Vicaine - Opioid Stimulant Complex- EXPERT FEEDBACK thread

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  1. Vicaine - Opioid Stimulant Complex- EXPERT FEEDBACK thread


    Anabolic Minds-

    Happy to be the MA Labs Rep Here to help you out with this Product line.
    "WES20" gets you 20% off all Products at checkout at www.masupps.com. Use my code and this entitles you to any assistance you need, questions, customer service, you name it. PM me and please allow 24 hours for a response.

    1) Let me first say this, I have used both of these products for months on end, and my personal feedback is that they are A+++

    2) MA Labs is a Sister Company to Iron Mag Labs, Iron Mag Research, IML Hers, MuscleGELZ. Iron Mag Labs is one of the longest running most reputable companies that exists. ALL products are 100% lab tested. These are the highest quality products imagineable. Someone in the other thread was questioning Iron Mag Labs. As a long time customer before ever being a REP, I can tell you my personal experiences have been amazing. IML is an amazing company.

    Oh yeah and by the way, for those of you guys slamming them and praising Hi-Tech in other threads ( I witnessed this myself). Let me clue you guys in on a little secret. IML has used Hi-Tech to manufacture various products that they carry. So your argument is invalid.

    3) My long time experience outside of Supplement Sales/production is that I administered Meds (primarily Psych meds) for close to a decade. I worked counseling, group counseling and as a Behavioral Therapist working with Brain Injury patients on the Neurology Unit, so my experience with psych meds, their effects and their dangers is diverse.

    You are going to have a difficult time finding anyone as honest and experienced as me to tell you the benefits and dangers of these style items. (psych meds, nootropics, opiods, etc)


    Now that we have all the BS out of the way, I am here to help you guys. I am going to give you honest feedback and answers, whether you like the answer or not. I will show you the utmost respect, and I ask for that in exchange in this thread.


    Thank you
    -Wesley

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  2. A question from the other thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Also, what is your opinion on the safety of regular (not daily of course), continued flmodafinil use? There seems to be a relative dearth of information (studies on safety, efficacy, etc) on flmodafinil compared to Modafinil or even armodafinil. I have used flmodafinil and really enjoyed it, but the lack of safety data on it is keeping me from wanting to use it more frequently. Of course, I know it's similar to Modafinil, but I'm curious if you guys have any more info on it.
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  3. Subbed to follow

  4. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    A question from the other thread:
    Ok got it, this is not only a GREAT question but VERY important. There are both benefits and risks in using these ingredients. Risk primarily is linked to abuse but I will touch on this in full.

    I will also let you guys know about DRUG TESTING. You will NOT FAIL a standard drug test using this.


    Please let me answer this in full shortly please. Have to run my daughter out to her moms, and I will be back and answer all the questions I can.

    Thank you guys!!

    BTW here are photos I took for you guys. This is me holding the bottle and the labell shows the breakdown as you can see.
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  5. Very interested
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Also, what is your opinion on the safety of regular (not daily of course), continued flmodafinil use? There seems to be a relative dearth of information (studies on safety, efficacy, etc) on flmodafinil compared to Modafinil or even armodafinil. I have used flmodafinil and really enjoyed it, but the lack of safety data on it is keeping me from wanting to use it more frequently. Of course, I know it's similar to Modafinil, but I'm curious if you guys have any more info on it.


    To attempt to answer this to the best of my ability. Are their risks in taking/using any of the ingredients in Vicaine?
    Let me first say I am of the belief that anytime you put ANYTHING into your body, even naturally occurring ingredients there is "potential" risk. So for Vicaine. Yes, their is potential risk. Vicaine is NOT for everyone. I personally would suggest that anyone with Addiction issues, they should very very carefully consider whether or not they need this product. Second, if you are suffering from a psych disorder, or diagnosed with a psych disorder, you have to be very careful using this. Mind you, I cannot say this as "medical advice" but I have seen this product work very well in users with various psychological issues, or even addiction issues. So it is a double edged sword. Can be a miracle, or it can be a disaster, if abused in these situation. NEVER abuse this. Never mix with other SSRI's, psych meds or Opiates. This increases any potential risk.


    Fluorinated Modafinil- This ingredient is still in PHASE 1 trials. It is not "approved" for human use, but this does not mean it is not safe enough for use, it means though that it has not been approved for for use as an ADHD drug. This means no human studies yet. It is 2-4X more potent than regular Moda, provides a more potent stim effect, and is a stronger dopamine re-uptake inhibitor.

    So we can learn alot about this product from Modafinil, the success drug. Also the Patent that exists tells quite the bit about it.
    PATENT LINK
    https://www.google.com/patents/US20130295196
    Fl_Modafinil is referred to as "Lauflimide" in this information.
    The stimulant substances used in the pharmacological treatment of ADHD, in particular in children, belong to several pharmacological classes: psychostimulants (amphetamine, methylphenidate, bupropion), eugregorics (modafinil, adrafinil), and monoamine oxidase B inhibitors (selegiline).

    FL-Modafinil- Surprisingly and unexpectedly, the inventors have synthesized a molecule similar to modafinil and adrafinil and have shown that it is more effective than these two molecules in their indications with fewer side effects.
    [0044]
    This molecule is lauflumide, or (2-((bis(4-fluorophenyl)methane)sulfinyl) acetamide:

    Lauflumide is not an amphetamine. Consequently, it does not have the side effects of amphetamines.
    It is 20 times more effective than adrafinil and 4 times more effective than modafinil.


    How long is Fl-Modafinil effective?
    It has an expected effectiveness in plasma of 6 to 7 hours.

    How should Fl-Modafinil be dosed?
    According to an aspect of the invention, lauflumide is used as a drug according to a dosing schedule of 1 to 600 mg per day, preferably according to a dosing schedule of 50 to 400 mg per day.

    Mechanism of Fl-Modafinil?
    The exact mechanism of action is unclear, although in vitro studies have shown it to inhibit the reuptake of dopamine by binding to the dopamine reuptake pump, and lead to an increase in extracellular dopamine. Modafinil activates glutamatergic circuits while inhibiting GABA.

    Most Common Adverse Reactions with Modafinil/ Fl-Modafinil-
    3,500 patients were studied. Most Common Adverse Reactions

    In placebo-controlled clinical trials, the most common adverse reactions ( ≥ 5%) associated with the use of Modafinil more frequently than placebo-treated patients were headache, nausea, nervousness, rhinitis, diarrhea, back pain, anxiety, insomnia, dizziness, and dyspepsia. The adverse reaction profile was similar across these studies.

    Most common side effects reported from Fl-Modafinil-
    Most Common Adverse Reactions
    Headache and Anxiety

    Most common reported side effects from VICAINE-

    Headache, anxiety, sleeplessness, Spikes in Blood Pressure during workout, Lethargy (crash after product wears off), Fatigue was also reported in users who reported abusing this product (more then 3 capsules at a time)
    \
    ABUSE of Modafinil / Fl-Modafinil
    Abuse


    In humans, modafinil produces psychoactive and euphoric effects, alterations in mood, perception, thinking, and feelings typical of other CNS stimulants. In in vitro binding studies, modafinil binds to the dopamine reuptake site and causes an increase in extracellular dopamine, but no increase in dopamine release. Modafinil is reinforcing, as evidenced by its self-administration in monkeys previously trained to self-administer cocaine. In some studies, modafinil was also partially discriminated as stimulant-like. Physicians should follow patients closely, especially those with a history of drug and/or stimulant (e.g., methylphenidate, amphetamine, or cocaine) abuse. Patients should be observed for signs of misuse or abuse (e.g., incrementation of doses or drug-seeking behavior).

    Withdrawals-
    Dependence


    In one placebo-controlled clinical trial, the effects of modafinil withdrawal were monitored following 9 weeks of modafinil use. There were no reported withdrawal symptoms with modafinil during 14 days of observation, although sleepiness returned in narcoleptic patients.

    Warnings:
    WARNINGS
    Serious Rash, including Stevens-Johnson Syndrome


    There have been ZERO reports of this while using VICAINE, however this is a reported potential serious side effect in Modafinil. Again the sides of Fl-Modafinil are substantially lesser then with Modafinil.

    Serious rash requiring hospitalization and discontinuation of treatment has been reported in adults and children in association with the use of modafinil.



    NEXT Ingredient to be Evaluated: Tianeptine - Stay Tuned
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  7. Tianeptine- Another ingredient in Vicaine

    Tianeptine ACTS as an ANTI DEPRESSANT-
    Tianeptine is also effective in alleviating the symptoms of depression-associated anxiety. It is generally well tolerated, with little sedation or cognitive impairment. The neurobiological properties of tianeptine may provide an explanation not only for its antidepressant activity, but also for its anxiolytic effects in depressed patients and its lack of adverse effects on cognitive function and memory.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18072812

    Tianeptine was discovered in the 1960s by the French Society of Medical Research. This nootropic is available as a prescription for depression in some countries under the trade names of Coaxil, Stablon, Tianeurax and Tatinol. Despite sharing structural similarities with tricyclic antidepressants, Tianeptine lacks several drawbacks that SSRIs carry and has more positive benefits beyond just being an antidepressant.

    Analysis of the side effects of Tianeptine
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3180119

    The evaluation of clinical and paraclinical safety of tianeptine was performed in (a) clinical pharmacology studies assessing night sleep EEG organization; electrocardiographic stability by continuous 24-h recordings (Holter's method); ocular tonus in patients with stabilized glaucoma; salivary flow; prolactin secretion; photodynamic dermatologic reactions; cerebral electrical activity; hematologic, hepatic, renal and main metabolic parameters; separately, withdrawal phenomena and addictive potential were searched for in drug addicts; (b) double-blind controlled studies versus reference compounds.

    The results confirm that the therapeutic safety of tianeptine is satisfactory with respect to clinical side effects and paraclinical parameters.

    It does not induce anticholinergic effects (dry mouth, constipation, etc.), even in elderly subjects. It is devoid of heart and blood pressure side effects including postural hypotension tachycardia, ECG abnormalities, and especially atrioventricular or intraventricular conduction disorders. Moreover, tianeptine does not disturb the hematologic, renal, hepatic parameters, even in alcoholic patients in the detoxification period. It does not induce physical or psychological signs of dependence when discontinued, even in alcoholic patients or drug addicts. No abuse of tianeptine and no tolerance were noted in detoxified opiate addicts.

    Tianeptine and Potential for Addiction in former Opiate Addicts-

    There is an increased risk for this population.

    Supposedly, Tianeptine, in contrast to other anti-depressants, stimulates release of neurotransmitter dopamine in nucleus Accumbens, that probably determine addictive potential of this drug. High level of anxiety, excitability and vegetodysfunctions, presumably could be explained by activation of the NMDA (glutamate receptors) receptor system in Locus coeruleus, and in vegetative ganglion. In the present article potential threat that may develop at Tianeptine consumption, especially in former opiate consumers, without medical purposes has been emphasized.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19801742



    My personal evaluation of Tianeptine / in and out of Vicaine-

    Let me first say that I do not like Opiates. They make me feel nauseated in moderate or higher dosages. And the 2 times i took 4 caps of Vicaine (which is NOT suggested,please follow the directions on the bottle) I did feel fatigued when this wore off and I did feel nauseated for several hours.

    What I will say is that I have used this product for months straight, daily,which is NOT in line with the directed use. I have come off and stopped cold turkey and have had ZERO withdrawal effects. Zero sleep disruption, etc...

    What I will admit is the potential for "psychological addiction" in any user. For example, I use 2 caps ED in the morning. With a large glass of water. I generally am super tired and fatigued all the time and in the morning, I generally am always in a cranky mood, but this has always been this way. So when I use Vicaine, at 2 caps ED, once it kicks in I am fine. And I do not suffer moods, or fatigue. I can focus better, have more energy and that feeling of "being tired" does not exist. It helps me function in all daily activities, minus being "high" like Adderall or Ritalin have done in the past when I use them.

    This product effectively makes me feel good, alert, focused, I can think clearer have more energy and I do not have a "euphoric" feeling at 2 caps a day. But what I will say is when you discontinue using this product, you return to normal. So this product "MIGHT" be psychologically addicting for some users.

    I have run out of this product and had to wait a week to get another bottle and while I am disappointed, I do not feel any immediate urges or withdrawals. I do feel the urge to continue this product, since it makes my daily quality of life beter, if this makes sense?

    This is the identical feedback I am hearing from 100% of my clients. Even in Opiate / drug addicted (former) Customers and clients, I am not hearing one report that a user has suffered withdrawal or addiction effects from Vicaine.

    Dosaging-
    There are a number of drugs being tested and already on the marker that qualifies as nootropics, which are presented as “Smart Drugs”. Smart Drugs are believed to be low-risk and work to improve, enhance, or repair damage done to the brain via injury or disease. Most of the nootropics commonly discussed fall under the heading of Racetam, yet there are many that do not. Tianeptine is a nootropic, but it is classified as an antidepressant selective serotonin re-uptake enhancer (SSRE). Tianeptine is generally prescribed in doses broken up into individual doses of approximately 12 mg each, in the treatment of severe depression, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorder, and other “adjustment disorders”. In clinical trials, it has been determined that Tianeptine is as efficient as more common antidepressants, like amitriptyline and clomipramine. In addition, their effectiveness seems to require a smaller dose than the traditional antidepressants, as well (Wagstaff & et. al, 2001).

    The recommended dosage of Tianeptine capsules is usually 12-36 mg per day, taken as 12mg individual dosages, one in the morning and one in the afternoon and a final in the evening time. This substance is sold in capsule, tablet and powder form. Vicaines dosaging is Substantially higher.

    Tianeptine Side Effects-
    Tianeptine may be a much safer alternative to many of the antidepressants on the market today. The listing of side effects that are associated with are minor and tolerable, they include drowsiness, dry-mouth, insomnia, dizziness, constipation, bouts of low blood pressure, and some patients describe unusually vivid dreams.
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  8. The remaining ingredients are :

    Sunifiram, Theacrine, Caffeine, L-theanine and Choline.

    These ingredients are very well tolerated generally speaking. If anyone wants a list of potential side effects of these, please let me know..but the Powerhouse of Vicaine is Fl-Modafinil and Tianeptine.

    Should I use VICAINE?

    This is an ethical and moral decision that you have to make on your own. It is individual and MA Labs and myself respect each individuals decision to use or not use this product.

    What I will add, is that what I see infrequently, but sometimes is an "intolerance" of those individuals who choose NOT TO USE Vicaine that attempt to push their views, morals and ethics on others.

    And this is where I personally disagree with those individuals.

    Just as I don't want the Government interfering in "my" life and telling me what "I can" and "can't do"...I find that some individuals attempt to act in this regard, and it is unacceptable in my opinion. I don't want you telling me what "I should or should not use". Feel free to communicate your OPINION..but that does not give you a right to slam a product, just because you don't agree it should or shouldn't be sold.

    My experience administering Prescribed Psych meds is that the Majority of the ones I have administered are FAR MORE DANGEROUS then a product like Vicaine and they are handed out like candy and often abused. For those patients truly suffering from disorders, or looking for increases in mood, focus, attention, etc..these drugs when dosed low and used properly can be miracle drugs in terms of quality of life, though all of them carry SOME RISK of Side Effects or Dependency.

    The same people often do not condone, Research Chems, Sarms, DMAA, Ephedrine, AAS, Kratom and other PED's. Which is fine for "those individuals".

    Vicaine IS NOT for everyone!!! But it is an AMAZING compound for those who choose to use it, SAFELY and PROPERLY!

    This is for the INDIVIDUAL to choose.

    Assess the risk of a product. Make an EDUCATED DECISION. Then you either choose to purchase or not purchase this product or other products as such.

    WARNING LABELS: Warning labels are on VICAINE. And I STRESS the importance of this. Do not use this product in conjunction with other stims, drugs, SSRI's, alcohol, pscyh meds, opiates, etc.. DO NOT ABUSE THIS PRODUCT!


    Let me list some reviews for you guys, from clients/customers so you can see if this product fits your current needs...
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  9. Stri8tedGod-

    Vicaine review

    Rarely do I find a supplement that lives up to the hype and I'm excited about! Vicaine truly kicks ass! Energy is a 10/10 and I feel incredible on it! Excited to see what this company has in store for the future! 2 caps is my sweet spot! 3 caps I actually feel too much of a buzz! Gonna try the nsx6 next! Still have to purchase it but gonna be placing an order for my third bottle of somatazine in conjunction!


    Sherk

    The vicaine is awesome. The product is the real deal and does everything it's claimed. Very few supps on the market can actually do that. The nsx6 is another that lives up to its name.

    Intense-

    This is good stuff, took it for the first time today.

    Very comparable to the energy I get from an opiate, but I'm focused as well.



    Triple Overtime
    Here's my assessment. The other day I took one cap on a full stomach. Nice and smooth. Focus on point, feel good effect. Just as everyone described. Perfect "buzz" that lasted quite a while.

    This morning. Two caps, empty stomach, 16 oz. Black coffee, and chewing tobacco... too much for this guy. Over the top buzz, not really over jittery but more of a excessive body "high", if you will. Strange to describe as it is somewhat enjoyable, but at the same time way too much out of the normal state of regular feeling for me. Hard to describe as I generally don't aim or have much experience for products like this.

    No doubt, I can say that the combination of empty stomach, extra caffein from coffee and tobacco have been a factor in putting me over the top this A.M. one on a full stomach was perfect. This morning the combination of what I have going on is too much for me. I'm sure some would enjoy what I'm feeling right now, but its not for me.

    I do enjoy krstom from time to time, but in very small doses... 2-4 grams and not regularly.

    One thing is for sure, this product is very strong, especially for someone like me that doesn't typically indulge in the feeling. Great product, I just need to tone it down for future use.


    Best Nootropic 5 Star Review

    Posted by Nate on 3rd Feb 2017


    It's the BEST nootropic I've ever used hands down. 3-4/5 for pain...but I'm also tolerant....but energy, focus, etc is amazing and its by far the greatest mental energy supp blend I've ever used and I've taken nuvigil, adderall, vyvanse, etc.


    Powerful 5 Star Review

    Posted by Chris on 3rd Feb 2017

    "Gonna tell everyone right now right here this product is 150% legit... get it while u can is all I'm saying Ik I am. Lots of marketing scams out there but this is not one of them.. without going into detail I've had major lumbar and cervical fusions and have been stuck on pain meds for years and I'm not talking just a Vicodin either I'm talking very very powerful stuff most drs won't prescribe to cancer patients.. this stuff WILL replace your cravings and help anyone in pain I personally guarantee and I'm no novice to opioid medications.. I'm giving this a 10/10 and the fast shipping from iml cannot be beat. 2 days from order to door ... I'm gonna say I've lived in a lot of pain w my back even though I criple myself at work and in the gym I will not give up, this stuff has taken my pain levels to the lowest it's been since before i started having issues w degenerative disc disease . It's no fun. Even if this stuff only worked for one day it's a blessing to be pain free for a single day .. even hooked to button controled iv dialaudid for 3 days I had more pain than I have now. Who knew there was a legal alternative this whole time. Cannot thank Wesley enough and whoever the genius is for creating this product. I'll stop rambling u get my point. I'm in no way affiliated w iml or any other supplement companies I'm just average joe in ny here giving my honest opinions"


    ChocolateMalt
    Thumbs up from me as well.

    I usually take 2 caps a few hours apart early or mid-day. Nice mood and energy pickup without downsides. I do mix in fairly regular low dose (2g) kratom and sometimes pure tianeptine by itself so I can't say I'm every getting a "clean" reading on the vicaine but it still has a good effect.


    Intense
    I take 20mg adderall XR 2-3 times a week(depending on work projects etc.) and I'm planning to use this product on my off days from adderall during the work week, so I will be using vicaine about 2 times a week. On weekends I don't take anything.

    Today I took 2 caps about 2 hours after consuming a carton of egg whites and a cup of oats. Also took my daily 5000iu D3, coq10, and omega 3s.

    Took the vicaine with a cup of coffee. It kicked in about 20 minutes ago and I'm feeling damn good. Very comparable to a 10mg oxy or hydro. I love opiates as much as the next person, but I just never let them consume me so I literally have 0 tolerance to the stuff.



    Thanks for putting out a solid product Mike. If people just use it responsibly they would never have any issues, but that's with any drug IMO.


    Only thing I can say is that I wish it lasted longer, but who wouldn't want to feel good longer lol. I like the fact it doesn't turn me into an irritable ******* when it wears off like oxy and other opiates.
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  11. Vicaine - Opioid Stimulant Complex- EXPERT FEEDBACK thread


    Subd, will the price lower? In my opinion that's a bit pricey for a product that doesn't directly effect body composition. On the other hand, it being pricey would stray away anyone that would primarily look to abuse it.
  12. Vicaine - Opioid Stimulant Complex- EXPERT FEEDBACK thread


    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyInman View Post
    My experience administering Prescribed Psych meds is that the Majority of the ones I have administered are FAR MORE DANGEROUS then a product like Vicaine and they are handed out like candy and often abused. For those patients truly suffering from disorders, or looking for increases in mood, focus, attention, etc..these drugs when dosed low and used properly can be miracle drugs in terms of quality of life, though all of them carry SOME RISK of Side Effects or Dependency.
    Thank you for taking the time to respond and actually informing/educating people about he nature of this product and how to use it, along with the potential for abuse that is associated with it.

    With that said, I strongly feel that comparing it to prescribed psych meds is not really 1:1, as I would hope that people are taking these medications under doctor supervision. Of course, many doctors hand drugs out like candy and don't really give a damn about the patients abusing them, but being prescribed a medication, and hopefully having limited supply/access to it and having regular updates and check-ups is vastly different than just seeing something on the internet and buying it. Being better than corrupt, unethical, drug-pushing doctors (not all doctors fall under this umbrella of course) isn't really much to brag about.

    Again, I am happy you are being upfront and honest on this forum, but I can't help but be concerned for people who may find this product online WITHOUT reading about it on a forum, and MA has admitted that the website does not really provide nearly the level of warnings/caution that we have here. I didn't see ANY mention of potential for abuse or addiction on the website, only the tiny mention of not to use more than 4 times per week or if you have a history of addiction, and said it (the lack of this information) is to protect the site/seller/whatever, but don't you think it potentiality puts some consumers at risk? Just because it's more than super-shady research chemical sites say doesn't mean it's good, just that it's better than something really bad. Granted, people should do their research before ingesting anything, but we know that doesn't always happen, and it only takes a few uneducated people abusing this product to have it taken away from everyone, and even have the government decide to get more involved witch regulating supplements and limiting our access to them, even safe ones.

    Just my $0.02 and trying to look out for people. Again, I do think people have the right to use whatever they want, but I do feel that it's only responsible to try to ensure that these people are aware of the nature, both good and bad, of what they are taking.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    Subd, will the price lower? In my opinion that's a bit pricey for a product that doesn't directly effect body composition. On the other hand, it being pricey would stray away anyone that would primarily look to abuse it.
    With the discount it's $60. There are plenty of supplements that don't directly affect body comp that we still pay for so idk. Just my opinion haha
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by BamBam0319 View Post
    With the discount it's $60. There are plenty of supplements that don't directly affect body comp that we still pay for so idk. Just my opinion haha
    Yeah, it's still a potent supplement, and many supplements aren't intended to have any effects on body composition. Hell, a lot of people spend a ton of money on coffee, energy drinks, and/or alcohol or other things to make them just feel good.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to respond and actually informing/educating people about he nature of this product and how to use it, along with the potential for abuse that is associated with it.

    With that said, I strongly feel that comparing it to prescribed psych meds is not really 1:1, as I would hope that people are taking these medications under doctor supervision. Of course, many doctors hand drugs out like candy and don't really give a damn about the patients abusing them, but being prescribed a medication, and hopefully having limited supply/access to it and having regular updates and check-ups is vastly different than just seeing something on the internet and buying it. Being better than corrupt, unethical, drug-pushing doctors (not all doctors fall under this umbrella of course) isn't really much to brag about.

    Again, I am happy you are being upfront and honest on this forum, but I can't help but be concerned for people who may find this product online WITHOUT reading about it on a forum, and MA has admitted that the website does not really provide nearly the level of warnings/caution that we have here. I didn't see ANY mention of potential for abuse or addiction on the website, only the tiny mention of not to use more than 4 times per week or if you have a history of addiction, and said it (the lack of this information) is to protect the site/seller/whatever, but don't you think it potentiality puts some consumers at risk? Just because it's more than super-shady research chemical sites say doesn't mean it's good, just that it's better than something really bad. Granted, people should do their research before ingesting anything, but we know that doesn't always happen, and it only takes a few uneducated people abusing this product to have it taken away from everyone, and even have the government decide to get more involved witch regulating supplements and limiting our access to them, even safe ones.

    Just my $0.02 and trying to look out for people. Again, I do think people have the right to use whatever they want, but I do feel that it's only responsible to try to ensure that these people are aware of the nature, both good and bad, of what they are taking.

    Excellent and I truly appreciate this response.

    And you are spot on.

    I don't disagree. Even when i review this product with potential customers/clients, I ALWAYS go over this product in depth.

    And you are right, the fact is it's not exactly like the Meds comparison. Those meds are often under a Doctors "Supervision" but what I will tell you is this. When i worked in the field, a doctor "prescribed" these meds. Someone with a lower amount of education like myself, was administering, dealing with the day to day side effects, feedback, etc.. We could literally run circles around the doctors prescribing them in terms of patient care, because honestly in that setting, the doctors see a patient for 5 minutes maybe a few times per week (in hospital) and outside of the hospital maybe every few months. I was with my patients 8, 12, 16 hours some days, 4-5 days per week and saw the struggles they dealt with. And I didn't mean to come off as "bragging"..just the opposite, I was just suggesting that I believe I can help share some knowledge to anyone looking to potentially use this product. I do want everyone to weigh the benefit versus risk ratio for themselves before using this. I don't think just anyone should buy it. I would like everyone to research it thoroughly before using.

    And the Psych meds, have so many risks and dangers to be honest. I have seen insane side effects from Psych meds. My only point being, "supervision" is not really what you might believe it is. But that does not distract that Vicaine should be treated as such, and an educated decision MUST be made. Needs to be extensively explained and the risks should be explained.

    This is why I am here on the forum, and any forum MA is on, I do the same.

    Someone can abuse this product and run into issues, thats for sure. Likewise I can buy a bottle of Sleeping Pills over the counter and end up with fatal consequences.

    What I can offer is continual support to you guys with questions/concerns, or looking for additional feedback.

    Thank you for giving me the time to explain the product and being very very cordial about it.

    Thanks to everyone who has subbed and MuscleUpCrohn and BamBam as well for the continual feedback
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    Subd, will the price lower? In my opinion that's a bit pricey for a product that doesn't directly effect body composition. On the other hand, it being pricey would stray away anyone that would primarily look to abuse it.

    You make a good point. It is pricy. The ingredients are not cheap though tbh. What I will agree to, is some days say around 3-4pm when my Vicaine wears off, I really want to take it again just to feel so wide awake and energized. But, the price always deters me, because 4 caps a day would make a bottle only last half a month and I can't afford to spend that much per month.

    So this is a positive, because the directions advise to only use it a few times per week and 2 caps is the suggested dosaging and the best dosaging I have found for individuals new to this product.
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  17. Sub'ed and grabbing a bottle today.
  18. Vicaine - Opioid Stimulant Complex- EXPERT FEEDBACK thread


    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyInman View Post
    Excellent and I truly appreciate this response.

    And you are spot on.

    I don't disagree. Even when i review this product with potential customers/clients, I ALWAYS go over this product in depth.

    And you are right, the fact is it's not exactly like the Meds comparison. Those meds are often under a Doctors "Supervision" but what I will tell you is this. When i worked in the field, a doctor "prescribed" these meds. Someone with a lower amount of education like myself, was administering, dealing with the day to day side effects, feedback, etc.. We could literally run circles around the doctors prescribing them in terms of patient care, because honestly in that setting, the doctors see a patient for 5 minutes maybe a few times per week (in hospital) and outside of the hospital maybe every few months. I was with my patients 8, 12, 16 hours some days, 4-5 days per week and saw the struggles they dealt with. And I didn't mean to come off as "bragging"..just the opposite, I was just suggesting that I believe I can help share some knowledge to anyone looking to potentially use this product. I do want everyone to weigh the benefit versus risk ratio for themselves before using this. I don't think just anyone should buy it. I would like everyone to research it thoroughly before using.

    And the Psych meds, have so many risks and dangers to be honest. I have seen insane side effects from Psych meds. My only point being, "supervision" is not really what you might believe it is. But that does not distract that Vicaine should be treated as such, and an educated decision MUST be made. Needs to be extensively explained and the risks should be explained.

    This is why I am here on the forum, and any forum MA is on, I do the same.

    Someone can abuse this product and run into issues, thats for sure. Likewise I can buy a bottle of Sleeping Pills over the counter and end up with fatal consequences.

    What I can offer is continual support to you guys with questions/concerns, or looking for additional feedback.

    Thank you for giving me the time to explain the product and being very very cordial about it.

    Thanks to everyone who has subbed and MuscleUpCrohn and BamBam as well for the continual feedback
    Thanks for the detailed response man. I've actually never used tianeptine. I've used and enjoyed flmodafinil (alone and with some caffeine and maybe a few other nootropics), and I've used and enjoyed kratom, but it's never really crossed my mind to combine the two of them; maybe I just play it safe haha. I also haven't noted any anxiety or anything from flmoda that I'd need something to counteract, and when I use kratom, I typically don't need hours of major energy and focus, so the two have filled different niches for me.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by drseuss6969 View Post
    Sub'ed and grabbing a bottle today.
    Awesome man.

    Would love your honest feedback in this thread, forum, etc, etc.

    I am confident you will genuinely love this product
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Thanks for the detailed response man. I've actually never used tianeptine. I've used and enjoyed flmodafinil (alone and with some caffeine and maybe a few other nootropics), and I've used and enjoyed kratom, but it's never really crossed my mind to combine the two of them; maybe I just play it safe haha. I also haven't noted any anxiety or anything from flmoda that I'd need something to counteract, and when I use kratom, I typically don't need hours of major energy and focus.
    Cool man and appreciate the response as well.

    BTW for the record I do not like Kratom. Personally I mean. I have tried several strains and it def works but I get nauseated on Kratom. I don't like opiates at all , they make me sleepy.

    This is what is so unique about Vicaine. I can honestly tell you I love this product. I also forgot to mention, I have seen a variety of Individual responses from Vicaine users. However thhe overall 99% feedback you get the intended response,which is a gentle stimulation, an alert wakefulness and excellent mood,with some pain relieving effects. Some guys even use it for a pre-workout.

    But for some users, you will see either a total Stimulant reponse, or a total Opioid (relaxed pain relieving style) response. But this is rare. And in those customers, oddly enough they reported prior abuse of either stimulants or opiates, consistent with how they responded.
    Lightweight Sponsored Bodybuilder/Strongman Competitor- Iron Mag Labs "WES15" for 15% off
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by WesleyInman View Post
    Cool man and appreciate the response as well.

    BTW for the record I do not like Kratom. Personally I mean. I have tried several strains and it def works but I get nauseated on Kratom. I don't like opiates at all , they make me sleepy.

    This is what is so unique about Vicaine. I can honestly tell you I love this product. I also forgot to mention, I have seen a variety of Individual responses from Vicaine users. However thhe overall 99% feedback you get the intended response,which is a gentle stimulation, an alert wakefulness and excellent mood,with some pain relieving effects. Some guys even use it for a pre-workout.

    But for some users, you will see either a total Stimulant reponse, or a total Opioid (relaxed pain relieving style) response. But this is rare. And in those customers, oddly enough they reported prior abuse of either stimulants or opiates, consistent with how they responded.
    I've never gotten nauseated with kratom, but I've never taken crazy-high doses; I've never had the need/desire to do so, and I've always taken it with agmatine. It doesn't exactly taste the best, but oh well. I like to use it once in a while before going out with friends or to some evening/night thing, so pairing it with a wakefulness-promoting drug like a -finil probably wouldn't make sense for me haha. Also, when I use a -finil, it's typically before sitting down for at least most of the day and working, studying, etc, so I don't really need the kratom. Of course, different strokes for different folks though.
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    I've never gotten nauseated with kratom, but I've never taken crazy-high doses; I've never had the need/desire to do so, and I've always taken it with agmatine. It doesn't exactly taste the best, but oh well. I like to use it once in a while before going out with friends or to some evening/night thing, so pairing it with a wakefulness-promoting drug like a -finil probably wouldn't make sense for me haha. Also, when I use a -finil, it's typically before sitting down for at least most of the day and working, studying, etc, so I don't really need the kratom. Of course, different strokes for different folks though.
    Nice!

    Funny how everyone responds so differently

    For being so cool, I will tell u what. I can hook u up with a sample of this product for free if you wanted to try it. ZERO PRESSURE. And you can leave feedback here on the forum, honest feedback. Say whatever you want about it.

    Oh what I was gonna say. I loved Nootropics myself. There used to be a great product called Axon and then Demiurge by Antaeus. I loved both of those. Then of course you got your Noopept and Adrafanil, I used to like those as well. BSL's Razors Edge was ok too. But "for me". this product blows away anything I have tried.

    Oh I have to post the drug testing info as well..will do that shortly> That is one of the biggest concerns I see people asking with this product and I can not only vouch for it that it does not but I have seen customers submit drug testing as well to show it wont fail a standard drug test.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by BamBam0319 View Post
    With the discount it's $60. There are plenty of supplements that don't directly affect body comp that we still pay for so idk. Just my opinion haha
    My statement isn't directed at the fact that is doesn't directly effect body comp, it's that the price is double the average preworkout. I understand value is subjective but I'm sure there are other things you can get for 60$ that would benefit you more. I'm not belittling the product or anyone that gets it, hell I might get it if I have the extra money to spend.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by WesleyInman View Post
    Nice!

    Funny how everyone responds so differently

    For being so cool, I will tell u what. I can hook u up with a sample of this product for free if you wanted to try it. ZERO PRESSURE. And you can leave feedback here on the forum, honest feedback. Say whatever you want about it.

    Oh what I was gonna say. I loved Nootropics myself. There used to be a great product called Axon and then Demiurge by Antaeus. I loved both of those. Then of course you got your Noopept and Adrafanil, I used to like those as well. BSL's Razors Edge was ok too. But "for me". this product blows away anything I have tried.

    Oh I have to post the drug testing info as well..will do that shortly> That is one of the biggest concerns I see people asking with this product and I can not only vouch for it that it does not but I have seen customers submit drug testing as well to show it wont fail a standard drug test.
    Yeah, I'd be down to try it out, and of course I'd give honest feedback on it.

    I've never noticed anything from Adrafinil, although I've only used in once or twice since I didn't notice anything from it, and greatly preferred flmodafinil, although armodafinil would probably be at the top of my list of -finils I'd want to try.

    I'm a big fan of nootropics too. For my "daily" noots, I use your basic caffeine (plus synergistic things like theanine and ornithine HCL), bacopa, a choline source (typically CDP-Choline), an AChE-I (huperzine-A or sage extract), Noopepet (or Aniracetam), and a few other things. I typically don't buy finished nootropic products, as I find many of them to be a bit lacking and/or really overpriced, but I do really like NootropiMax, but this thread really ins't the place to talk about other products I suppose haha, and due to the stimulants in it, I would NOT want to combine it with Vicaine at all.
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