apply the cream?

[Gutterpump]

Gutter, you state that you had 200mg/ml cream? Is that stuff really pasty? I heard the absorption rate of anything over 100mg/ml was all over the place. I did well with the 150mg/ml but the stuff was pretty much pasty and did not absorb well.

It looks and feels just like normal thick skin cream. It disappears pretty quickly after I rub it in for a minute, no residue and doesn't seem pasty. I rub both my forearms together so that I don't waste any on my fingers.

[Gutterpump]

Remember to consider that the epidermis acts as a reservoir.

This is true for gels, but I read that creams will pass directly through since they are oil based. This causes a big spike in T when applied compared to gels. So far I like the cream though compared to shots and need less adex.

[David Dunn]

Are you using a compounded T cream?

[David Dunn]

I'm applying the cream to the inside of my forearms - and a small amount to the scrotum to boost DHT (since you won't produce much DHT through skin in your forearms). Should be no problems with absorption of creams doing it this way.

From what I know, the cream has a pretty good absorption rate, even better than gels and that's why ironically they say gels are better (since it does not spike T too much in the morning and drop off too fast during the day). Creams pretty much pull T into your blood immediately..cream is oil based and therefore passes your fat layer quickly and easily... Gels will absorb T into your skin's reservoir (instead of passing through it), and then it absorbs slowly during the day.

I am trying it 2x per day now, and just bring the pump to work and apply on my forearms at my desk after lunch.

When I get my next bloodwork, should I take blood in the morning before I apply? Or should I be pulling blood 2-3 hours after I apply the cream?

Interesting. I was always instructed to use my upper torso/abdomen area. I use pecs up to the clavical and out over the anterior and lateral delt.

BTW - I believe it is a PhloGel based product if it is compounded.

[punxweb]

Since I have switched to the androgel, I feel more of a spike with the androgel than I did the cream. An hour after I apply the androgel, just like morning wood. Never happened on the cream. I think, for me, it seemed like the cream was a steady release through the day.

I was also told to never apply the cream above the belly button. The specialist told me that if you apply it above the belly button the lymphatic system that clears the chemicals can concentrate excess hormones and this can cause breast cancer in males. I had better absorption when I applied it to my arms though.

I would always get tested right before I would apply the cream, so I could get a baseline. I believe both give you somewhat of a spike shortly after applied. I would love to do a hourly blood draw to see what the values look like through the day. While on the cream at 2 x 150mg/ml, I was tested and had levels at 600 before application. Wonder what it was after that?

[David Dunn]

GENERIC NAME: TESTOSTERONE GEL - TOPICAL (tess-TOSS-ter-own)
BRAND NAME(S): Androgel, Testim
Medication Uses | How To Use | Side Effects | Precautions | Drug Interactions | Overdose | Notes | Missed Dose | Storage

USES: Testosterone gel is used to treat men with conditions of low testosterone hormone levels (e.g., hypogonadism). This drug should not be used in women.

HOW TO USE: This medicine comes with a patient information leaflet. Read it and follow the directions carefully. Ask your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist any questions that you may have about this medicine. Apply the medication as directed to the clean, dry skin of the shoulders or upper arms once daily in the morning; or use as directed by your doctor. Certain brands of this medication may also be applied to the lower stomach (abdomen). Check your patient information leaflet or ask your pharmacist if your brand may be applied to the lower stomach (abdomen). Avoid applying gel to skin with open sores or to broken, irritated skin. Do not apply this medication to the genitals (penis or scrotum). Wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water after applying this medication to reduce the possibility of spreading the medicine from your hands to other people. This medication should be dry on the skin before getting dressed. Wait 5 to 6 hours after applying the gel before you shower or swim. This medication is flammable. Avoid fire, flame, or smoking until the gel has dried.

[David Dunn]

http://www.androgel.com/medication_guide.html#five

Apply AndroGel only to areas that will be covered by a short sleeve T-shirt, as shown in the shaded areas in the figure below. These areas are your shoulders and upper arms, or stomach area, or shoulders, upper arm and stomach area.

[Gutterpump]

I am using a white compounded oil-based cream. It looks and feels like a thick skin moisturizer.

[Gutterpump]

Here's a post on absorption of different gels/creams

Alcohol-based gels are more useful for hormone replacement since they allow the hormone to be absorbed into the skin fat and to be slowly released into the blood stream.

Oil-based transdermal gels or creams - such as the PLO gels - are good for rapidly introducing substances into the system. They aren't as useful for hormone replacement therapy because they cause the hormone to bypass the skin fat and allow the hormone to directly go into the blood stream. This causes a large peak and a rapid fall in blood levels.

http://www.definitivemind.com/forums...t=Gels+Thyroid

[Gutterpump]

Here are some posts on test-cream + DHT / scrotum

I know transdermal T, especially applied to the scrotum increases DHT.

Some talk about raising DHT (only for people with low DHT) via application of t-cream / androgel to scrotum in this thread:

Androgel VS others testosterone cream

Read a lot from other senior members about applying t-gel/cream to scrotum for raising DHT higher than other application sites.

Personally I have had problems raising DHT even on higher levels of test + hcg, this is why I switched to cream. I apply about 1/3mg of cream every morning to the ol sack. I wouldn't suggest it for regular people on androgel or cream though, it's really supposed to shoot up DHT this way.