Starting hCG monotherapy

[LeanGuy]

Got my doc to try a script for hCG today. And it's even compunded like I wanted... 10,000iu for $70.

Going to be taking 250iu E3D and increase if necessary, depending on labs. He didn't want to give any adex yet because my E2 runs low anyway. I'll post my progress in this thread.

Jansz, you probably want to shake my hand

 

[JanSz]

Got my doc to try a script for hCG today. And it's even compunded like I wanted... 10,000iu for $70.

Going to be taking 250iu E3D and increase if necessary, depending on labs. He didn't want to give any adex yet because my E2 runs low anyway. I'll post my progress in this thread.

Jansz, you probably want to shake my hand

How did you knew . My pleasure.

Lets shake hands.
==========================================
Next time, if possible, get around 2000iu, less concern with shelf life.
Every time you touch a vial, stir the content, gently, some say that the content stratify.
-------------

post #63
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-3.html
chart on the bottom, says that:

replacement HCG dose is 306iu EOD

Eric on his blog says that testicles can be induced up to 140% of their normal capacity by using extra HCG.

Using 140% and reading chart one gets 600iu EOD

Bottom line is, you want to figure out a dose that does not raise your e2.
But if it raises, it does that mildly only.
Newer use more than 1.5mg Arimidex or equivqlent, Liquidex or Anastrozole.

You want E2(25-29)

but if SHBG is very low (like anyma's, 11), high E2 raises SHBG, in that case I would go much higher with E2.
.
.

 

[cumkwakka]

good luck mate!

 

[The Matrix]

How did you knew . My pleasure.

Lets shake hands.
==========================================
Next time, if possible, get around 2000iu, less concern with shelf life.
Every time you touch a vial, stir the content, gently, some say that the content stratify.
-------------

post #63
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-3.html
chart on the bottom, says that:

replacement HCG dose is 306iu EOD

Eric on his blog says that testicles can be induced up to 140% of their normal capacity by using extra HCG.

Using 140% and reading chart one gets 600iu EOD

Bottom line is, you want to figure out a dose that does not raise your e2.
But if it raises, it does that mildly only.
Newer use more than 1.5mg Arimidex or equivqlent, Liquidex or Anastrozole.

You want E2(25-29)

but if SHBG is very low (like anyma's, 11), high E2 raises SHBG, in that case I would go much higher with E2.
.
.

ultrasensitive 7-15 jansz ..I have been getting guys 20-25 running rhiens and serum at same time and have been keeping tabs on the results.

 

[jinxie]

How did you knew . My pleasure.

Lets shake hands.
==========================================
Next time, if possible, get around 2000iu, less concern with shelf life.
Every time you touch a vial, stir the content, gently, some say that the content stratify.
-------------

post #63
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-3.html
chart on the bottom, says that:

replacement HCG dose is 306iu EOD

Eric on his blog says that testicles can be induced up to 140% of their normal capacity by using extra HCG.

Using 140% and reading chart one gets 600iu EOD

Bottom line is, you want to figure out a dose that does not raise your e2.
But if it raises, it does that mildly only.
Newer use more than 1.5mg Arimidex or equivqlent, Liquidex or Anastrozole.

You want E2(25-29)

but if SHBG is very low (like anyma's, 11), high E2 raises SHBG, in that case I would go much higher with E2.
.
.

Leanguy (and Jan), fwiw I freeze portion of my hCG that will not be used within 30 days, after pulling it into slin pins. It's worked just fine.

Leanguy, that's a pretty low dose. I hope it works for you, and believe it will given your strong response to Clomid. I suspect that you'll need to go up, at least to 500 E3Ds, to get into the optimal zone.

Good luck. Fingers crossed.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Leanguy (and Jan), fwiw I freeze portion of my hCG that will not be used within 30 days, after pulling it into slin pins. It's worked just fine.

Have you verified this by labwork? I thought HCG wasn't supposed to be frozen.

 

[LeanGuy]

Leanguy, that's a pretty low dose. I hope it works for you, and believe it will given your strong response to Clomid. I suspect that you'll need to go up, at least to 500 E3Ds, to get into the optimal zone.

Yeah, the doc wants me to start slow but doesn't have a problem increasing after labs. I am also taking TOCO-8 which seems to work well for leydig sensitivity. I believe that's why my 2nd round of clomid was stronger.

 

[LeanGuy]

I've done two shots and so far I don't notice anything. Maybe testes aching a little. I don't expect to feel a libido boost until I have enough testosterone to raise E2 to optimal level.

 

[Glen Quagmire]

Hey Leanguy I am in So Cal too (Burbank) I was wondering where you found your Dr ? I am pretty new to TRT about 5 months in and have had little success. I started shots 5 weeks ago, and go for a blood test next week, I guess reading how some guys just have a rapid improvement I am a little disappointed. I really want to shed some body fat so I am interested in adding hCG but am having a hard time finding info on hCG with TRT, all I find is stuff that just focuses on the hCG and like a 500 cal a day diet. I am active and work out regularly so that wouldn't really work for me.

 

[The Matrix]

I've done two shots and so far I don't notice anything. Maybe testes aching a little. I don't expect to feel a libido boost until I have enough testosterone to raise E2 to optimal level.

You will get a rise in dhea for the first month on hcg then it will then crash as in TRT after awhile (80%). Keep an eye on dhea's levels

 

[LeanGuy]

You will get a rise in dhea for the first month on hcg then it will then crash as in TRT after awhile (80%). Keep an eye on dhea's levels

Wow, I did not know this.

Hey Leanguy I am in So Cal too (Burbank) I was wondering where you found your Dr ?

PM'd

 

[jinxie]

You will get a rise in dhea for the first month on hcg then it will then crash as in TRT after awhile (80%). Keep an eye on dhea's levels

My DHEA-S remained the same throughout, FWIW.

 

[LeanGuy]

deleted

 

[LeanGuy]

2 weeks in... starting to feel better... morning wood is back. I think I'm going to like hCG :thumbsup:

 

[aisstea]

nice to hear! Where do you inject hcg?

 

[Gutterpump]

Good luck! Sounds like it's already treating you well. I just started hcg monotherapy again about a month ago and this time it's working great but I am due for bloodwork to confirm. I expect it to be decent though.

250iu is a pretty low dose, but if you're a good responder, should be ok I think. I'm taking 500iu eod (IM) and have e2 issues if I don't take .5mg of arimidex on the day of the shot, sometimes on off days too if the nips start to get itchy. I never responded to hcg like this before. One big thing I changed was to really increase the amount of betain hcl I was taking in as well as my enzymes, basically doubling or tripling my dose. Eating a lot of eggs and coconut oil. Really monitoring what I'm eating and supplementing with to help it work as well as it can. Started on isocort recently too so this could also have brought my levels up a bit higher.

When are you getting updated bloodwork? Looking forward to seeing your results at only 250iu.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

Good luck! Sounds like it's already treating you well. I just started hcg monotherapy again about a month ago and this time it's working great but I am due for bloodwork to confirm. I expect it to be decent though.

250iu is a pretty low dose, but if you're a good responder, should be ok I think. I'm taking 500iu eod (IM) and have e2 issues if I don't take .5mg of arimidex on the day of the shot, sometimes on off days too if the nips start to get itchy. I never responded to hcg like this before. One big thing I changed was to really increase the amount of betain hcl I was taking in as well as my enzymes, basically doubling or tripling my dose. Eating a lot of eggs and coconut oil. Really monitoring what I'm eating and supplementing with to help it work as well as it can. Started on isocort recently too so this could also have brought my levels up a bit higher.

When are you getting updated bloodwork? Looking forward to seeing your results at only 250iu.

Try doing 750IUs E3D day. I ran into E2 issues on the EOD protocol. My doctor warned me about the frequency, but I had to see for myself. HCG stays active in your system up to four days.

 

[LeanGuy]

I'm due for blood work at the end of the month. My goal is to find a dose that keeps my E2 around 30 without adex. My E2 has always been low (like 10-15).

 

[colkurtz_spf]

I'm due for blood work at the end of the month. My goal is to find a dose that keeps my E2 around 30 without adex. My E2 has always been low (like 10-15).

My experience with E2 and HCG has been tricky. In the beginning I was on 10,000 IUs per week with TT over 1400 - FT over 350 and E2 at 16. Now I need, or at least think I need .5 mg of Arimidex with my injections of 1500 IUs E3D. I suppose I could find the perfect dose that would eliminate the need for adex, but my numbers are just about perfect and I feel great. I don't understand the aversion to adex. My advice is to check your levels every 3 months for at least the first year. If, for any reason you have an E2 spike try Liquidex. It's cheap and will do the trick.

 

[LeanGuy]

My experience with E2 and HCG has been tricky. In the beginning I was on 10,000 IUs per week with TT over 1400 - FT over 350 and E2 at 16. Now I need, or at least think I need .5 mg of Arimidex with my injections of 1500 IUs E3D. I suppose I could find the perfect dose that would eliminate the need for adex, but my numbers are just about perfect and I feel great. I don't understand the aversion to adex. My advice is to check your levels every 3 months for at least the first year. If, for any reason you have an E2 spike try Liquidex. It's cheap and will do the trick.

I'll use it if necessary... my doc won't script it unless I have labs showing high E2. But it would be nice to not need another med.

 

[LeanGuy]

nice to hear! Where do you inject hcg?

It is painless sub-q, tiny needle. I pinch a little fat around my abdomen. That's the only place I have any... I am lean guy

 

[Gutterpump]

Try doing 750IUs E3D day. I ran into E2 issues on the EOD protocol. My doctor warned me about the frequency, but I had to see for myself. HCG stays active in your system up to four days.

It may sound strange, but I was doing that (650-750iu) e3d and still had issues. So I am trying lower amounts eod. This week I started about 400iu eod, adex only on day of shot and libido + mw is great. No sign of e2 issues yet with this protocol, but it looks like I will always need an AI.

Maybe once I sort out methylation issues and other issues, then my estrogen metabolism will improve. It's a good thing I don't have high cholesterol. With the amount of adex I've been taking (2-3mg pw), it would not be too healthy.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

It may sound strange, but I was doing that (650-750iu) e3d and still had issues. So I am trying lower amounts eod. This week I started about 400iu eod, adex only on day of shot and libido + mw is great. No sign of e2 issues yet with this protocol, but it looks like I will always need an AI.

Maybe once I sort out methylation issues and other issues, then my estrogen metabolism will improve. It's a good thing I don't have high cholesterol. With the amount of adex I've been taking (2-3mg pw), it would not be too healthy.

This stuff can be tricky. I don't think there's a cookie cutter formula. For what it's worth, I've tried higher doses adex, and never experienced cholesterol problems. My total is usually in the 150s.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

I'll use it if necessary... my doc won't script it unless I have labs showing high E2. But it would be nice to not need another med.

I know how you feel. I don't like to depend on anything. There's a pharmacy that makes lipid encapsulated hormones - mostly for woman. They have had success with oxytocin, estrogen and low dose testosterone. The lipid encapsulation prevents the hormone from making the first pass through the liver, and in the case of oxitocin prevents stomach acids from destroying it.

They have agreed to encapsulate HCG for me, and I've agreed to be their guinea pig. It will be a while before I can post anything. In a few weeks I'll be taking a blood draw to establish my current condition - liver values will be included to see if it does bypass the liver. I will try the caps for 3 to 4 weeks and retest. We will probably have to make adjustments in the dose to compensate for the digestive system. When I get this figured out I will post the results.

 

[aisstea]

well, started my hcg therapy today. Have pregnyl 5000iu with 1ml. Took 0.05ml (250iu) today and think I messed up everything.

I had an insulin needle which I put 0.5 inch into my triceps. Slowly injected but it seems that all hcg came out when I took of the needle from the triceps.

What did I wrong?

 

[LeanGuy]

well, started my hcg therapy today. Have pregnyl 5000iu with 1ml. Took 0.05ml (250iu) today and think I messed up everything.

I had an insulin needle which I put 0.5 inch into my triceps. Slowly injected but it seems that all hcg came out when I took of the needle from the triceps.

What did I wrong?

Sounds like you're trying to use an insulin needle for IM injection?? Is this how your doctor told you to do it, because everyone I know does hCG sub-q.

 

[Gutterpump]

I shoot IM into my thigh with a slin pin. If you're fairly lean and shot straight, not on an angle, you should hit the muscle, you can tell when you're pinning too (at least I can). I personally tried subq (pinching skin and then shooting) for hcg + test but didn't like it.

I don't understand how this guy can have hcg leak straight back out though, strange..must be flexing and/or shooting shallow?

Aisstea - shoot into the front or side part of your thigh, do it in lots of light so you can avoid hitting a vein as well. Easiest place to shoot anything. Shooting hcg around the navel stung I found, for some reason. Try on an angle as well, it will prevent leakage if you're going sub-q.

 

[LeanGuy]

I shoot IM into my thigh with a slin pin. If you're fairly lean and shot straight, not on an angle, you should hit the muscle, you can tell when you're pinning too (at least I can). I personally tried subq (pinching skin and then shooting) for hcg + test but didn't like it.

Ahh, the pharmacist said my slin pin wouldn't make it into the muscle. Sounds more painful than sub-q... I've been ok with it.

 

[Gutterpump]

It barely makes it, but if you shoot straight down into a lean area, it should just get to it. It's like pinning a peptide like mgf or igf1-lr3, slin pin into the muscle. I could imagine shootin tri's would hurt though

 

[colkurtz_spf]

well, started my hcg therapy today. Have pregnyl 5000iu with 1ml. Took 0.05ml (250iu) today and think I messed up everything.

I had an insulin needle which I put 0.5 inch into my triceps. Slowly injected but it seems that all hcg came out when I took of the needle from the triceps.

What did I wrong?

Next time try diluting with 5 ML of water and inject 25. Either subq or IM works, and neither is painful, but I prefer subq.

I'm looking forward to trying HCG capsules. Imagine not having to travel with needles and refrigerated medicine.

 

[LeanGuy]

I'm looking forward to trying HCG capsules. Imagine not having to travel with needles and refrigerated medicine.

Yes, keep us updated!

 

[colkurtz_spf]

Yes, keep up updated!

I will!

 

[aisstea]

well, there is no doc. in background. My doc. said that 250ui will work but didn´t want to prescribe me. He just wanted to give me clomid because that´s how he treats usually or basically

 

[colkurtz_spf]

well, there is no doc. in background. My doc. said that 250ui will work but didn´t want to prescribe me. He just wanted to give me clomid because that´s how he treats usually or basically

I'm sure you know that Clomid is toxic to your liver, and cannot be used long- term. You better find another doctor.

 

[aisstea]

I'm sure you know that Clomid is toxic to your liver, and cannot be used long- term. You better find another doctor.

Have a new doc. but he´s in another country that i´m ariving next month. I´ve got the appointment for march and he´s working with hcg. Just thought about start to taking it before...

 

[aisstea]

2. day. No improvement in mood but therefor night woods and spontanius woods during the day... I like it

 

[LeanGuy]

2. day. No improvement in mood but therefor night woods and spontanius woods during the day... I like it

That was fast... took me 2 weeks to feel anything. But I am really liking the way I feel now, I hope it lasts!

 

[colkurtz_spf]

That was fast... took me 2 weeks to feel anything. But I am really liking the way I feel now, I hope it lasts!

It has worked three years for me. As long as your testes are good it should last. At your age, I imagine that will be for quite some time.

 

[aisstea]

Ok, now it's different Bought new needles. Long very thin insulin needled. Took 1ml (IU) and gave it IM into thighs. First I had a muscle shrug. Than I gave it slow into muscle. It didn't hurt but was a little inconvenient. Anyway. It's been 10 minutes after and the muscle still feels a little inconvenient. But this time nothing got out of the muscle.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

Ok, now it's different Bought new needles. Long very thin insulin needled. Took 1ml (IU) and gave it IM into thighs. First I had a muscle shrug. Than I gave it slow into muscle. It didn't hurt but was a little inconvenient. Anyway. It's been 10 minutes after and the muscle still feels a little inconvenient. But this time nothing got out of the muscle.

Why would you inject IM? I've tried both and personally feel subq gives better results. It could be the way it's released through fatty tissue.

It's good you have insulin needles, although shorter is better in this case. Next time pinch some fat around your abdomen and inject. It's quick and easy - you won't feel a thing. I'm sure you can find how to illustrations on the net.

 

[JanSz]

I use these needles last two years.

Daily shots, one day T-shot, next day HCG-shot
I use one hand only to do my shots, the other hand may stay in the pocket, it is not used.

I shoot everywhere except bones, testicles, eyes, etc.
But it hurts when I shoot into my thighs, so I do not go there anymore.
I insert the needle fully until the tip of syringe makes about 1/4" indentation, then I press the plunger.
No pulling back to check for blood.
Syringe is 30-90degree (so almost perpendicular to the skin).
I have been warned that very shallow, right under the thin skin shots may cause allergy after prolonged use.
Not sure why would that be so, but just in case I do not do this type of injections.


http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HOP&Product_Code=4724290&Product_Count=&Category_Code=
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95

They also have other than BD brands, less expensive, I did not tried them, most likely they would also work.
.
.

 

[aisstea]

I use these needles last two years.

Daily shots, one day T-shot, next day HCG-shot
I use one hand only to do my shots, the other hand may stay in the pocket, it is not used.

I shoot everywhere except bones, testicles, eyes, etc.
But it hurts when I shoot into my thighs, so I do not go there anymore.
I insert the needle fully until the tip of syringe makes about 1/4" indentation, then I press the plunger.
No pulling back to check for blood.
Syringe is 30-90degree (so almost perpendicular to the skin).
I have been warned that very shallow, right under the thin skin shots may cause allergy after prolonged use.
Not sure why would that be so, but just in case I do not do this type of injections.


http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HOP&Product_Code=4724290&Product_Count=&Category_Code=
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95

They also have other than BD brands, less expensive, I did not tried them, most likely they would also work.
.
.

Well, we have obviously the same effect in the thighs.

 

[Gutterpump]

Ok, now it's different Bought new needles. Long very thin insulin needled. Took 1ml (IU) and gave it IM into thighs. First I had a muscle shrug. Than I gave it slow into muscle. It didn't hurt but was a little inconvenient. Anyway. It's been 10 minutes after and the muscle still feels a little inconvenient. But this time nothing got out of the muscle.

There is no need to flex the muscle when you inject, just relax, find a spot with no visible veins, and puncture quick. You can insert the rest slow, but the initial pinning through the skin should be quick unless you enjoy pain. The surface of the skin is where the most nerves are.

I also prefer pinning in the thigh. For some reason I have better results IM, pinning small amounts more frequently.

HCG is active for a long time in the body anyhow, so I don't see the need for pinning into fat to prolong the release, this doesn't make sense to me when something already has a long half life.

 

[aisstea]

There is no need to flex the muscle when you inject, just relax, find a spot with no visible veins, and puncture quick. You can insert the rest slow, but the initial pinning through the skin should be quick unless you enjoy pain. The surface of the skin is where the most nerves are.

I also prefer pinning in the thigh. For some reason I have better results IM, pinning small amounts more frequently.

HCG is active for a long time in the body anyhow, so I don't see the need for pinning into fat to prolong the release, this doesn't make sense to me when something already has a long half life.

I didn't flex but thanks.

 

[Gutterpump]

Ah, I thought that's what you meant by 'muscle shrug'. But no problem

 

[colkurtz_spf]

Ah, I thought that's what you meant by 'muscle shrug'. But no problem

Why do you guys inject IM? Is there a benefit I'm unaware of?

 

[Gutterpump]

Not that I know of, other than it was meant to be shot IM. I don't see a benefit of shooting sub-q, not with hcg. I can see why with test (easier, more comfortable shot - even though with test I still prefer a 1" pin IM into thigh) but IM with slin pin is like slicing butter with a hot knife, and I know that the shot isn't lingering in fat as well, I know that I am getting my intended dose on each day that I take the shot. The half life is long, so I don't see a need for delaying it's release as well.

 

[thenxtgrt1]

Leanguy when do you test again to gauge your levels? It sounds like it's going well for you. I think it'll be a success. I was taking 250iu EOD and my levels skyrocketed. But I believe my estrogen levels were holding me back. Also, how does hcg make you feel compared to clomid?

 

[LeanGuy]

Leanguy when do you test again to gauge your levels? It sounds like it's going well for you. I think it'll be a success. I was taking 250iu EOD and my levels skyrocketed. But I believe my estrogen levels were holding me back. Also, how does hcg make you feel compared to clomid?

I am due for next testing around the 1st. I feel much better than clomid, I think I'm building some decent E2 levels (mine was always too low). Night erections have returned, almost all night long. I am still sleeping too light though, that is my only complaint. Probably adrenals, I might try some low dose hydrocortisone next.

 

[aisstea]

Why do you guys inject IM? Is there a benefit I'm unaware of?

i read in a german university study from last year that IM is more effect full. I think I know why it was uncomfortable, I did the shot in the front thighs and not in the side how it is recommended...