Low Testosterone and T3

[charliebizz]

I am 26 years old and recently found out that I have low testosterone and low T3 total. About a year ago I started a very low calorie and fat diet, only taking in about 1600 calories and under 20 grams of fat a day. I went from 180 lbs to 145 lbs in six months. I was lifting weights and doing cardio 5 to 6 times a week as well as playing hockey 1 to 2 times per week. I have been battling fatigue for 7 years ever since I began taking Paxil for a panic disorder. I ballooned up to 240 lbs after being on Paxil for 6 months and after a 1 1/2- 2 years I got off of it. I went back down to 175 lbs and stayed there until I started my extreme dieting. Two to three months into my extreme dieting I began to experience cold intolerance, low libido, bouts with fatigue, and depression which was also worsened by job related stress.I also started checking my morning body temp.On average it was 95.5 sometimes going as low as 93.9.i started eating around 2500 cals around 60-70g of fat a day and my temp is up to 96.5-96.9 give or take. I finally got my doc to look more into my thyroid and test level and here is my latest blood results



tsh .78------------>0.40-4.50miu/l
t4 free1.1--------->0.8-1.8ng/dl
t3,total 66-------->97-219 ng/dl
thyroid peroxidase ab <10-------->35 iu/ml
thyroglobulin ab<20--------->20iu ml

testosterone183------>241-827 ng/dl

after these came back he sent me to an endo doc and he is sending me for a pituitary mri and a whole **** load of more blood work but the first thing out of his mouth was putting me on androgel before making any descisions i will post the rest of my blood work here when i get it back but that wont be for a couple weeks just wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts on what this could be is is some more blood work from that day.

non fasting glucose 66------->65-139mg/dl
sodium139------------------->135-146mmol/l
potassium4.2---------------->3.5-5.3mmol/l
chloride101------------------>98-110mmol/l
carbon dioxide27------------->21-33mmol/l

UREA NITROGEN 32----------->7-25mg/dl

creatinine 0.91--------------->0.50-1.30mg/dl

BUN/CREATININE RATIO 35---->6-22
calcium 9.7----------------->8.6-10.2
protein total 7.9---------->6.2-8.3g/dl

ALBUMIN 5.4---------------->3.6-5.1g/dl

globulin,calclated 2.5--------->2.1-3.7g/dl

A/G RATIO 2.2---------------->1.0-2.1

bilirubin,total 0.7 ------------->0.2-1.2mg/dl
alkaline phosphatase 53------->40-115 u/l
ast 33------------------------>10-40 u/l
alt 32-------------------------->9-60u/l
egfr non african>60------------>=60 ml/min/1.73
uric acid 5.1------------------->4.0-8.0mg/dl
folate serum 18.7-------------->5.4ng/ml
iron,total 88------------------->45-175 mcg/dl
tibc 433----------------------->250-425mcg/dl
transferrin saturation 26--------->20-50%
ferritin 169--------------------->20-345ng/m

my cbc is also fine except for slightly low
rbc 4.06---------->4.20-5.80
hemoglobin 12.7----->13.2-17.1
hematocrit 35.6------>38.5-50%
also i have never used anabolics or any other suppliments and i truly belive ive had som borderline thyroid issues for some time but the docs only ever tested my tsh..like i said before the stress and the extream diet i never had libido issue so im not really sure why all this started any insight would be greatly appreciated

 

[EasyEJL]

it was the bad diet. They call them "essential fatty acids" because they are essentail to life. There are essential amino acids, and essential fatty acids, there are NO essential carbs. I'm going to throw a wild stab in the dark out there and guess your total cholesterol is really low too, under 120, maybe under 100. Its not listed in your tests there, but should have been tested too.

How long has it been since you've been getting reasonable fats? I'm not sure i'd go on androgel. It will only further suppress any natural production, so its a lifelong commitment.

 

[PhysiqueFreak]

2 more

 

[charliebizz]

it was the bad diet. They call them "essential fatty acids" because they are essentail to life. There are essential amino acids, and essential fatty acids, there are NO essential carbs. I'm going to throw a wild stab in the dark out there and guess your total cholesterol is really low too, under 120, maybe under 100. Its not listed in your tests there, but should have been tested too.

How long has it been since you've been getting reasonable fats? I'm not sure i'd go on androgel. It will only further suppress any natural production, so its a lifelong commitment.

you are correct and i was so proud that my cholesterol was so low it was 120-125 not 100%. When i was on the low fat kick due to bad info.i only been eating like 60-70g a day for id say 2months the most.and the last thing i wanna do is go on any test replacments i would love to fix this naturally

 

[EasyEJL]

Ok, so try this for a while. raise your intake of GOOD saturated fats, which basically means coconut oil. Organic butter is ok as well, but coconut oil is way better. as nasty as it may sound at first, try taking 2-3 tbsp in the evening before bed. you have to warm it slightly for it to be liquid, you can mix it with hot cocoa if you like. I dont mind it straight. The reasoning for that? the hormone cascade...

 

[charliebizz]

2 more

??????????

 

[JanSz]

I am 26 years old and recently found out that I have low testosterone and low T3 total. About a year ago I started a very low calorie and fat diet, only taking in about 1600 calories and under 20 grams of fat a day. I went from 180 lbs to 145 lbs in six months. I was lifting weights and doing cardio 5 to 6 times a week as well as playing hockey 1 to 2 times per week. I have been battling fatigue for 7 years ever since I began taking Paxil for a panic disorder. I ballooned up to 240 lbs after being on Paxil for 6 months and after a 1 1/2- 2 years I got off of it. I went back down to 175 lbs and stayed there until I started my extreme dieting. Two to three months into my extreme dieting I began to experience cold intolerance, low libido, bouts with fatigue, and depression which was also worsened by job related stress.I also started checking my morning body temp.On average it was 95.5 sometimes going as low as 93.9.i started eating around 2500 cals around 60-70g of fat a day and my temp is up to 96.5-96.9 give or take. I finally got my doc to look more into my thyroid and test level and here is my latest blood results

tsh .78------------>0.40-4.50miu/l
t4 free1.1--------->0.8-1.8ng/dl
t3,total 66-------->97-219 ng/dl
thyroid peroxidase ab <10-------->35 iu/ml
thyroglobulin ab<20--------->20iu ml

testosterone183------>241-827 ng/dl

As others mentioned, possibly do nothing medical for a while, but eat the correct food.

I am concentrating on your furnace getting ready to shut down and you assuming room temperature.


You have mentioned number of body temperatures.
ALL of these numbers are very very low.
You do have thyroid problems (most likely).
Very likely you have two major problems,
high RT3 and low T3
not sure which one is worst.
The other problems, low T etc, must take a back seat.
----------------------------------------------------------------
In general caring for thyroid watch these:
selenium, zinc, Vit B6, B12 and E, iron and iodine
----------------------------------------------------------------
Best if you could do this list of tests at Quest diagnostics
------------
7 • Iodine Panel - (2503)
8 Selenium
9 Copper, serum
10 Zinc
17 • Iron and Iron Binding Capacity (7573X) - (356N)
18 • Iron, Total (571X) - (24984P)
19 • Ferritin (457X) - (22764P)
20 • Transferrin (891X) - (30346P)
21 • Folate, RBC & Hematocrit - (1768N)
22 • Hemoglobin A1c (496X) - (45484P)
23 • Hemoglobin, Plasma (514X) - (7211P)
24 VITAMIN SCREEN
25 VITAMIN B PANEL 2 - (9067)
26 Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy, LC/MS/MS - (17306X)
27 T3, Total (859X)
28 T4, Total (Thyroxine)
29 T3 Free
30 T4,Free
31 T3, Reverse (967X)
32 Ultrasensitive TSH
33 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)

not sure if it is the right time to ask for testing adrenals:

39 Aldosterone
40 Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin) (37371X)
41 Cortisol AM/PM
42 DHEA sulfate

========================================================
Immediately, if you have them, post (with units and reanges)
RT3
T3 (t3,total 66-------->97-219 ng/dl)
FreeT3
========================================================


This numbers are not too good either.

iron,total 88------------------->45-175 mcg/dl
tibc 433----------------------->250-425mcg/dl
transferrin saturation 26--------->20-50%
ferritin 169--------------------->20-345ng/m

my cbc is also fine except for slightly low
rbc 4.06---------->4.20-5.80
hemoglobin 12.7----->13.2-17.1
hematocrit 35.6------>38.5-50%
---------------------------------------------

Not sure how to deal with them, way too high ferritin & TIBC other numbers low.

Possibly something can be divined from this web site:
http://www.ironoverload.org
====================================================

Currently there is discussion on RT3 overload here:

http://muscle-----------chatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?p=32045#post32045

I think this is going to be your priority,
this or
low
T3/FreeT3

................................................................................
Eat butter, coconut oil, eggs, good food, while you are reading all this.
Depending how you feel physicaly (no emergencies due to your low temps) and your $$ resorces, you may want to eat well for 3-4 months and after that period start the suggested testing.
Hopefully at least some of your problems will resolve naturally.
................................................................................
=========================
UREA NITROGEN 32----------->7-25mg/dl

creatinine 0.91--------------->0.50-1.30mg/dl

BUN/CREATININE RATIO 35---->6-22
=================================================
BUN/CREATININE RATIO
An increased ratio may be due to a condition that causes a decrease in the flow of blood to the kidneys, such as congestive heart failure or dehydration. It may also be seen with increased protein, from gastrointestinal bleeding, or increased protein in the diet. The ratio may be decreased with liver disease (due to decrease in the formation of urea) and malnutrition.
-----
BUN
Also known as: Urea nitrogen

 

[charliebizz]

thanks guy for your replies.belive it or not this is kind of what i wanna hear because i would love nothing more than to resolve these problems naturally.That being said you truly believe test levels can go that low from diet.In my case i believe they did but my doc belives other wise.I cant wait to get these other blood test done and share them with you guys.also how many grams of fat do you recommend a day i take in.right now i take 60-70g of fat 200-250 carbs and 200-240 protein.around 2500cals a day. I lift 3 days a week.and do low intensity cardio 4-6times a week and competitive hockey 1-2 times a week.(if any of that matters lol)

 

[charliebizz]

i left out these 3

prolactin 2.0------->20-18.0ng/ml
b12 serum 757------->200-1100pg/ml
folate serum 14.7----->5.4

 

[charliebizz]

is there any natural supplements i should try to take before i get alll the blood work done.

Im trying to eat more healty fats and trying to keep my bf% where its at while gaining alittle size but im not sure how much muscle u can grow with 183 tlevel. ive gain 10lbs since trying to eat more but it seems like more fat than muscle.

 

[EasyEJL]

probably need to cut back a little on carbs then, so you can keep fat level higher. I wouldnt take any supplements at teh moment, just wait till after next testing. The change in diet can stay permanent so changes in your results can also be permanent. but if you use a supplement and it goes up short term, it wont help when you discontinue the supplement

 

[charliebizz]

probably need to cut back a little on carbs then, so you can keep fat level higher. I wouldnt take any supplements at teh moment, just wait till after next testing. The change in diet can stay permanent so changes in your results can also be permanent. but if you use a supplement and it goes up short term, it wont help when you discontinue the supplement

everthing u said is what i was leaning towards lol.Im just having trouble staying full on less carbs more fat.almonds and coconut oil dont really fill you up lol

 

[EasyEJL]

then add some high fibrous veggies in, celery, broccoli, etc. or just add fiber like benefiber to drinks. that helps a bit.

 

[charliebizz]

then add some high fibrous veggies in, celery, broccoli, etc. or just add fiber like benefiber to drinks. that helps a bit.

very true.If you were in my shoes what kinda macro ratio would you use im currently doing 25 fat 35 carb 40 pro should i be doing more fat

 

[EasyEJL]

thats probably enough, so long as its mostly healthy fats. So funny as it sounds means choosing low fat cheese, low fat milk, lean cuts of meat etc, and adding the fats back in via nuts + coconut/olive oil.

have you tried 2-3 tbsp of the coconut oil pre-bed yet?

 

[charliebizz]

thats probably enough, so long as its mostly healthy fats. So funny as it sounds means choosing low fat cheese, low fat milk, lean cuts of meat etc, and adding the fats back in via nuts + coconut/olive oil.

have you tried 2-3 tbsp of the coconut oil pre-bed yet?

no just picked it up today......i just cant wait to get my blood work to see were im at..im tired of being cold.my temp only gets to 97.0 on a good day now.Its better then it was but still sucks.

One weird thing i noticed say i go out on fri or sat night drink a 6-8 of beers and say have a burger and fries.my temp gets up to like 97.8 97.9 and even though i feel alittle shitty from drinking i usually have more energy and feel warmer through out the day.its def not a good thing for t levels i can imagine

 

[EasyEJL]

no just picked it up today......i just cant wait to get my blood work to see were im at..im tired of being cold.my temp only gets to 97.0 on a good day now.Its better then it was but still sucks.

One weird thing i noticed say i go out on fri or sat night drink a 6-8 of beers and say have a burger and fries.my temp gets up to like 97.8 97.9 and even though i feel alittle shitty from drinking i usually have more energy and feel warmer through out the day.its def not a good thing for t levels i can imagine

its the burger and fries

my waking body temp is around 96, daytime is around 97, 97.1

 

[charliebizz]

its the burger and fries

my waking body temp is around 96, daytime is around 97, 97.1

do u have thyroid issues??

The more i think about it i belive ive had a thyroid issue since i went on that damn paxil years ago. when i used to go for regular check ups my temps would be around 97.1-97.5.ive never had the cold issue and low sex drive till the crash diet.so maybe the fatigue was from thyroid for the llast 7 years and the the cold intolerance is from the t problem due to diet

 

[EasyEJL]

i dunno if I have thyroid issues, never had them checked. was always easier to stay fat than to get thin

 

[JanSz]

no just picked it up today......i just cant wait to get my blood work to see were im at..im tired of being cold.my temp only gets to 97.0 on a good day now.Its better then it was but still sucks.

One weird thing i noticed say i go out on fri or sat night drink a 6-8 of beers and say have a burger and fries.my temp gets up to like 97.8 97.9 and even though i feel alittle shitty from drinking i usually have more energy and feel warmer through out the day.its def not a good thing for t levels i can imagine

its the burger and fries

my waking body temp is around 96, daytime is around 97, 97.1

37.00 .............. 98.60
36.95 .............. 98.51
36.90 .............. 98.42
36.85 .............. 98.33
36.80 .............. 98.24
36.75 .............. 98.15
36.70 .............. 98.06
36.65 .............. 97.97
36.60 .............. 97.88 ======= 97.9
36.55 .............. 97.79 ======= 97.8
36.50 .............. 97.70
36.45 .............. 97.61
36.40 .............. 97.52
36.35 .............. 97.43
36.30 .............. 97.34
36.25 .............. 97.25
36.20 .............. 97.16
36.15 .............. 97.07 ======= 97.1
36.10 .............. 96.98 ======= 97
36.05 .............. 96.89
36.00 .............. 96.80
35.95 .............. 96.71
35.90 .............. 96.62
35.85 .............. 96.53
35.80 .............. 96.44
35.75 .............. 96.35
35.70 .............. 96.26
35.65 .............. 96.17
35.60 .............. 96.08
35.55 .............. 95.99 ======= 96
35.50 .............. 95.90
==========================================================
Normal body temperature depends on individual, but it is somewhere between 36.6C - 37C
==========================================================
Both of you guys are talking very low temperatures.
Very unhealthy, in some cases may be close to lethal.

Thyroid analysis are in order (blood tests)
Most of thyroid treatments is hard on adrenals.
Adrenal analysis is in order (blood and saliva).
Some of adrenal problems may be corrected without much to do.
Get DHEAs pills, take enough that you blood test shows
DHEAs(500-640)
So this should be done long before anything else.

The "usual" thyroid supplements are
selenium, zinc, Vit B6, B12 and E, iron and iodine.

Very low body temperature suggest possibility of Wilson's syndrome.
that is wery high RT3 in relation to T3

RT3 is chemically identical to T3, but it have different spatial shape.
RT3 is inert.
So body is fooled to think that it have plenty of T3 while starving for T3 at the same time.

==========================================================
Tests to be done:

Blood tests

7 • Iodine Panel - (2503)
8 Selenium
9 Copper, serum
10 Zinc
17 • Iron and Iron Binding Capacity (7573X) - (356N)
18 • Iron, Total (571X) - (24984P)
19 • Ferritin (457X) - (22764P)
20 • Transferrin (891X) - (30346P)
21 • Folate, RBC & Hematocrit - (1768N)
22 • Hemoglobin A1c (496X) - (45484P)
23 • Hemoglobin, Plasma (514X) - (7211P)
27 T3, Total (859X)
28 T4, Total (Thyroxine)
29 T3 Free
30 T4,Free
31 T3, Reverse (967X)
32 Ultrasensitive TSH
33 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)
39 Aldosterone
40 Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin) (37371X)
41 Cortisol AM/PM
42 DHEA sulfate
========================================================


4 point Saliva/DHEA/cortisol test
========================================================

.
See also post #7 on this thread.
.

 

[EasyEJL]

Thanks Jan. yeah, this is my year to finally follow thru on hormonal testing. I keep putting it off, but need to do it

 

[Blackfish]

Very low body temperature suggest possibility of Wilson's syndrome.
.

This is what I was thinking.

 

[charliebizz]

i dunno if I have thyroid issues, never had them checked. was always easier to stay fat than to get thin

my other problem is im doing to much at once i think. im trying to bulk up but stay lean all while trying to get healthy lol

 

[charliebizz]

37.00 .............. 98.60
36.95 .............. 98.51
36.90 .............. 98.42
36.85 .............. 98.33
36.80 .............. 98.24
36.75 .............. 98.15
36.70 .............. 98.06
36.65 .............. 97.97
36.60 .............. 97.88 ======= 97.9
36.55 .............. 97.79 ======= 97.8
36.50 .............. 97.70
36.45 .............. 97.61
36.40 .............. 97.52
36.35 .............. 97.43
36.30 .............. 97.34
36.25 .............. 97.25
36.20 .............. 97.16
36.15 .............. 97.07 ======= 97.1
36.10 .............. 96.98 ======= 97
36.05 .............. 96.89
36.00 .............. 96.80
35.95 .............. 96.71
35.90 .............. 96.62
35.85 .............. 96.53
35.80 .............. 96.44
35.75 .............. 96.35
35.70 .............. 96.26
35.65 .............. 96.17
35.60 .............. 96.08
35.55 .............. 95.99 ======= 96
35.50 .............. 95.90
==========================================================
Normal body temperature depends on individual, but it is somewhere between 36.6C - 37C
==========================================================
Both of you guys are talking very low temperatures.
Very unhealthy, in some cases may be close to lethal.

Thyroid analysis are in order (blood tests)
Most of thyroid treatments is hard on adrenals.
Adrenal analysis is in order (blood and saliva).
Some of adrenal problems may be corrected without much to do.
Get DHEAs pills, take enough that you blood test shows
DHEAs(500-640)
So this should be done long before anything else.

The "usual" thyroid supplements are
selenium, zinc, Vit B6, B12 and E, iron and iodine.

Very low body temperature suggest possibility of Wilson's syndrome.
that is wery high RT3 in relation to T3

RT3 is chemically identical to T3, but it have different spatial shape.
RT3 is inert.
So body is fooled to think that it have plenty of T3 while starving for T3 at the same time.

==========================================================
Tests to be done:

Blood tests

7 • Iodine Panel - (2503)
8 Selenium
9 Copper, serum
10 Zinc
17 • Iron and Iron Binding Capacity (7573X) - (356N)
18 • Iron, Total (571X) - (24984P)
19 • Ferritin (457X) - (22764P)
20 • Transferrin (891X) - (30346P)
21 • Folate, RBC & Hematocrit - (1768N)
22 • Hemoglobin A1c (496X) - (45484P)
23 • Hemoglobin, Plasma (514X) - (7211P)
27 T3, Total (859X)
28 T4, Total (Thyroxine)
29 T3 Free
30 T4,Free
31 T3, Reverse (967X)
32 Ultrasensitive TSH
33 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)
39 Aldosterone
40 Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin) (37371X)
41 Cortisol AM/PM
42 DHEA sulfate
========================================================


4 point Saliva/DHEA/cortisol test
========================================================

.
See also post #7 on this thread.
.

thanks jan...I find it funny that when ever i go to the doc and they take my temp the never flinch at 96.8 0r 97.its scary when its 93.9 though u feel very shitty like that

 

[charliebizz]

37.00 .............. 98.60
36.95 .............. 98.51
36.90 .............. 98.42
36.85 .............. 98.33
36.80 .............. 98.24
36.75 .............. 98.15
36.70 .............. 98.06
36.65 .............. 97.97
36.60 .............. 97.88 ======= 97.9
36.55 .............. 97.79 ======= 97.8
36.50 .............. 97.70
36.45 .............. 97.61
36.40 .............. 97.52
36.35 .............. 97.43
36.30 .............. 97.34
36.25 .............. 97.25
36.20 .............. 97.16
36.15 .............. 97.07 ======= 97.1
36.10 .............. 96.98 ======= 97
36.05 .............. 96.89
36.00 .............. 96.80
35.95 .............. 96.71
35.90 .............. 96.62
35.85 .............. 96.53
35.80 .............. 96.44
35.75 .............. 96.35
35.70 .............. 96.26
35.65 .............. 96.17
35.60 .............. 96.08
35.55 .............. 95.99 ======= 96
35.50 .............. 95.90
==========================================================
Normal body temperature depends on individual, but it is somewhere between 36.6C - 37C
==========================================================
Both of you guys are talking very low temperatures.
Very unhealthy, in some cases may be close to lethal.

Thyroid analysis are in order (blood tests)
Most of thyroid treatments is hard on adrenals.
Adrenal analysis is in order (blood and saliva).
Some of adrenal problems may be corrected without much to do.
Get DHEAs pills, take enough that you blood test shows
DHEAs(500-640)
So this should be done long before anything else.

The "usual" thyroid supplements are
selenium, zinc, Vit B6, B12 and E, iron and iodine.

Very low body temperature suggest possibility of Wilson's syndrome.
that is wery high RT3 in relation to T3

RT3 is chemically identical to T3, but it have different spatial shape.
RT3 is inert.
So body is fooled to think that it have plenty of T3 while starving for T3 at the same time.

==========================================================
Tests to be done:

Blood tests

7 • Iodine Panel - (2503)
8 Selenium
9 Copper, serum
10 Zinc
17 • Iron and Iron Binding Capacity (7573X) - (356N)
18 • Iron, Total (571X) - (24984P)
19 • Ferritin (457X) - (22764P)
20 • Transferrin (891X) - (30346P)
21 • Folate, RBC & Hematocrit - (1768N)
22 • Hemoglobin A1c (496X) - (45484P)
23 • Hemoglobin, Plasma (514X) - (7211P)
27 T3, Total (859X)
28 T4, Total (Thyroxine)
29 T3 Free
30 T4,Free
31 T3, Reverse (967X)
32 Ultrasensitive TSH
33 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)
39 Aldosterone
40 Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin) (37371X)
41 Cortisol AM/PM
42 DHEA sulfate
========================================================


4 point Saliva/DHEA/cortisol test
========================================================

.
See also post #7 on this thread.
.

so u think i should start supplementing with dhea before i go for the blood work or after cause like stated earlier i dont wanna boost everthing up then then the doc will think everything is ok if its not i would like to find the root of the problem first but i also do wanna feel better in the mean time

lolllll im so confusing

 

[JanSz]

so u think i should start supplementing with dhea before i go for the blood work or after cause like stated earlier i dont wanna boost everthing up then then the doc will think everything is ok if its not i would like to find the root of the problem first but i also do wanna feel better in the mean time

lolllll im so confusing

You worry too much.

Pick your poison and go with it.

Lets say at first you stop all supplementation for 2 months,
then do the blood testing.

May want to add tests for Vit B6, B12 and E

Still, when you are going to take action, first make any neccessary corrections to:

DHEAs
iodine
iodide
zinc
copper
selenium


after couple monts redo the testing

depending how far you are from desirable levels
either adjust above list or go and look more closely at your

cortisol
RT3
T3/RT3 ratio
FreeT3

 

[charliebizz]

You worry too much.

Pick your poison and go with it.

Lets say at first you stop all supplementation for 2 months,
then do the blood testing.

May want to add tests for Vit B6, B12 and E

Still, when you are going to take action, first make any neccessary corrections to:

DHEAs
iodine
iodide
zinc
copper
selenium


after couple monts redo the testing

depending how far you are from desirable levels
either adjust above list or go and look more closely at your

cortisol
RT3
T3/RT3 ratio
FreeT3

Thats that damn ocd lol..well see how it goes i got the mri tommorow then i think im going to go for the blook work friday.

thanks for the advice jans.

 

[JanSz]

Thats that damn ocd lol..well see how it goes i got the mri tommorow then i think im going to go for the blook work friday.

thanks for the advice jans.

I am holding my fingers crossed, for you.
,

 

[charliebizz]

I am holding my fingers crossed, for you.
,

thanks alot i really appreciate it

 

[charliebizz]

Just to update.Mri came back normal.No lesions or tumors and pituitary is good.Just waiting on the bloodwork..

 

[MetalMX]

I have to agree with everyone else your diet was not very good.

I had a bundle of problems last year and i mean a bundle but slowly with testing and changing diet things started to improve to more tolerable states.

Coconut oil butter is great i use it all the time as well as udo's oil which has a complete omega 3,6,9 profile. Once your diet improves things will improve a bit and then you can go from their.

Do the testing as Jansz suggested. Very cold temperatures i know the feeling although i have hypothyroidism i was very very cold for 1-2 years and for me it was because of mercury so look into heavy metal overload (cadmium, arsenic, lead and mercury in particular are most common) Hair mineral analysis might give you some insight. Now i seem to have reduced my mercury burden and my temps have gone up.

I also use chinese herbs to boost my thyroid and support my adrenals and this has worked wonders also. including: glycyrrhiza uralensis (licorice), schizandra chinensis, siberian gingseng, andrographis to name a few. See a chinese herbalist and he can help you as a starting point.

Your RBC, Haemocrit look low although iron and ferritin are within range from that my assumption would be Vitamin B12 deficiency anemia. Although i am not sure. It could be worth looking into.

Good luck and keep at it!

 

[charliebizz]

I have to agree with everyone else your diet was not very good.

I had a bundle of problems last year and i mean a bundle but slowly with testing and changing diet things started to improve to more tolerable states.

Coconut oil butter is great i use it all the time as well as udo's oil which has a complete omega 3,6,9 profile. Once your diet improves things will improve a bit and then you can go from their.

Do the testing as Jansz suggested. Very cold temperatures i know the feeling although i have hypothyroidism i was very very cold for 1-2 years and for me it was because of mercury so look into heavy metal overload (cadmium, arsenic, lead and mercury in particular are most common) Hair mineral analysis might give you some insight. Now i seem to have reduced my mercury burden and my temps have gone up.

I also use chinese herbs to boost my thyroid and support my adrenals and this has worked wonders also. including: glycyrrhiza uralensis (licorice), schizandra chinensis, siberian gingseng, andrographis to name a few. See a chinese herbalist and he can help you as a starting point.

Your RBC, Haemocrit look low although iron and ferritin are within range from that my assumption would be Vitamin B12 deficiency anemia. Although i am not sure. It could be worth looking into.

Good luck and keep at it!

Yea i agree to.Its crazy how you can mess your self up so bad with diet in 6 months lol.I got alot of the test jansz suggested.just waiting on the other half my free t3 is still low so i belive its thyroid issues but gotta wait for the rest of the tests to see

 

[health4life24]

I have to agree with everyone else your diet was not very good.

I had a bundle of problems last year and i mean a bundle but slowly with testing and changing diet things started to improve to more tolerable states.

Coconut oil butter is great i use it all the time as well as udo's oil which has a complete omega 3,6,9 profile. Once your diet improves things will improve a bit and then you can go from their.

Do the testing as Jansz suggested. Very cold temperatures i know the feeling although i have hypothyroidism i was very very cold for 1-2 years and for me it was because of mercury so look into heavy metal overload (cadmium, arsenic, lead and mercury in particular are most common) Hair mineral analysis might give you some insight. Now i seem to have reduced my mercury burden and my temps have gone up.

I also use chinese herbs to boost my thyroid and support my adrenals and this has worked wonders also. including: glycyrrhiza uralensis (licorice), schizandra chinensis, siberian gingseng, andrographis to name a few. See a chinese herbalist and he can help you as a starting point.

Your RBC, Haemocrit look low although iron and ferritin are within range from that my assumption would be Vitamin B12 deficiency anemia. Although i am not sure. It could be worth looking into.

Good luck and keep at it!

Hey bro. where can you get hair testing done and for how much?

 

[MetalMX]

Hey bro. where can you get hair testing done and for how much?

Im in australia so this is local where i got it from. I paid $140 for mine. tells your all your essential and non-essential minerals and toxic metals in your hair. Huge amount of information and yet a very uninvasive test. All they take is a bit of hair.

Genovadiagnostics.com has the hair mineral analysis your best bet is their, they have locations all around the world.

 

[JanSz]

I have to agree with everyone else your diet was not very good.

I had a bundle of problems last year and i mean a bundle but slowly with testing and changing diet things started to improve to more tolerable states.

Coconut oil butter is great i use it all the time as well as udo's oil which has a complete omega 3,6,9 profile. Once your diet improves things will improve a bit and then you can go from their.

Do the testing as Jansz suggested. Very cold temperatures i know the feeling although i have hypothyroidism i was very very cold for 1-2 years and for me it was because of mercury so look into heavy metal overload (cadmium, arsenic, lead and mercury in particular are most common) Hair mineral analysis might give you some insight. Now i seem to have reduced my mercury burden and my temps have gone up.

I also use chinese herbs to boost my thyroid and support my adrenals and this has worked wonders also. including: glycyrrhiza uralensis (licorice), schizandra chinensis, siberian gingseng, andrographis to name a few. See a chinese herbalist and he can help you as a starting point.

Your RBC, Haemocrit look low although iron and ferritin are within range from that my assumption would be Vitamin B12 deficiency anemia. Although i am not sure. It could be worth looking into.

Good luck and keep at it!

Low body temperature is very important negative.
Many biological processes are temperature corelated.

This page

http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/WhyUndiagnosableWithThyroid.htm

says that wilson syndrome is really undiagnosable, and it lists reasons why.

One should suspect it when he have low body temperature.

The theraphy is rather easy to accomplish if one can get slow release T3.
I am guessing that using liquid-T3 and splitting dose to 3-4x/day would work.
Liquid-T3 is easy to get.

EDIT(2/27/09): do not use slow-release-T3 or compounded-T3



Supposedly it (sometimes) cures Hashimoto's antibody.

.
.
=========================================
http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/WhyIsIt.htm
http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/Medical.htm
http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/SiteMap.htm
.
.

 

[charliebizz]

Low body temperature is very important negative.
Many biological processes are temperature corelated.

This page

[

says that wilson syndrome is really undiagnosable, and it lists reasons why.

One should suspect it when he have low body temperature.

The theraphy is rather easy to accomplish if one can get slow release T3.
I am guessing that using liquid-T3 and splitting dose to 3-4x/day would work.
Liquid-T3 is easy to get.
y)
Supposedly it (sometimes) cures Hashimoto's antibody.

.
.
=========================================
.
.

.Ive been reading alot about wilson temp syndrome.the problem for me is their are no local docs except for ct. and nj. (i live on longi sland, ny)

 

[JanSz]

.Ive been reading alot about wilson temp syndrome.the problem for me is their are no local docs except for ct. and nj. (i live on longi sland, ny)

While ago someone was happy with this doc.
I have no clue if hi is still there.


Patrick Barrett DO
(631)472-6000
4568 Sunrise Hwy Oakdale, NY 11769-1012.

.
.

 

[charliebizz]

While ago someone was happy with this doc.
I have no clue if hi is still there.


Patrick Barrett DO
(631)472-6000
4568 Sunrise Hwy Oakdale, NY 11769-1012.

.
.

thank you so much man.depending on the outcome of my endo appointment tommorrow i most likely be giving that doc a call plus they are like 10minutes away from me.thanks again jansz

 

[The Matrix]

Hey bro. where can you get hair testing done and for how much?

i just got certifed in this i am having kits sent out as we speak so it is a valuable assement tool.
Genova does not follow the proper protocol for hair that is why I only use 2 companies.

 

[charliebizz]

Little update.Just as i thought my endo totally dimissed my thyroid and said low body temp is not an accurate way of finding anything wrong.wtff.and he wants to put me on androgel just waiting for my pending t results.he dosent now why my t is low but is gonna though a bogus treatment at me.i kinda told him i would like to no why my t is low before just treating it so i must find a new doc

 

[EasyEJL]

they never know why its low for sure.

 

[charliebizz]

here are my results of the latest blood work the doctor wrote me a script for t-gel i really dont wanna take it if anyone has any imput it would be greatly appreciated

tsh 2.13------------>0.40-4.50miu/l

t4total 7.7---------->6.5-12.5ug/dl
t4 free calculated 2.7--------->0.4-3.8ng/dl
t4 free direct dailysis1.5------>0.8-2.7

t3 free tracer dialysis
free t3 dialysis 261------------>210-448pg/il
t3 total 100------------------->97-219ng/dl

t3uptake 35--------------->33-35%
t3,total 66-------->97-219 ng/dl
thyroid peroxidase ab <10-------->35 iu/ml
thyroglobulin ab<20--------->20iu ml

testosterone220------>241-827 ng/dl
testosterone free 31.4----->46.0-2241.0pg/ml
bioavailable testosterone 67.2----->110.0-575.0ng/dl
dihydrotestosterone 24------------->25-75 ng/dl
shbg 27---------------------------->7-49nmol
albumin serum 47-----------------------> 3.6-5.1 g/
growth hormone-- 0.6------------------->....<10.0 ng/ml
Lh 1.4---------------------------------->1.5-9.3
fsh 3.5---------------------------------->1.6-8.0miu/ml
prolactin 6------------------------------->2.0-18ng/ml
cortisol total serum 14.1------------------>am 4.0-22.0----pm 3.0-17.0
psa total .35-------------------------------<=4.0 ng/ml
igf-1 254--------------------------------->126-382 ng/ml

 

[EasyEJL]

tgel is evil. it will treat symptoms, will not provide a cure, if anything it makes a cure harder. i'd think hcg monotherapy looks to be somewhat reasonable for you, as your LH is low

 

[charliebizz]

also the blood was drawn at 8 45am

 

[JanSz]

here are my results of the latest blood work the doctor wrote me a script for t-gel i really dont wanna take it if anyone has any imput it would be greatly appreciated

tsh 2.13------------>0.40-4.50miu/l

t4total 7.7---------->6.5-12.5ug/dl
t4 free calculated 2.7--------->0.4-3.8ng/dl
t4 free direct dailysis1.5------>0.8-2.7

t3 free tracer dialysis
free t3 dialysis 261------------>210-448pg/il
t3 total 100------------------->97-219ng/dl

t3uptake 35--------------->33-35%
t3,total 66-------->97-219 ng/dl
thyroid peroxidase ab <10-------->35 iu/ml
thyroglobulin ab<20--------->20iu ml

testosterone220------>241-827 ng/dl
testosterone free 31.4----->46.0-2241.0pg/ml
bioavailable testosterone 67.2----->110.0-575.0ng/dl
dihydrotestosterone 24------------->25-75 ng/dl
shbg 27---------------------------->7-49nmol
albumin serum 47-----------------------> 3.6-5.1 g/
growth hormone-- 0.6------------------->....<10.0 ng/ml
Lh 1.4---------------------------------->1.5-9.3
fsh 3.5---------------------------------->1.6-8.0miu/ml
prolactin 6------------------------------->2.0-18ng/ml
cortisol total serum 14.1------------------>am 4.0-22.0----pm 3.0-17.0
psa total .35-------------------------------<=4.0 ng/ml
igf-1 254--------------------------------->126-382 ng/ml

About your low testosterone,
you missing E2-ultrasensitive

I think that you should not use external testosterone until you complete two projects.

#1, use HCG injection to induce your testis to possibly increase their production.
you should use HCG injections every other day.
dose of each hcg shot -- (250-750iu)
Use maximum dose that would not cause excessive E2.
Use test from Quest Diagnostics for monitoring.
These tests:
----------------------
DHEA sulfate
Progesterone, LC/MS/MS - (17183X)
Pregnenolone, LC/MS/MS (31493X)
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS) Code: 14966X
Dihydrotestosterone (204X)
------------------------
Goals
DHEAs(500-640)mcg/dL
Progesterone(0.9-1.2)ng/mL
Pregnenolone(> 100ng/dL)
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive(25-29)pg/mL
Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
BATest(342, 460-575)ng/dL
DHT(60-90)ng/dL
FreeT3~400pg/dL
Body temperature (97.8° - 98.2°F) (36.56° - 36.78°C); (36.6-37C)(97.9-98.6F)
-------------------------------------------
Start with HCG=380iu
then adjust up or down per blood test, per E2.
-----------------------------------------------------

Project #2
Thyroid-low body temperature

You need to supplement with T3.
Cytomel-T3
Daily dose split into 4 equal parts
Do not use any other thyroid hormones.
This is going to last 4-6 months and then you may want to re-evaluate.
You daily Cytomel-T3 dose will be up to 160mcg/day
Dose is guided by
Resting heart beat at wake-up (max 70, but up to 80 for short time is ok)
Body temp at wake-up (97.8° - 98.2°F) (36.56° - 36.78°C)
you do not want to have more than 37C during the day
monitor
T3, Total
T3, Free
T3, Reverse

Adjust Cytomel-T3 dose aiming at top range but watching temperature and heart beat.
Do not use slow-release-T3 or compounded-T3
------------------------------------------------------------
Ideas about thyroid come from discussions here:
------------http://muscle chatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?p=33645#post33645
============================================================================

Make sure that your thyroid related elements are in order, check these:
• Iodine Panel - (2503)
Selenium
Copper, serum
Zinc
-----------------------
.

.
.

 

[EasyEJL]

oh and btw Jan, i'll have some blood test results next week

 

[charliebizz]

im ****ed right now to my medcal benifits just expired and not sure when i will get them back. so getblood test could get expensive quick.you really dont feel diet ant natural supps can take care of this jansz

 

[MetalMX]

My usual body temps are 35.5-36.0 eeek!

 

[JanSz]

im ****ed right now to my medcal benifits just expired and not sure when i will get them back. so getblood test could get expensive quick.you really dont feel diet ant natural supps can take care of this jansz

On a string:

4x/day Cytomel-T3

figure your dose by measuring temperature and pulse
newer really higher than 160mcg(Cytomel-T3)
get them in 20mcg pills
get 6 months supply all at once,
assume 6mo at 160mcg dose
365/2*160/20=1460 pills, each 20mcg

Body temperature (97.8° - 98.2°F) (36.56° - 36.78°C); (36.6-37C)(97.9-98.6F)
When I was 17teen, under arm pit, mercury thermometer, 36.6C
Now (69yo) electronic thermometer, under tongue
I think under tongue should be tad higher than under arm pit.
Resting pulse,
best at or below 60,
70- alert
80- think of reducing dose
90- do not screw around, reduce dose

do not make a sudden moves.
==================================================

But keep in mind that
half life of T4 is about 5 days, (you are not using it)
half life of T3 is few hours, so the response is fast.
.
.
Double check, I thought they were 20mcg pills (yeah, original, below is generic)

edrugnet dot come

Cynomel T3 (brand) aka Cytomel ,Tertroxin Liothyronine (Triiodothyronine) 25 mcg tab Aventis 270 tabs $200.00
============================
============================
SIDE EFFECTS:
Occasionally and especially at the beginning of treatment, or in cases of hyperdose, the following side effects will be experienced: anginous pain, cardiac arrhythmia, increased blood pressure, palpitations, cramps in the skeletal muscles, trembling.
Tachycardia, diarrhea, insomnia, excitability, headaches, fever, hot flushes, menstrual irregularities, excessive perspiration, weight loss and weak muscles are other possible side effects.
Should these take place, the patient is advised, under medical supervision, to lower the daily dosage or interrupt treatment for a few days. The patient should inform his doctor or chemist of any side effect not described in this leaflet.

 

[charliebizz]

On a string:

4x/day Cytomel-T3

figure your dose by measuring temperature and pulse
newer really higher than 160mcg(Cytomel-T3)
get them in 20mcg pills
get 6 months supply all at once,
assume 6mo at 160mcg dose
365/2*160/20=1460 pills, each 20mcg

Body temperature (97.8° - 98.2°F) (36.56° - 36.78°C); (36.6-37C)(97.9-98.6F)
When I was 17teen, under arm pit, mercury thermometer, 36.6C
Now (69yo) electronic thermometer, under tongue
I think under tongue should be tad higher than under arm pit.
Resting pulse,
best at or below 60,
70- alert
80- think of reducing dose
90- do not screw around, reduce dose

do not make a sudden moves.
==================================================

But keep in mind that
half life of T4 is about 5 days, (you are not using it)
half life of T3 is few hours, so the response is fast.
.
.
Double check, I thought they were 20mcg pills (yeah, original, below is generic)

edrugnet dot come

Cynomel T3 (brand) aka Cytomel ,Tertroxin Liothyronine (Triiodothyronine) 25 mcg tab Aventis 270 tabs $200.00
============================
============================
SIDE EFFECTS:
Occasionally and especially at the beginning of treatment, or in cases of hyperdose, the following side effects will be experienced: anginous pain, cardiac arrhythmia, increased blood pressure, palpitations, cramps in the skeletal muscles, trembling.
Tachycardia, diarrhea, insomnia, excitability, headaches, fever, hot flushes, menstrual irregularities, excessive perspiration, weight loss and weak muscles are other possible side effects.
Should these take place, the patient is advised, under medical supervision, to lower the daily dosage or interrupt treatment for a few days. The patient should inform his doctor or chemist of any side effect not described in this leaflet.

the thing about heart rate is mine is already 70 beats per min..which is od because im in great cardiovascular shape and my blood pressure is borderline low also im so confused