Increasing Libido with Low Dopmine After Testosterone Levels Fixed

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    Increasing Libido with Low Dopmine After Testosterone Levels Fixed


    Longish post concerning problems with low libido (most likely due to low dopamine levels) even after testosterone is fixed.

    Quick history on me. I'm taking medication for hypothyroidism and low testosterone levels. My thyroid numbers have been good for a couple of years now. After a year or so of trying Androgel, then HCG alone, then testosterone cypionate alone, then testosterone cyptionate + HCG, I think at least my testosterone and estrogen numbers are balanced. Yet another blood test in less than a week will confirm whether this is the case.

    One thing that hasn't really changed is seemingly low or mediocre libido, sex drive, etc. It's better than it was when my testosterone levels were below range, but probably still low for a healthy, fit 40 year old, and I've had associated ED problems off and on for a couple of years. These issues haven't been great for relationships. I've tried Viagra and similar drugs, but they only affect the vascular system to increase blood flow to the penis, and then seemingly only if testosterone and estrogen levels are okay. They don't do anything to increase libido, which is centered in the brain and nervous system. Consequently, results were not always great with the blue pill and equivalents.

    About a year or so ago I had a blood test that measured various catecholamines:

    norepenephrine: 345 pg/mL [range 0-399]
    epinephrine: 44 pg/mL [range 0-99]
    dopamine: <10 pg/mL [range 0-142]
    catecholamine: <399 pg/mL [range 0-642]

    Clearly dopamine is quite low. My doc had me try cabergoline for awhile, but I didn't see much (if any) effect, so we stopped that to focus on straightening out testosterone levels. My understanding is that low dopamine levels adversely affect sex drive.

    I recently became curious about whether Melanotan II or Bremelanotide (PT-141) might be of benefit, so I ordered some Melanotan II and started injecting at 0.5 mg/day at bedtime (I'm 6'2" and weight about 190lbs). I experienced greatly enhanced sex drive within a few hours, in addition to much firmer and consistent morning erections. I was actually concerned about the duration of the erection when I woke up at 2:30am the first morning, so I stuck a flexible cold pack in my shorts to ensure blood had a chance to circulate.

    The increase in sex drive was sufficiently distracting to lower my Melanotan II dosage level to 0.35 mg/day. Around the same time I had to start taking Prednisone (steroid based anti-inflamatory) for a minor nerve impingement problem, and Prednisone's myriad side effects seemed to counteract the Melanotan II benefits. However, after tapering off of the Prednisone over the past few days, my sex drive seems to be back in high gear - - - sufficiently so that I might lower my Melanotan II dosage level again.

    I seem to have a very dramatic response to the Melanotan II at a very low dosage level, at least compared to other people. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with my low dopamine levels? I have a technical background, but it's not in chemistry or biology, so I don't really know what mechanisms are at work here.

    Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

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    I have no idea, but the flexible cold pack idea was freaking awesome. Were you concerened with getting a DVT from a crazy noctural erection? I get morning wood but I'd put the gfriend on crutches with a hard on like that. How the hell did you sleep? Like I said, awesome. You're a regular morning wood Macgyver. Briefly, what exactly is Melanotan II?
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve999 View Post
    Longish post concerning problems with low libido (most likely due to low dopamine levels) even after testosterone is fixed.

    Quick history on me. I'm taking medication for hypothyroidism and low testosterone levels. My thyroid numbers have been good for a couple of years now. After a year or so of trying Androgel, then HCG alone, then testosterone cypionate alone, then testosterone cyptionate + HCG, I think at least my testosterone and estrogen numbers are balanced. Yet another blood test in less than a week will confirm whether this is the case.

    One thing that hasn't really changed is seemingly low or mediocre libido, sex drive, etc. It's better than it was when my testosterone levels were below range, but probably still low for a healthy, fit 40 year old, and I've had associated ED problems off and on for a couple of years. These issues haven't been great for relationships. I've tried Viagra and similar drugs, but they only affect the vascular system to increase blood flow to the penis, and then seemingly only if testosterone and estrogen levels are okay. They don't do anything to increase libido, which is centered in the brain and nervous system. Consequently, results were not always great with the blue pill and equivalents.

    About a year or so ago I had a blood test that measured various catecholamines:

    norepenephrine: 345 pg/mL [range 0-399]
    epinephrine: 44 pg/mL [range 0-99]
    dopamine: <10 pg/mL [range 0-142]
    catecholamine: <399 pg/mL [range 0-642]

    Clearly dopamine is quite low. My doc had me try cabergoline for awhile, but I didn't see much (if any) effect, so we stopped that to focus on straightening out testosterone levels. My understanding is that low dopamine levels adversely affect sex drive.

    I recently became curious about whether Melanotan II or Bremelanotide (PT-141) might be of benefit, so I ordered some Melanotan II and started injecting at 0.5 mg/day at bedtime (I'm 6'2" and weight about 190lbs). I experienced greatly enhanced sex drive within a few hours, in addition to much firmer and consistent morning erections. I was actually concerned about the duration of the erection when I woke up at 2:30am the first morning, so I stuck a flexible cold pack in my shorts to ensure blood had a chance to circulate.

    The increase in sex drive was sufficiently distracting to lower my Melanotan II dosage level to 0.35 mg/day. Around the same time I had to start taking Prednisone (steroid based anti-inflamatory) for a minor nerve impingement problem, and Prednisone's myriad side effects seemed to counteract the Melanotan II benefits. However, after tapering off of the Prednisone over the past few days, my sex drive seems to be back in high gear - - - sufficiently so that I might lower my Melanotan II dosage level again.

    I seem to have a very dramatic response to the Melanotan II at a very low dosage level, at least compared to other people. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with my low dopamine levels? I have a technical background, but it's not in chemistry or biology, so I don't really know what mechanisms are at work here.

    Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
    I find this topic interesting. I've recently begun to investigate neurotransmitters. Testosterone and E2 are pretty solid right now, but libido still not where I want it to be. I've done an analysis on thyroid and adrenals. And it appears thyroid is OK, but I'm suffering from high cortisol in late evening and night. So this seems to be part of the problem.

    Your say your thyroid is looking good, have you completed a 4 x/day saliva cortisol test? Could be helpful. Hormonal balance is key. Hormonal balance affects neurotransmitters such as dopamine.

    Selegiline has been used to increase dopamine. I believe L-dopa or mucuna puriens has also shown some efficacy in raising dopamine.

    I'm sure you're familiar with the school of thought of some that believe neurotransmitter/catacholamine levels can't be tested. I'm not knowledgeable enough on this subject matter to discuss. But if labwork correlates with your symptoms, I guess they can be useful.


    It's awesome that the Melanotan is working for you. I might give it a try myself
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    I have no idea, but the flexible cold pack idea was freaking awesome. Were you concerened with getting a DVT from a crazy noctural erection? I get morning wood but I'd put the gfriend on crutches with a hard on like that. How the hell did you sleep? Like I said, awesome. You're a regular morning wood Macgyver. Briefly, what exactly is Melanotan II?
    I would recommend a Google search and doing your due diligence before experimenting. Melanotan II seems to be readily available from a variety of sources within the U.S. Be very careful with the initial doses.
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    If you're only looking for the libido boost, there is another peptide you can get which only uses a fragment from melanotan II. The name slips my mind now.

    If you want to boost dopamine production, try supplementing with sam-e. It will help your body to produce more by giving up the raw materials for it. It's possible that cabergoline didn't have much effect if your body has a hard time producing it. Seems as though your fairly high norepinephrine levels can be having an adverse effect on the situation as well.

    Sam-e, P5P, l-dopa, green tea extract...all of these can be used to increase dopamine without the need for drugs. Which brings me to my question, but don't take offence to it, have you ever abused any drugs in the past for any significant amount of time? Just wondering what the possible causes for low DA levels could be with people who have everything else balanced.
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    Sam-e, P5P, l-dopa, green tea extract...all of these can be used to increase dopamine without the need for drugs. Which brings me to my question, but don't take offence to it, have you ever abused any drugs in the past for any significant amount of time? Just wondering what the possible causes for low DA levels could be with people who have everything else balanced.
    No offense taken on the drug question. Believe it or not, I've never consumed any controlled substances illegally. Not even pot. Plenty of opportunities to try stuff, especially on various international trips, but I was always pretty happy with alcohol and caffeine.

    No clue as to causes for low dopamine levels. I know that's a symptom of Parkinsons, but my doc hasn't mentioned that as a possibility. Perhaps others will chime in with comments.
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    http://melanotan.org/

    What are the drugs Melanotan and Melanotan II?

    Based upon a quote of the Arizona Cancer Center found at sunless.com (on June 14th, 1999):

    Melanotan and Melanotan II are both synthetic versions of melanocyte stimulating hormone that were created, synthesized and developed at The University of Arizona and the Arizona Cancer Center. Melanotan is a linear, full length peptide (containing all 13 amino acids). Melanotan II is a shortened, circular version of the same peptide. Both Melanotan and Melanotan II have sunless tanning capabilities but because Melanotan II had libido enhancement and spontaneous erections as side effects, it is now being developed as a sexual and erectile dysfunction drug.

    To be particularly clear regarding Melanotan (due to previous incorrect news reports) it should be noted that it does not cause sexual arousal nor have erectile effects. These aspects are only found in the drugs Melanotan II and bremelanotide.
    Who created them?

    =======================
    Where can I find more information about Melanotan and Melanotan II?

    General Information

    Looking for the company that is developing Melanotan?

    Try Clinuvel the company in Australia that is developing it.


    Clinuvel Pharmaceuticals Limited is a sub-licencee of Melanotan from: Competitive Technologies
    (Who originally licensed it from MelanoTan Corporation.)

    Looking for the company that was developing a derivative of Melanotan II for erectile
    dysfunction (ED) and female sexual dysfunction (FSD)?

    Try http://www.palatin.com/ the company in New Jersey, USA that is now developing it for hemorrhagic shock.
    Unfortunately for those looking on their site for the latest information concerning Melanotan II will find it mentioned only in the listing of publications regarding bremelanotide. This has greatly limited the ease with which interested parties can directly locate them via web searches relative to the term Melanotan II. Due to changes they've made to the Melanotan II peptide, they use the much less obvious name "bremelanotide". When surfing their site look for bremelanotide or pt-141 .

    Palatin Technologies originally was a sub-licencee of Melanotan II from: Competitive Technologies. This original sub-license is no longer valid.
    ============================
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    yes, that's the one > bremelanotide or pt-141

    Has the effect of increasing libido without the effect on melanin
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    yes, that's the one > bremelanotide or pt-141

    Has the effect of increasing libido without the effect on melanin
    Various on-line sources indicate that PT-141 has similar effects on melanin, albeit to a lesser degree than Melanotan II. Or alternatively, vendors are substituting Melanotan II for PT-141. I'm somewhat fair skinned, and I do a lot of outdoor activities, so having a darker complexion is somewhat beneficial in terms of avoiding sunburn.

    I've seen recommendations to increase daily dosage to 1 mg/day of Melanotan II in order to achieve good melanin effects. However, at less than a quarter of that dose, the sex drive effects are very distracting for me. My body chemistry must be more sensitive to the effects for some reason.
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    I have some PT-141 mixed into a nasal spray. So far it doesn't seem too effective via the nasal route. But I don't feel safe injecting myself with any substance of unknown origin.
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    The following site is devoted to melentonin II and pt-141.

    pt-141 can cause hypertension so beware.

    melanotan.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve999 View Post
    I would recommend a Google search and doing your due diligence before experimenting. Melanotan II seems to be readily available from a variety of sources within the U.S. Be very careful with the initial doses.
    If I did decide on trying that stuff I'd definetly look into it. Luckily, lowered libido and ED have never been bad enough to warrant the prescription route, but I believe the majority of males my age and older will eventually run into the problem. On the same token, the girlfriend is currently pregnant and BLOWING UP ( I love her to death but 50 lbs in 5 months is a bit extreme) and my "libido" if you will has declined slightly (wandering eye has increased inversely) and I definetly know how much of a strain that can be on a relationship. Even with my great imagination. I feel for you man. Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve999 View Post

    Clearly dopamine is quite low. My doc had me try cabergoline for awhile, but I didn't see much (if any) effect, so we stopped that to focus on straightening out testosterone levels. My understanding is that low dopamine levels adversely affect sex drive.
    How long were you on Cabergoline and at what dose?
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve999 View Post
    Longish post concerning problems with low libido (most likely due to low dopamine levels) even after testosterone is fixed.

    Quick history on me. I'm taking medication for hypothyroidism and low testosterone levels. My thyroid numbers have been good for a couple of years now. After a year or so of trying Androgel, then HCG alone, then testosterone cypionate alone, then testosterone cyptionate + HCG, I think at least my testosterone and estrogen numbers are balanced. Yet another blood test in less than a week will confirm whether this is the case.

    One thing that hasn't really changed is seemingly low or mediocre libido, sex drive, etc. It's better than it was when my testosterone levels were below range, but probably still low for a healthy, fit 40 year old, and I've had associated ED problems off and on for a couple of years. These issues haven't been great for relationships. I've tried Viagra and similar drugs, but they only affect the vascular system to increase blood flow to the penis, and then seemingly only if testosterone and estrogen levels are okay. They don't do anything to increase libido, which is centered in the brain and nervous system. Consequently, results were not always great with the blue pill and equivalents.

    About a year or so ago I had a blood test that measured various catecholamines:

    norepenephrine: 345 pg/mL [range 0-399]
    epinephrine: 44 pg/mL [range 0-99]
    dopamine: <10 pg/mL [range 0-142]
    catecholamine: <399 pg/mL [range 0-642]

    Clearly dopamine is quite low. My doc had me try cabergoline for awhile, but I didn't see much (if any) effect, so we stopped that to focus on straightening out testosterone levels. My understanding is that low dopamine levels adversely affect sex drive.

    I recently became curious about whether Melanotan II or Bremelanotide (PT-141) might be of benefit, so I ordered some Melanotan II and started injecting at 0.5 mg/day at bedtime (I'm 6'2" and weight about 190lbs). I experienced greatly enhanced sex drive within a few hours, in addition to much firmer and consistent morning erections. I was actually concerned about the duration of the erection when I woke up at 2:30am the first morning, so I stuck a flexible cold pack in my shorts to ensure blood had a chance to circulate.

    The increase in sex drive was sufficiently distracting to lower my Melanotan II dosage level to 0.35 mg/day. Around the same time I had to start taking Prednisone (steroid based anti-inflamatory) for a minor nerve impingement problem, and Prednisone's myriad side effects seemed to counteract the Melanotan II benefits. However, after tapering off of the Prednisone over the past few days, my sex drive seems to be back in high gear - - - sufficiently so that I might lower my Melanotan II dosage level again.

    I seem to have a very dramatic response to the Melanotan II at a very low dosage level, at least compared to other people. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with my low dopamine levels? I have a technical background, but it's not in chemistry or biology, so I don't really know what mechanisms are at work here.

    Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
    Simple put if T and E is inject and still feeling like crap then look towards the adrenals, immune system/GI , neurotransmitters and thyroid as well as enviromental issues or genetic mutation which I am finding now affecting levels. It appears your dopamine is be drained by NE. One needs to keep the dopamine gas tank full by modulating NE. Your looking at your gas pedal, you need to look at breaking systems first before screwing with the gas system. I do neurotransmitter testing..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    steve999: Your situation sounds very similar to my own. I'm 41, and taking HCG + DAA + anastrozole (as well as fish oil and zinc). Testosterone and estrogens test out fine, muscle mass is fine. But libido continues to be low. I have not tested dopamine, but I suspect that this is a key piece of the puzzle for me. Did you ever figure out a solution for yourself?
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    Anyone ever add macuna (l-dopa) into their supp diet? It has always worked wonders for me, and Endosurge basically kicked my average libido into overdrive. Been taking it for about a year now and it never ceases to amaze me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj
    Anyone ever add macuna (l-dopa) into their supp diet? It has always worked wonders for me, and Endosurge basically kicked my average libido into overdrive. Been taking it for about a year now and it never ceases to amaze me.
    I.work.on.balancing the.whole.neurological system works much better for the person for.longer haul in lieu of addressing all.other issues.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Man, we all know that you do. Lol. I was just throwing it out there.
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    steve999 - you posted up your ranges.. do you have a range for DHT as well as DHEAS?

    I take occasional sam-e, daily methyl folate, and daily P5P, which all help neurotransmitter production. DHT and DHEA are big factors as well when it comes to libido though.

    I also take hydrocortisone for my adrenals. This has helped lower norepinephrine. I used to have high NE and afternoon anxiety before I started taking HC.
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